So, the Surface is that bad. Vent elsewhere, please. People might mistake you for someone who knows what they are talking about, and get bad advice.
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I want to buy a new MBP but I'm not 100% sure yet
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So, the Surface is that bad. Vent elsewhere, please. People might mistake you for someone who knows what they are talking about, and get bad advice.
I do know what I am talking about especially with OS X & Mac`s, nor am I going to be baited by you, on a subject that you may or more likely know little to nothing about.
Q-6
@WRONG if your 2009 is not dying and you're buying with your own money (aka not a work equipment you have to buy right now), wait until spring or June (WWDC).
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I have both Surface and 4 15" MBPs - 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2016. Surface and MBPs 2011, 2013 and 2015 are amazing. Will you justify that?
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Why ? What's gonna happen in Spring or in June (WWDC Event) ? I don't think Apple is ready with Gen 2 of the 2016 15" rMBP !
@OP: I faced a similar choice just recently, even though my 2011 MBP is a bit newer - I opted for the now discontinued 11 inch MBA since the 17 inch MBP is just too huge to carry around.
Anyway, if you don't need the newest and latest just to have it you could even be satisfied with an Air for the time being. The screen is not amazingly awesome but it'll do the job. Also, if you get the i7 it's just as fast (pretty much) as a base 13 inch pro (here's my 11 inch Air):
Personally I didn't want to invest large sums in the 2016 version - I'll see if they bring meaningful updates (battery, RAM) in 2017 and might sell the Air ... anyway, just wanted to point out that you don't have to spend 3k on a 2016 MBP and then be disappointed that it won't be 3 times as "good" as a 1k Air
Anyway, if you don't need the newest and latest just to have it you could even be satisfied with an Air for the time being. The screen is not amazingly awesome but it'll do the job. Also, if you get the i7 it's just as fast (pretty much) as a base 13 inch pro (here's my 11 inch Air):
Personally I didn't want to invest large sums in the 2016 version - I'll see if they bring meaningful updates (battery, RAM) in 2017 and might sell the Air ... anyway, just wanted to point out that you don't have to spend 3k on a 2016 MBP and then be disappointed that it won't be 3 times as "good" as a 1k Air
@WRONG I'd say that at this point the 2015 rMBP 15" might be a better choice (and less expensive too). There just isn't enough power difference to justify the increased price and the much lower battery life. Also, the Haswell CPU in the 2015 model is still pretty damn good, despite of it's old age.
The 2016 is a fantastic machine. You can stat compare all day but using it is a joy and I haven't seen anyone post about user experience.
Hey, I'm not saying they are not good - or amazing even. I'm just saying Queen6 seems to be bashing MBP to justify his own choice. Or he's just trolling, I don't know. But I'm not saying anyone who gets a Surface 4 or Surface Book has some envy issues or that they should be better off with a MBP.
Look, I know where this is all coming from, but I honestly believe most of these products are great. I'm not really a fan of Dell, but the XPS seems like a good computer. I don't think it's better than MBP, but that's my opinion. Surfaces are too different to compare, in my opinion, but I'm glad they exist. If Surface 5 has a pen I like, one that is comparable to Wacom pens in terms of pressure curve, straight lines when drawing slowe, activation pressure - I may actually consider a Surface for illustration.
Hope that clears things up.
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The battery life isn't much lower. It isn't even lower. I was expecting it to be higher - it's not. Basically, you get a slightly higher battery life running low power apps and a slightly lower running high power apps. But it certainly isn't "much lower".
As for rMBP 15" it's a solid machine. The 2016. offers a significantly faster GPU, a better screen, a better trackpad and a new design. Whether this is worth the price difference, it's up to the OP.
I'm quite sure there will be a new MBP with layered battery (like in MB) and Iris Pro along with lower prices. Apple ****ed up with this release, they won't wait a year for a new one, they have to patch things up quickly. One could say late November before a lot of customers got theirs that the negative perception is just Apple-hating. Now it's clear it's not, there are problems. If Apple does not address them with new flawless release and will continue "exchanging" devices they will get bad publicity for the whole year.
Because how a computer performs and feels personally requires some specific knowledge that you have and I don't.
You're really full of this stuff, aren't you?
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Well, they aren't going to rush anything just because a few Macrumors posters and clickbait bloggers are talking trash. The computer is selling great, people are satisfied and there will be a normal refresh in November.
BTW, Iris Pro will not be on the new MBP because it's not needed. And I don't think Intel even uses the "pro" naming scheme any more, not with Kaby Lake.
As for lower prices - who knows?
Apple should provide cheaper version for higher i-gpu version 15" 4 core machine non touch,
standard color space and use technology of MB12 screen to improve the battery performance.
I expect to upgrade 15" i-gpu version, unfortunately only expensive dgpu version provide, it out of our budget as 512gb need more that 2500USD
standard color space and use technology of MB12 screen to improve the battery performance.
I expect to upgrade 15" i-gpu version, unfortunately only expensive dgpu version provide, it out of our budget as 512gb need more that 2500USD
Listen, it just isn't. I don't want to disprove your statement by offering anecdotal evidence of my own. It's just word against word.
But there is this physics thing that cannot be worked around easily. Skylake is not some revolution in energy efficiency. It's an evolutionary generation. It still has the same 45W TDP as the 2015 had (and 2015's CPU was a third "generation" of Haswell generation while 2016's CPU is the "first" generation of Skylake; I'd speculate 2015's CPU is optimized better than 2016's CPU with other things being equal). So maybe, just maybe, 10% power efficiency at the very max! 10% is simply too gracious but let's leave it as it is.
RAM has quite the same consumption. SSD, again, like CPU could only be evolutionary, not revolutionary better in regards of power consumption.
2015 was available without dGPU at all. 2016 is available with dGPU only and its iGPU is much slower than 2015 iGPU. So 2016 will lean to dGPU more often than 2015 with dGPU ever would and comparison with 2015 without dGPU is just comical - 2016 will spend a lot more energy. One might argue that dGPU in 2016 is much more performant than iGPU and even dGPU in 2015 so it will compute faster and thus spend less energy just because it will spend less time computing. This is true if we talked about video montage or Photoshop. Yet the claims about 10 hours Apple makes are simple things that were easily done on iGPU alone in 2015 and not so easily in 2016.
There is this whole new gimmick called Touch bar. I won't argue if it's good or bad, to each his own. But I will argue that it spends energy (and considering this a small display, it's not like 0.00001W). And 2015 didn't have this additional energy spender at all.
And yet they've shrinked the battery for 1/4 of its capacity.
It's just impossible from physics POV 2016's has the same working hours all other things being equal as 2015's.
For this to be the case they would've optimized display consumption for like 50% or more. But this cannot be the case because display, again, is only evolutionary better. It's not a new, one of it's kind OLED display no one except Apple does. It's just an evolutionary better display than the one they had in 2015.
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You're sooo right. They won't. They will rush it because the product does not live up to Apple standards. Not because of a few Macrumors posters and clickbait bloggers. That is also the reason they won't listen to one Macrumors poster that says them to release new version in next November and no earlier.
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I've been wrestling with the same issue -- and even started this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/actual-mbp-2016-users-please-tell-me-the-truth.2023513/
In the end I decided to order a base 15-inch. I've nothing to lose: if I don't like it, I'll send it back. But the majority view on my thread was that the new MBP is a fantastic machine that's a joy to use. I wish I hadn't seen the photo of the inside of it, clearly showing the non-streamlined battery. I know at some point next year -- I suspect later rather than sooner -- they'll announce a new one with an amazing custom battery that gives 12 hours of use with a single charge. But my plan if I keep the new one is to ban myself from MacRumors and live in ignorance of new Apple releases. I'll have everything that Apple currently makes and there'll be no reason to go Apple shopping again for at least two years if not three.
As much as I love MacRumors (forums) it does tend to make you think that everything Apple does is a disaster. I'm thrilled with all my Apple products -- even the useless Watch and terrible AirPods. I just have upgrade lust for the 2016 MBP (I have the 2015) and have persuaded myself that I need to trade up to 15-inches.
In the end I decided to order a base 15-inch. I've nothing to lose: if I don't like it, I'll send it back. But the majority view on my thread was that the new MBP is a fantastic machine that's a joy to use. I wish I hadn't seen the photo of the inside of it, clearly showing the non-streamlined battery. I know at some point next year -- I suspect later rather than sooner -- they'll announce a new one with an amazing custom battery that gives 12 hours of use with a single charge. But my plan if I keep the new one is to ban myself from MacRumors and live in ignorance of new Apple releases. I'll have everything that Apple currently makes and there'll be no reason to go Apple shopping again for at least two years if not three.
As much as I love MacRumors (forums) it does tend to make you think that everything Apple does is a disaster. I'm thrilled with all my Apple products -- even the useless Watch and terrible AirPods. I just have upgrade lust for the 2016 MBP (I have the 2015) and have persuaded myself that I need to trade up to 15-inches.
Hello!
I am coming from a 2009 MBP too!
My 2016 shipped with the latest update and I haven't seen any GPU issues (460 here) or battery issues. Only issue I've seen is with some Touch Bar bugs which is software related.
About the battery: our 2009s probably barely lasted on battery when it's this old...mine maybe gets 2-3 hours. The new MBP has to better than that!
By the way with light browsing yesterday, Activity Monitor kept reporting I would get around 11 hours...not sure how accurate that is though
The best jab for these "fantastic machine that's a joy to use" is to look at the early threads where people reported problems that eventually grew to be class-action lawsuits that Apple countered with a replacement program several days before court hearing. You'll see the same positive people with fantastic machines which are a joy to use scoff people with problems justifying their own self-right.
Now you see. If I stumble upon a review which says that everything about new MBP is bad - I know it's ********. It's just an Apple-hater. If I stumble upon a review which says EVERYTHING about new MBP is "fanstastic", "the best", "amazing", "super", "joy to use", "superior from the first minute", bla-bla-blah, this whole Steve Jobs presentation motto to repeat "amazing" 100500 times - I know they're full of **** as well. They're either incompetent to know better (which is not that bad, just ignore their reviews) or trying to prove their decision to be right (this is the worst, they deliberately spoil the whole picture and they do not back off unfortunately in face of proofs, they just repeat over and over their non-factual anecdotal position).
Unfortunately there are quite few of the first ("everything is bad") and quite a lot of the second.
The reviews you should pay attention to are those which have well explained pros and cons. The threads targeting specific problems are worth reading as well. The reactionary threads "all your threads are ******** because I like mine" (anecdotal evidence) are not.
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You could rationalize buying ANY new MacBook with this. Because a year and a half old battery is worse than the new one even if the new one has been shrinked.
The real question is 2009 battery life vs 2015 vs 2016. Not 2009 vs 2016. Obviously even used 2012 will have better battery life than 2009.
Unfortunately for me, 2015 will win here.
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"Its larger pixel aperture and variable refresh rate make it more power efficient than previous generations"
There is some power consumption savings here.
My question: what arbitrary level of battery is satisfactory for people?
[doublepost=1482597032][/doublepost]You could rationalize buying ANY new MacBook with this. Because a year and a half old battery is worse than the new one even if the new one has been shrinked.
The real question is 2009 battery life vs 2015 vs 2016. Not 2009 vs 2016. Obviously even used 2012 will have better battery life than 2009.
Unfortunately for me, 2015 will win here.
But is it not true? Why would someone coming from an old MBP that has bad battery care if the new MBP gets 6-8 hours on battery? These things aren't made to impress people who bought one last year
And not because it's physically impossible but just because Apple rushed non-layered battery to market not to miss another holiday season as they've already missed at least three. I. e. Apple put itself hostage in the situation they've created themselves. This is the most saddening and maddening fact here.
What does it matter? 8 hours instead of 10?
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Ah yes speculative articles for the win! Just like the ones claiming Pokémon GO for Apple Watch was shelved? Or the AirPods were going to be delayed until next year while they figure out how to fix syncing issues?
The new MBP updates were already significantly overdo. They had time and this is what they came up with.
I have the 13" Touchbar model and absolutely love it. I have no issues and no problems with battery life. So not everybody is having troubles.
If you think you would like the new model, just buy it and try it out. If you don't like it you have 14 days to return it. Surely in 14 days you can determine if it meets your needs or has any of the issues you are concerned about.
Did I understand you right: vendors should only make new generation better than three generations old as they're not trying to impress the previous generation buyers or just make the product better? Oi-vei, Apple, you could've shrinked the battery more!
The problem, again, is that you compare 2009 with oooold battery only to 2016.
Compare 2009 with your current battery, 2009 with new battery, 2015 with new battery and 2016 with new battery. You will see something like 3 hours vs 6 hours vs 12 hours vs 8 hours. Now again, it depends on your needs. You could've very well said "8 hours is enough for me that is why the lower battery capacity compared to 2015 does not matter to me". But saying "whatev, 2016 is superior to 2015" is simply not true in battery life.
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Well, it's either this speculation, or the worse speculation that Apple held 2-year old technology (layered battery appeared in MB early 2015) just to squeeze more profit in early to mid 2017 where they will eventually let layered battery happen.
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Are you sure the troubles experienced in different threads are observed in circumstances you've used your MBP in and you haven't observed these problems? Or is it that you haven't used your MBP in these circumstances (either yet or because you don't need to)?
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Obviously I can't speak to how the hundreds of people on this forum are using their MacBooks. But I can tell you my usage is not anything particularly unique. Like I said, OP has nothing to lose by buying the MacBook setting it up how he likes and using it like he/she normally does for a couple weeks then deciding what to do with it.
What I'm saying: this laptop is not aimed to please people who bought a 2015 MBP.
*Most* people upgrading won't have the luxury of comparing MBPs they own from each of the last four years to the new one. They simply won't notice or care that the battery may be better or worse than last years model because they won't have one. What they have is people fearmongering them about a laptop they don't even need because they already have a newer one.
These things aren't just about the battery. There are other things people are looking to. Touch Bar, wide color screen to name two headlining features.
Why would I say what you said in bold? The people constantly bringing up the battery issues should be the ones to convince us why the battery would be an issue. Most people aren't comparing it to the 2015 and when they do it's because other people keep bringing it up