I need a brick

[bmac4]

Anecdotal experiences are basically just that. And if someone doesn't have a power adapter and a cable why would they buy something other than what would fit the new cable that is included?

How many people do you think don’t have an iPhone charger at all that bought the iPhone 12 series? It can’t be very many or we would hear a much larger group of people complaining. It’s just a few on an Apple forum and Reddit.

If your a smart consumer, you know what’s in the box. I know what i am buying before I make $1000 plus purchase. Then you make a wise buying decision, and price out what it would cost you to make the most of it. If you don’t have any iPhone cables or bricks at all (I can’t imagine that group of people is very big at all), then you price out what saves you the most money. Wise buyers know what they need. Again the number of people that will need new cables and bricks is so small.

 

[bmac4]

For years and years everyone has cried about the 5watt charger. Apple adding a fast charger was seen as a big upgrade. You're the only person happy with no charger and a slow charger from 1901. If you just feel a need to defend apple for being cheap and almost a Trillion dollar company, then just say that.

The only person? Hahaha I am far from the only person. I don’t think Apple owes anyone a fast charger. I don’t want something in the box that is going to degrade my battery faster. Especially if I want to keep the phone for several years.

If you think i am defending Apple, go up to my last reply. I said I was not happy with Apple making the max phone the better camera and trying to up sale people. The topic of fast charging and power bricks is just something that is no big deal and at most a $20 cost to the consumer. It only effects a very small group of people.

 

[C. Robert]

The only person? Hahaha I am far from the only person. I don’t think Apple owes anyone a fast charger. I don’t want something in the box that is going to degrade my battery faster. Especially if I want to keep the phone for several years.

If you think i am defending Apple, go up to my last reply. I said I was not happy with Apple making the max phone the better camera and trying to up sale people. The topic of fast charging and power bricks is just something that is no big deal and at most a $20 cost to the consumer. It only effects a very small group of people.

$20 is a lot for something that should be free. Its a cost apple isn't willing to take because they know people are going to choose 128gb phones over the bigger ones. All they did was have a conversation about the revenue losses they would have releasing a 128GB pro and 12's with similar specs. They decided that they would make that money back in accessories. Thats why they removed it and have so many on release date.

 

[bmac4]

$20 is a lot for something that should be free. Its a cost apple isn't willing to take because they know people are going to choose 128gb phones over the bigger ones. All they did was have a conversation about the revenue losses they would have releasing a 128GB pro and 12's with similar specs. They decided that they would make that money back in accessories. Thats why they removed it and have so many on release date.

So explain to me how this is any different than when they released the 9.7 and 12.9 iPad pros with 10w chargers that took forever to charge (almost not worth having as using the iPad while it charged it would increase to charge), but sold the 30w separate that was pretty much what you needed to charge the iPad. No one was up in arms then.

 

[I7guy]

And yet Apple themselves handled it differently when they removed the headphone jack.

How did Apple handle the situation whereby they removed the optical drive from the Macs? That is more analogous a situation to the removal of the brick, than the headphone jack whereby one hardware component was substituted for another.

 

[bmac4]

How did Apple handle the situation whereby they removed the optical drive from the Macs? That is more analogous a situation to the removal of the brick, than the headphone jack whereby one hardware component was substituted for another.

There is so much bigger things Apple has done in the past that would warrant a complaint than leaving out the the charging brick. I really don’t get this at all. I for one am more mad about the fragmentation in pro models from regular pro to max. That seems way more egregious than a charging brick. A camera means a whole heck of a lot more.

 

[C DM]

It only effects a very small group of people.

That's an assumption, but as assumptions go it might not necessarily be the case. And even if percentage-wise it might be a small group, given that millions of people buy iPhone it would still be a group with quite a lot of people.

Ultimately it seems that there's agreement that it's not really something that's good for the consumers -- for the portion that isn't affected by it it's not bad but isn't good either, it's just nothing essentially, and for the portion that is affected by it it's certainly not good and more on the bad side.

The topic of fast charging and power bricks is just something that is no big deal and at most a $20 cost

Well, then it sounds a trillion dollar company like Apple that has had the practice of including that component with their devices for years and years could have included it, especially during a time when they changed the cable. It's certainly wouldn't be even close to a big deal for them after all.

 

[C DM]

How did Apple handle the situation whereby they removed the optical drive from the Macs? That is more analogous a situation to the removal of the brick, than the headphone jack whereby one hardware component was substituted for another.

One component wasn't really substituted for another when the headphone jack was removed, it was just gone. Those with regular headphones couldn't use those without an adapter, which was included (on top of another pair of headphones that Apple included as well).

 

[C DM]

There is so much bigger things Apple has done in the past that would warrant a complaint than leaving out the the charging brick

And plenty of those have gotten plenty of complaints and discussions. Just because there are other things doesn't meant that something else isn't part of it and isn't worth if someone discussing it.

Sure, different things affect people differently and some don't really get affected or care, but that doesn't really mean much one way or another for those who are. Seems like that's really all that's coming down to.

 

[bmac4]

That's an assumption, but as assumptions go it might not necessarily be the case. And even if percentage-wise it might be a small group, given that millions of people buy iPhone it would still be a group with quite a lot of people.

Ultimately it seems that there's agreement that it's not really something that's good for the consumers -- for the portion that isn't affected by it it's not bad but isn't good either, it's just nothing essentially, and for the portion that is affected by it it's certainly not good and more on the bad side.
Well, then it sounds a trillion dollar company like Apple that has had the practice of including that component with their devices for years and years could have included it, especially during a time when they changed the cable. It's certainly wouldn't be even close to a big deal for them after all.

So the E waste isn’t even a discussion anymore? All this is, is just whether or not isn’t inconvenient for a small group or people or not? The benefit to waste is less important than some people being upset about not having a brick in the box?

Apple could have added the brick, it wouldn’t have cost them much at all. They stated they would like to be net zero in e waste by 2023. This would be step in that direction for them. Are you saying they are lying?

 

[I7guy]

One component wasn't really substituted for another when the headphone jack was removed, it was just gone. Those with regular headphones couldn't use those without an adapter, which was included (on top of another pair of headphones that Apple included as well).

One could use their wired headphone with the iphone 7, albeit using either: 1) the lightning earpods that came with the iphone 7, or the trs to lightning adapter. But those same headphones were and are still usable. With the removal of the cd, one had to buy another usb cd-rom unit, there was no substitute to play an optical disc.

 

[bmac4]

And plenty of those have gotten plenty of complaints and discussions. Just because there are other things doesn't meant that something else isn't part of it and isn't worth if someone discussing it.

Sure, different things affect people differently and some don't really get affected or care, but that doesn't really mean much one way or another for those who are. Seems like that's really all that's coming down to.

Not at all. A $20 brick is a lot less important than a $100 plus camera upgrade.

 

[I7guy]

That's an assumption, but as assumptions go it might not necessarily be the case. And even if percentage-wise it might be a small group, given that millions of people buy iPhone it would still be a group with quite a lot of people.

Ultimately it seems that there's agreement that it's not really something that's good for the consumers -- for the portion that isn't affected by it it's not bad but isn't good either, it's just nothing essentially, and for the portion that is affected by it it's certainly not good and more on the bad side.
Well, then it sounds a trillion dollar company like Apple that has had the practice of including that component with their devices for years and years could have included it, especially during a time when they changed the cable. It's certainly wouldn't be even close to a big deal for them after all.

Basically what is good for the environment, is good for the human population overall (and that includes consumers who don't like the move), even if some are being disenfranchised or believe they are entitled to a charger. A trillion dollar company or not, should not just include a charger because they can. Change is tough for everybody, but that is not to say take this to extreme and for example, don't even provide packaging and hope there is no breakage en route.

Those that are really confused by this, and have no knowledge of USB and don't have any USB accessories, and have never owned an Apple product, and maybe didn't buy a homepod mini and have the 20 watt, will have to deal with it...or get an Android, if they can find a model with everything in the box.

 

[C DM]

But those same headphones were and are still usable.

Only with the adapter which Apple included in that case. There's the difference.

 

[C DM]

So the E waste isn’t even a discussion anymore? All this is, is just whether or not isn’t inconvenient for a small group or people or not? The benefit to waste is less important than some people being upset about not having a brick in the box?

Apple could have added the brick, it wouldn’t have cost them much at all. They stated they would like to be net zero in e waste by 2023. This would be step in that direction for them. Are you saying they are lying?

I'm saying it's great Apple decided to help the environment and all that, but it's a simple decision for them when they simply pass on the burden of that decision to the consumer -- Apple not only saves costs but also gets some extra profit from additional sales of power adapters while consumers no longer get what was part of their purchase before and some would need to spend more money getting something they might now need.

 

[I7guy]

Only with the adapter which Apple included in that case. There's the difference.

Correct. And with the removal of the optical drive, Apple is showing it has the capacity to move things in a different direction, whether one thinks of it as better or not, and potentially leave some looking for a solution to a problem they didn't have previously. However, with the headphone jack the previously (potentially expensively) purchased headset is not rendered useless as with the removal of the optical drives, which render the physical media useless, without something else being done.

 

[bmac4]

I'm saying it's great Apple decided to help the environment and all that, but it's a simple decision for them when they simply pass on the burden of that decision to the consumer -- Apple not only saves costs but also gets some extra profit from additional sales of power adapters while consumers no longer get what was part of their purchase before and some would need to spend more money getting something they might now need.

If the consumer doesn’t want to that burden, then they need to look else where for a device. Apple shouldn’t make E waste decisions based on if a small part of their consumer base will be upset. If they feel they need this to get to net zero, they should not worry about the small percentage that will be upset. It doesn’t matter what they do, some portion of the buyers will be upset.

 

[I7guy]

I'm saying it's great Apple decided to help the environment and all that, but it's a simple decision for them when they simply pass on the burden of that decision to the consumer --

The consumer always pays, not only with this example, but other real life examples as well. Saying this as a fact is true, but then this has been true since the dawn of mankind, so this should be no surprise to anyone.

Apple not only saves costs but also gets some extra profit from additional sales of power adapters

Well yes no, additional profit in the sense consumers may buy something or not, but it may be balanced out by prices for the iphone 12. Of course the "extra profit" is an opinion, which will never be proved.

while consumers no longer get what was part of their purchase before and some would need to spend more money getting something they might now need.

True...as I said above. Just because something is true doesn't make it bad in general, even if an individual case as discussed on this and other forums, might be a tempest in a teapot.

 

[C DM]

Correct. And with the removal of the optical drive, Apple is showing it has the capacity to move things in a different direction, whether one thinks of it as better or not, and potentially leave some looking for a solution to a problem they didn't have previously. However, with the headphone jack the previously (potentially expensively) purchased headset is not rendered useless as with the removal of the optical drives, which render the physical media useless, without something else being done.

Moving things in a different direction is easy when in the process you get to not only save money but even make some additional money on top of it (while the burden of it is mostly shifted onto someone else. Seems like Apple has been capable to consider the consumer a bit more at times in the past -- although maybe that was still simply based on perception and a PR type of approach on their side and not much more.

 

[C DM]

If the consumer doesn’t want to that burden, then they need to look else where for a device.

That can basically be said about pretty much any issue that is brought up about practically anything anywhere. It's basically something that's neither here nor there.

 

[bmac4]

That can basically be said about pretty much any issue that is brought up about practically anything anywhere. It's basically something that's neither here nor there.

Yes, but you brought up Apple not taking the burden. Apples solution to E waste was to not provide the brick. In turn that puts the burden on the customer whether they choose to buy that product and take on Apple’s stance to reduce e waste, or to be upset and move on to another product. Buying then coming on a forum and complaining about it, doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s a decision of the consumer they can’t complain when they choose to buy that product with information from Apple being given before purchase.

 

[C DM]

Yes, but you brought up Apple not taking the burden. Apples solution to E waste was to not provide the brick. In turn that puts the burden on the customer whether they choose to buy that product and take on Apple’s stance to reduce e waste, or to be upset and move on to another product. Buying then coming on a forum and complaining about it, doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s a decision of the consumer they can’t complain when they choose to buy that product with information from Apple being given before purchase.

Consumers can certainly have issues with something that they purchase even if they purchase it because it can still fit their needs better than something else (yet still be worse than what it was like before or still have some issues). Nothing really strange or new when it comes to that. Perhaps some people might not care for it, and that's fine and their take on it, but that doesn't change that reality.

 

[bmac4]

Consumers can certainly have issues with something that they purchase even if they purchase it because it can still fit their needs better than something else (yet still be worse than what it was like before or still have some issues). Nothing really strange or new when it comes to that. Perhaps some people might not care for it, and that's fine and their take on it, but that doesn't change that reality.

They sure can, but they shouldn’t expect anyone to care. Oh the Apple website it says it only comes with a USB-C cable no charging brick. That is on the consumer to read what they are spending $800 plus on. Is the consumer doesn’t know what a USB-C is, they need to do research and find out. It’s the consumers job to do homework, not the product maker. That said everyone knew ahead of time or at least was given the knowledge before hand about the charging. What they choose to do with that knowledge is on them. Coming on here complaining about, what does that do?

As for how you feel about Apple making the choice, making a choice to work towards net zero e waste is a positive. They informed the customer, and made a choice, respect that and move on. It’s easy.

 

[C DM]

They sure can, but they shouldn’t expect anyone to care.

And that's essentially a big part of what places like online forums are about, and what's happening with this (and a lot of other things). There are certainly plenty of people that don't care about all kinds of things, but that doesn't mean much in terms of others who do care and would like to voice that.

 

[boltjames]

I'm saying it's great Apple decided to help the environment and all that, but it's a simple decision for them when they simply pass on the burden of that decision to the consumer -- Apple not only saves costs but also gets some extra profit from additional sales of power adapters while consumers no longer get what was part of their purchase before and some would need to spend more money getting something they might now need.

Big picture, no one buying an iPhone 12 needs a new phone. They're all frivolous luxury purchases by people wanting the latest and greatest thing, the average person spending $1,000 for the privilege of a slightly better camera or slightly better speed.

Point being, $20 means nothing to these people, so it doesn't matter if the power adapter is included or not.