IBM to Purchase Up to 200,000 Macs, With 50-75% of Employees Ultimately Switching From Lenovo

Different cultures do tend to use different tools and different kinds of people also. In reality, tools have everything to do with culture.


Uhmm, no. That is not what culture would be. Actually, you are the one linking things together in some strange way. Culture influences tools and tools influence culture. Also, people using PCs in general are indeed different from those using Macs. Why would people buy Macs otherwise? If we agree that there are differences, then certainly from a certain perspective, one type of people is better than the other. Of course, this shouldn't be construed (like you are doing) as being a better person. There's nothing arrogant to think that someone is smarter, if they are, and that doesn't make them a better person, just a smarter one.

Tools have zero to do with the culture of a company, I work for a tech company in the valley that's constantly in the top 3 of best places to work and they focus heavily on their "culture". But not once do we ever or have we ever focused on the tools you use to send frigin emails. People are people there's no differences from those using one over the other in the most but it would appear a small set of one group has much more arrogance.
 
Are they getting the reach around discount? I seriously doubt that IBM is willing to pony up the roughly $300 premium over a Windows laptop -- makes no sense.

Enterprise deals of this volume get a massive discount. If bet they are getting anywhere from 30% to 50% off retail price and even below wholesale. I bet they are running BootVsmp or Parallels.
 
I do agree Lenovo has trashed thinkpad brand. It has no idea how to maintain and improve this brand.

ThinkPads already came with Windows when IBM owned them. The brand was trashed only in the minds of fanboys. Lenovo keeps on beating the other brands at sales for a reason. Even the cheapest ThinkPads are great. They are providing different sets of features for a wide range of budgets.

Traditional users may have a point in that some features were removed, but that does not make the machines bad for all the new users that don't miss them. The possible retro ThinkPad would be the product for them, finally.
 
ThinkPads already came with Windows when IBM owned them. The brand was trashed only in the minds of fanboys. Lenovo keeps on beating the other brands at sales for a reason. Even the cheapest ThinkPads are great. They are providing different sets of features for a wide range of budgets.

Traditional users may have a point in that some features were removed, but that does not make the machines bad for all the new users that don't miss them. The possible retro ThinkPad would be the product for them, finally.
I am told after acquiring personal computer business from IBM, many staff originally working in IBM pc department has left, leaving Lenovo alone to screw this ThinkPad brand, with their premature and far weaker basis on ability to retain DNA of a brand.

They are still in good quality simply because they may keep using premium materials, and retain old designs. I believe apple now is doing the same.

I fully admit I know very few about Lenovo and apple, and such is just my really incomplete though of it.
 
I am told after acquiring personal computer business from IBM, many staff originally working in IBM pc department has left, leaving Lenovo alone to screw this ThinkPad brand, with their premature and far weaker basis on ability to retain DNA of a brand.

They are still in good quality simply because they may keep using premium materials, and retain old designs. I believe apple now is doing the same.

I fully admit I know very few about Lenovo and apple, and such is just my really incomplete though of it.

I have seen some reports of people having some problems sometimes, so maybe they are not as solid as before, I don't know.

What seems to be terrible is the derivation of support to IBM. It's useless if you have technical presales questions without a support number that can result in being forwarded through multiple offices in different countries without getting an answer.

Repairs is where Apple is massively ahead of everybody else as you can bring in your stuff to a local service center and recover it fixed in 24 hours. It could still be better if one could get an immediate diagnostics and bring back the faulty item when the replacement part has been received, and also stocked more parts locally.
 
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Even when everything is remotely stored, it's still a security problem because if the laptop is compromised, the login credentials can be stolen when the employee goes to login to the company network. Plus, that compromised computer could be used to launch attacks on the network. Employees are soft targets for phishing and a company like IBM is a big target for industrial and state sponsored espionage. The attacks are often very sophisticated, subtle, and clever; it's not just a purple blinking popup promising free porn if you click here.

Worse, the company would have no way of dealing with the problem other than by blacklisting that computer. I know of a case where an important executive of a large corporation had his laptop stolen and the company was able to remotely wipe it pretty quickly. You can't do that without control over it and I don't blame companies for wanting that capability.
I guess if you work for a more progressive company that would be fine. I don't.

We are issued a corporate iPhone 5s and an iPad Air 2. They include airwatch, which is corporate spyware on steroids. Our corporate it policy also states that they can basically spy on us whenever we use the devices, even if it is off the clock time in a hotel room on the road.

On top of this, there is an unrelated lawsuit from my union alleging that the company illegally accessed the union computers as part of a union busting campaign. This is still being settled in the courts.

i would love to only carry one iPad and one iphone, instead of two of each, but with the required spyware, even if byod was an option I would refuse.

Byod devices/laptops are a good idea, but the devils in the details.

I downloaded two apps from the App Store -- Good and Citrix. Both are self contained and cannot spy on anything else going on in my phone/iPad. If someone steals my device, my company can remotely wipe good without affecting my device. I can use apple' find my iPhone service to wipe my device as well - I actually did this once. Citirx does not require anything to be wiped or deleted only that my password be changed or deleted on the corporate server.

The bottom line is that there is no longer anything special about a corporate issued device other than spyware being installed as mentioned by richdmoore. If you have your device password protected which my company requires, then you are fairly safe since the bad people would need to hack into your device and know your corporate password. My company forces me to change my corporate password every 90 days, but the password to the phone and the second password to Good are up to me. When connecting to server through Citirx we have Duo (another app I downloaded) to handle a second factor authentication.

At this point there is no additional security risk between a BYOD device and a company issued device. And my company gives me a stipen for my BYOD devices. If they did this for my laptop, I would drop the company issued laptop so fast, heads would spin.
 
are people still using desktop apps in 2015 at work, besides Office and maybe a few legacy apps? Many line of business apps have converted to web applications, and new apps are being built as web apps. Why? Because they run on anything.

Operating system wars are over in the Enterprise, for desktops. The web won.


Say, you work at IBM. It probably has some perks working there, depending on your role. Would you expect to get just any machine, as long as it gets you online? Even if you can do 2/3 of your work with a web app, you don't want to be depended of that.

Also, I see how most people like tablets and cheap laptops and what not, but most people don't work at a computer company.
 
Tools have zero to do with the culture of a company, I work for a tech company in the valley that's constantly in the top 3 of best places to work and they focus heavily on their "culture". But not once do we ever or have we ever focused on the tools you use to send frigin emails. People are people there's no differences from those using one over the other in the most but it would appear a small set of one group has much more arrogance.
You basically repeated the same after not reading (or not understanding) what I wrote. Clearly, I wasted my time (another observation).
 
At this point there is no additional security risk between a BYOD device and a company issued device. And my company gives me a stipen for my BYOD devices. If they did this for my laptop, I would drop the company issued laptop so fast, heads would spin.

There absolutely is additional security risk. Tons of it. How do you confiscate someone's personal computer if they're doing something against policy, or worse? Like stealing customer data, saving data off that shouldn't be - even if these options are not allowed within certain environments, there's always screenshots... Perhaps you don't work in a regulated field... But I do. These things are massive concerns.

And I'd imagine you're quite savvy with computers... Most people, however, are not. They're there to push buttons and follow a written procedure without ever exercising the muscle in their head. They'd be at risk of bringing in spyware or key loggers to steal company data, especially in a web app, virtualized environment... Companies really do gotta plan for the lowest common denominator.
 
You basically repeated the same after not reading (or not understanding) what I wrote. Clearly, I wasted my time (another observation).

Yes, you are wasting your time. I did read it, but I happily dismissed "everything" you said as total twaddle. I've already explained to you having worked for some of the largest companies in the world who do actually have a thing about "culture" they truly don't care about the laptop you "choose" to use, it's just not considered a culture thing, it's simply a productivity tool. If you can't or choose not to read and understand what I'm saying.... well, not much i can do about that. Maybe the links below will give you an insight as to what a company culture is, and how it's measured. However the next time i interview, i will check the chair for a porada label, or if the whole office has been issued Pininfarina Aresline Xten Chairs o_O

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_culture
http://www.greatplacetowork.com/best-companies/100-best-companies-to-work-for#sthash.UGRdBAJ3.dpbs
 
Different cultures do tend to use different tools and different kinds of people also. In reality, tools have everything to do with culture.


Uhmm, no. That is not what culture would be. Actually, you are the one linking things together in some strange way. Culture influences tools and tools influence culture. Also, people using PCs in general are indeed different from those using Macs. Why would people buy Macs otherwise? If we agree that there are differences, then certainly from a certain perspective, one type of people is better than the other. Of course, this shouldn't be construed (like you are doing) as being a better person. There's nothing arrogant to think that someone is smarter, if they are, and that doesn't make them a better person, just a smarter one.

Pass that joint, would ya?
 
Enterprise deals of this volume get a massive discount. If bet they are getting anywhere from 30% to 50% off retail price and even below wholesale. I bet they are running BootVsmp or Parallels.

50% under retail means Apple loses money on any sale. It's a nice big deal, but not that big that it would reduce Apple's production cost. Plenty of companies in the UK have a deal where employees get 6% rebate on many Apple products, so I assume getting a 6% rebate is not difficult. 30%? I doubt it.
 
I bet they are running BootVsmp or Parallels.
Nope

1). IBM will not pay for any virtualisation software for Mac so you can access a windows desktop. It's explicitly stated that if you need to run Windows you should go for the Thinkpad option
2) even if you pay for VMware or Parallels or boot directly (VMware seems to be the choice for the debs) getting a Pucka windows 7 business licence is very tricky. Very few game managed without spending hundreds $.
 
Office 2016 Mac, Metal, OS X is stable and ready for work. I think this is good news for the Macbook line for consumers. Apple will have to strongly consider to refreshing the aging 2012 Mainstream 13" Macbook Pro. It has replaceable Memory and HD with enough common IO ports for work.
 
It would be interesting to see how many of these devices are dual boot... i know a good % of former colleagues were already using mac. It's a win win for everyone, MS still get their pound of flesh, IBM move away from thinkpad and employees get a choice.
 
they want to buy the same computer you'd buy from apple.. just at a bulk rate..
Mostly. They may request a custom build (RAM size, storage size, maybe preload a specific software bundle), but overall, yes, it will be a real Mac, at Apple's usual level of quality, even if it's not a configuration you could order straight from Apple.

As a good example, my office buys a lot of Dell 1U rack systems. Although they are sold as servers, we are using them as testbeds for our software, not to run server software. (We selected them because the 1U form factor allows us to cram a lot of them into a small space.) As such, we have them shipped with a relatively small hard drive (320GB), a lot of RAM (64GB, since each one hosts 16 virtual machines), 10 Ethernet ports, and with nothing (not even the OS) preloaded on the hard drive (we install our own private build.) We had a few meetings with a Dell sales rep, discussed out needs, agreed on the system specs, and got a price.

If you try to go to Dell's web site, however, you can't order this configuration. They require you to get larger hard drives, you must have an OS (Windows or Linux) preloaded, along with a few other features we don't require.

So it wouldn't surprise me if IBM's IT people meet with Apple's people and discuss what can really be configured/installed (vs. what the web site lets you order). They will negotiate a configuration and pricing and will sign a contract. The systems they order will probably look like any other Mac from the outside, but they will probably have a private model number corresponding to the negotiated configuration.
Now that Microsoft is changing the user experience anyway, might as well retrain on something with known good features and benefits.
This is a major point for a lot of IT departments.

One of the reasons for sticking with Windows for all these years is that IT department and users want to stick with what they know. They don't want a system upgrade to involve a massive learning curve.

If Microsoft is changing Windows so much that sticking with them will involve a lot of reeducation, then their customers are no longer going to have that argument against switching to something else.
I am still waiting for the day that companies extend BYOD to the laptop. There really is no need for companies to invest in the laptops anymore than they need to invest in phones. Let employees bring there own and they will be happier.
So you say.

If I was to bring my laptop to work and attach it to the corporate LAN (or even just copy company documents to it), then it would have to be made to comply with our IT security policy. This would mean encrypting the hard drive, giving the IT department the recovery key for it, installing/configuring software auditing (with all logs being sent to the IT department on a schedule), mandating the corporate proxy server for all web traffic, configuring the firewall so there is no internet access other than through the corporate gateway (when directly connected) or through their VPN (when away from the corporate LAN.)

There are tons of things that they mandate for their own computers, which would be mandatory for any personal system allowed on the LAN. There is no way I would ever want to install that on my home computer.

I don't think it's reasonable for them to relax their security policies. I think it is completely correct that they issue me a computer to use for my job and that they assume all responsibility for it complying with their security policies.
This probably is the main argument. Quality will pay in the long run. I work with governance of IT and to me it's a mystery why large corporations mess around with Win clients when there are alternatives that are way more cost effective.
Well, one major cost of switching (from anything to anything else) is the cost of training users for the new platform. Until Microsoft started making radical changes to their UI, training costs for sticking with Windows were close to zero, while training to switch would be substantial. Today, the costs to upgrade to the new Windows is as high as the cost to switch to Mac OS X. And companies won't be able to just stick with Windows 7 forever, because MS will stop supporting it in a few years, just like they did with XP.

Additionally, there are often critical apps that the corporation relies on. They may not exist on the Mac platform, or the Mac version may be different enough that it is a problem. For instance, where I work, I need to run Microsoft Visio, which only exists for Windows. Many managers need MS Project, which is also Windows-only. Those who are using Macs must access these apps via virtual machines or by logging into a Citrix server, which is pretty inconvenient.

And then there is the fact that supporting two systems (any two) means additional support costs. Even if the cost of adding Mac support is low, it won't be zero. You'll need people trained in Mac support in your IT department, which is a cost that wouldn't exist if you were Windows-only.

In many cases, the advantages of using Macs outweighs these costs, but not always. Although I sometimes disagree with corporate IT decisions, I can usually understand the reasons they give.
I used to work for a very large media company. The whole company worked off crap Dell PCs. They were slow. Very slow. And very crap.

Then they decided a couple of years ago to ditch all the PCs and kit out the whole place with iMacs and MacBooks. And they're just a slow. And crap. (but they look nice)
If your IT department is going to specify hardware incapable of running the apps you need to get your work done, then the result will suck. PC vs. Mac really doesn't matter under such conditions.
The main problem is the way main RAM is soldered on more and more machines. My guess is that IBM - or any other company - would want increased RAM at a significant discount.
Soldered-down RAM is not a big deal as long as the corporate IT department specifies that the systems have enough installed to run the corporate-standard software suite, and to deal with growing requirements during the time it is in service (usually 3-5 years, depending on company policy.)

As for pricing, they're not going to quibble over the price of RAM upgrades. They're going to spec out an entire system in 2-3 configurations and get price quotes for the entire bundle. And when you're planning to order 150K+ systems every year, everything is negotiable.
IBM would likely not buy these direct from Apple. They would go through their contracted suppliers like all other equipment orders. For example they would buy through CDW.
Maybe, maybe not. When you're ordering custom configurations, there's really no purpose going through a middleman, who will just charge extra money to do nothing more than change the shipping label.

Where I work (not IBM, but another very big corporation,) we've got an elaborate purchasing system for office supplies and all kinds of other similar stuff, but for our PCs, they are ordered directly from HP (one of 6 specially negotiated configurations - 3 desktop models and 3 laptop models.)
... Supposedly, when Steve came back, some say Steve accused IBM that the IBM-Apple partnership was in fact a plan for IBM to destroy Apple from the beginning. ... Steve's comeback was first with the iMac to out fashion IBM. Then he wanted anything IBM out of the Mac. This lead to the Intel processor switch and the head spinning switch of OS X to the Intel instruction set.
Could you please cite a source (with a link, if possible) for this. I've never heard this story before, and I was watching the news very carefully while all these events were supposedly happening.

According to news reports and Apple statements at press events, they switched from PPC to x86 because IBM refused to develop higher performance PPC chips. They were focusing all their efforts on big iron processor subsystems (POWER5, POWER6, etc.) and would not develop smaller chips without being paid for all the R&D work. Sony paid that money and got the Cell processor (used in the PlayStation 3).

Apple didn't want to and started looking for another CPU supplier. When Jobs found out that some developers were working on a PC port of Mac OS X as a personal project, he decided to take the company in that direction, and switched over Mac hardware when the OS was stable enough to make it possible.

I'm sure Steve never liked IBM, but I really doubt the switch was due to a personal grudge. There were very strong technical and business reasons for switching, which would've been valid no matter who the personalities were.
I downloaded two apps from the App Store -- Good and Citrix. Both are self contained and cannot spy on anything else going on in my phone/iPad. If someone steals my device, my company can remotely wipe good without affecting my device. I can use apple' find my iPhone service to wipe my device as well - I actually did this once. Citirx does not require anything to be wiped or deleted only that my password be changed or deleted on the corporate server.
Citrix has been advertising this line for decades. Their products work well, up to a point. But there is a significant performance hit in running everything remotely over a VPN/remote-desktop link. You need a much more powerful computer and a very fast network connection (which may be hard to get when users are telecommuting) in order for performance to be acceptable.
That was on the consumer line of laptops not the T series.
You must be more trusting than me.

A Chinese corporation is caught red-handed installing spyware on thousands of consumer laptops, and you're willing to trust them when they say they're not doing it on the other products they ship?
 
The elephant in the room thats not been discussed (excluding that most of these devices will no doubt be running windows) is that this potentially has a huge impact on the used market for mac devices - and not in a good way.
 
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As a good example, my office buys a lot of Dell 1U rack systems. Although they are sold as servers, we are using them as testbeds for our software, not to run server software. (We selected them because the 1U form factor allows us to cram a lot of them into a small space.) As such, we have them shipped with a relatively small hard drive (320GB), a lot of RAM (64GB, since each one hosts 16 virtual machines), 10 Ethernet ports, and with nothing (not even the OS) preloaded on the hard drive (we install our own private build.) We had a few meetings with a Dell sales rep, discussed out needs, agreed on the system specs, and got a price.

If you try to go to Dell's web site, however, you can't order this configuration. They require you to get larger hard drives, you must have an OS (Windows or Linux) preloaded, along with a few other features we don't require.

How many is a lot?

What model poweredge? How many drives do they have?
 
If their relationship keeps like this maybe we'll get IBM rackmount servers with OS X Server as an offering. That would be nice.

One thing I'd like to see is a less expensive Mac lineup come out from them if possible. I know it's probably not going to happen but still, I can dream.

I'm talking a situation similar to how Jobs wanted Sony Viao to run OSX.
 
I wonder what they productivity is going to look like? Unless each app they use is accessible via browser, or they have XenApp for app virtualization, I do not see how a whole organization can move to a Mac OS and not feel constrained productivity wise. Time will tell I guess.
 
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