If the next MBP doesnt have i5, Blu Ray & ATI say goodbye to highend consumers Apple!

[Svennig]

If they do add BR to the MBP line, I hope it will be as an optional upgrade only.

That way, I can skip having to pay an extra (insert cost here) and can sit back and laugh at the idiots who buy BR when it dies in a few years time.

Seriously. If you can't see that everything is moving towards downloads and streaming, you're an idiot. And if you're basing your forecast of what's going to happen in the software, gaming, music, and film industries off "people in retail", you are an idiot and there is no hope for you.

 

[deconstruct60]

most problem: there is no USB3 expected on MBP in early 2010

Gee, doesn't seem to be toooooo hard or HP and 17 other vendors.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/186877/hps_first_usb_30_laptop_ships_others_on_the_way.html

Ooops another one

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/03/asus-n82-and-n61-join-the-usb-3-0-laptop-party/

Errr another one
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/05/dell-precision-m6500-gets-upgraded-with-usb-3-0-core-i5-options/

Oh snap ... another one ( 510 model )
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/w-series/features



I can see why Apple passed on the eSATA/USB combo sockets for the last year or so. eSATA isn't inherently hot plug-and-play by default, so naive users will likely inflict pain on themselves easily. However, somewhat hard to see why when everyone and their mother can roll out a USB 3.0 laptop right now but Apple is going to hit the snooze button until 2011.

Sure, they will have entirely run out of excuses when USB 3.0 hits the primary soutbridge chips they buy at that point.

so there is no eSATA alternative RIGHT NOW

That is primarily true because they don't call NEC and ask for USB controller chip (only really need a 1 or 2 port providing controller). Announced publicly last May. Most of the folks rolling out solutions at a steady pace right now did that about a year ago.

Sure it is a bit more of a power hog (probably seperate 2.0 and 3.0 silicon in there), but can balance that off with drops in other places.

Apple has shown all indications of being itching to dump Firewire and ExpressCard. The pointed question that should be directed at Apple is what are they going to replace them with. Rationally, that could be USB 3.0 but
if they drag their heels on that too. Not sure why there should be a lack of expectation.

 

[moel]

If they do add BR to the MBP line, I hope it will be as an optional upgrade only.

That way, I can skip having to pay an extra (insert cost here) and can sit back and laugh at the idiots who buy BR when it dies in a few years time.

Seriously. If you can't see that everything is moving towards downloads and streaming, you're an idiot. And if you're basing your forecast of what's going to happen in the software, gaming, music, and film industries off "people in retail", you are an idiot and there is no hope for you.

THIS

 

[Vancouvercanuck]

If they do add BR to the MBP line, I hope it will be as an optional upgrade only.

That way, I can skip having to pay an extra (insert cost here) and can sit back and laugh at the idiots who buy BR when it dies in a few years time.

Seriously. If you can't see that everything is moving towards downloads and streaming, you're an idiot. And if you're basing your forecast of what's going to happen in the software, gaming, music, and film industries off "people in retail", you are an idiot and there is no hope for you.

It doesnt take an idiot to think how stupid you will look when a friend with a cheap notebook can watch blu-ray movies while you cannot because you simply dont have the optical drive. Don't listen to Steve Jobs, obviously he is trying to convince you the opitcal drive is dying so you would buy movies/games/applications from there. Future games/movies/application will contains a lot of space and the download speed is simply not there to take the demand, i am not waiting 12 hours just to download 25GB of stuff to my computer.

I am sorry but you are the only idiot and there is no hope for you.

 

[Icaras]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

Seriously. If you can't see that everything is moving towards downloads and streaming, you're an idiot. And if you're basing your forecast of what's going to happen in the software, gaming, music, and film industries off "people in retail", you are an idiot and there is no hope for you.

Then I guess I'm am idiot. But if you don't mind, would you be so kind as to prove that I am an idiot by showing me evidence (statistical data should do) that the industry is moving toward digital downloads?

Thanks.

 

[moel]

It doesnt take an idiot to think how stupid you will look when a friend with a cheap notebook can watch blu-ray movies while you cannot because you simply dont have the optical drive.

Do you know what..i'll happily watch a friend playing a blu-ray movie in his cheap notebook...and i'll laugh even harder when the battery dies half way through. Oh and then i'll wait a few years and really laugh my arse off when people don't even remember blu-ray. Whats that your laptop...you don't use your BD anymore...oh..right...you do what? Download your movies from the interweb over your internet connection? Like any sane person does right now.

Ultimate case in point, your on a long haul flight...anus boy over there pulls out his stack of blu-ray discs, leafs thru puts one into the drive...watches film...uses laptop for a bit of gaming or some such...his battery is dead about 2 hours into the flight...i've double clicked a file on my computer with as near as damnit quality and i still have a further 2-3 hours on my macbook to do stuff.

Yeah..i really look like an idiot at that point....

 

[kasakka]

Seriously. If you can't see that everything is moving towards downloads and streaming, you're an idiot. And if you're basing your forecast of what's going to happen in the software, gaming, music, and film industries off "people in retail", you are an idiot and there is no hope for you.

BluRay still has many many years to live. Unless there are significant improvements in net technology, you won't see streaming movies in the common household anytime soon. Rural areas are very problematic for net speeds and access. There are lots of old houses with crappy copper wiring that can only handle a 1-2 Mbit connection, which is not fast enough for streaming.

Not to mention the HD streams from many video services are not even close to BluRay levels. The bitrates are just too low for that. I wouldn't mind being able to stream my favorite series and movies off the net at really high quality but so far it just isn't happening, if for no other reason than the stupid way countries are still regarded as different areas in a global network like the internet so some stuff isn't available because there's no deal between the service provider and the local whatever.

Then there's the collecting aspect. I don't know about you, but I still buy CDs because I like having a collection of music - even if I rip them to my computer and listen to them there. Same thing with BluRays and DVDs.

 

[Svennig]

It doesnt take an idiot to think how stupid you will look when a friend with a cheap notebook can watch blu-ray movies while you cannot because you simply dont have the optical drive. Don't listen to Steve Jobs, obviously he is trying to convince you the opitcal drive is dying so you would buy movies/games/applications from there. Future games/movies/application will contains a lot of space and the download speed is simply not there to take the demand, i am not waiting 12 hours just to download 25GB of stuff to my computer.

I am sorry but you are the only idiot and there is no hope for you.

You're confusing the issue. My friend next to me will be watching a movie on a BR disk. I will be watching a 1080P download from the web.

His computer will be physically larger to incorporate the disk drive. It will have to have a larger battery (or suffer reduced battery life) in order to power the mechanical drive. He will have to carry the physical media around with him. I can have a large selection in a much smaller volume. He will have had to visit stores to purchase movies (or have them sent to him). This adds to the cost of the movies. It also means he can't simply download another film. It's inconvenient, he has to do something or he has to wait.

Me? I'll sit there with a thinner laptop with longer battery life playing High-definition movies from my computer. And if I want a new one I'll set it downloading while my friend has to drive to Blockbuster.

And it's not going to take 12 hours either. Cable is at 50-100Mb speeds. GPON networks (next generation broadband) are at 2.5Gbps. Thats 2500Mbps. As in, a 50Gig blu-ray sized file in under three minutes. Next generation wireless access - LTE - is 100Mbps to the handset. An iPhone with 100Mbps. And these speeds are only getting faster. 5G, 10G PON networks are coming.

If I could get everyone on this thread to remember one thing it would be this:

I can have High-Definition WITHOUT BLU-RAY.

 

[Icaras]

If I could get everyone on this thread to remember one thing it would be this:

I can have High-Definition WITHOUT BLU-RAY.

And let me remind everyone on this thread about two extra things:

You can't get high-definition audio WITHOUT BLU-RAY.

Not everyone is as fortunate like you to have EXCEPTIONAL BROADBAND SPEEDS FOR 1080P DOWNLOADS.

 

[Svennig]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)



Then I guess I'm am idiot. But if you don't mind, would you be so kind as to prove that I am an idiot by showing me evidence (statistical data should do) that the industry is moving toward digital downloads?



Thanks.

In the last 5 years, every major UK TV channel has launched catch-up TV services. The bbc iplayer is now offering live TV. The iPlayer serves 2.6 Million radio and TV programmes per day (http://www.simplifydigital.co.uk/news/bbc-iplayers-growth-shows-big-appeal-of-catch-up-tv.html). The growth rate of IPTV is huge.

The catch-up tv services have proven so successful there is a project by the major TV companies to standardise the system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Canvas)

Sky TV can now be streamed to any XBox 360 over the internet. The XBox, iTunes, netflicks, lovefilm, blockbuster are all offering streaming on demand. Hulu. The list goes on.

 

[Svennig]

And let me remind everyone on this thread about two extra things:

You can't get high-definition audio WITHOUT BLU-RAY.

Yes, you can.

 

[Icaras]

Yes, you can.

Oh, so you downloaded a 7.1 DTS-HD MA soundtrack to your 1080p movie? In under three minutes?

 

[Svennig]

BluRay still has many many years to live. Unless there are significant improvements in net technology, you won't see streaming movies in the common household anytime soon. Rural areas are very problematic for net speeds and access. There are lots of old houses with crappy copper wiring that can only handle a 1-2 Mbit connection, which is not fast enough for streaming.

I agree. But the trouble with rural places is that they are rural. As in not many people. As in not a huge market.

If the market for Blu-Ray is people in rural locations who cant (at the moment) get good broadband, it's going to be a staggeringly small market compared to the market for digital downloads driven by city and suburbian dwellers.

 

[Svennig]

Oh, so you downloaded a 7.1 DTS-HD MA soundtrack to your 1080p movie? In under three minutes?

Let me put it another way.

It doesn't matter what it is. It only matters how large it is. I used 50G because this corresponds to the size of a BR disk (currently). You can scale it for anything else.

Look at it this way. At 2.5Gbps I can download 320 megabytes per second.

I want to stream a film lasting 2 hrs (say). So, whats the largest the film can be so that I can stream it in real-time?

2 hours * 320 Megabytes per second = 2.19726562 terabytes

That's an extraordinary example, because you wouldn't use a network like that. But streaming 50G? Not a problem.

 

[Icaras]

In the last 5 years, every major UK TV channel has launched catch-up TV services. The bbc iplayer is now offering live TV. The iPlayer serves 2.6 Million radio and TV programmes per day (http://www.simplifydigital.co.uk/news/bbc-iplayers-growth-shows-big-appeal-of-catch-up-tv.html). The growth rate of IPTV is huge.

The catch-up tv services have proven so successful there is a project by the major TV companies to standardise the system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Canvas)

Sky TV can now be streamed to any XBox 360 over the internet. The XBox, iTunes, netflicks, lovefilm, blockbuster are all offering streaming on demand. Hulu. The list goes on.

Thanks for spouting data. I'll spout some right back at ya.

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/07/16/blu-ray-celebrates-91-percent-sales-increase-for-first-half-of-2/

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/07/03/uk-blu-ray-sales-up-231-over-last-year/

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/10/06/blu-ray-outpacing-dvd-adoption-will-never-reach-its-penetration/

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3979

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3984

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4009

And again, heres a link to show you that not everyone is as lucky as you are in terms of broadband:

http://www.9to5mac.com/us-internet-speed-67544567

 

[drjsway]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)Then I guess I'm am idiot. But if you don't mind, would you be so kind as to prove that I am an idiot by showing me evidence (statistical data should do) that the industry is moving toward digital downloads?

1. iTunes and other online media stores
2. DVD sales (including Blu-Ray) have been going down every year since 2004.
3. Broadband speed doubles every 2-3 years. Only a matter of time before people can stream Blu-Ray quality movies.
4. Retail stores that sell DVDs (like Tower Records) are going bankrupt. So is rental stores like Blockbuster. Netflix is spending a lot of money/resources on online streaming so their company doesn't die with optical media.

Other reasons why it's idiotic to buy Blu-Ray for a laptop:

1. Any portable device should ideally have no moving parts (meaning SSD drive and no optical disc drive).
2. 99% of people cannot see/hear the full benefits of Blu-Ray in their living room, much less a laptop. If you have a 50" LCD/Plasma, there is NO difference between Blu-Ray and a 10Mb/s 1080p stream. If you have a less than $2,000 sound system, there is NO difference between HD audio and 1.5MB DTS. To realize the full benefits of Blu-Ray, you need an expensive 1080p projector and at least a 110" screen. In other words, blu-ray is overkill for a laptop (and most living rooms).

 

[Icaras]

Let me put it another way.

It doesn't matter what it is. It only matters how large it is. I used 50G because this corresponds to the size of a BR disk (currently). You can scale it for anything else.

Look at it this way. At 2.5Gbps I can download 320 megabytes per second.

I want to stream a film lasting 2 hrs (say). So, whats the largest the film can be so that I can stream it in real-time?

2 hours * 320 Megabytes per second = 2.19726562 terabytes

That's an extraordinary example, because you wouldn't use a network like that. But streaming 50G? Not a problem.

And I'm saying it doesn't matter what it is, or how large the file is. The blazing kind of broadband infrastructure you keep talking about, is simply not widely available to the mass public. How else can you shove digital downloads down people's throats when the infrastructure isn't even there

 

[Svennig]

Thanks for spouting data. I'll spout some right back at ya.

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/07/16/blu-ray-celebrates-91-percent-sales-increase-for-first-half-of-2/

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/07/03/uk-blu-ray-sales-up-231-over-last-year/

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/10/06/blu-ray-outpacing-dvd-adoption-will-never-reach-its-penetration/

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3979

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3984

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4009

And again, heres a link to show you that not everyone is as lucky as you are in terms of broadband:

http://www.9to5mac.com/us-internet-speed-67544567

Let me quote from your third link,

"...package media will not sustain the household penetration it enjoys today because of the recent introduction of digital downloads and other VOD options consumers have."

 

[Porco]

And let me remind everyone on this thread about two extra things:

You can't get high-definition audio WITHOUT BLU-RAY.

Not everyone is as fortunate like you to have EXCEPTIONAL BROADBAND SPEEDS FOR 1080P DOWNLOADS.

I agree. But the trouble with rural places is that they are rural. As in not many people. As in not a huge market.

If the market for Blu-Ray is people in rural locations who cant (at the moment) get good broadband, it's going to be a staggeringly small market compared to the market for digital downloads driven by city and suburbian dwellers.

I love it when people make the marketshare argument on a mac forum! Let's all bin our macs and get windows machines everyone, it's a bigger market! Yes they're not as good, but who cares, anyone who can't see that cheap trash is the future is probably an idiot and has there is no hope for them!

You also ignore people who still don't like downloading stuff. Film fanatics are not always geeks or even heavy computer users. Sure, I reckon 90%+ of people reading this forum will be downloading all their content within 5 or 6 years, but the general public? Not so sure.

And why are Apple still selling lossy AAC music files if so many people have such fast speeds already that Blu-ray is superfluous?

The answer is presumably that people don't care enough about the quality. If they don't care enough about the quality, what is the point of them downloading 'HD' movies anyway? Stick with standard def that downloads quick. If you want plentiful and legit quality HD content, Blu-ray is clearly the best option for the next few years, regardless of what your internet speed is.

 

[Icaras]

1. iTunes and other online media stores
2. DVD sales (including Blu-Ray) have been going down every year since 2004.
3. Broadband speed doubles every 2-3 years. Only a matter of time before people can stream Blu-Ray quality movies.

I just stopped there. Thanks for proving absolutely nothing. I just provided a ton of links disproving you. Sorry, but blu-ray is NOT going down every year.

 

[Icaras]

Let me quote from your third link,

"...package media will not sustain the household penetration it enjoys today because of the recent introduction of digital downloads and other VOD options consumers have."

And what's to say digital downloads won't sustain household penetration as well, due to blu-ray success? It baffles me when you label people as idiots when you obviously have an argument this divided, almost down the middle.

 

[Svennig]

And I'm saying it doesn't matter what it is, or how large the file is. The blazing kind of broadband infrastructure you keep talking about, is simply not widely available to the mass public. How else can you shove digital downloads down people's throats when the infrastructure isn't even there

It might not be there in your area, but its available in others (and others in other countries). And chances are, something similar is on the horizon for you guys.

Even if it's only ADSL 2+ rolled out so you actually get 24Mbps, you can download 21 gigabytes in 2 hours. So you can stream a more-compressed BR with a slight decrease in quality. And let's be honest, that's only a stop-gap until you get fibre to the home, at which point the infrastructure is done.

Internet data rates are only getting faster.

 

[drjsway]

I just stopped there. Thanks for proving absolutely nothing. I just provided a ton of links disproving you. Sorry, but blu-ray is NOT going down every year.

Optical media (DVD + Blu-Ray combined) is going down. Blu-Ray itself is gaining market share, but the market is shrinking. Learn how to read before blasting me.

 

[Icaras]

3. Broadband speed doubles every 2-3 years. Only a matter of time before people can stream Blu-Ray quality movies.

You're full of laughs on that post. I forgot to address your third point.

http://www.9to5mac.com/us-internet-speed-67544567

Internet speeds actually went DOWN in 2009 in America. 2-3 times faster? Not even.

 

[Porco]

I think some people might like to know that there is this thing called the power adapter, it lets a laptop computer run without having to draw power from the battery. It even comes included with every Mac.

Oh, and Blu-ray sales are up massively year-on-year. DVD is in decline because that is what most online video is competing with, and will be for some time. Right now we're seeing a separation of those who (can) buy for convenience over quality, and those who favour quality (or are unable to access HD-ish content online for whatever reasons).

Sure eventually everything will be downloads and *yuck* streaming, but there are still enough people buying audio CDs for the debate to be anything more than forum filler for now. Come back when no-one sells audio CDs and then Blu-ray might need to worry. In a few more years after that. When we've all bought at least 2 computers in between making this whole debate redundant by then.