If the 16" sucks SO bad...

[Hieveryone]

1) Don't buy it

or

2) Exchange it

or

3) Return it

and

4) Quit bitchin' about it and move on.

I've never seen so much whining here, which is pathetic considering this is the strongest update to the MBP Apple has released in 4.5 years, and at the strongest value proposition in that same time frame. If you have real issues, which are bound to affect some units, that sucks and you should exchange until you're happy or vote with your wallet and just return it and move on. But the constant whining for days and days and days and pages and pages and pages is really old hat.

You hate it, we get it. Go back to your 2012 then and take a seat. Nothing worse than someone who complains about something over and over but does nothing about it.

I mean I was just voicing my opinion. Right now I can't decide between my 2019 15" MacBook Pro base model or my 2019 16" MacBook Pro base model.

Both are great machines.

Pros of keeping 15:

No issues with it
Thin
Light
Sleek
Typing
Save some cash by returning 16" instead of re-selling 15" at discount

Pros of keeping 16:

More storage (not that I need it but still nice to have)
Battery
Speakers
Bigger screen

My only issue with my 16" is the yellow screen and the Touch Bar gets stuck sometimes but it's not big deal. If I restart it, it works again just fine

 

[macintoshmac]

Absolutely disagree here. I've been an exclusive Mac user for the past 25 years. The function keys were so boring to use. Nothing different year after year. The Exposé buttons, volume and brightness is all it every really did. It got to a point where I just ignored all but the volume buttons. Touch screens started penetrating the market on Windows machines and they are as useless as a dead mouse. There's nothing that can be done touching the screen that can't be done on the trackpad. Just a stupid gimmick. Apple had to answer that and IMO the Touch Bar makes the most sense. I love how it changes functions based on the application I'm using. Several functions that would normally require me to drill down through contextual menus are easily accessible via the Touch Bar.

I will easily predict in the next 24 months Windows laptop manufacturers will begin to add Touch Bars to their machines. It's only because it's Apple that people hate on it. Had this been Dell or Lenovo that made a dynamic Touch Bar that changes by application people would be praising it and hating on Apple for not implementing it.

And as far as creating features where no problem existed, that's something every manufacturer does and I will agree with what Steve Jobs said about customers not knowing what they want or need until it's presented to them. Just because a group of online techies doesn't like something doesn't mean the rest of us share the same feelings.
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And now you're praising companies without stating problems about them, and you, I and the rest of the tech enthusiasts know that MSI, Razer, Microsoft, Lenovo and Dell all have constant issues year after year. Show me one model out of all of these companies that is 100% free of problems? No company deserves praise based on what you said.

I agree, and my comment is specifically about the Touch Bar, that I found immense use of, in the apps that supported it. For my consumer-prosumer use, Touch Bar really helped my interaction with software and made it more joyful. Suddenly, the top row that I never used in years, became useful and all it took was effort to set up my apps to set specific buttons in the same place for them, such as delete files, create new folder, open new tabs in finder, safari, etc. and after that it was muscle memory. I loved it.

 

[smirking]

Suddenly, the top row that I never used in years, became useful and all it took was effort to set up my apps to set specific buttons in the same place for them, such as delete files, create new folder, open new tabs in finder, safari, etc. and after that it was muscle memory. I loved it.

Now that there's a physical ESC key again, I have no reason to be frustrated by the Touch Bar. It mostly is unused the same way the function keys are for me, but once in a while I do find it surfacing a control element that I never would have used nor been aware of had it not popped up in front of me.

I think the Touch Bar is languishing more from lack of creative support on the part of developers. It's a neat idea and when it's working, I am delighted to encounter a new wrinkle in my daily computing. I wish that happened more often. Most of the time, my interaction with the Touch Bar is not knowing if I hit the ESC key or not so I understand the gripe. I just think most of the gripes are overwrought.

 

[faust]

The 16" MBP sucks so bad that it stole my girlfriend and took my pets too! I don't know what to do with myself now. I'm so lost to this grief I feel. You think you're buying a computer, but in actuality? You're buying your replacement as a pet mom and girlfriend.

 

[Mr Screech]

I think the Touch Bar is languishing more from lack of creative support on the part of developers.

I'll take 12 physical function keys I can blindly push, over some mini touchscreen where I have to take a break from looking at the screen and perform some input without any tactile feedback.

It's a gimmick apple chose to equip all their macbook pro's with, without really thinking about the consequences. It looks 'cool'...that's it. Of course people can find a handful of scenarios where it has some sort of use, however people who use function keys extensively were left behind. With the newest series not even having the option to have them. Pretty disgusting way of doing business imo.

Removing the magsafe connector wasn't exactly a stroke of genius either. So I'm just wondering what they are thinking...or who tests their products. All this criticism on the boards is not to bring apple down, it's to lift them up!

 

[dmstasinos]

You seem to know all sorts of things way beyond what I said or implied, which didn't include anything about love or hate, or forgiveness, which isn't something that would be high on my list of concerns about a computer maker.

You don’t seem to have any real concerns about this specific computer maker at all. I guess you have your reasons which i don't care for.

You are urging people to stop complaining about things and do something useful. And this is the real irony here, because Apple fixes things only after a great number of complaints on the net starts to trigger attention.

This is the fact i am sticking to. At least i know this is a fact plus i don’t remember the last time you mentioned one of these in your posts. You are just trolling people who “actually bought” the machine.

 

[smirking]

It's a gimmick apple chose to equip all their macbook pro's with, without really thinking about the consequences.

You're talking about a company that supposedly has a full time employee that designed a single icon that's on their packaging. I really don't think throwing darts at the wall is their idea of product planning. It was a calculated risk... also sometimes known as really bad ideas when they don't go as planned, but yet also known as innovation when the bet pays off.

If people want innovation, they better be prepared for lots of flops because nobody puts out chart topping hits one after another without some stinkers in between. The MacRumors peanut gallery may hate the MBPs of the past 3 years, but an Apple that isn't taking risks isn't trying and they might as well sell their Mac division off to Lenovo or some other Chinese company that's very happy to make solid products without taking chances.
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Removing the magsafe connector wasn't exactly a stroke of genius either. So I'm just wondering what they are thinking...or who tests their products.

I know people who work there. You better believe they test their products. They not only test them, they have people who do nothing but obsess over a single part of the laptop and they get whisked away to production facilities around the world at the drop of a hat to inspect, supervise, and problem solve.

Magsafe would have been redundant with USB-C charging. I grumbled about losing Magsafe too when I first went with a 2016 tbMBP. Someone explained to me that having both would have disrupted the power circuitry and would have needed more room. You can't always keep adding without taking something away. Every feature has consequences.

Besides that, I've come to rather like USB-C charging. One cable does it all. It's a huge convenience for those of us who plug in and unplug repeatedly throughout the day. It'll also mean fewer chargers to carry around in the future as one USB-C charger will handle multiple devices... not yet, but getting there.

 

[Passingby]

I know people who work there. You better believe they test their products. They not only test them, they have people who do nothing but obsess over a single part of the laptop and they get whisked away to production facilities around the world at the drop of a hat to inspect, supervise, and problem solve.

Ask these 'people' why they released a product with popping sounds, faulty keyboards, thermal throttling, crashing controller chips, paint coming off the keyboard after one year of light use, etc and why do they continue to ship a T2 chip and BridgeOS for 18 months without solving a couple of these important issues.

 

[smirking]

Ask these 'people' why they released a product with popping sounds, faulty keyboards, thermal throttling, crashing controller chips, paint coming off the keyboard after one year of light use, etc and why do they continue to ship a T2 chip and BridgeOS for 18 months without solving a couple of these important issues.

That's different. I was responding to someone who believed that nothing gets tested or thought through before it gets released.

Ask why Intel produced a chip that is fundamentally vulnerable to the exploits known as Spectre and Meltdown. Well, processors are complicated and nobody has the ability to gameplan every possible scenario.

Also nobody uses only their own in-house parts. Every computer is so complicated today that everyone who makes a computer relies on a dizzying list of suppliers and sub-contracting suppliers who probably have even smaller sub-contractors below them. That's an environment ripe for issues to sneak in that nobody can isolate until it's a big deal.

People screw up too and sometimes companies know there's a problem, but decide that it's not bad enough of a problem to delay the ship date. We'll never know when they're right about these assumptions, but we certainly know when they're wrong. They might be right 99 times out of every time they're wrong in believing that a particular issue is never going to have real world consequences. Conversely, they might be right only 1 time for every 99 times they're wrong. We have no way of knowing.

That some people have popping speakers doesn't mean that they didn't bother to consider those type of problems. It just means they failed to prevent it.

Anyway, you speak about the T2 chip like it's a universal issue. I've had either a 2016 or this current 2018 MBP for 3 years now and my use case is murder on the machine. I haven't run into issues with it nor have I run into that Bridge OS thing. I don't even know what the Bridge OS issue is. I probably would know what it is had I continued to be interested in reading MacRumors the past few months, but it was all wall to wall bellyaching with recycled snark so I dropped out... and I guess that makes me more like an average person than all of the people who seem to be in the know here.

Popping speakers... yes I've experienced that, but only once in three years while the machine was under very heavy load.

 

[Passingby]

That's different. I was responding to someone who believed that nothing gets tested or thought through before it gets released.

Ask why Intel produced a chip that is fundamentally vulnerable to the exploits known as Spectre and Meltdown. Well, processors are complicated and nobody has the ability to gameplan every possible scenario.

Processors are much harder. You don't know if or when someone is going to try to exploit the silicon. There are too many possible points of failure to mitigate.

However, popping speakers is child's play. This is something that shouldn't be happening in 2018-2020 without being resolved. 18 months of complaints and no resolution.

The T2 was just a massively bad idea. Putting the SMC, disk controller, sound chip and encryption all in one package has just caused pain for too many users from reading all the problems. Audio should be handled by a dedicated sound chip that can't suffer electronic or pathway interference from other chips. The CPU has always been able to handle disk encryption fine. Linus will be addressing this terrible chip in his Mac Pro review.

 

[smirking]

However, popping speakers is child's play. This is something that shouldn't be happening in 2018-2020 without being resolved. 18 months of complaints and no resolution.

If it's still happening, don't you think the problem might be a little more complicated than child's play? I'm not endorsing Apple here. This is a general statement about my amazement that people think there are easy solutions to persistent problems. Everything seems easy from this distance.

I'm not arguing that the MBPs are fantastic machines. I happen to like mine, but I'm not arguing it's a stellar laptop. I'm merely pointing out some flaws in people's assumptions that the problem is that there's lack of forethought or planning.

I'd make mostly the same points if the company were Microsoft or Google. Yeah, it's possible that nobody even considered some of these issues, but it's far more likely they did and simply screwed up because it was a difficult issue to deal with.

 

[Passingby]

If it's still happening, don't you think the problem might be a little more complicated than child's play?

You misunderstood when I said child's play. It's child's play to play clean audio through speakers because it has been done for decades. It's not child's play if Apple decides to reinvent the wheel and does something unnecessarily complicated such as the T2 chip, which has come with a host of other problems.

An SoC has many points of potential failure and shouldn't be done so suddenly. You have to work up to it over many years. The iOS devices are also having random pops but not as bad as the T2.

This points to either chip design failures or deliberately introducing flawed speaker playback so they can generate add-on sales with the AirPods. I wouldn't doubt the latter because these popping speaker bugs were introduced at the same time as AirPods were introduced and seen as a big money maker.

 

[dmstasinos]

I know people who work there. You better believe they test their products.

Since you know some of these people what do they have to say about the popping issue? I mean what do they really have to say? What’s the real cause of this? I will believe anything right know since i didn’t design the T2 chip. They did (generally speaking, it didn't design it's self did it?)

Let me ask you this. Do you personally believe that a client who has paid this amount of money on a device planning to use it as a portable audio studio deserves an answer on what’s causing this? I get it, the popping is there and s**t happens in the computer world. I forgive Apple that this was the first thing i noticed when booting my machine. I can even use headphones some times. But do i have the right to ask why it’s still there and what’s causing this?

As Passingby said, audio is indeed child’s play. It has been decades since clean audio is something we consider as granted even in relatively cheap devices.

Apple has built it’s entire product line up with clean audio in mind since the iPods. Logic Pro X is used in high end studios, many of which are equipped with high end usb 2 devices. Nothing has changed regarding audio specs, everything still tops at 32bit, 192 kHz and the encoding methods are still the same.

Clean audio is not a luxury, it’s a must. Is T2 a must? I don’t know you tell me. Is it possible to have both? Only Apple can answer this. But the only reason we are talking and speculating here is Apple's silence.

"You are holding your phone in the wrong way" they said some years before. Can we have at least something like this? Anything would work.

 

[smirking]

Since you know some of these people what do they have to say about the popping issue? I mean what do they really have to say?

The people I know work far away from that and even if they did work on it, they're not going to tell me. I'm not telling anyone that they're holding it wrong if that's what you think I'm doing. My comment was just in response to people who think things like this happen because companies like Apple and any similar company do their product designs on the back of a napkin. No business at Apple's level does anything on a whim... if for no other reason, you can't when you have to bend a worldwide supply chain to your attention to make anything happen at scale.

As Passingby said, audio is indeed child’s play.

He then said I misunderstood what he meant... that it would be child's play if you don't introduce something like the T2 chip.

 

[Passingby]

The people I know work far away from that and even if they did work on it, they're not going to tell me. I'm not telling anyone that they're holding it wrong if that's what you think I'm doing. My comment was just in response to people who think things like this happen because companies like Apple and any similar company do their product designs on the back of a napkin. No business at Apple's level does anything on a whim... if for no other reason, you can't when you have to bend a worldwide supply chain to your attention to make anything happen at scale.


He then said I misunderstood what he meant... that it would be child's play if you don't introduce something like the T2 chip.

I think we three are on the same page and just mixing words. I made a new thread where we can also make a list of changes we want to see in Apple computers.

 

[dmstasinos]

I'm not telling anyone that they're holding it wrong if that's what you think I'm doing.

No i was not targeting you with that. Sorry if it seemed like a personal attack, it was clearly not.

 

[Sanpete]

You don’t seem to have any real concerns about this specific computer maker at all. I guess you have your reasons which i don't care for.

You are urging people to stop complaining about things and do something useful. And this is the real irony here, because Apple fixes things only after a great number of complaints on the net starts to trigger attention.

This is the fact i am sticking to. At least i know this is a fact plus i don’t remember the last time you mentioned one of these in your posts. You are just trolling people who “actually bought” the machine.

Your thought process so cluttered with made-up assumptions about what others are thinking or motivated by that you miss what they actually say. For example, this is what I actually said about complaining:

Expressing dislike of certain features or bugs is part of what the forum is for; it can be a useful thing. Turning it into an opera about the fall of Apple or the need to deprogram those who worship it is another matter, not so helpful.

Focus on facts instead of imagined inner thoughts of others and your thinking will be more clear and useful.

And if you're going to keep criticizing others, don't take it so hard when you get some back.

Magsafe would have been redundant with USB-C charging.

And less reliable. I wish my 2011 17" didn't have it; has caused a lot more trouble than a normal port ever has for me.

You misunderstood when I said child's play. It's child's play to play clean audio through speakers because it has been done for decades. It's not child's play if Apple decides to reinvent the wheel and does something unnecessarily complicated such as the T2 chip, which has come with a host of other problems.

It seems to be child's play to people haven't tried to integrate it with a host of other functions or enhancements. Doesn't matter if it's in the T2 chip or not, if it's tied up with lots of other stuff, stuff can easily happen. It's all "easy" to those who have no clue how it's done.

This points to either chip design failures or deliberately introducing flawed speaker playback so they can generate add-on sales with the AirPods. I wouldn't doubt the latter because these popping speaker bugs were introduced at the same time as AirPods were introduced and seen as a big money maker.

Paranoia.

 

[Macshroomer]

This thread is pathetic.

 

[Passingby]

Your thought process so cluttered with made-up assumptions about what others are thinking or motivated by that you miss what they actually say. For example, this is what I actually said about complaining:


Focus on facts instead of imagined inner thoughts of others and your thinking will be more clear and useful.

And if you're going to keep criticizing others, don't take it so hard when you get some back.


And less reliable. I wish my 2011 17" didn't have it; has caused a lot more trouble than a normal port ever has for me.


It seems to be child's play to people haven't tried to integrate it with a host of other functions or enhancements. Doesn't matter if it's in the T2 chip or not, if it's tied up with lots of other stuff, stuff can easily happen. It's all "easy" to those who have no clue how it's done.


Paranoia.

Your replies are just insults and mockery to other members of the forum.

 

[dmstasinos]

Your replies are just insults and mockery to other members of the forum.

Don't bother. I will just ignore him and i suggest you to do the same. A mute button would be really helpful here.

 

[Sanpete]

Your replies are just insults and mockery to other members of the forum.

My replies are factual, and obviously in no way more insulting than the posts I respond to. If insults bother you, look inward.

 

[mvsr]

If people want innovation, they better be prepared for lots of flops because nobody puts out chart topping hits one after another without some stinkers in between.

Smartphones were innovative, tablets were innovative, the iMac was innovative. 2-in-1 laptop/tablets are innovative, the capabilities of the iPad Pro are pretty innovative as a tool for video/audio/art.

Nothing about Apple as a computer company is actually innovative right now (aside from, arguably, the 6K screen that might as well not exist for 99.9% of the population), that's part of the problem - they're delivering up the same-old-same-old but quite often screwing things up along the way - the MBP keyboard, speaker popping, the problems the T2 chip has caused with audio interfaces. Aside from the general improvement in capability that's true of all computers, there's really nothing better about a Macbook Pro or MacOS in general compared to, say, 2010.

That's not the end of the world - a clean user experience matters more than anything. Keep churning out Macbook Pros that just keep up with advances in CPUs and GPUs, cool - but you know, make them work really really well.

 

[dmstasinos]

Smartphones were innovative, tablets were innovative, the iMac was innovative. 2-in-1 laptop/tablets are innovative, the capabilities of the iPad Pro are pretty innovative as a tool for video/audio/art.

Nothing about Apple as a computer company is actually innovative right now (aside from, arguably, the 6K screen that might as well not exist for 99.9% of the population), that's part of the problem - they're delivering up the same-old-same-old but quite often screwing things up along the way - the MBP keyboard, speaker popping, the problems the T2 chip has caused with audio interfaces. Aside from the general improvement in capability that's true of all computers, there's really nothing better about a Macbook Pro or MacOS in general compared to, say, 2010.

That's not the end of the world - a clean user experience matters more than anything. Keep churning out Macbook Pros that just keep up with advances in CPUs and GPUs, cool - but you know, make them work really really well.

I agree with all of these and especially the “clean user experience” part.

I am not sure about forced innovation though. One of the few things i always liked about Apple products is the fact that any new technology found it’s way into them at the right moment. Apple never introduced anything to the market until it was thoroughly tested and rock solid.

This why i am so surprised with these latest laptops, because it’s old tech with new issues. And i have nothing against old tech.

 

[WozniakDestroyTimCook]

1) Don't buy it

or

2) Exchange it

or

3) Return it

and

4) Quit bitchin' about it and move on.

I've never seen so much whining here, which is pathetic considering this is the strongest update to the MBP Apple has released in 4.5 years, and at the strongest value proposition in that same time frame. If you have real issues, which are bound to affect some units, that sucks and you should exchange until you're happy or vote with your wallet and just return it and move on. But the constant whining for days and days and days and pages and pages and pages is really old hat.

You hate it, we get it. Go back to your 2012 then and take a seat. Nothing worse than someone who complains about something over and over but does nothing about it.

This thread is as useless as the trash can. You are trying to suppress anyone to complain something wrong about Apple Products. Close the thread!

 

[Nacho98]

This thread is as useless as the trash can. You are trying to suppress anyone to complain something wrong about Apple Products. Close the thread!

Not really. It's more this kind of crap that this thread exists:

MacBook Pro 16 Keyboard backlight

Wondering if anyone has noticed that the keyboard backlighting on the MacBook Pro 16 is inconsistent. I am attaching some pictures that show the difference. The space gray MacBook has a purple looking background and the Silver model has more of a white light background. I also exchanged a...

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