If the 16" sucks SO bad...

[1345873]

1) Don't buy it

or

2) Exchange it

or

3) Return it

and

4) Quit bitchin' about it and move on.

I've never seen so much whining here, which is pathetic considering this is the strongest update to the MBP Apple has released in 4.5 years, and at the strongest value proposition in that same time frame. If you have real issues, which are bound to affect some units, that sucks and you should exchange until you're happy or vote with your wallet and just return it and move on. But the constant whining for days and days and days and pages and pages and pages is really old hat.

You hate it, we get it. Go back to your 2012 then and take a seat. Nothing worse than someone who complains about something over and over but does nothing about it.

If you don't like to read the truth about Apple products.
1. Don't visit Macrumors
2. Don't read the comments
3. Try a 'social' network, perhaps they do listen

Quit complaining about the complainers, start contributing and lead by example..

Complaints have often lead to updates and a better experience.

They can be usefull and make my mac great again..

 

[Macshroomer]

This has nothing to do with entitlement, so I'm not sure why you went down that road. Also not sure what you're doing in the macbook pro forums if you don't have or use them...

Believe it or not, most of us want Apple to succeed. But if their pro laptops are lacking in nearly every department they need to get harsh feedback in the hopes it reaches them, forcing them to fix it in the next iteration. This brand used to be lauded for their audio/video performance, it's one of the big factors shaping their PR image in the 90s. I'd rather see them make a 5-10K laptop with everything done right, then a 3K laptop with mediocrity written all over it.

But that is your strongly worded opinion and it is not shared by everyone and that includes me. I have been using Apple hardware a long time and by no means perfect, it gets the job done with the convenient language of Mac OS and the hardware aesthetic that is also Apple. I push the hell out of my hardware and they way my 16" is handling it is simply outstanding.

So you say they are lacking but not everyone agrees, see the difference? So how about you preface or qualify your statement by saying "In my opinion", OK? That way you don't come off as some high order insider who can just blurt out blanket statements like that which do nothing but to inflame these types of discussions.

 

[49erRedGold]

Excitement has nothing to do with function keys, Keys are not used because they generate some sort of emotional response but rather they're there for a purpose. For many users, quite a lot, those function keys are a daily necessity and when apple removed them they adversely affected people's efficiency.

Oh okay, well think about what you wrote to me the very next time people get emotional over the light up Apple logo being removed. And as far as the few here who think their life is over because of the Touch Bar, the rest of us (including myself) have found a lot more production done with the TB over static function keys. But I would love to know all these functions people were doing with the static function keys? Please enlighten me?

 

[Analog Kid]

Complaining is good. It betters the next product. If you write a post that makes forum members paranoid about posting a complaint or a problem, you’re going to stifle the process to better a product.

Responsible feedback is good. I don’t think that’s what’s being talked about here— I think the point here is about people who think they can have an outsized impact by screaming at the top of their lungs about mundane things. In these forums, Chicken Little posts under multiple accounts.

The keyboard is a prime example: the number of posts complaining about the butterfly keyboard, by people who swear they’d never even own a MBP because of the keyboard (see the problem here?) reached the level of surreal. Nobody I know ever had a problem and the only concrete data I’ve ever seen suggest the 2018 butterfly keyboard had fewer failures than the 2015 scissor— but I can‘t even guess what to believe because the conversation had completely left the rails.

That level of noise is meaningless. That doesn’t improve a product, it forces a company to turn a deaf ear to criticism— or worse, make design decisions that lead to worse outcomes but appear to address problems that don’t actually exist.

Apple doesn’t need to read these forums to learn what the problems are— they have actual repair records. When those records show that the level of chatter is divorced from reality, we all get dismissed. There’s nothing wrong with discussing pros and cons, wishes and desires, or seeking solutions to common or rare problems. Taking an incidental problem you’ve only ever read about and transforming it into an ad hominem attack on the CEO and proof of vast conspiracies, though, is just destructive trolling.

If you simply don’t like something and you want to get a message to Apple that they’ll actually hear, bring it back to Apple.

 

[maflynn]

And as far as the few here who think their life is over because of the Touch Bar

You certainly enjoy using hyperbole, LOL, you seem overly emotional about this topic. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You ought not to take such a personal stake in a computer. Its not a holy war, its a computer that does a job, simple as that. My life choices do not impact, or invalidate your choices, nor do my opinions.

the rest of us (including myself) have found a lot more production done with the TB over static function keys.

That's fantastic, I never denied that there are people love the touchbar, and if you're more efficient over those boring function keys, more power to you.

Please enlighten me?

Given your snarky responses, I doubt very much you're sincerely interested, but here's my usage:

But I would love to know all these functions people were doing with the static function keys?

For me, it's the applications that I use, which use them. Other operating systems make use of the function keys as well.

 

[shardey]

Is there an official statement that there are ghosting problems?

Checked some units in the store and yeah there is / was also a difference in ghosting not that much but for that price not acceptable

Apple never made a statement about the popping noise in the speakers but they ended up fixing it.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

Given your snarky responses, I doubt very much you're sincerely interested, but here's my usage:

For me, it's the applications that I use, which use them. Other operating systems make use of the function keys as well.

I share maflynn's doubt that 49erRedGold is sincerely interested in an answer to the question, but in case anyone else reading the thread is, here's how as a developer I make heavy use of function keys.

F7 - F11 have been standard keyboard shortcuts for debugging (step into, step over, resume in various combinations) across many IDEs, Windows, Mac, and Linux, for at least two decades. They are muscle memory for most developers.

You can see just how many default key bindings in IntelliJ use function keys here (page two for Mac): https://resources.jetbrains.com/storage/products/intellij-idea/docs/IntelliJIDEA_ReferenceCard.pdf. I count thirty, give or take.

Many of the same function keys are used by Chrome's developer tools: https://developers.google.com/web/tools/chrome-devtools/shortcuts. I count six.

Firefox: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Keyboard_shortcuts. I count sixteen.

Visual Studio, so many I lost count: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/vi...board-shortcuts-in-visual-studio?view=vs-2019

That's a lot of keyboard shortcuts that need to be rebound. At least some of them can be replaced by TouchBar icons, but for me personally, that's just not as useful and efficient as physical keys: TouchBar buttons constantly appear, disappear, and move around as you navigate within and between apps, so you have to be looking down at the bar to use it, away from the source code or whatever you are working on, and there are no physical features on the virtual buttons for your fingers to locate them with.

This just one of the many reasons I'd rather have a row of real function keys than the TouchBar.

 

[RedTheReader]

I think it's the spoiled, ungrateful people who suffer from entitlement syndrome that are the problem.

I genuinely don’t feel I’m being entitled. I have a 2018 15” MacBook Pro and love it to death. But when I bought it, I knew it was lacking in graphics performance (for my needs), and I know that the 16” still is. When I take a look around and see so many competing laptops - now elegant instead of ugly as they used to be - offer that graphics performance for a much lower price, it makes me feel as though Apple isn’t doing their price tag justice. So I ask for more graphics performance.

There’s a difference between wanting improvement and vehemently demanding more. You can’t, in all fairness, pretend they’re the same thing.

 

[49erRedGold]

I genuinely don’t feel I’m being entitled. I have a 2018 15” MacBook Pro and love it to death. But when I bought it, I knew it was lacking in graphics performance (for my needs), and I know that the 16” still is. When I take a look around and see so many competing laptops - now elegant instead of ugly as they used to be - offer that graphics performance for a much lower price, it makes me feel as though Apple isn’t doing their price tag justice. So I ask for more graphics performance.

There’s a difference between wanting improvement and vehemently demanding more. You can’t, in all fairness, pretend they’re the same thing.

What will you be doing that requires far more graphics performance than the AMD 5500 w/8GB?

 

[Thrutheroofnunderground]

Peace and tranquility are so foreign to some people that they're willing to create chaos in order to avoid happiness. If they hate their 16" MBP so much, I'll take it.. I would likely need to save money for years to be able to afford such a luxury.

Unfortunately this is true. We have to be upset about something. The internet seems to have exacerbated this.

 

[CarbonCycles]

Meh

all about perspective. I wouldn’t be surprised that the ppl who complain the most are the ones who bought the mbp as an investment or fashion accessory, which I personally don’t understand either scenario.

The rest of us who use our mbps as tools to make this thing called money are too busy to care?

i find it amusing that ppl are complaining about the crackling and fan noise. At work we all have our speakers off as a respect to others in the open work environment. We also prefer our sound cancelling headphones

Regrdless we should all feel fortunate that we have the luxury to complain about first world problems.

 

[retta283]

It's a good update. It didn't fix everything, but it's a good start and definitely much much better than what we had before. Complaints about weight and size increase are unfounded, the difference is so tiny (especially thickness) that you'll quickly forget about it. Improvements in keyboard quality and the small things like Escape and proper arrow keys are really nice.

Base model is a pretty good deal again. Hopefully they cut the entry price by a bit soon, maybe back to $2,000. Then it's a really good deal. I myself took the plunge, waiting for mine to arrive still.

 

[waquzy]

Some whine about the logo below the screen, some whine about whining about the logo below the screen. Should I start a new thread whining about that?

Hmm... have I missed something? What do you mean by whining about the logo. What’s wrong with it?

 

[bevsb2]

Hmm... have I missed something? What do you mean by whining about the logo. What’s wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it. It is very subtle and discreet. In fact I hadn't even noticed it until someone complained about it here. Most laptops have the company's name on the device. Some people find the logo distracting or think it is providing free advertising for the company, as some people complain about a manufacturer's name on clothing for the same reason.

 

[Sanpete]

Hmm... have I missed something? What do you mean by whining about the logo. What’s wrong with it?

In another thread it was mentioned as a reason for not liking the MBP 16", seen as vulgar and distracting.

 

[Whackman]

Nah, i come to this forum to learn about issues and how to possibly avoid or cure them.
Let people complain all they want. They're consumers.

Having said that, i love my 16 inch. But it did restart twice and i think everyone will run into issues like that eventually sine mine is pretty much perfect otherwise. Oh, the popping sound. But that's not a real problem to me as i rarely listen trough laptop speakers. Not even this one. Best i've heard thus far. Still ..... laptop speakers..

 

[4sallypat]

First world problem for sure!

I'll give you $100 for your awful 16" MBP to take it off your hands!

 

[Passingby]

Nah, i come to this forum to learn about issues and how to possibly avoid or cure them.
Let people complain all they want. They're consumers.

Having said that, i love my 16 inch. But it did restart twice and i think everyone will run into issues like that eventually sine mine is pretty much perfect otherwise. Oh, the popping sound. But that's not a real problem to me as i rarely listen trough laptop speakers. Not even this one. Best i've heard thus far. Still ..... laptop speakers..

Best laptop speakers you've heard thus far but you rarely listen through laptop speakers so it's not a problem for you that the sounds are popping. haha

 

[Whackman]

Best laptop speakers you've heard thus far but you rarely listen through laptop speakers so it's not a problem for you that the sounds are popping. haha

Correct. They're the best laptop speakers i've heard but it's nothing compared to listening on good headphones or external speakers. The popping happens only when you scroll through a video. So for me to actually hear that sound i have to be A: listening through the laptopspeakers and B: scroll through a video...

Don't get me wrong, it's an issue that should be fixed and shoudn't have happened. it's just not much of a problem to me personally.

Understand or do i need to explain a bit more? Not problem if i have to.

 

[wallysb01]

Correct. They're the best laptop speakers i've heard but it's nothing compared to listening on good headphones or external speakers. The popping happens only when you scroll through a video. So for me to actually hear that sound i have to be A: listening through the laptopspeakers and B: scroll through a video...

Don't get me wrong, it's an issue that should be fixed and shoudn't have happened. it's just not much of a problem to me personally.

Understand or do i need to explain a bit more? Not problem if i have to.

And with 10.15.2 that problem seems to be fixed for almost everyone. I noticed it when trying out these new speakers and the display out with some YouTube-ing the first day I had it. The moment I updated to 10.15.2, it was gone. Outside of testing things out though, I never really do this, or at least very rarely when watching like a DIY project video or an occasional video review, so like you, this isn't a big deal.

 

[Whackman]

And with 10.15.2 that problem seems to be fixed for almost everyone. I noticed it when trying out these new speakers and the display out with some YouTube-ing the first day I had it. The moment I updated to 10.15.2, it was gone. Outside of testing things out though, I never really do this, or at least very rarely when watching like a DIY project video or an occasional video review, so like you, this isn't a big deal.

Haven't updated yet. After all these years i'm still scared for updates. I'm in the middle of a job that i need to finish first before i will update. Haha, too scared something will stop working. Although it hasn't happened to me in a long long time.

 

[wallysb01]

Haven't updated yet. After all these years i'm still scared for updates. I'm in the middle of a job that i need to finish first before i will update. Haha, too scared something will stop working. Although it hasn't happened to me in a long long time.

That has gotten a lot better, but it will still screw you over from time to time. I don't do updates in the middle of big projects either. But these days I always seem to be in the middle of something, so I just have to decide this particular project isn't that big of deal.

 

[mmjrk]

Apple built its brand by telling consumers that their products are perfection and things “just work”. That’s how they’ve been justifying their ridiculous pricing. That’s the deal. They broke the promise of their brand. That’s why people complain and they’re right to do so.

 

[Sanpete]

Apple built its brand by telling consumers that their products are perfection and things “just work”. That’s how they’ve been justifying their ridiculous pricing. That’s the deal. They broke the promise of their brand. That’s why people complain and they’re right to do so.

Has ever been so. Things have never been perfect, or even close. Only those new to Apple or with hazy nostalgia imagine otherwise. The problems with the new 16" are small so far compared to past updates.

 

[Glenny2lappies]

On the whole I like mine. Performance is great, which is why I bought it.

However, there's a bunch of issues which is related to new tech and a lot to do with the sub-standard Catalina, plus integration with other software.

The thing is I've been using Apple machines since they moved to Intel and have been delighted with them. I skipped the previous 15" as the one my wife uses had such an awful keyboard -- yes, really. As soon as this 16" machine was launched, within an hour of it going up on the Apple website I bought a new one expecting the same levels of reliability as per my previous 5 or 6 MacBook Pros.

I'm disappointed with the 16" in a few ways. The migration process was from my Mid 2015 15" retina which had all the ports and was running Mojave. This process took 2 days as I had to use the Time Machine backup and couldn't just back-to-back the machines as previously. Catalina is horrible and I've still not managed to migrate my 350Gb of music over to the 16" machine. I've had a the keyboard & trackpad lock up a few times -- pretty sure this is related to VMWare Fusion which has never afflicted previous machines. I also have issues with Night Shift kicking in randomly and the LCD panel, when using a Cinema display and waking from sleep either going washed out or extremely contrasty.

I hate all the dongles and really miss the MagSafe connector. The 16" machine's very prone to scratching unlike the silver older versions which all look like new even after years of daily life being carted around. It also looks dirty, showing smudges. I guess this is all the space grey being less utilitarian than the silver colour. I'm also not a great fan of the massive trackpad which needs care to not unintentionally move the mouse around. Had a few issues with the thing staying on in my bag, not happened before, so related to 16" or Catalina.

Probably these are issues that beset the 15" model it replaces, but I've not had one so it's my first experience.

The keyboard works. What's the point of praising something that's what you expect and isn't crap.

The sound quality's brilliant.

Bottom line; I've coughed up £5000 / $6500 (inc tax) for a machine that I expect to be as good as previous ones. On the whole it is, but there's many issues that can't be overlooked.

So why not return it...? What's my alternative? A bloody windows machine??? I need lots of disc space and the 64Gb of RAM is brilliant. So I'm putting up with it and trying to find workarounds and fixes for the bits that don't work.