I need a brick

[C DM]

Big picture, no one buying an iPhone 12 needs a new phone. They're all frivolous luxury purchases by people wanting the latest and greatest thing, the average person spending $1,000 for the privilege of a slightly better camera or slightly better speed.

Point being, $20 means nothing to these people, so it doesn't matter if the power adapter is included or not.

By that type of logic the pennies that would be involved in including the power adapters are of even less impact to Apple so they might as well be doing what they have always been doing based on that.

And, just to use the always appreciated car analogy (not comparison, but analogy) in relation to that type of logic: brand new latest BMW models are similar type of frivolous luxuries, and for people that get them purchasing a $100 gas door isn't of much consequence so it wouldn't matter if BMW decided to put out new models without those. Surely any BMW buyer would find that totally OK and basically inconsequential and not even have an opinion about it.

 

[I7guy]

Moving things in a different direction is easy when in the process you get to not only save money but even make some additional money on top of it (while the burden of it is mostly shifted onto someone else. Seems like Apple has been capable to consider the consumer a bit more at times in the past -- although maybe that was still simply based on perception and a PR type of approach on their side and not much more.

It’s presumptuous to assume apple is saving money, net net or making money.

Consumers have to decide for themselves if this system works and then vote with their / our dollars.

I do think apple tries to mitigate the results of its decisions when it is possible to do so.

And that's essentially a big part of what places like online forums are about, and what's happening with this (and a lot of other things). There are certainly plenty of people that don't care about all kinds of things, but that doesn't mean much in terms of others who do care and would like to voice that.

Sure online forums are for voicing opinions. But everybody should expect a two way conversion.

 

[I7guy]

By that type of logic the pennies that would be involved in including the power adapters are of even less impact to Apple so they might as well be doing what they have always been doing based on that.
....

Basically environment 1, consumers 0. Although I do think the pennies saved saved a big price jump on the iPhone 12. The consumer should be much happier next year...feee from environmental gluttony.

 

[C DM]

It’s presumptuous to assume apple is saving money, net net or making money.

Between including an accessory and not including one doesn't seem like there's much to interpret that money isn't being saved. And between having some additional people separately buying an accessory that was previously included and not having those people buy that accessory seems like there isn't really any other way to interpret that more money is coming in from those additional sales.

Basically environment 1, consumers 0. Although I do think the pennies saved saved a big price jump on the iPhone 12. The consumer should be much happier next year...feee from environmental gluttony.

Well, environment 1, company 1, and consumer 0 to be more accurate. It's too bad the consumer gets to take on the burden for those 1s that the environment and the company get.

Sure online forums are for voicing opinions. But everybody should expect a two way conversion.

Indeed, thus at least some of the responses that mainly say that that there's essentially nothing there and people shouldn't have anything to voice their take on and should just "stop complaining" seem to go against that concept.

 

[bmac4]

And that's essentially a big part of what places like online forums are about, and what's happening with this (and a lot of other things). There are certainly plenty of people that don't care about all kinds of things, but that doesn't mean much in terms of others who do care and would like to voice that.

So what would you have Apple do? If they said F it and not stop e waste, they decided to put a brick in the box. Which one is it? Last year it was the 18w. Which that fits the cable in the box. Surely that’s what Apple would do. Then you would have people bitching it’s not the one for the MagSafe charger. Can they please anyone?

 

[C DM]

So what would you have Apple do? If they said F it and not stop e waste, they decided to put a brick in the box. Which one is it? Last year it was the 18w. Which that fits the cable in the box. Surely that’s what Apple would do. Then you would have people bitching it’s not the one for the MagSafe charger. Can they please anyone?

Have a plan to transition to it, like let's say they did when they removed the headphone jack. Either include a power adapter at least for some period of time when the change is made to push toward USB-C, or include some program (like an option during the ordering process or something like a voucher system) for a period of time when that change is made where people can request a power adapter with their purchase if they need one.

There are options that can and do exist and some can be better or worse in different respects, just because one is selected doesn't mean that's as good as it gets. Sure, everyone can't really be pleased with everything completely all the time, but it doesn't mean that things can't be done better in some way at times. In this case, it's certainly better in different respects in terms of the environment and the company itself, but not really in terms of the consumer. There can be an option which works out where things are a little more balanced out, at least for some initial period when changes are made to account for the transition.

Not everyone might care about that, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean that others who do might not have something worthy of discussion simply because some others don't care or just because that's how things are and that's that.

 

[bmac4]

Have a plan to transition to it, like let's say they did when they removed the headphone jack. Either include a power adapter at least for some period of time when the change is made to push toward USB-C, or include some program (like an option during the ordering process or something like a voucher system) for a period of time when that change is made where people can request a power adapter with their purchase if they need one.

There are options that can and do exist and some can be better or worse in different respects, just because one is selected doesn't mean that's as good as it gets. Sure, everyone can't really be pleased with everything completely all the time, but it doesn't mean that things can't be done better in some way at times. In this case, it's certainly better in different respects in terms of the environment and the company itself, but not really in terms of the consumer. There can be an option which works out where things are a little more balanced out, at least for some initial period when changes are made to account for the transition.

Not everyone might care about that, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean that others who do might not have something worthy of discussion simply because some others don't care or just because that's how things are and that's that.

But then everyone would request a brick because they would feel like they paid for it. I know I would feel cheated by not getting it. Then if everyone does it, how does that help?

I can’t understand frustration with someone like the headphone jack because Apple wasn’t clear with why were doing it. I think mostly because it was to push Bluetooth headphone they make, but maybe not. Here they were clear, they were helping the environment.

It’s like a bandaid, just rip it off. People will be mad, but it’s much better to get it over with. Next year people won’t think a thing about it. Had you done what you proposed, this would have been all done over again. It’s a freaking charging brick for goodness sake.

 

[I7guy]

Between including an accessory and not including one doesn't seem like there's much to interpret that money isn't being saved. And between having some additional people separately buying an accessory that was previously included and not having those people buy that accessory seems like there isn't really any other way to interpret that more money is coming in from those additional sales.

With all of the new tech in the phones, one can postulate it's a net zero for Apple on this for this year. Maybe next year, it might be a truism to say Apple is saving money and profiting from additional sales, while at the same time mitigating environmental waste. I think this has to be kept in perspective though.

Well, environment 1, company 1, and consumer 0 to be more accurate. It's too bad the consumer gets to take on the burden for those 1s that the environment and the company get.Indeed, thus at least some of the responses that mainly say that that there's essentially nothing there and people shouldn't have anything to voice their take on and should just "stop complaining" seem to go against that concept.

Not all consumer = 0. I for one am happy there is no charger or pods, as I have a stock pile. I believe it's important to quantify the universe. I'm not clear on who is saying "stop the complaining", however, it's a done deal and at some level complaining is probably not going to bring these items back.

And to be fair, Apple is not the only company sticking it to consumers in some fashion, although as I noted removing the cd drive probably disenfranchised consumers as well. Food companies disenfranchise consumers by tacitly raising prices by decreasing the volume of product sold. It's not only Apple that does this sort of thing.

 

[boltjames]

By that type of logic the pennies that would be involved in including the power adapters are of even less impact to Apple so they might as well be doing what they have always been doing based on that.

And, just to use the always appreciated car analogy (not comparison, but analogy) in relation to that type of logic: brand new latest BMW models are similar type of frivolous luxuries, and for people that get them purchasing a $100 gas door isn't of much consequence so it wouldn't matter if BMW decided to put out new models without those. Surely any BMW buyer would find that totally OK and basically inconsequential and not even have an opinion about it.

As a BMW owner, if I were forced to spend $100 for a gas door I would chuckle, smirk, and view it as yet another thing that separates me from those who cannot afford a luxury car of that nature. Part of the prestige.

The point here is that charging $20 for an adapter for a $1,000 iPhone is not like a packet of sugar for a $.99 cent cup of coffee. Charging those folks $.10 cents a packet would be the wrong thing to do. The iPhone adapter? Inconsequential to its audience.

 

[C DM]

As a BMW owner, if I were forced to spend $100 for a gas door I would chuckle, smirk, and view it as yet another thing that separates me from those who cannot afford a luxury car of that nature. Part of the prestige.

The point here is that charging $20 for an adapter for a $1,000 iPhone is not like a packet of sugar for a $.99 cent cup of coffee. Charging those folks $.10 cents a packet would be the wrong thing to do. The iPhone adapter? Inconsequential to its audience.

And yet BMW would be laughed at if they would do that.

As mentioned, some might not care, but that in itself doesn't mean it's the best thing or that it couldn't be better even if it might be good in some sort of respects.

I would chuckle, smirk, and view it as yet another thing that separates me from those who cannot afford a luxury car of that nature. Part of the prestige.

Strangely enough this supposedly inconsequential discussion doesn't seem to fit in with a separation of that sort.

 

[C DM]

Not all consumer = 0. I for one am happy there is no charger or pods, as I have a stock pile.

Well, you aren't getting something that you used to get as part of your purchase, so that's at best a 0, while those who would need to get a charger for one reason or another it's actually more like a -1 for them.

 

[C DM]

But then everyone would request a brick because they would feel like they paid for it.

Supposedly plenty of people who are saying they don't really care about this change in threads of this nature are saying how they have no need for extra power adapters and would like not get an extra one that they would just toss in drawer. But suddenly everyone would request one? Seems like that doesn't really fit in. Certainly feeling like goal posts are being moved and things are being cherry picked to try to come up with whatever fitting narrative would fit the moment.

It’s like a bandaid, just rip it off. People will be mad, but it’s much better to get it over with. Next year people won’t think a thing about it. Had you done what you proposed, this would have been all done over again. It’s a freaking charging brick for goodness sake.

Expressions like "death by a thousand paper cuts" and "nickel
and dining" exist for a reason and their concepts apply to quite a few things.

Again, not everyone might care, but that in itself doesn't mean there isn't something to care. We will surely move on but it doesn't mean something isn't worth of being discussed -- just like with pretty much everything else, those who don't think that it is can certainly not participate in the discussion of it's not for them.

 

[I7guy]

Well, you aren't getting something that you used to get as part of your purchase, so that's at best a 0, while those who would need to get a charger for one reason or another it's actually more like a -1 for them.

Along with not getting something, I don't feel I am entitled to it either. I have a choice in the matter in the products I buy, because on factors such as this. It's simply not a matter of I lose, because Apple (or any other company) is no longer providing something they used to at a nominal cost. Especially if it's a net zero to me and a +1 for the environment.

 

[bmac4]

Supposedly plenty of people who are saying they don't really care about this change in threads of this nature are saying how they have no need for extra power adapters and would like not get an extra one that they would just toss in drawer. But suddenly everyone would request one? Seems like that didn't follow the narrative. Certainly feeling like goal posts are being moved and things are being cherry picked to try to come up with whatever fitting narrative would fit the moment.

So I am totally fine with not having a brick in the box. Think it’s a good idea, and hope it helps the environment. That being said, how many people would just order the brick because it was an option for “free”. How many people wouldn’t take that option? Sure some wouldn’t care for it, but it cost nothing people would take it. That doesn’t change my stance. Those same people also now don’t care they don’t have it. Those thing can both be true, and can think complaining is pointless.

 

[bmac4]

And yet BMW would be laughed at if they would do that.

As mentioned, some might not care, but that in itself doesn't mean it's the best thing or that it couldn't be better even if it might be good in some sort of respects.


Strangely enough this supposedly inconsequential discussion doesn't seem to fit in with a separation of that sort.

Well BMW started out offering wireless CarPlay for free. Now they are going to start charging for it. BMW sales haven’t slowed.

 

[C DM]

Well BMW started out offering wireless CarPlay for free. Now they are going to start charging for it. BMW sales haven’t slowed.

And that's basically the point, that something like that is not a measurement of what necessarily benefits the consumer or that it can't be better. Different things in play there. That's what's at the center of the discussion here. Just like in this case no one is really saying that Apple will somehow feel a negative impact of they decided to do (especially if they are benefiting from it from the beginning basically), but that doesn't mean that the consumers aren't affected.

Again, some might not care, but that doesn't change that there isn't really a gain for consumers, and at least for some of them there's an additional loss, or that even it's something that would be of longer term benefit in an overall sense that it can't be done better, especially during the initial transitional period.

 

[bmac4]

And that's basically the point, that something like that is not a measurement of what benefits the consumer. Different things in play there. That's what's at the center of the discussion here. Just like in this case no one is really saying that Apple will somehow feel a negative impact of their decision (especially if they are benefiting from it from the beginning basically), but it doesn't mean that the consumers are affected. Again, some might not care, but that doesn't change that there isn't a gain for consumers, and at least for some of them there's an additional loss.

But you missed my point. People aren’t complaining about BMW’s decision. I am saying the same for Apple. The new iPhone is a premium phone lets be real. It may not be best for some consumers, but who cares? Why do people care and feel the need to complain? What good does it do?

 

[C DM]

But you missed my point. People aren’t complaining about BMW’s decision. I am saying the same for Apple. The new iPhone is a premium phone lets be real. It may not be best for some consumers, but who cares? Why do people care and feel the need to complain? What good does it do?

Except that I've seen discussions complaining about that sort of thing as well. It would be rather odd for consumers not to discuss change like that.

Coming back to the actual discussion at hand -- going down the logical path of those sentiments, what good does complaining about those who want to bring up and discuss something do? Seeing that that's essentially what it's really about, wouldn't it not only follow the laid out logic but even just be simpler to ignore discussions that are about something that supposedly doesn't matter and is thus inconsequential?

 

[colodane]

I'm fine with Apple's decision to not include the brick. It gives everyone more flexibility in terms of what connector system to use. People with older bricks who don't demand the fastest charging can use them, along with their existing cables. I personally like USB-C and will want to purchase a 20W brick for use when traveling. Apple's lack of an included brick will allow me to purchase the Anker Nano brick, save $3 vs. the Apple, and end up with a smaller brick. I'm quite happy with that.

 

[C. Robert]

I bought a $200 pair of Nike's and there weren't any shoe laces in the box. I called Nike and they said clean and use your old shoe laces or buy some new ones. "Dramatization" Also If I buy the MagSafe and use it with my iPad Pro or MacBook charger I don't get the full charging power of the MagSafe. In order to get the 15 watts I need to buy the new 20 watt charger.

 

[kanga1622]

I understand why Apple would not include bricks with the phone. I’ve purchased 5 pair of Bluetooth headphones in the last 2-3 years and not a single set came with the brick - just the cable. And these were inexpensive headphones so buying a brick would significantly increase the overall cost of the product.

I purchased two new iPhones and have now purchased 3 new bricks. Each brick has USB-A and USB-C port so it makes it easier to charge everything and take up fewer outlets. I didn’t love spending the extra money but I am happy we can streamline our charging station and travel options.

 

[bmac4]

Except that I've seen discussions complaining about that sort of thing as well. It would be rather odd for consumers not to discuss change like that.

Coming back to the actual discussion at hand -- going down the logical path of those sentiments, what good does complaining about those who want to bring up and discuss something do? Seeing that that's essentially what it's really about, wouldn't it not only follow the laid out logic but even just be simpler to ignore discussions that are about something that supposedly doesn't matter and is thus inconsequential?

Agreed and I have for the most part, but then I came here and it bothered me that the OP was complaining that he didn’t know. He thought the iPhone had a new port. I hate the complaining on MR, but I will just pass it by. Complaining and saying you didn’t know is another thing. As a consumer, isn’t ours jobs to read the fine print and understand what we are spending our money on? No one can say they weren’t informed. If they didn’t read, that’s on them not Apple.

My points are simple. Make sure you understand what your buying. Uninformed buyer doesn’t mean poor communication from Apple. Uninformed and also complaining, to me is very off putting and annoying. Two I completely disagree that Apple should have included the brick. A lot of electronics only come with a cable. All battery banks do these days. Plenty of other things do. Just because Apple has done it a certain way for years, that doesn’t mean it’s time to change. I think those are both very fair points. I see that you think just let it go, but this thread was different. I think you can agree on that. Blaming Apple for someone not know what’s in the box isn’t right. Apple did inform everyone.

 

[bmac4]

I bought a $200 pair of Nike's and there weren't any shoe laces in the box. I called Nike and they said clean and use your old shoe laces or buy some new ones. "Dramatization" Also If I buy the MagSafe and use it with my iPad Pro or MacBook charger I don't get the full charging power of the MagSafe. In order to get the 15 watts I need to buy the new 20 watt charger.

You want to complain to Mophie for not including a power brick in the box with their battery products? You can’t charge those expect through USB-A without a brick.

 

[boltjames]

You want to complain to Mophie for not including a power brick in the box with their battery products? You can’t charge those expect through USB-A without a brick.

Exactly. I once bought a DVD player and it didn't come with DVD's. The humanity.

Instead of raising the price of the iPhone 12 by $20 and forcing consumers to take an adapter they might not need, they kept the price down and allow customers to make their own decisions. No one is getting ripped off here. If you need an iPhone 12 with an adapter, just buy it that way.

 

[bmac4]

Exactly. I once bought a DVD player and it didn't come with DVD's. The humanity.

Instead of raising the price of the iPhone 12 by $20 and forcing consumers to take an adapter they might not need, they kept the price down and allow customers to make their own decisions. No one is getting ripped off here. If you need an iPhone 12 with an adapter, just buy it that way.

Agreed! Most electronics these days don’t come with a power brick. I am not mad about it at all. At this point if you don’t have at least one Apple power brick and several other ones, what the heck happened? Did you lose everything?