If nothing good comes on the 15th...

[iBlue]

...
I'll shut up now as i suspect that this thread will be locked for expressing the view that there might be life outside Apple

That isn't the reason you got the responses you did. It was the implication that you'd stomp off if you didn't get your way. There's plenty of Apple aversion here but if it's not expressed in a temper-tantrum style, it usually goes over better. People can overreact though in both ways.

Untwist thy panties, ye heathens!

 

[Blogger]

Oh dear, the "hackintosh" as a viable alternative strikes again. If you are indeed doing what you say you are with your computer, you will be sadly disappointed and waste a lot of money.

Good luck with it.

 

[MacHiavelli]

Windows gives me the same pleasure as scooping my eyes out with a spoon and putting it in a blender.

You know, I'm waiting to switch to Apple mainly because I want to try something new. But day after day I switch on my XP machine and it runs all day long without a glitch: using Office, surfing the net, listening to Media Player and iTunes, using databases, blogging, watching video streams from the BBC and others, doing some amateur graphic and video editing. Windows crashes once in a blue moon. Most of the time it just works.

 

[irishgrizzly]

I haven't replied, because i've been sleeping. I didn;t know there was a minimum post requirement I had to reply too.

I'm not trolling - i'm putting forward the blasphemous view that maybe Apple Macs aren't all that and a bag of chips. At least where their hardware is concerned. I've played around with leopard for a couple of weeks and i really like it, i do, but Is it worth having to spend an extra £600 on a system that will run it? (The words hackintosh are springing to mind) maybe thats the answer. Dual booting XP and OS X.

I'll shut up now as i suspect that this thread will be locked for expressing the view that there might be life outside Apple

It may be difficult to give one catch-all reason to use osx – in my case it's because in my work, design, it's an industry standard. On a personal level I like the simplicity of using an os that doesn't eat up my time fighting viruses.

 

[fluidedge]

i have to say, i can't remember the last time XP crashed on me.

There is also stuff called Anti-Virus software. It's quite a new concept. Don't know if you've heard of it

 

[fernmeister]

...I'm going back to Windows.

- What reason is there to stay with Apple? Convince me!

No reason. From your posts on this thread it seems you like XP, it will run the apps you need and you'll get to save some money.

Go with Windows.

 

[themoonisdown09]

i have to say, i can't remember the last time XP crashed on me.

There is also stuff called Anti-Virus software. It's quite a new concept. Don't know if you've heard of it

XP hasn't really crashed, it just goes stupidly slow because of all the trash that gets put in it by software, etc. Also, about the anti-virus software, who wants to pay an anual fee to keep viruses off your computer? Who wants to have another service running in the background to bog your computer down? Not me.

By the way, I have to use XP at the office, I hate almost every minute of it.

 

[Octobot]

Ya.. if your looking out the window.. then jump!

Even though the frequency of updates to the Mac Pro is ridiculous, I myself will never go back to windows.

 

[OnePumpChump]

I've been a Windows user since I've had computers. I've had nothing but problems all the time. I am finally looking for a change from all of the everyday problems, whether it's caused by windows itself or anti-virus programs or whatever the case may be from day to day. I just started using OSX at school and already notice a huge difference in performance and simplicity. Not trying to convince anyone, just my experience.

 

[RoadieJodie]

OSX on a generic PC won't bring you nearly as much stability or compatibility as a Mac Pro which is needed for advanced stuff a MP is used for over an iMac...

While this is true . . .

The OP has an excellent point.
I would love even a current gen MP, the price to tech difference is somewhat outrageous though.

I love all my Apple computers, but solely rely on my Windows based PC for memory / processor intensive applications.

I personally can't justify putting myself in deeper debt to fund a Semi - Professional hobby(matter of opinon), knowing that all the applications I use will run on a Windows based PC for a significantly less chunk of money.

(I really should put "I still love you Apple" in my sig to fight off fanboys. It's true I do still love my Macs, but does Apple really mean that much to people that those people would ignorantly stick up for a company and not express their mind? )

 

[Graphis]

Is it me, or has anyone else noticed that these people start these treads... AND NEVER REPLY BACK? To me, it's a form of trolling a forum.

I am reliably informed (I work in advertising and marketing) that a significant number of people who work for a number of differing computer and software manufacturers (other than Apple) are employed specifically to post on all the various Apple-related forums, extolling the virtues of Windoze Pc's, and dissing Apple, in an effort to persuade people to either switch from OSX/Apple to Windoze/PC, or to sway those who might be thinking of switching from PC to Mac, etc. It's a standard technique in so-called "viral marketing". These people are clearly employees of Dell or some other PC related company, and are PAID to start such threads. Don't waste your time on them. They may not convince the die-hard Apple fans to switch, but the overall effect of such threads has been demonstrated to sway the minds of visitors who are wavering in their decisions. It would be better if the moderaters actually banned such posts, as the forum is clearly called "MACrumors", and therefore all posts should be about Macs and Mac issues, not sneaky marketing attempts to thrust Windoze PC's under our noses under the fake camoflage of tapping into our fears by supposedly talking about MacWorld.

 

[jsw]

I am reliably informed (I work in advertising and marketing) that a significant number of people who work for a number of differing computer and software manufacturers (other than Apple) are employed specifically to post on all the various Apple-related forums, extolling the virtues of Windoze Pc's, and dissing Apple, in an effort to persuade people to either switch from OSX/Apple to Windoze/PC, or to sway those who might be thinking of switching from PC to Mac, etc.

We know about that. But, in general, we'd prefer to let people post who might be doing so for nefarious reasons than ban people who actually just don't like Apple.

Apple's not perfect, OS X isn't perfect, and we have no problem with people complaining. Our belief is that the overwhelming evidence is that Apple is a better choice for many consumers, and those for whom it is not a better choice shouldn't be swayed to buy Macs anyway.

Plus, all this recent massive Apple buying has caused QA and repair issues, so we're sort of hoping fewer people buy them for a bit.

 

[hugodrax]

...I'm going back to Windows.

I'm amazed Apple have not updated the MP for sometime now, they're still using 7 series nVidia cards for gods sake. If there is no big update at MW then i'm off.

I actually can't see any reason to stay with macs for my needs. I run animation software that runs better on XP64 bit, i can run Adobe CS3 and i can play DX10 games on a Quad Core system with a 8800GTX card that costs less than a low end iMac.

I can use Safari and iTunes on Windows.

Leopard is nice, but isn't all that "AMAZING" - What reason is there to stay with Apple? Convince me!

No. Get yourself a PC and have at it.

 

[Graphis]

We know about that. But, in general, we'd prefer to let people post who might be doing so for nefarious reasons than ban people who actually just don't like Apple.

Fair enough Maybe just give them their own sticky "whingers" (or should that be "WINgers"?) thread, and move all their posts there?

 

[fluidedge]

I am reliably informed (I work in advertising and marketing) that a significant number of people who work for a number of differing computer and software manufacturers (other than Apple) are employed specifically to post on all the various Apple-related forums, extolling the virtues of Windoze Pc's, and dissing Apple, in an effort to persuade people to either switch from OSX/Apple to Windoze/PC, or to sway those who might be thinking of switching from PC to Mac, etc. It's a standard technique in so-called "viral marketing". These people are clearly employees of Dell or some other PC related company, and are PAID to start such threads. Don't waste your time on them. They may not convince the die-hard Apple fans to switch, but the overall effect of such threads has been demonstrated to sway the minds of visitors who are wavering in their decisions. It would be better if the moderaters actually banned such posts, as the forum is clearly called "MACrumors", and therefore all posts should be about Macs and Mac issues, not sneaky marketing attempts to thrust Windoze PC's under our noses under the fake camoflage of tapping into our fears by supposedly talking about MacWorld.

yeh because with a 92% market share Microsoft really need to pay someone $10 an hour to sway a few dozen people to buy a PC??

 

[Umbongo]

yeh because with a 92% market share Microsoft really need to pay someone $10 an hour to sway a few dozen people to buy a PC??

You'd be suprised.

 

[Eric Piercey]

I am reliably informed (I work in advertising and marketing) that a significant number of people who work for a number of differing computer and software manufacturers (other than Apple) are employed specifically to post on all the various Apple-related forums, extolling the virtues of Windoze Pc's, and dissing Apple, in an effort to persuade people to either switch from OSX/Apple to Windoze/PC, or to sway those who might be thinking of switching from PC to Mac, etc. It's a standard technique in so-called "viral marketing". These people are clearly employees of Dell or some other PC related company, and are PAID to start such threads. Don't waste your time on them. They may not convince the die-hard Apple fans to switch, but the overall effect of such threads has been demonstrated to sway the minds of visitors who are wavering in their decisions. It would be better if the moderaters actually banned such posts, as the forum is clearly called "MACrumors", and therefore all posts should be about Macs and Mac issues, not sneaky marketing attempts to thrust Windoze PC's under our noses under the fake camoflage of tapping into our fears by supposedly talking about MacWorld.

First off, unlikely. Marketers for Dell have better things to do, seriously, than post troll posts. Secondly, I'm hardly worried that someone is going to come wave a PC under my nose and cause me to switch. If suddenly a PC is that great, bring it on! For those so ignorant as to jump back to PC because Apple didn't get them their "chocky milk," I genuinely hope they do go back to PC. Apple has suffered in quality since their aggressive campaign began to sweep the entire PC market. Not a lot mind you, but the old schoolers are definitely annoyed. I'm all for soaring stock prices, sure, even though I don't own any appl but it just seems like there's been a serious lack of TLC to the hardcore Mac users. In this way I sympathize with the frustration of the OP- but its going a tad overboard obviously to suggest leaving Apple just yet.

Fact is though, the Apple user base has shifted. Many of the user's are new to the platform and joined due to advertising, not an informed comparison. They don't know why either is better, and they don't care. They just know the Apple guy is cool and the PC guy is a silly silly. So yeah I'm a little frustrated with Apple too. If no update comes in Jan I'll be considerably more disgruntled as a user. There's no way I'm paying their current price for the current MP. They need to drop pricing at the very least to compensate for the outdated display options.

 

[Sir Pancakes]

First off, unlikely. Marketers for Dell have better things to do, seriously, than post troll posts.

Are you in the industry then? If you think you know more about this than someone in the industry you are terribly ignorant. We case studied this exact kind of marketing in business school last year. Its not like the Marketing execs making 100k are trolling forums. They hire college kids to do it, and it is an inexpensive way to influence their market.

 

[krunk]

I haven't replied, because i've been sleeping. I didn;t know there was a minimum post requirement I had to reply too.

I'm not trolling - i'm putting forward the blasphemous view that maybe Apple Macs aren't all that and a bag of chips. At least where their hardware is concerned. I've played around with leopard for a couple of weeks and i really like it, i do, but Is it worth having to spend an extra £600 on a system that will run it? (The words hackintosh are springing to mind) maybe thats the answer. Dual booting XP and OS X.

I'll shut up now as i suspect that this thread will be locked for expressing the view that there might be life outside Apple

The thing is, this is a preference choice. So no one can tell you if a mac is worth it to you except you. I can tell you why a mac is worth it to me and why.

Mac's are good about keeping up with hardware.....if you bow to their upgrade cycle. Let me explain. If you had bought a Mac Pro when they were first released, you'd have had the most powerful system available on the market for significantly less then anyone else was offering them (round about 1500+ less).

Even the most fanatic of hardware junkies usually hang onto a system for 1.5 to 2 years. With Apple, "getting in sync" means selling your old mac and buying a new on this schedule. Mac's have great resell value, so if your "in sync" upgrading will work out to only about a 700 dollar investment every 2 years, a bit more or a bit less.

Finally, if you absolutely NEED the latest and greatest vid card but not so much the massive power of a latest and greatest workstation you can upgrade every other cycle and buy the most recent windows vid card, put it in a secondary slot, and dual boot windows for games.

Soooo, let's assume your "in sync". All the following applies to why I buy mac workstations:

a) They're significantly cheaper
b) OSX and all the things it implies:
-) Little to zero worries about viruses and spyware
-) A UNIX subsystem, this is very important to me as a developer
-) iApps. They're really great and free. use them!
-) Free IDE to explore other development areas w/o a lot of investment
-) Dual boot to windows when I want to game.
-) No hassles with Activation and such when upgrading

Besides the video card (which you can install a latest and greatest if absolutely necessary and dual boot). Mac Pro's are, honestly, still pretty damned current. . . and low and behold, I guarantee an upgrade is on the horizon.

You may find that some or none of the reasons I give means squat. That you have no user preference for OSX over Windows (or vice versa). That you don't need the power of a workstation and the associated cost. That all you want/need is a real desktop (which apple doesn't make). Thus a windows machine that offers a consumer desktop model with a current vid card might suit you just fine.

If so, I don't see what the issue is. If you like windows, windows applications, don't mind paying 600 dollars for an office suite or using Org (ugh) when all you need to do is read/create .doc's, etc. Then go for it.

 

[ChrisA]

Leopard is nice, but isn't all that "AMAZING" - What reason is there to stay with Apple? Convince me!

Apple does have a serious problem. Their hardware lineup is very limited and their desktop lineup lacks a "mainstream" design. The one thing that most people want to buy is missing. That would be a mid sized tower at the (about) $1,000 price point. Apple simply chooses to ignore large segments of the market. My guess is because those segments are not as profitable.

The reason to stay with Apple is because of their software. Some software that I like only runs on Mac OS X.

 

[heatmiser]

Apple does have a serious problem. Their hardware lineup is very limited and their desktop lineup lacks a "mainstream" design. The one thing that most people want to buy is missing. That would be a mid sized tower at the (about) $1,000 price point. Apple simply chooses to ignore large segments of the market. My guess is because those segments are not as profitable.

The reason to stay with Apple is because of their software. Some software that I like only runs on Mac OS X.

Indeed. The MP is overpriced (for anyone, but particularly for normal users), and the Mini is an insult to anyone not devoted to OS X. The closest thing they have to a normal desktop is the iMac, but that's useless for people who wish to drive their own monitors, and don't take to Apple's procrustean design. It's why I stick with their laptops. That seems to be the only area where they've found a balance between price and hardware.

 

[fluidedge]

i have just been looking at the laptops. But i have a 12" ibook that is fine for when i'm on the road and want to use the internet and do some word processing etc.

I really want to get a desktop that i can use to run the high end apps i need.

I think i'm going to build myself a quad core system and run my apps on XP64 and use my old ibook (with 500mb of HD space left!!!) on the road/out of office hours. In fact i could seriously strip back the ibook (its a 30GB) have a couple gigs of music, take out Garageband, imovie, even iphoto (i don't use it much really - there are lighter image browsers for the mac that would do well) and keep it clean and snappy (its chugging along under the weight of so many apps atm)

*Sigh* - only it still doesn't solve the final cut problem. (i currently edit on a borrowed MBP) I guess i could learn to edit on Adobe Premiere. (Apparently a hackintosh is stable enough to run Final Cut, by all accounts...)

God i hope the 15th of January brings something good!!

Wishlist (any of):
- OS X supported on PCs rolleyes
- A price cut/major upgrade on the MP
- A new "...one more thing..." desktop tower product, just called 'Mac' (rename the iMac the "Mac Compact")

I fear the keynote will be:

-30 minutes on iTunes 8/Movie rentals/AppleTV 2 (US store only )
-20 minutes on iPhone 2
-2 minutes on Office2008 (welcome on that Roz MS woman, whatever her name was)
-40 minutes on this Super slim/MB/MBP/tablet no CD drive thingy

don't know why, but i suddenly feel really depressed at the prospect of MW

 

[ddavid]

Are Macs slowly dying?

I've been a Apple Computer user for many years and have owned just about every pro mac available. I have always paid a premium for this but wrote it off to better design, better software, better build quality, etc. I have been able to justify the added expense because I feel that I have been more productive and creative while using Macs. Lately, I am starting to question the high price of macs and their continued domination of the creative segment.

Today, if you purchase a mac computer of any flavor, you'll pay almost double what you would pay for a Windows machine. Sure, you get a more stable OS but now that you are running Intel hardware it's easier to see where you are paying higher prices. $600 for RAM that you can purchase for $100! Last years video card for premium prices!! $900 for a display that Dell sells for $550!? The term "gouging" comes to mind and frankly, I'm getting sick of it!

With the introduction of Intel macs we have had the ability to run Windows on our machines without difficulty. We have been able to use Windows applications alongside our OS X stuff for those programs that aren't available for Mac. Boot Camp allows us to run Windows, but how long before someone writes a simple program to allow OS X to run on regular Intel boxes? We could have our beloved OS X without all the over-priced, last-seasons-technology that Apple offers. Hell, we can do our own troubleshooting since Apple doesn't acknowledge conflict issues anyway, they simply deny, deny, deny, fix, making the customer feel like the problems are imagined. But I digress... Apple can make iPhones and iPods and software (remember BeOS?) and leave the hardware to others.

Don't get me wrong, I love using Macs. I am simply getting tired of being gouged and it has become even more apparent now that we are using the same hardware as Windows users. Apple needs to innovate or reduce their hardware costs to within 25% of Windows hardware. They are in danger of becoming a boutique company like Bang & Olufsen, making nothing more than cleverly designed appliances. I love well designed ergonomic devices but I don't want to pay double for last years technology.

David.

BTW, this is my first post. Hello.

 

[oban14]

I've been a Apple Computer user for many years and have owned just about every pro mac available. I have always paid a premium for this but wrote it off to better design, better software, better build quality, etc. I have been able to justify the added expense because I feel that I have been more productive and creative while using Macs. Lately, I am starting to question the high price of macs and their continued domination of the creative segment.

Today, if you purchase a mac computer of any flavor, you'll pay almost double what you would pay for a Windows machine. Sure, you get a more stable OS but now that you are running Intel hardware it's easier to see where you are paying higher prices. $600 for RAM that you can purchase for $100! Last years video card for premium prices!! $900 for a display that Dell sells for $550!? The term "gouging" comes to mind and frankly, I'm getting sick of it!

With the introduction of Intel macs we have had the ability to run Windows on our machines without difficulty. We have been able to use Windows applications alongside our OS X stuff for those programs that aren't available for Mac. Boot Camp allows us to run Windows, but how long before someone writes a simple program to allow OS X to run on regular Intel boxes? We could have our beloved OS X without all the over-priced, last-seasons-technology that Apple offers. Hell, we can do our own troubleshooting since Apple doesn't acknowledge conflict issues anyway, they simply deny, deny, deny, fix, making the customer feel like the problems are imagined. But I digress... Apple can make iPhones and iPods and software (remember BeOS?) and leave the hardware to others.

Don't get me wrong, I love using Macs. I am simply getting tired of being gouged and it has become even more apparent now that we are using the same hardware as Windows users. Apple needs to innovate or reduce their hardware costs to within 25% of Windows hardware. They are in danger of becoming a boutique company like Bang & Olufsen, making nothing more than cleverly designed appliances. I love well designed ergonomic devices but I don't want to pay double for last years technology.

David.

BTW, this is my first post. Hello.

This is my third post. Hi.

Even the mac fanbois I know think it's stupid to buy ram or hard drives from Apple. In fairness to Apple (and I have yet to switch), the Mac Pro was actually a deal in terms of hardware (except for upgrades like ram/hard drive) when it first came out. The problem is they're still charging the same price for technology that came out a few years ago. Even still, if you try to build the same machine at HP, the current Mac Pro price is reasonable.

Your best bet is to get the most stripped down mac you can and buy your own HD and ram elsewhere. Only suckers get ripped off on the BTO at Apple, or people so rich/in such a rush that it doesn't matter to them.

My reason for switching has as much to do with philosophical reasons as anything else. Apple isn't perfect in this respect - I hate DRM (will never purchase anything that uses it) and don't allow my computer or any software to connect to the internet without my permission. But it's become the lesser of two evils at this point.

 

[Gokhan]

k

i have used windows and well as osx for over 6 years now thats not too long for some people i know but 98 and xp gave me a few hassles but nothing major however os x really does come in to own on reliability and usability.

Its simple if you value cost then go with windows and be prepared to tinker with xp once in a while.

if you value usability and reliability then go with osx BUT people bare in mind osx is not without its faults , some things are just easier and quicker to do in windows.

I am in the same boat as everyone else i got offered a deal for a mac pro at a very good price but i refused to pay a little extra than was agreed because of the impending updates and plus the price was too close to a brand new one from apple but overall i think apple are slightly pushing it with thier basic prices although they are reasonable.

Upgrades ?? if people are scared to undo a few screws then they are the suckers to pay extra for upgrades and then bitch about this fact.

my 2 cents