If the 16" sucks SO bad...

[YaBe]

Some whine about the logo below the screen, some whine about whining about the logo below the screen. Should I start a new thread whining about that?

You should, after all, people should be entitled to their opinions.
Never understood this kinda thread, I mean, do we really need whining about whining? Apparently the OP think his whining is more useful than the whining about a bad product.

Or he simply believe people are not entitled to their opinion and are free to share, while he is free NOT to read post he does not like .

If whining thread makes you mad:
1) Don't read it

or

2) Don't comment it

or

3) Ignore it

and

4) Quit bitchin' about it and move on.

Nothing worse than someone who complains about something over and over but does nothing about it.

Let me tell you, I am glad you did something about it and showed those whiners, that'll teach them!! /s

 

[lambertjohn]

Complaining about the butterfly keyboard is what got us the new 16" MBP. I'm just saying, Apple reads these posts and takes our complaints to heart. For the record, I am perfectly fine with the butterfly keyboard but I'm sure the new one is a step in the right direction.

 

[ascender]

If whining thread makes you mad:
1) Don't read it

or

2) Don't comment it

or

3) Ignore it

and

4) Quit bitchin' about it and move on.

Let me tell you, I am glad you did something about it and showed those whiners, that'll teach them!! /s

The problem with your suggestions is that we may never have a reason to post in here if we did that! 😉

Although some of these threads are like when someone at work mistakingly hits "reply-to-all" on a distribution list with 1000s of members and then lots more people hit "reply-to-all" telling people to stop hitting "reply-to-all".

 

[Pepe4life]

It’s an expensive laptop so people have higher expectations for quality and performance.

 

[maflynn]

It’s an expensive laptop so people have higher expectations for quality and performance.

Its a double edge sword, Apple markets itself as a premium (actually the premium laptop on the market) and priced it accordingly. If you're going to market your machine as such, you better be sure to actually have a premium machine.

My personal opinion is that we have two types of threads (negative ones).
The first is whining threads, stating how awful the product is, or complaining about something. Yet, they're stating their opinion which they are free to do.
The second is people posting about problems and sadly there has been quite a bit of these posts for the 16" MBP.

I think the first is not productive, but people are free to post their opinions of apple and its products both for and against.

The second is useful, as it allows others to discuss the issue, communicate to prospective buyers of potential issues, and discuss potential solutions. A side benefit is that if enough people complain, apple reacts take the butterfly keyboard - although the class action suit may also have motivated apple to action.

The bottom line is posting negative content shouldn't be dissuaded, either because they're posting personal opinions or because they're looking for help, or discussing an issue

 

[csjcsj]

After reading all the complaints here, I became worried about my new 16” - it got very hot and made a slight noise. So I made an appointment at the Apple store & brought it in. Their diagnostics tool told me nothing was wrong.

The areas around the Touch Bar where it gets very hot is right over the graphics stuff, so when I use an external monitor and/or graphics intensive software it gets hot. When it gets hot, the fan revs up, so the noise is normal. So instead of just complaining about the faulty design, take it in to the store & find out if something is wrong or you are just being a technology hypochondriac.

 

[revmacian]

Stop praising a company that's been making gross errors to their pro-line for the past 4 years. When brands like MSI/Razer make better high-end laptops, people should complain.
I'd love for Apple to release a pro laptop worth buying, they haven't. Bad keyboard, PWM dimming, not even close to Adobe RGB screens... it's been a sick joke. The only thing going for it, is its OS, and that hasn't exactly improved greatly either. Luckily for Apple, the masses who all started buying pro laptops hardly notice, which gives free reign in making even worse decisions.

You and your post, are part of the problem.

I think it's the spoiled, ungrateful people who suffer from entitlement syndrome that are the problem. I'm hearing impaired and I make less than minimum wage - it's very difficult for a deaf person to get a job in this area. It takes me almost two years to save up for a base model MacBook Air. I spent 20 years using nothing but Linux (a free OS) on borrowed or donated desktop machines, so I don't know Windows well enough to use it efficiently. And there is no Android phone that works together with a Windows OS as efficiently and seamlessly as iPhones work with MacBooks.

Do Apple products have problems? Yes, I'll acknowledge that. Do any of those problems cause the Apple products to fail so badly that I can't use them? No, not in my 7 years of experience with Apple products. My MacBook Air and iPhone XR work together so seamlessly that I'm grateful to have them. And, the problems that come along with these products or their operating systems don't outweigh their usefulness.

I feel really sad for the spoiled, ungrateful people who suffer from entitlement syndrome.. they'll never understand happiness or gratitude.

 

[YaBe]

The problem with your suggestions is that we may never have a reason to post in here if we did that! 😉

Although some of these threads are like when someone at work mistakingly hits "reply-to-all" on a distribution list with 1000s of members and then lots more people hit "reply-to-all" telling people to stop hitting "reply-to-all".

We would probably have less bitching about bitching, and I would be OK about it .

I am not against people complaining about a product fault.

 

[Mr Screech]

...

This has nothing to do with entitlement, so I'm not sure why you went down that road. Also not sure what you're doing in the macbook pro forums if you don't have or use them...

Believe it or not, most of us want Apple to succeed. But if their pro laptops are lacking in nearly every department they need to get harsh feedback in the hopes it reaches them, forcing them to fix it in the next iteration. This brand used to be lauded for their audio/video performance, it's one of the big factors shaping their PR image in the 90s. I'd rather see them make a 5-10K laptop with everything done right, then a 3K laptop with mediocrity written all over it.

 

[revmacian]

This has nothing to do with entitlement,

Denial, a classic symptom of entitlement.

Also not sure what you're doing in the macbook pro forums if you don't have or use them...

Who said I didn't have or use them? You're making assumptions.. really bad ones. Perhaps it would benefit you to come to the realization that you don't know everything? I never said I don't have or use them, not sure where you got that from, I said it takes a while to save up for them.

But if their pro laptops are lacking in nearly every department

You completely missed the point of my post. I suppose I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

 

[Bandaman]

It finally has the ridiculous amount of SSD storage I’ve always wanted on a laptop.

 

[jinnyman]

There is simply no complaints comparable to what we saw when '16 model came out. This is so peaceful and quite. Try to remember 2016.

 

[49erRedGold]

The butterfly keyboard IS unreliable and the touch bar was a solution where no problem existed.

Absolutely disagree here. I've been an exclusive Mac user for the past 25 years. The function keys were so boring to use. Nothing different year after year. The Exposé buttons, volume and brightness is all it every really did. It got to a point where I just ignored all but the volume buttons. Touch screens started penetrating the market on Windows machines and they are as useless as a dead mouse. There's nothing that can be done touching the screen that can't be done on the trackpad. Just a stupid gimmick. Apple had to answer that and IMO the Touch Bar makes the most sense. I love how it changes functions based on the application I'm using. Several functions that would normally require me to drill down through contextual menus are easily accessible via the Touch Bar.

I will easily predict in the next 24 months Windows laptop manufacturers will begin to add Touch Bars to their machines. It's only because it's Apple that people hate on it. Had this been Dell or Lenovo that made a dynamic Touch Bar that changes by application people would be praising it and hating on Apple for not implementing it.

And as far as creating features where no problem existed, that's something every manufacturer does and I will agree with what Steve Jobs said about customers not knowing what they want or need until it's presented to them. Just because a group of online techies doesn't like something doesn't mean the rest of us share the same feelings.
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Stop praising a company that's been making gross errors to their pro-line for the past 4 years. When brands like MSI/Razer make better high-end laptops, people should complain.

And now you're praising companies without stating problems about them, and you, I and the rest of the tech enthusiasts know that MSI, Razer, Microsoft, Lenovo and Dell all have constant issues year after year. Show me one model out of all of these companies that is 100% free of problems? No company deserves praise based on what you said.

 

[49erRedGold]

Complaining about the butterfly keyboard is what got us the new 16" MBP. I'm just saying, Apple reads these posts and takes our complaints to heart. For the record, I am perfectly fine with the butterfly keyboard but I'm sure the new one is a step in the right direction.

Where is your proof that Apple reads these posts? If anything they should ignore Macrumors to the fullest. Trying to sort through who's trolling and who has genuine problems is near impossible. You can't even decipher who actually owns Apple's products when they say things like, "I just spent $3000 on a MacBook Pro and I returned it because I didn't like the MacBook Pro name underneath the screen."

If you truly think complaining about the keyboard is what got us the new keyboard in the 16" then you may want to work in the retail environment for a bit to understand the reasons for changes made. Apple saw a great deal of MacBooks coming at them for repair of the keyboard leading them to understand that the butterfly keyboard had major issues. And yes some of the complaints on the internet may have helped but the problem about forums is people are very entitled and companies ignore entitled people.

 

[Ma2k5]

Where is your proof that Apple reads these posts? If anything they should ignore Macrumors to the fullest. Trying to sort through who's trolling and who has genuine problems is near impossible. You can't even decipher who actually owns Apple's products when they say things like, "I just spent $3000 on a MacBook Pro and I returned it because I didn't like the MacBook Pro name underneath the screen."

If you truly think complaining about the keyboard is what got us the new keyboard in the 16" then you may want to work in the retail environment for a bit to understand the reasons for changes made. Apple saw a great deal of MacBooks coming at them for repair of the keyboard leading them to understand that the butterfly keyboard had major issues. And yes some of the complaints on the internet may have helped but the problem about forums is people are very entitled and companies ignore entitled people.

An interview recently with Phil Schiller on youtube said he enjoyed reading what people said online on forums (referencing the 16" MBP) and how wrong the rumours where, including thinking the price will be £3k starting etc.

It is not uncommon to work on products/software/music etc and become quite obsessive to see what people think of it online and on social media - considering how much effort people put into the products.

 

[49erRedGold]

I think some people need to stop being so defensive, if people have criticisms of the 16" or don't like it, why does it affect you? Do you need validation of your new shiny toy? No need for such hostility at people who want to share their experience.

It's not about people being defensive. The issue when there are a lot of little complaints over nothing and someone says, "I'm not having these issues" then they are called an Apple apologist and are told to shut up as they are defending Apple. I've seen people say, "Your Mac WILL have problems". How dare someone say that? It's very rude. It's like they want someone's Mac to have problems so they can be right.

At this point Macrumors then becomes a place such as "If you're not with us against the evil giant Apple then you are defending Apple". That gets pretty frustrating for people. So are you saying that negativity is all that should be mentioned on MR?

 

[benshive]

You could tell the device was strong when the group that always finds something to complain about chose to fixate on a small audio bug that's since been fixed. I literally saw someone say that the launch of the laptop was "unacceptable" because of the bug.

 

[Mr Screech]

And now you're praising companies without stating problems about them, and you, I and the rest of the tech enthusiasts know that MSI, Razer, Microsoft, Lenovo and Dell all have constant issues year after year. Show me one model out of all of these companies that is 100% free of problems?

Of course they have their own problems, probably more so than Apple. However I'm talking about top-tier features those laptops have that should be fairly easy to implement at apple. Most important for me: they offer billion color screens without PWM dimming. Nearly any photographer would have loved that feature(Adobe RGB), or people that spend extended periods of time behind a screen(no PWM dimming). It might have raised the price by $500, but for their flagship laptop well worth the praise it would have gotten.

No company deserves praise based on what you said.

Well, not easily. 🙂
Not until they get things right. Especially when previous versions of features we're superior.

 

[Ma2k5]

It's not about people being defensive. The issue when there are a lot of little complaints over nothing and someone says, "I'm not having these issues" then they are called an Apple apologist and are told to shut up as they are defending Apple. I've seen people say, "Your Mac WILL have problems". How dare someone say that? It's very rude. It's like they want someone's Mac to have problems so they can be right.

At this point Macrumors then becomes a place such as "If you're not with us against the evil giant Apple then you are defending Apple". That gets pretty frustrating for people. So are you saying that negativity is all that should be mentioned on MR?

I’ve been here a long time and I never felt MR has become this huge negative force so I believe your argument is hyperbolic- infact the negativity is coming from the likes of people who complain about people complaining.

Would hate for this forum to become some elitist “you’re doing it wrong” space where people are silenced. Compared to every other company forum, no other forum is already as Pro-company as this is, so let’s stop the madness. Would help if people read other forums to get some perspective of how mild the criticism is of Apple.

 

[fishmoose]

It's pretty clear what the 16" can, and can't do, in my opinion. If the value it provides doesn't meet your needs or specification for a "Pro" machine you shouldn't buy it. Posting about issues I do think is a good idea. As a 16" owner I like to see what issues people are reporting. Just my two cents.

 

[revmacian]

I'm just saying, Apple reads these posts and takes our complaints to heart.

No, they don't.. and I'll explain why.

It is trivial for a user to create multiple forum accounts. Suppose you have a thread with conversation from 10 different users. Now, suppose that 2 of those people have actually created multiple accounts for the purpose of artificially inflating popularity for one side of the argument in the thread. Now, for all you know that thread, showing 10 users, is actually two or three people using multiple accounts to try to one-up each other making it appear that a group of people are engaged in conversation. This is known as sock-puppeting. I used to be a moderator on another Mac-centric website and we caught people like this on a regular basis. Apple would need full access to all of the back-end resources of a website in order to have any idea how many people they're actually dealing with. And, even then, there is no guarantee the number of individual people are actually present in the thread. This is why third-party forums are not 100% reliable for the purposes of feature popularity.

MacRumors is a wonderful forum with an outstanding staff. But, the human need to be correct can lead some people to unethical behavior. This may be why Apple runs their own message boards.. and I'm sure even that message board suffers from sock-puppeting at times.

 

[49erRedGold]

This may be why Apple runs their own message boards.. and I'm sure even that message board suffers from sock-puppeting at times.

Absolutely agreed! It's crazy on the Apple Support Forums. Nothing but new accounts left right and sideways of people complaining about the same thing making it seem like it's multiple people. The current ongoing one is the cracked screen. People are claiming that the screen is cracking itself. Those people are stupid if they think Apple would believe such crap. None of these "people" have AppleCare and less than 1% of them post any pics of these cracked screens. They get mad if anyone questions them as they assume zero responsibly of how the screen got cracked. Their only response is it's a defect trying to get Apple to cover their repairs free of charge. Ridiculously laughable. It's plainly obvious it's perhaps 5 people pretending to be 50.

 

[Sanpete]

This whole thread is so yesterday, the day before, the day before that, last week, last month, last year, two years ago, a decade ago, two decades ago, etc. It's like the earth spinning, just goes on and on no matter what else happens.

 

[Ifti]

Received mine today.
Updated OSX to the most recent update.

No issues at all. Im very happy with my unit.
Had the popping issue with sound, but the update fixed that and I no longer have it (well not that I notice).

I'm not going to purposefully look for issues. I will use my system as normal, the way I intend and need to use it, and if it does everything I need (which so far it is) then I'm a happy camper.

 

[maflynn]

The function keys were so boring to use.

Excitement has nothing to do with function keys, Keys are not used because they generate some sort of emotional response but rather they're there for a purpose. For many users, quite a lot, those function keys are a daily necessity and when apple removed them they adversely affected people's efficiency.