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I hope that people who think that next years rMBP hardware will fix the "lag"...

Xerotech said:
If you carefully stare at the screen whilst scrolling, there is a slight lag. You aren't able to read texts while scrolling like other macs. :p
It's a super minor issue people blow out of proportion.
Click to expand...

I just read this whole thread while scrolling. I'm not seeing lag. rMBP + ML + Safari.
 
ixodes said:
All one has to do, is pay attention to Apple's normal practices. The second year after a major upgrade or redesign is the one to have.

Unless one has to impress their friends, there's no reason to buy the first year. You'll regret it when the next rev comes out.

Proof? A recent example is the newly redesigned 2010 MBA vs the 2011 MBA. The 2011 is far better, by a very wide margin.
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This is only true for people who buy their computers as hood ornaments, not for those of us who need our computers to do work that pays us money. Those who fall into the latter group buy when the need arises, not based on vanity.
 
AZREOSpecialist said:
This is only true for people who buy their computers as hood ornaments, not for those of us who need our computers to do work that pays us money. Those who fall into the latter group buy when the need arises, not based on vanity.
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Somehow you seem to have misunderstood the post.

I've used Macs in my resource intense R&D, scientific work for years. In a position to buy anything I want, whenever I want, I was sharing first hand experience in an effort to help another forum member in the decision making process.

I fully realize that many can only afford one Mac, especially at the very high price point of the MBPr. For these buyers, getting exactly the right model is crucial, especially since they are usually planning to rely on it for several years.

I do believe had you understood the context of the post you criticized, you might have a different opinion.
 
Menge said:
Plain Safari 6.0 scrolling through webpages with images (retina resolution ones) in them.


You'd flick two fingers in Safari on a site with images, for instance, and it do the scrolling in half second chunks: FRAME - 0.5s - FRAME - 0.5s - Scroll done. Mission Control is also laggy. If I were to say, the CPU is fast, but for some reason the redraw rate of the screen feels WORSE than my 2008 Aluminum MacBook connected to a HD screen.

But... DAT SCREEN!!!
Click to expand...

I can only speculate that your model is defective. I could only see some slight lag (but surely not 0.5 sec intervals!) on some heavy websites like The Verge, but than, my 2011 iMac and 2009 MBP have the same kind of lag with these sites.

----------
ixodes said:
All one has to do, is pay attention to Apple's normal practices. The second year after a major upgrade or redesign is the one to have.

Unless one has to impress their friends, there's no reason to buy the first year. You'll regret it when the next rev comes out.

Proof? A recent example is the newly redesigned 2010 MBA vs the 2011 MBA. The 2011 is far better, by a very wide margin.
Click to expand...

To be entirely correct, this has nothing to do with Apple but with Intel. Apple has no (or at least, no substantial) influence over Intel's CPU roadmaps. If you put it that way, every ultraportable is much better in 2011, because they utilise the improved Intel CPUs.
 
How hard is it for people to get it through their heads that this is a SOFTWARE issue.

Load up Windows 7, or even 8 for that matter, and it runs beautifully.
 
This is a software issue with the scaling and scrolling algorithm within Safari. At a resolution of 2880*1800 I see less lag than on the 1440*800 "Best for Retina" resolution while still on integrated graphics. Albeit, at 2880*1800 I still get lag on awfully coded sites like facebook and such, though its worse at 1440*800. For facebook users, hiding the sidebar to the right GREATLY decreases lag.

And I only get lag within Safari, I never have lag for anything to do with UI, mission control, switching spaces and such. So yes, the coming processors would run the scaling algorithm quicker therefore seemingly improving the lag, however I think Apple might implement a more efficient algorithm before than...
 
I immediately noticed the choppiness on a demo unit at BB. Ironically, the site I was scrolling up and down was the Apple startpage. Even though the entire page only filled two screens, the rMBP stuttered scrolling up and down, over and over again. Here is the link: (BTW - the ads have changed since I was at BB so this may act differently today).

http://www.apple.com/startpage/
 
If the increase follows the trend of disappointing IGP updates, then it'll only be 20-30% better than the HD 4000 currently in the rMBP. Not really enough to be a game changer.
 
Last edited:
Lag vs No Lag Videos

Everyone,

I found a video on YouTube showing the lag I think people are discussing. This is on a 2.3 GHz version of the rMBP w/ 8 GB RAM:

http://youtu.be/uixeNzzJBXQ

I believe this person was using a screen recording program, so I'm not sure how much overhead that adds and whether that could skew the results of what you are seeing on screen.

I took an actual video recording of my screen using a DSLR, to eliminate any processing overhead that a screen recording application may add. I scrolled through George Takei's Facebook timeline, which has a lot of images and comments, as well as theVerge.com which showed the choppiest scrolling in the above video.

I quickly shot off this video using the automatic settings, I wasn't going for a technically perfect video, so please forgive those shortcomings. However, I think you will see when comparing both of these, I am experiencing nothing even remotely similar to what is shown in the first video.

http://youtu.be/p5OLbKCi3ok

The only discernible differences between my RMBP and the one in the first lag video is that mine is the faster 2.6 model with double the RAM (16 GB vs 8 GB). Both machines are on 10.8 Mountain Lion using Safari 6. The other thing I did differently was that I pre-loaded the web pages to eliminate any lag associated with page or image load time. This is not something that was done in the first video, and the lag seen in that video may have something to do with the fact that the pages and images were also loading while the pages were scrolled. Pure conjecture on my part.

So as you can see, I'm not making this stuff up. I just don't see the lag that others are seeing and experiencing.
 
beamer8912 said:
If the increase follows the trend of disappointing IGP updates, then it'll only be 20-30% better than the HD 4000 currently in the rMBP.
Click to expand...

Haswell is a new architecture so all bets are off. I'd take 30% better than HD 4000 in hardware along with better optimization through drivers.
 
nuckinfutz said:
Haswell is a new architecture so all bets are off. I'd take 30% better than HD 4000 in hardware along with better optimization through drivers.
Click to expand...

So new architecture = second coming of jesus? Doubtful.

Also this. They claim its not really new architecture.They also suggest that it will be a 2.5(+) times upgrade over ivy bridge. However, they further claimed Ivy was a 2x improvement over Sandy Bridge.

If in fact those ratios hold true, what we'll actually see is a ~37% increase. Not exactly the second coming of Jesus.

One thing still confuses me. Many rMBP users have reported seeing lag even when forcing use of the 650m dedicated chip. If there's lag with the dedicated chip, what hope is there for an IGP?
 
beamer8912 said:
So new architecture = second coming of jesus? Doubtful.

Also this. They claim its not really new architecture.They also suggest that it will be a 2.5(+) times upgrade over ivy bridge. However, they further claimed Ivy was a 2x improvement over Sandy Bridge.

If in fact those ratios hold true, what we'll actually see is a ~37% increase. Not exactly the second coming of Jesus.

One thing still confuses me. Many rMBP users have reported seeing lag even when forcing use of the 650m dedicated chip. If there's lag with the dedicated chip, what hope is there for an IGP?
Click to expand...

In one of my replies just previous to yours, I posted a link to a video of my RMBP scrolling an image-heavy Facebook timeline as well as theVerge.com - the site many have stated causes severe lag issues. I included two links - one from someone else browsing those two web sites showing severe lag and one of my RMBP showing no lag in the same situations.

I have been called names, told that I am unintelligent, and accused of lying and being a "troll" simply because I cannot reproduce the issues people are describing. I've now posted a video to show this. If some people are experiencing lag, there must be a strange variable in play that does not affect all machines. Beyond that, I have no idea.
 
AZREOSpecialist said:
In one of my replies just previous to yours, I posted a link to a video of my RMBP scrolling an image-heavy Facebook timeline as well as theVerge.com - the site many have stated causes severe lag issues. I included two links - one from someone else browsing those two web sites showing severe lag and one of my RMBP showing no lag in the same situations.

I have been called names, told that I am unintelligent, and accused of lying and being a "troll" simply because I cannot reproduce the issues people are describing. I've now posted a video to show this. If some people are experiencing lag, there must be a strange variable in play that does not affect all machines. Beyond that, I have no idea.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt you. In fact, I've tried out the rMBP at the Apple Store multiple times and have watched many youtube videos like yours "demonstrating" the lag. I guess I just don't see.

In another "lag" thread the OP posted his youtube video showing the lag, and almost half the of the initial responses we're like "Where does the lag start? I don't see it."

I'm just saying, if whatever lag exists (not saying there is any) is remedied by Haswell, then it should be remedied by forcing the 650m. Otherwise, Haswell isn't gonna change ****.
 
I barely see any lag, if at all !!! If I pinch zoom the text on Safari, then yes there is a stutter. Otherwise, it's smooth as butter, most of the time!!

Maybe I should make a video too!

Specs in sig.
 
I seriously don't notice this lag as much as most people do. If you continue to just use your system you will not see it. The words "lag" have not come out of my mouth in the past month of using the rMBP.

and Mountain Lion has beed a nice upgrade for rMBP. I don't see any slow down. I'm loving it.
 
AZREOSpecialist said:
Everyone,

I found a video on YouTube showing the lag I think people are discussing. This is on a 2.3 GHz version of the rMBP w/ 8 GB RAM:

http://youtu.be/uixeNzzJBXQ

I believe this person was using a screen recording program, so I'm not sure how much overhead that adds and whether that could skew the results of what you are seeing on screen.

I took an actual video recording of my screen using a DSLR, to eliminate any processing overhead that a screen recording application may add. I scrolled through George Takei's Facebook timeline, which has a lot of images and comments, as well as theVerge.com which showed the choppiest scrolling in the above video.

I quickly shot off this video using the automatic settings, I wasn't going for a technically perfect video, so please forgive those shortcomings. However, I think you will see when comparing both of these, I am experiencing nothing even remotely similar to what is shown in the first video.

http://youtu.be/p5OLbKCi3ok

The only discernible differences between my RMBP and the one in the first lag video is that mine is the faster 2.6 model with double the RAM (16 GB vs 8 GB). Both machines are on 10.8 Mountain Lion using Safari 6. The other thing I did differently was that I pre-loaded the web pages to eliminate any lag associated with page or image load time. This is not something that was done in the first video, and the lag seen in that video may have something to do with the fact that the pages and images were also loading while the pages were scrolled. Pure conjecture on my part.

So as you can see, I'm not making this stuff up. I just don't see the lag that others are seeing and experiencing.
Click to expand...


I'm generally a pro rMBP person - but there is a slight framerate drop even in your example. IMO it's no reason to rule out the entire machine though.
 
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