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Actually they would care, because they can't gain access to the one phone they kept asking for an disabling all security.That's the main goal. There are other way around this though without being forced... The FBI doesn't know that bit just yet...
 
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"Stop spreading false information", coming from you of all people? It is absolutely you who is trying to bamboozle people here. The FBI chief himself has clearly stated that he has many more phones that he wants to crack in the same way. If you think he was lying, tell us about it.

Regarding your technical question, hoping that it isn't too complicated for you: The App Store transmits an application to your phone, together with a receipt. The receipt contains cryptographically signed information about the AppleID of the purchaser. The software on the phone only installs the software if the AppleID in the receipt agrees with the AppleID of the phone in question.

Installing firmware works in a completely different way. An iPhone accepts new firmware if the firmware is signed by Apple's signing key, making sure that the firmware comes from Apple and not from some random hacker. Since Apple makes all the firmware that it creates available to all phones, the existing software on the iPhone that installs firmware has no provisions whatsoever to check if that firmware is meant for this particular phone; it only checks that the firmware is signed by Apple.

Whether software can be installed or not is controlled by the software already on the phone. The software that installs apps has checks so the software can only be installed on one phone. The software that installs firmware has no such checks.
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How can they be forced? The FBI tries to force them to do something because of a crime that has happened. When Apple releases a new iOS version, nobody who has committed a crime is in the possession of that iOS version yet.
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It's not up to the FBI to decide.
More like preventive action.
 
If the court forces Apple to do this and Apple declines, what would be the punishment? a fine. Apple should just pay the fine.

That would be grounds for the government to break up Apple. As much as folks love seeing Apple give the man the finger and defend privacy, if they lose this case and still refuse after exhausting appeals, they are signing Apple's death certificate as a company. That won't happen.
 
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Moot point as Apple is not going to lose this case.

But there's also nothing the court can do if these employees simply resign and no longer work for Apple at that point.
Apple is rumored to be very close to the Clinton's. As such they're sure to get out of this in a most convenient way. Even the government can't outsmart Hillary.
 
What's worse .... working with the FBI and caving in to security u've done all your life with a product with one swift kick up the ***, or quitting your job (basically the same thing as going on strike, except no one comes back)??

I know i would just quit cold turkey.
 
Ironic the FBI use the term "Fidelity Bravery Integrity" yeah right as long as it's on their terms and conditions, no matter if it it's illegal under the US Constitution. They could write software which just has a boot screen and says something "Gotcha".
 
This dog and pony show gets better by the day. It's smoke and mirrors on both sides of this story.

Hussein has spent years slowly ruining everything he touches, as such he's created a permissive unruly environment ripe for knock down drag out fights like this one. By day he instigates, at night he's served popcorn and a beverage while watching the news and laughing at those whose lives he's damaged.

Such nonsense.
 
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So... if Apple loses the court case and orders its engineers to unlock the devices, and they refuse... fire them.
If you mean this as an act of avoidance, it's not as simple as that. In addition to the sanctions mentioned earlier in the thread, Apple could face conspiracy charges. Apple Inc (officers) is being forced to compel, not employees.

If Apple even has the appearance of acting in a *wink,wink,nod,nod* maneuver of avoidance by shuffling employees to different positions and not firing insubordinates, the same could apply.
 
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"Stop spreading false information", coming from you of all people? It is absolutely you who is trying to bamboozle people here. The FBI chief himself has clearly stated that he has many more phones that he wants to crack in the same way. If you think he was lying, tell us about it.

Regarding your technical question, hoping that it isn't too complicated for you: The App Store transmits an application to your phone, together with a receipt. The receipt contains cryptographically signed information about the AppleID of the purchaser. The software on the phone only installs the software if the AppleID in the receipt agrees with the AppleID of the phone in question.

Installing firmware works in a completely different way. An iPhone accepts new firmware if the firmware is signed by Apple's signing key, making sure that the firmware comes from Apple and not from some random hacker. Since Apple makes all the firmware that it creates available to all phones, the existing software on the iPhone that installs firmware has no provisions whatsoever to check if that firmware is meant for this particular phone; it only checks that the firmware is signed by Apple.

Whether software can be installed or not is controlled by the software already on the phone. The software that installs apps has checks so the software can only be installed on one phone. The software that installs firmware has no such checks.

Yes the FBI wants to use the backdoor on other phones but they don't get to do that just because they say so. They need a judge to OK it first. So all the other iphones that they want to search will have their own search warrant. This current court order doesn't cover ALL iphones.

Yes iOS only checks for Apples digital signiture _now_ but you seem to think Apple can't add additional checks to the backdoor so it can only work on one iPhone with a specific ID. If the FBI or hackers try to modify the backdoor for other iPhone IDs, the digital signiture won't be valid anymore.
 
So if corporations are people, and people go to jail when they are in contempt of a court order ... who goes to jail?
Corporations are not people, but they still have free speech rights.
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I knew that would happen, These guys are heroic. Apple and it's employees are literally at gunpoint to produce x because the government wants it. What the hell is happening in The Land of the Free...
I really can't see Apple being forced to destroy their product for the benefit of the FBI. But it it were there should be a $100M fee to do so.
 
It's not just about that one phone. The Atlantic already reported that court documents show it's about at least 12 phones. Then after that, surely the floodgates would be opened.

If Apple complies with this, they tacitly set a precedent. Then, every agency (NSA, CIA, every other government in the world and all their agencies, etc.) will come clamoring to have things unlocked.

So Apple will then have to leave backdoors in their phones in order to continue being able to comply ... they simply can't keep making unbreakable phones, then wasting tons of time finding a way to break it, over and over again.

If they leave a backdoor then hackers will find it and nobody's phones will be safe. You'll plug your iPhone in a charger in a Chinese hotel and it will be owned. Etc. Defense contractors' phones will get owned, China will steal yet more secrets; terrorists will hack airline pilots phones and be able to impersonate them and hijack planes; hackers will get into nuclear facilities through compromised devices.

We just can't have insecure phones. This is where I store my heartbeat, my sleep cycles, my wallet, my most personal notes, logins to all my social media accounts that could be used to ruin my reputation; I would not dare trust it if I knew there was even a chance of it having a back door.

The price of having privacy in society is the risk that criminals or terrorists may use that privacy to conceal their activities. I'm willing to pay that price; it's the price of freedom.

Those brave soldiers who fight to protect our freedom are fighting to protect this: our right to privacy and individuality and freedom from constant surveillance.

If we give up that, then the terrorists have already won.
Preach!
 
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Uhhhhhh...

That's a bit extreme

Not really. Obama has committed so many crimes against Americans, and so many atrocious crimes against other countries’ populations. He’s a mass murderer, he’s a terrorist, he’s war criminal, he’s a traitor. If you had committed a fraction of what Obama has, you would be locked away for life.

Corporations are not people, but they still have free speech rights.

I really can't see Apple being forced to destroy their product for the benefit of the FBI. But it it were there should be a $100M fee to do so.

Well technically, corporations are people. Not some inanimate object; they’re made-up of people.
 
Not really. Obama has committed so many crimes against Americans, and so many atrocious crimes against other countries’ populations. He’s a mass murderer, he’s a terrorist, he’s war criminal, he’s a traitor. If you had committed a fraction of what Obama has, you would be locked away for life.



Well technically, corporations are people. Not some inanimate object; they’re made-up of people.
You mind getting specific? What crimes specifically has Obama committed that isn't just a matter of difference in opinion for how the country should be managed and literally just freaking criminal?
 
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So... if Apple loses the court case and orders its engineers to unlock the devices, and they refuse... fire them.

Thus, YOU end up scr*wed, as these are all the engineers that you need working at Apple to develop the next security update, FOR YOUR iPhone, before it gets hacked with all of next year's newest exploits.

And they don't need to refuse. Apple has a very good vacation and leave-of-absence policy. The engineers can just take a vacation in the Caribbean for a year or two. Many can afford to do just that. "Hey boss, I'll do that OS anti-security hack when I get back in 2017/18. Or get a nice equal or better paying job at Google/Facebook/LinkedIn/startup/et.al.

FBI is trying to serve an order on Apple. Not on it's employees (who write the actual code). Loophole.
 
What about this ....

No employees quit, Apple (as a company) just movies offshore .... Millions would be lost in the U.S, but at least iPhones will stay secure if the FBI got their way....

Apple says "They agree to the order" but they do not agree behind closed doors....

I can already see Tim Cook's teeth chattering.
 
If the presiding judge is even only a moderately enlightened human being, who values the Constitution and his right to privacy, it shouldn't come to this, but there's always that unknown factor.

Not sure how the govt can commandeer ordinary citizens to help solve crimes. Not to obstruct is one thing but forced participation.....?

This article by Susan Crawford is a nice explanation perspective. https://backchannel.com/the-law-is-...-apple-rewrite-its-os-9ae60c3bbc7b#.3jppib9xd
As a Harvard Law Prof she should know her way around applicable law.
 
You mind getting specific? What crimes specifically has Obama committed that isn't just a matter of difference in opinion for how the country should be managed and literally just freaking criminal?

Would you like foreign or domestic?
 
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