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By stable, they are talking about key wobble, a phenomenom no one cared about but suddenly became a thing when butterfly keys were introduced. That wobble is just a characteristic of scissor/dome keys.

Ok, my guess is that the issues from early on will be fixed with the new MacBook Air, how bad would it be if there were still issues in brand new machines that had a redesign :eek:

I really want to buy one of these new Airs but I’m waiting until reviews appear, even if I order now it won’t arrive until November 14-16 according to Apple website which I just checked so I might as well wait for reviews.
 
Ok, my guess is that the issues from early on will be fixed with the new MacBook Air, how bad would it be if there were still issues in brand new machines that had a redesign :eek:

I really want to buy one of these new Airs but I’m waiting until reviews appear, even if I order now it won’t arrive until November 14-16 according to Apple website which I just checked so I might as well wait for reviews.

Well the Gen-3 on the TB 2018 seem to still have issues going by the thread in the MBP forum, so I doubt these will be any different. It will happen less in theory due to the membrane, but there are people who have experienced various issues.
 
Because by spending $100 more on a nTB MBP, you loose storage. Look at the pricing of both MBP and MBA, Apple gets you on Storage, this is where the increments in price takes place. You could get more CPU on a MBP but with loose out on storage. You can then opt for more storage, but lack in CPU on the MBA. As I've said, it's the needs of an average persons computing needs who don't need a powerful computer. There's a lot of people out there who will use a MBA for basic tasks, because they find doing these tasks on a smartphone is in cumbersome.

not sure if i interpret you correctly, but both the MBA and nTB MBP has a base of 128gb for storage. I would think the main difference is the battery life and the GPU.
 
It seems to me like the keyboard membrane may make it initially more difficult for something to get in there but when something does, it’s guaranteed to cause a problem with absolutely no way to get it out (compressed air or mashing on the key, etc) as it will be caught under the membrane now.

The tolerances are just too tight on the Butterfly Keyboards…
I really hope they are deep into a redesign behind the scenes

I was hoping that these new MacBook Airs would be the first sighting of a next gen keyboard instead of just throwing old problems into a new case.
 
It seems to me like the keyboard membrane may make it initially more difficult for something to get in there but when something does, it’s guaranteed to cause a problem with absolutely no way to get it out (compressed air or mashing on the key, etc) as it will be caught under the membrane now.

I can kinda confirm this. I've had 2016, 2017, and 2018 MacBook Pros. With the 2016 and 2017, the keys would regularly get stuck but then be fine after a quick burst of compressed air (or honestly just blowing on it in many cases).

I've had only one stuck key on my 2018 model, the spacebar, but it took me a LOT of effort to get it working properly again. Spent a good 5-10 minutes working on the key, holding my laptop in all different positions and angles, and then it finally started working again.
 
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I completely don't understand the new Air. It's only $100 less than a nTB MBP. Why the **** would anyone not spend $100 more for the Pro, especially considering how gimped the CPU in the new Air is.

The product line is getting ridiculously fragmented, just like what happened without Steve the first time.
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You would be nuts to get the Air.
You are missing one important thing:

Non-retina MBP is very noisy, the fans keep spinning all the time.
MBA is going to be quiet all the time.

It's a big difference, man.
 
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yeah looks like it has a fan.
 

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Has a fan but should be a lot quieter compared to the nTB MacBook Pro, which I think may they should just discontinue.

I use a MacBook without a fan for music production so its nice to have a silent computer so the mics can't pick up the noise of a fan when recording and its great. Don't really want a laptop with a fan again, but I'll see how the air reviews for noise.
 
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not sure if i interpret you correctly, but both the MBA and nTB MBP has a base of 128gb for storage. I would think the main difference is the battery life and the GPU.
Sorry, I was typing pretty quickly and had no time to proof read.

It's a no brainer to go base nTB MBP at an extra $100 versus new base MBA.

But as you go up in specs, the differentiating factor is storage and CPU.

What I noticed is, if I purchase the base MBA at $1199, I can add $100 more and get the nTB MBP for $1299. Well, here I am looking at the next tier, hypothetically, why not consider the $1399 MBA dual core 256GB model for $100 more? Now, if I'm going to spend $1399, for $100 more I can get the nTB MBP model at $1499 and get 2.3Ghz CPU.

See where I'm going with this. This is the target consumer Apple is
going for in the MBA. I happen to be that consumer who will consider that extra $100 more. Rather than spending $1199, I'm out of pocket $1499 - $300 more than what I intended to spend.
 
Sorry, I was typing pretty quickly and had no time to proof read.

It's a no brainer to go base nTB MBP at an extra $100 versus new base MBA.

But as you go up in specs, the differentiating factor is storage and CPU.

What I noticed is, if I purchase the base MBA at $1199, I can add $100 more and get the nTB MBP for $1299. Well, here I am looking at the next tier, hypothetically, why not consider the $1399 MBA dual core 256GB model for $100 more? Now, if I'm going to spend $1399, for $100 more I can get the nTB MBP model at $1499 and get 2.3Ghz CPU.

See where I'm going with this. This is the target consumer Apple is
going for in the MBA. I happen to be that consumer who will consider that extra $100 more. Rather than spending $1199, I'm out of pocket $1499 - $300 more than what I intended to spend.

Also those that buy the Air do so for the battery life as well, the new Air has 12 hours web and 13 hours video playback, that might not seem like a lot but an extra 2-3 hours is actually more than some people may think, for someone like me it means an extra 2 hours writing session! An extra 2-3 hours without having to worry about charging.

We don’t have benchmarks yet but I would guess that this new MacBook Air will be better than the current 12” MacBook, it has a fan so I’m also guessing that means it can handle sustained loads for longer periods (ie the turbo boost can last longer).
 
You are missing one important thing:

Non-retina MBP is very noisy, the fans keep spinning all the time.
MBA is going to be quiet all the time.

It's a big difference, man.

Non retina MBP? Did you mean non-touchbar MBP? I had a 2017 nTB prior to my current 15" and I disagree that it was noisy. Not sure where you're getting that from. It certainly wasn't any noisier than the 2013 MBA I had before it.
[doublepost=1541099936][/doublepost]
Because by spending $100 more on a nTB MBP, you loose storage. Look at the pricing of both MBP and MBA, Apple gets you on Storage, this is where the increments in price takes place. You could get more CPU on a MBP but with loose out on storage. You can then opt for more storage, but lack in CPU on the MBA. As I've said, it's the needs of an average persons computing needs who don't need a powerful computer. There's a lot of people out there who will use a MBA for basic tasks, because they find doing these tasks on a smartphone is in cumbersome.

Nope, you do not lose storage. It's $100 delta regardless.

128 GB MBA - $1200
128 GB MBP - $1300

256 GB MBA - $1400
256 GB MBP - $1500
 
The new 2018 MacBook Air is essentially nothing more than a 13" MacBook.

Sadly, as dated as it is, the old MacBook Air is the last decent notebook that Apple offers, and that only as a legacy likely soon gone. It offers the variety of ports one still often needs, a good keyboard, as well as a practical amount of processing power.

Conversely, the 2018 MacBook Air offers none of this. Its only advantage over the previous model is principally a decent screen that the MacBook Air should have long since had. Other than that only the inclusion of USB-C ports (which should have been added to the existing ports) and better graphics.

The loyal Macintosh customer is left with nothing but bad choices. Apple could have truly upgraded the MacBook Air in retaining its many advantages while adding the better screen, etc., as well as in being truly upgradeable and repairable—but this is not Apple's way under Tim Cook. If so, it would have shown the rest of the notebook line for what they are and decimated them in sales.

While many MacBook Air loyalists have longed for a better screen, this option now at the expense of computing power, for one thing. Your only option with the 2018 MacBook Air are 1.6 GHz dual-core i5 processors, versus the 2.2 GHz dual-core i7 processors available in the old MacBook Air for $50 less total cost.

Consider as well that the least expensive MacBook Pro offers 2.3 GHz dual-core 15 processors for only $100 more in total cost (in each case figured with 256GB in storage, as a practical base minimum) than the 2018 MacBook Air. If, as the 2018 MacBook Air, neither is provided with the customary long and quite useful power cord the old MacBook Air comes with.

In short, Apple is doubling down on its path charted since the advent of Tim Cook in offering less for more. While there has always been an Apple tax, this once reflected in solid desirable products worth the premium. This is no longer the case. Apple has devolved into fashion pricing for Macintosh products, hardware and software, at best questionable.

While never perfect, Steve Jobs truly cared about the customer experience and what computers could best do in improving people's life's. Tim Cook does not appear to share such a sentiment, yet there seems no limit to his avarice. Given the phenomenal growth and prosperity of Apple under his reign it would be a hard decision for Apple's board to consider replacing Mr. Cook. But they should. Now.

For as the history of business is written time and again, all that goes up will come down. There are precious few companies extant which have manged to survive even a century. Fickle fanboys and Apple's board may think otherwise but the many loyal Apple customers having been left waiting all too long, or since decamped to other platforms, understand that Emperor Cook is parading without a shred of, at basis, real clothing.
 
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Please do tell. How could they add a retina screen to the MBA and not either :-
a) reduce the CPU power draw or
b) add more battery capacity by making it heavier and thicker or
c) killing battery life.

There’s no such thing in design as a free lunch. You can’t just draw more power for the screen from some imaginary place.

Your complaints sound like typical entitlement because it ignores actual reality. “I want a higher power screen and a more powerful chip and a bit lighter and a bit smaller and with more ports. I want this. I want that. Where’s my USB-a. Where’s Steve.”

I’ve got a MacBook and it’s kicks the ass of the old Air for what my needs are. Mobility. A 900 gram Mac has improved my life more than any computer your beloved Steve made.

People have been calling out for a 13” MacBook now it’s here. The y class chips are great for everyday computing.

If the $100 more nTB MBP suits you better. Buy it. If they cable isn’t long enough, it’s standard usbC at each end rather than a proprietary format, so you can buy one as long as you need.

Despite this. The entitled will continue to complain the world owes them everything they ever wanted.


The new 2018 MacBook Air is essentially nothing more than a 13" MacBook.

Sadly, as dated as it is, the old MacBook Air is the last decent notebook that Apple offers, and that only as a legacy likely soon gone. It offers the variety of ports one still often needs, a good keyboard, as well as a practical amount of processing power.

Conversely, the 2018 MacBook Air offers none of this. Its only advantage over the previous model is principally a decent screen that the MacBook Air should have long since had. Other than that only the inclusion of USB-C ports (which should have been added to the existing ports) and better graphics.

The loyal Macintosh customer is left with nothing but bad choices. Apple could have truly upgraded the MacBook Air in retaining its many advantages while adding the better screen, etc., as well as in being truly upgradeable and repairable—but this is not Apple's way under Tim Cook. If so, it would have shown the rest of the notebook line for what they are and decimated them in sales.

While many MacBook Air loyalists have longed for a better screen, this option now at the expense of computing power, for one thing. Your only option with the 2018 MacBook Air are 1.6 GHz dual-core i5 processors, versus the 2.2 GHz dual-core i7 processors available in the old MacBook Air for $50 less total cost.

Consider as well that the least expensive MacBook Pro offers 2.3 GHz dual-core 15 processors for only $100 more in total cost (in each case figured with 256GB in storage, as a practical base minimum) than the 2018 MacBook Air. If, as the 2018 MacBook Air, neither is provided with the customary long and quite useful power cord the old MacBook Air comes with.

In short, Apple is doubling down on its path charted since the advent of Tim Cook in offering less for more. While there has always been an Apple tax, this once reflected in solid desirable products worth the premium. This is no longer the case. Apple has devolved into fashion pricing for Macintosh products, hardware and software, at best questionable.

While never perfect, Steve Jobs truly cared about the customer experience and what computers could best do in improving people's life's. Tim Cook does not appear to share such a sentiment, yet there seems no limit to his avarice. Given the phenomenal growth and prosperity of Apple under his reign it would be a hard decision for Apple's board to consider replacing Mr. Cook. But they should. Now.

For as the history of business is written time and again, all that goes up will come down. There are precious few companies extant which have manged to survive even a century. Fickle fanboys and Apple's board may think otherwise but the many loyal Apple customers having been left waiting all too long, or since decamped to other platforms, understand that Emperor Cook is parading without a shred of, at basis, real clothing.
[doublepost=1541107110][/doublepost]That’s your opinion. My opinion is that the weight gain on the nTB isn’t worth the additional weight and bulk.

If I was going to go for the extra bulk I’d get the Quad Core i7 so at least the extra weight came with a significant power boost that made Logic a viable option.

The footprint is essentially identical and you really won't feel that .25 lbs difference very much. It's foolish to pass on the nTB for the new Air.
 
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That’s your opinion. My opinion is that the weight gain on the nTB isn’t worth the additional weight and bulk.

If I was going to go for the extra bulk I’d get the Quad Core i7 so at least the extra weight came with a significant power boost that made Logic a viable option.
It's not an opinion. It will be nearly impossible to feel the weight difference between these two machines. There is no bulk. They are virtually identical in size. You pick whatever you want mate but size and weight is not a reason to pick one over the other.
 
I completely don't understand the new Air. It's only $100 less than a nTB MBP. Why the **** would anyone not spend $100 more for the Pro, especially considering how gimped the CPU in the new Air is.

The product line is getting ridiculously fragmented, just like what happened without Steve the first time.
[doublepost=1541063689][/doublepost]
You would be nuts to get the Air.

The fragmented product line (too many products) nearly killed Apple along with bad CEOs.
 
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Your opinion is that people can’t tell the difference between things with a different weight. OK then.

It's not an opinion. It will be nearly impossible to feel the weight difference between these two machines. There is no bulk. They are virtually identical in size. You pick whatever you want mate but size and weight is not a reason to pick one over the other.
 
Your opinion is that people can’t tell the difference between things with a different weight. OK then.
Mate, do you realize how light .25 lbs is? That's 4 ounces. You put a MBA or MBP in your bag and walk around with it and you won't notice the difference between the two. That's a fact. Not an opinion. You want to continue to rail on this point, go for it. But in reality the difference of weight between these two machines is absolutely negligible and absolutely should not be a factor when weighing a purchase.
 
What I noticed is, if I purchase the base MBA at $1199, I can add $100 more and get the nTB MBP for $1299. Well, here I am looking at the next tier, hypothetically, why not consider the $1399 MBA dual core 256GB model for $100 more? Now, if I'm going to spend $1399, for $100 more I can get the nTB MBP model at $1499 and get 2.3Ghz CPU.

See where I'm going with this. This is the target consumer Apple is
going for in the MBA. I happen to be that consumer who will consider that extra $100 more. Rather than spending $1199, I'm out of pocket $1499 - $300 more than what I intended to spend.

yup so for $100 more you need a slightly better processor and gpu, but i dont think that this is the target consumer segment. the MBA is plenty for people who mainly uses the laptop for browsing, media and some ms office. hence this group of people may value portability (although very small difference), battery life, and the presumably better keyboard. i dont deny there will be people who prefer the slightly more powerful nTB MBP.
 
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I dunno. I can feel the difference between a 4 ounce steak and an 8 ounce one. To me there’s a difference.

If there isn’t to you just get the MBP. You have a choice.
 
I dunno. I can feel the difference between a 4 ounce steak and an 8 ounce one. To me there’s a difference.

If there isn’t to you just get the MBP. You have a choice.

yeah 4 vs 8 ounce is 100% increase. 2.75 vs 3.02 pound is 10% increase. it is much easier to feel 100% than 10% difference.
 
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