If Apple is Ordered to Unlock iPhone for FBI, Some Engineers Might Refuse to Help

[8692574]

Moot point as Apple is not going to lose this case.

But there's also nothing the court can do if these employees simply resign and no longer work for Apple at that point.

Then who will develop the next iOS ? surely a new team will be made and then we are again at point 1.... so I don't really see any positive in a group of people resigning.

It's not like Apple can go ahead without developers / engineers .... why are they there in the first place? what good will it make Apple if they resigned?

 

[diipii]

I knew that would happen, These guys are heroic. Apple and it's employees are literally at gunpoint to produce x because the government wants it. What the hell is happening in The Land of the Free...

"it's employees are literally at gunpoint" is the key phrase, but from the dead-eyed Killer Fringe Brigade. Not the FBI.
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Should the FBI win its ongoing legal battle with Apple, resulting in the Cupertino company being ordered to unlock the iPhone 5c used by San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook, some Apple engineers may decide not to cooperate with law enforcement.

Apple employees who might be called on to help the FBI are already considering their actions should Apple lose the case, reports The New York Times, following interviews with half a dozen people involved in the development of mobile products and security at Apple.

Accessing the iPhone in question would require Apple to comply with an FBI request for a new version of iOS that would both bypass passcode restrictions on the device and allow the FBI to enter a passcode electronically instead of manually. Apple has said it will take six to ten engineers a period of two to four weeks to develop the new operating system.

Should Apple engineers decide not to develop the software the FBI is requesting, it could significantly delay the FBI's efforts to access the phone and it could result in legal consequences for those involved. As The New York Times points out, developing what Apple calls "GovtOS" would be difficult without the cooperation of key engineers, and Apple employees already have a solid idea who would be called on to help.
If Apple employees refuse to write the code for the software, Apple could potentially face hefty fines for non-compliance.

Apple will face off against the FBI in court next Tuesday, one day after the company's March 21 event that will see the debut of the 4-inch iPhone SE and the 9.7-inch iPad Pro. Both Apple and the FBI have previously submitted several briefs arguing their sides.

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: If Apple is Ordered to Unlock iPhone for FBI, Some Engineers Might Refuse to Help

This is The Teflon Cook deflecting responsibility onto others.

 

[stylinexpat]

I knew that would happen, These guys are heroic. Apple and it's employees are literally at gunpoint to produce x because the government wants it. What the hell is happening in The Land of the Free...

It was the Land of the Free but now it is turning more into a land that is run by communists. Apple is praying Trump does not get elected. He is bad news for Apple. Hopefully no one here votes for him. Better not vote then vote if worse comes to worst

 

[8692574]

It was the Land of the Free but now it is turning more into a land that is run by communists. Apple is praying Trump does not get elected. He is bad news for Apple. Hopefully no one here votes for him. Better not vote then vote if worse comes to worst

Or It may be time to relocate Apple so it does not have to follow American rules.... after all you only have to legally change the seat of the company, and the office can remain where they are.

 

[nicho]

Or It may be time to relocate Apple so it does not have to follow American rules.... after all you only have to legally change the seat of the company, and the office can remain where they are.

Move to China! That'll work well.

 

[stylinexpat]

Move to China! That'll work well.

Apple is listed and registered in America now. They also have stock shares listed in America. They would still face lawsuits from the government and fines. They are pretty much being pushed and blackmailed into doing what the government wants or to suffer the consequences if not.

 

[Shirasaki]

Government is never to be trusted. It's a human nature to want power to control others. They tend to abuse their power.

So could I just say this is human's fault? :/

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

The bad thing about this reminds me of a quote by Benjamin Franklin:
"Surely we must all hang together or assuredly, we will hang separately" (after signing the Declaration of Independence)

It may be better for these engineers to stay at Apple and have them be a shield, or else the government will come after them one by one.

(another quote, from Atlas Shrugged):
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kinds of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted—and you create a nation of lawbreakers—and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

I have a feeling that these engineers are guilty of something... anything.
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TBH, I now see government as a bigger threat to my freedom than terrorists. My libertarian instincts were right all along...

When reading the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, you're in good company.

 

[thermodynamic]

Please remind these people that Apple has given source code to China, even for security reasons.

QZ, ZDNet, and other tech-related sites pointed out those inconvenient facts and I've posted those links enough times already for people not to be bothered with.

Now maybe these engineers are loyal to China and not the US?

 

[pat500000]

So could I just say this is human's fault? :/

I'm just saying there are people who want to control others.

 

[NY Guitarist]

Civil disobedience is powerful.

 

[DJ Dilbert]

The FBI says this is about one iPhone, but the terrorists destroyed two personal cell phones and removed the hard drive from a computer that has yet to be found. There is NOTHING of value on this particular iPhone. I believe the FBI made a case about it to establish a precedent for all iPhones.

This is exactly what I've been talking about. The FBI is purposely using fear to get their way. They can't stand not having absolute control. Which is not what they are supposed to be about. Between the way this Presidential race is going and the way our other governing bodies are being run, I am seriously afraid of what is going to happen. And it is not from religious extremist terrorists. It's more from our government, who are acting like dictators and terrorists on our own soil.

 

[rick3000]

My first thought when this story originally broke was, how do you enforce any order to create new software or intellectual property. It is an unenforceable order and the FBI cannot force compliance, short of putting a gun to the head of the engineer's, which would in essence be slavery.

EDIT: And if the FBI tried to get around Apple' engineer's quitting by attempting to obtain the source code and signing key (an entire new suit), every company in the US with any trade secrets (basically every company, not just tech) would stand with Apple against the government.

 

[Shirasaki]

I'm just saying there are people who want to control others.

Oh, OK. It is obvious that I improperly expand your word to cover more. My fault. Sorry.

 

[DJ Dilbert]

"If you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to hide", says Obama as he checks the messages on his specially-encrypted General Dynamics phone.

If the government is not doing anything wrong, whey do they hide? Why do they encrypt files and access to them?

#rhetorical

 

[rdowns]

Please remind these people that Apple has given source code to China, even for security reasons.

QZ, ZDNet, and other tech-related sites pointed out those inconvenient facts and I've posted those links enough times already for people not to be bothered with.

Now maybe these engineers are loyal to China and not the US?

“Contrary to the government’s misleading statistics, which had to do with lawful process and did not compel the creation of software that undermines the security of its users, Apple has never built a back door of any kind into iOS, or otherwise made data stored on the iPhone or in iCloud more technically accessible to any country’s government,” Apple writes in a filing Tuesday with federal court.

Apple also says it uses the same security protocols everywhere in the world. It has never worked with any government agency from any country to create a back door to any of its products or services, or provided any government with its proprietary source code for the iOS mobile operating system.

“We believe any such access is too dangerous to allow,” Apple software chief Craig Federighi said in a court filing.

http://recode.net/2016/03/15/apple-...clear-its-not-making-accommodations-to-china/

 

[AdonisSMU]

Your Race Card® expired in 2010. One thing, would be his illegally spying on over 100,000,000 Americans daily. And from the start of Obama’s presidency, he has continued and expanded Bush’s illegal spying programs worse than what Bush did. Another thing, from the very start of Obama’s presidency, he has been committing treason by intentionally withholding the 28 pages on foreign government(s) involvement in the 9/11 attacks. Not only has he continued to protect 9/11 co-conspirators, he has conspired with those very 9/11 co-conspirators in arming terrorists in Syria to attempt an overthrow of the legitimate Syrian government (a government that has not attacked the U.S. or even threatened to). That is treason x2. Something else, Obama has continued and expanded by at least 10x the extrajudicial mass murder drone program, that has killed over 90% civilians, thousands of civilians, and resulted in the murdering of at least four American citizens including an American teenager. Obama deserves to be in ADX Florence for life, with other terrorists and anti-American traitors, for those and many other crimes he also has committed.

Congress agrees with all these things and in many cases they wanted him to go further than what he has. I am in agreement that these should be offenses that warrant impeachment of Obama and indictments of those in the various agencies who are in high levels at various agencies within our government as well. So.... I guess we are in agreement on these counts. So on substance I guess we agree so i'll put my race card back in pocket for now.

I've never gotten this answer before when someone brought up they thought Obama should be impeached...as its the only reason i'd agree with impeachment. I guess there is a first and last time for everything.

 

[DJ Dilbert]

It could be... But iOS 9.3 isn't installed on already owned by FBI iPhones....

True, they could then comply if ordered to and unlock this one phone. The FBI could then do what they are planning and unlock everything else they have in their possession. But all future devices with the new iOS would then be invulnerable to the "key" that they would have to make.

 

[pooleman]

This is exactly what I've been talking about. The FBI is purposely using fear to get their way. They can't stand not having absolute control. Which is not what they are supposed to be about. Between the way this Presidential race is going and the way our other governing bodies are being run, I am seriously afraid of what is going to happen. And it is not from religious extremist terrorists. It's more from our government, who are acting like dictators and terrorists on our own soil.

You have much more to fear from the terrorists. The government probably isn't going to cut your head off, kill your wife, and take your daughter as a sex slave. The government is out of control, that I agree, but worse than ISIS and other terrorist groups? No way.

 

[Orlandoech]

I knew that would happen, These guys are heroic. Apple and it's employees are literally at gunpoint to produce x because the government wants it. What the hell is happening in The Land of the Free...

While I agree, they literally are not at gun point by the FBI. Your usage of literally, is literally incorrect.

 

[DJ Dilbert]

NOBODY is asking for EVERY iPhone to have a back door, plain and simple, and anyone who says otherwise is either lying or has no clue of the scope of the legal requests here. Apple has the technology and the security to comply with this request, and they should. Let the FBI investigate into this one phone, per the court order. Yes, there may be more requests for access to different phones in future law enforcement investigations, how could one not think there would not be? But each of those would have to go through the same legal safeguards of a warrant and court order before anyone could access those individual phones.

It's cute that you really think that they will stop there.

 

[Orlandoech]

This damn government, they have no idea who is coming over the border, terrorist or seasonal worker, and they really don't care, but they must have the info on this phone for the safety of the nation. Privacy and security for everyone be damned.

Someone who gets it. They let in more illegals and give more green cards than anyone in the world and do not care for a solution but want to infringe upon American Citizens privacy in the name of national security. All these pathetic fools need to be out of office.
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It's cute that you really think that they will stop there.

It is cute... stupid and rather ignorant for anyone to think like he is. Some sheeple, can't help themselves, so they rely on government, so they will obey their God.

 

[phillipduran]

I knew that would happen, These guys are heroic. Apple and it's employees are literally at gunpoint to produce x because the government wants it. What the hell is happening in The Land of the Free...

All the chuckleheads that grew up watching hollywood spy movies are now in positions of authority and pull their perception of their power from TV instead of the law.

Were from the government, you have to do what we say.

 

[maxsix]

Not really. Obama has committed so many crimes against Americans, and so many atrocious crimes against other countries’ populations. He’s a mass murderer, he’s a terrorist, he’s war criminal, he’s a traitor. If you had committed a fraction of what Obama has, you would be locked away for life.

You've summed it up quite accurately.

 

[phillipduran]

TBH, I now see government as a bigger threat to my freedom than terrorists. My libertarian instincts were right all along...

That's really an issue that is on a lot of peoples minds and I agree. I don't worry much about the rare , I worry about my government. That's the entity I fear. Terrorists are going to do crap I cant fight against. The government though, they have the potential to subversively do so much more harm that any terror organization.

Governments these days are not even pretending they are on the side of people any more. And then they wonder why political systems are disintegrating. Time for direct democracy, Switzerland style.
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You know, in the same way that the government drags its feet when they don't want to do something... Oh, wait, they don't think the rules apply to them. Time for a second American Revolution.

I think these feelings are in part why Trump has seen much success. People are so tired of the political direction we have been going that Trump is like the USA version of a political Arab Spring. Although Trump is on record siding with the government on this encryption topic.