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Lenovo ThinkPads are junk. The switch is a good move by IBM.
Agreed. Ever since IBM sold their PC division to Lenovo, the quality has become junk.

And Lenovo makes customizations such that Windows won't run well without Lenovo-proprietary device drivers and applications installed. Given how much the Chinese government micro-manages Chinese corporations, and that they're pretty much spying on everything, that really bothers me.
Big mistake. When they realize what a CPU-clogging clusterfrack OS X has become they'll go running back to Windows.
You mean worse than that system-clogging clusterfrack that has been every version of Windows for the last 10 years?

People look back and reminisce about Windows XP and 7 as if they are so great and wonderful, but they forget that they were a nightmare when they first shipped. People only like them now that they've had years of patches, and that the hardware has improved by orders of magnitude since then.

Of course, a new PC is going to ship with Windows 8 or 10, so we're back to pointless bloatware all over the place.
I don't quite get what the article is implying. It sounds like IBM wants a Macbook that is the same or cheaper than a PC notebook. Well, what type of notebook are we talking about? Apple might compete on the high-end, but if they want a $600 Macbook, that would be pretty shifty of Apple to make them for IBM and no one else (because remember, after all, Apple doesn't make "junk".)
There are some efficiencies of scale coming into play here.

If IBM is really going to order 150K units of the same model every year, then Apple can afford to make a custom spin. Much like how Dell and HP will produce custom variations for large customers.

And it will cost Apple less. Apple won't be fielding support calls for those 150K systems. All the tech support will be going through IBM's IT department, with Apple only being contacted by the IT department for the really nasty problems. So they can afford to charge less than what they could afford to charge a retail customer.
If their relationship keeps like this maybe we'll get IBM rackmount servers with OS X Server as an offering. That would be nice.
It would be, but I'm sure IBM is using their own big iron for their servers. After all, their main product lines these days involve data center equipment, cloud computing, Linux clusters, etc.
Frankly, those of us who remember the days of IBM's OS/2 operating system know it was never really as fast as Windows, but that was sort of irrelevant. People who ran OS/2 appreciated having the choice to use a commercial OS besides Windows, with some unique features and capabilities.
Those of us who developed software for OS/2 know that these performance problems were because the OS did a whole lot more than the contemporary Windows (3.1 and 95).

Remember how, at that same time, the Windows fanbois were slamming Windows NT (3.1 and 4.0) because it also performed worse than Win95. And for the same reasons - it was doing more, providing more useful system services, and had protection around critical system resources.

And, of course, both of these advanced OS's (OS/2 and WinNT) were running on the same hardware that home users were running DOS and Win95 on. (486 or Pentium, maxed out at 16MB of RAM.) Given the same hardware, the OS that has the least capabilities is going to run your apps faster, especially when we're dealing with apps that expect direct access to the lowest levels of the hardware.
Corporate PCs are priced very high. Apple could charge full retail and still be about the same.
To a certain extent. A corporation won't buy the cheapest computer they can find, because they know that those computers tend to be flaky and they aren't powerful enough to run corporate-standard apps all day.

Any reasonable IT department measures total cost of ownership (TCO). In addition to the price of the hardware, they need to evaluate how often it will need to be replaced, the cost of repairs (even when covered by warranty, repairs are costly, because the user is without his computer and therefore can't do as much work), the performance of mandatory software packages, the amount of calls to the IT support help desk, etc.

I have a few friends who work in corporate IT support roles and they always point out that the Mac users create far fewer support calls per-capita than the Windows users, and that they need hardware replacement less often. This cost savings is known to IT departments that bother to do the research, and it can easily offset a higher up-front cost for the hardware.

Also you need upgradable ram, Storage and you need to be able to change the battery. If you cannot do any of that stuff, your Laptop only has like a 2 year life before either something goes wrong with it or you outgrow it.
Maybe. In the 15 years I've been working with PCs at my desk, the IT department has never upgraded my RAM or storage, and they've only issued me a new battery once. And we typically keep our systems 3-4 years before they are swapped out (and when that happens, it is mandatory - we're not allowed to keep old equipment, because it becomes a support nightmare.) This is with Dell and HP laptops (high-end mobile workstation models).

I think RAM and storage won't need to be upgraded if the IT department does its job and specifies enough to cover employees' needs for the lifespan of that system (3-4 years where I work). As for battery replacement, by my experience, most people won't need it within that lifespan. And those that do can have it replaced by an IT tech (much like how they swapped out my CPU heat sink and cooling fans one one PC a few years ago.)

These are probably the things that IBM will negotiate with Apple. How to specify the system requirements, and training IBM's IT people to be certified Apple repair techs so they can order parts and do the servicing that would otherwise require sending equipment to Apple.

You can't use experience with personal or small business purchases and apply that to massive corporate contracts. There are things that IBM can (and almost certainly will) do that you and I could never consider, simply by virtue of the fact that they want to buy 150K systems every year.
 
Lenovo ThinkPads are junk. The switch is a good move by IBM.
Since Lenovo bought IBM's PC business, all these Lenovo ThinkPads were originally IBM ThinkPads. And from all I hear they are still the best PC laptops on the market. So please enlighten me and tell me what makes them junk.

Are they getting the reach around discount? I seriously doubt that IBM is willing to pony up the roughly $300 premium over a Windows laptop -- makes no sense.

Apple can charge more because they deliver more. Sure there will be some major price discussion going on for a $150 million per year contract. But Macs generally last a lot longer than PCs.
 
This is one company Apple would be glad to be doing business with :)

if there were issues in the past, i think this will seal the deal.

I guess no one had heard of Superfish then..
 
I use Lenovo laptops at work. They are pure junk.

Whoever designed the 440p should be forced to change all the trackpads, then fired.
Helix are plagued by bad firmware and drivers
T430 left hinge wears out breaking itself
I can go on and on...


Lenovo laptops do not equal IBM laptops of mid 90s.
 
I am sure somebody replied to you already (late comer to thread), but your question is interesting and I think I have the answer and you already probably reasoned it.

IBM is saying "listen bro, lets talk the figures I bet we can make something good at PC costs: we will buy your "special" hardware without the "special" price to exactly what we need (only go for essentials). Then we throw it together in the cheapest casing possible. You give it OS X support and we got an affordable computer for our company."
what?
that's not what ibm is saying.. "hey, sell us a hackintosh".
they want to buy the same computer you'd buy from apple.. just at a bulk rate..
 
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Are they getting the reach around discount? I seriously doubt that IBM is willing to pony up the roughly $300 premium over a Windows laptop -- makes no sense.
The request was for the "overall" cost to be lower. Just from less work debugging from malware and OS bugs alone the cost will be lower. Then the devices will last longer without hardware faults, OS updates will be seamless, a single device will run OSX, linux, Windows, so asset control will be simplified.

Then when they need a fast computer for some tasks they can buy a MacPro out of the box and really rip, or combine 3-6 of them in a grid. Or attach 2-8 displays.

Now that Microsoft is changing the user experience anyway, might as well retrain on something with known good features and benefits.
 
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I am still waiting for the day that companies extend BYOD to the laptop. There really is no need for companies to invest in the laptops anymore than they need to invest in phones. Let employees bring there own and they will be happier.

I remember the days that I was forced to carry a blackberry in one pocket for work and my iPhone in the other for personal. When BYOD was implemented I became very happy as I only needed one device and I could choose that device - I went with the iPhone of course.

Technology has evolved and the same can be done for the laptops. Give employees a network to log into, and then give them all web apps to use for their every day activities like email and office suite. For specific apps, if they are not web based, then give them virtual desktops to log into. In the end this is actually the most secure way since nothing lives on the laptop so once disconnected the data cannot be stolen if the computer is stolen.

Let's hope this move by IBM is just step one. I love apple and this is good, but I really do not need two laptops (mine and the companies). I just want mine.
 
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Let's hope this move by IBM is just step one. I love apple and this is good, but I really do not need two laptops (mine and the companies). I just want mine.

IBM already support BYOD laptops if you want. I don't personally agree with it. If I work for a company they should provide me with the tools to do the job and that includes the laptop
I don't really want my home machine to be locked down with all sorts of security settings. I can't imagine having to tell SWMBO that she needs to change her password every 90 days
 
I am still waiting for the day that companies extend BYOD to the laptop.

Let's hope this move by IBM is just step one. I love apple and this is good, but I really do not need two laptops (mine and the companies). I just want mine.

I guess if you work for a more progressive company that would be fine. I don't.

We are issued a corporate iPhone 5s and an iPad Air 2. They include airwatch, which is corporate spyware on steroids. Our corporate it policy also states that they can basically spy on us whenever we use the devices, even if it is off the clock time in a hotel room on the road.

On top of this, there is an unrelated lawsuit from my union alleging that the company illegally accessed the union computers as part of a union busting campaign. This is still being settled in the courts.

i would love to only carry one iPad and one iphone, instead of two of each, but with the required spyware, even if byod was an option I would refuse.

Byod devices/laptops are a good idea, but the devils in the details.
 
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I am still waiting for the day that companies extend BYOD to the laptop. There really is no need for companies to invest in the laptops anymore than they need to invest in phones. Let employees bring there own and they will be happier.

I remember the days that I was forced to carry a blackberry in one pocket for work and my iPhone in the other for personal. When BYOD was implemented I became very happy as I only needed one device and I could choose that device - I went with the iPhone of course.

Technology has evolved and the same can be done for the laptops. Give employees a network to log into, and then give them all web apps to use for their every day activities like email and office suite. For specific apps, if they are not web based, then give them virtual desktops to log into. In the end this is actually the most secure way since nothing lives on the laptop so once disconnected the data cannot be stolen if the computer is stolen.

Let's hope this move by IBM is just step one. I love apple and this is good, but I really do not need two laptops (mine and the companies). I just want mine.

Even when everything is remotely stored, it's still a security problem because if the laptop is compromised, the login credentials can be stolen when the employee goes to login to the company network. Plus, that compromised computer could be used to launch attacks on the network. Employees are soft targets for phishing and a company like IBM is a big target for industrial and state sponsored espionage. The attacks are often very sophisticated, subtle, and clever; it's not just a purple blinking popup promising free porn if you click here.

Worse, the company would have no way of dealing with the problem other than by blacklisting that computer. I know of a case where an important executive of a large corporation had his laptop stolen and the company was able to remotely wipe it pretty quickly. You can't do that without control over it and I don't blame companies for wanting that capability.
 
Any reasonable IT department measures total cost of ownership (TCO). In addition to the price of the hardware, they need to evaluate how often it will need to be replaced, the cost of repairs (even when covered by warranty, repairs are costly, because the user is without his computer and therefore can't do as much work), the performance of mandatory software packages, the amount of calls to the IT support help desk, etc.

I have a few friends who work in corporate IT support roles and they always point out that the Mac users create far fewer support calls per-capita than the Windows users, and that they need hardware replacement less often. This cost savings is known to IT departments that bother to do the research, and it can easily offset a higher up-front cost for the hardware.

This probably is the main argument. Quality will pay in the long run. I work with governance of IT and to me it's a mystery why large corporations mess around with Win clients when there are alternatives that are way more cost effective.
 
This probably is the main argument. Quality will pay in the long run. I work with governance of IT and to me it's a mystery why large corporations mess around with Win clients when there are alternatives that are way more cost effective.
I used to work for a very large media company. The whole company worked off crap Dell PCs. They were slow. Very slow. And very crap.

Then they decided a couple of years ago to ditch all the PCs and kit out the whole place with iMacs and MacBooks. And they're just a slow. And crap. (but they look nice)
 
It makes sense. This will become a trend. The TCO is very likely lower in an Apple based client infrastructure. E.g. the time workers at large corporations sit around waiting for their win-clients to be patched is substantial.

Patching won't go away, however the massive, massive problem that does go away with apple gear is building an SOE that actually installs on all your different hardware platforms, and keeping it up to date.

Apple gear? One OS X installs perfectly on all your machines.


disclosure: part of my day job is Windows platform maintenance - SCCM images, application packaging, etc.
 
I am sure somebody replied to you already (late comer to thread), but your question is interesting and I think I have the answer and you already probably reasoned it.

IBM is saying "listen bro, lets talk the figures I bet we can make something good at PC costs: we will buy your "special" hardware without the "special" price to exactly what we need (only go for essentials). Then we throw it together in the cheapest casing possible. You give it OS X support and we got an affordable computer for our company."

You might want to get up to date:

IBM are not and have not for some time (like, 10+ years, at least since they sold Thinkpad to Lenovo), been primarily a hardware (or software) company. They're a solutions provider.

IBM sell services and solutions (e.g., advice on hardware/software and development of application to support business activity X). They're not in this to try and make money reselling apple hardware or re badge it or whatever. That is not what IBM do these days.

IBM would love to be able to go to enterprise customers and offer them Linux servers with Apple workstations all talking open standard protocols. Even better if they can package an enterprise software suite for the company that runs across iPhone and Mac.

They've been pushing linux hard for years, which is fine on the back end. It sucks as a desktop (and here i am sure the "i run linux on the desktop" crowd will chime in. been there, done it since 1996, yes it still sucks comparatively. you can make it work but it is like pulling teeth). OS X is a very good desktop, but has the open source / unix infrastructure underneath and will play nicely in a Linux network.

The fact that it's a big 2 fingers and "screw you" to Microsoft is just gravy.

As I said, they're still dark over what Microsoft did to them over OS/2. And DOS for that matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#1985.E2.80.931989:_Joint_development

TLDR: microsoft and IBM were partners, MS bailed and stole half the code and developers to build Windows NT.
 
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I hope this means Apple would be more motivated to add more engineers to work on OS X. El Cap is a great start, it definitely feels lighter than the last 3-4 OS X versions but not as light as Windows 10. There are a lot of issues with OS X in general and Apple's just focusing on iOS more and more each year while doing less and less with OS X.

150,000 laptops a year is a very nice deal, but Apple sells about 18 to 20 million computers every year, so this change alone doesn't make any difference to Apple.
 
Apple could probably run this through their "Education" store, still offering standard products, but restricted configurations. The main problem is the way main RAM is soldered on more and more machines. My guess is that IBM - or any other company - would want increased RAM at a significant discount.
 
150,000 laptops a year is a very nice deal, but Apple sells about 18 to 20 million computers every year, so this change alone doesn't make any difference to Apple.

The difference is IBM is a giant engineering enterprise with a huge partnership with Apple (where they're producing hundreds of iOS apps for enterprises), they might actually have some big influence on Apple to push for improvements in various areas, like improving the unstable Xcode app that keeps crashing all the time for most of our developers.

The majority of the 18-20 million sales each year are to end-consumers (not enterprises and Windows is still the most dominate force in the overall PC market), they have no impact on overall for Apple. I'm hoping IBM might because they have amazing engineering teams behind them.
 
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I would like to think that this proposed deal is a low-stakes way for Apple to test the waters of re-entering the enterprise market. The enterprise market is enormous, and my sense is that Mac OS X has a relatively small presence in it. If true, that would allow Apple to sell a lot more Macs into a market that isn't already saturated with them, which seems like a terrific way to grow the Mac business. It's a bit of stretch for me to imagine Apple getting serious about enterprise (remember the Xserve and the years when Apple focused much more on OS X Server?) given its longstanding consumer focus.

I wonder how successful an enterprise push could really be for Apple at this moment in history. You don't just need to sell hardware at corporate-IT-department-friendly prices. There are many services that medium-sized and large companies are accustomed to in Windows environments, and I'm not sure whether those exist on the Mac side. I am not claiming that the Windows experience is better - I'll never buy anything but Macs for myself. I just have the sense that you need more things to make an enterprise environment work than you do to make even, say, a sophisticated home office work, and I don't know whether all of those things exist on the Mac side. Please educate me.

For instance, is there an enterprise-capable Mac equivalent of Microsoft Exchange (i.e., the back-end that runs Outlook)? Is there some part of Mac OS X Server that can duplicate this? (I know Apple chose years ago to stay with dedicated mail, calendaring, and task management apps rather than integrating them into an Outlook clone, and I respect the decision. I'm just asking if I wanted to run a medium-sized all-Mac business, could I do it?) And how about collaboration tools like SharePoint?

I've not forgotten from the OS wars of the '80s and '90s that many tens of thousands of software titles never made it to the Mac, including a lot of business software. Virtualization or dual booting can probably solve some - or maybe most - of these problems for people, but that still generally requires Windows and doesn't feel like a particularly efficient solution at scale. I'm not aware of a great enterprise-level database solution, which seems like a pre-requisite for small-to-medium-sized businesses; is the latest version of, say, FileMaker now on a par with Access? Or do we think open source cross-platform alternatives could pick up the slack?

With so much software having gone to the cloud, and with software-as-a-service increasingly popular, maybe Macs can be co-equal clients in environments where the servers are run on some other operating system. Maybe that's good enough to enable Apple to take on the Enterprise sphere now - I'm not sure. I'd be very happy to be wrong about all of the above - please educate me.

As others have pointed out, the scale of the IBM deal to buy Macs is relatively small compared to the number Apple sells annually. Maybe the best case scenario here is that Apple uses the existing partnership to find out what enterprise clients need that the Mac environment doesn't currently provide. I'll be curious to see how this evolves.
 
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