Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
If the next MBP doesnt have i5, Blu Ray & ATI say goodbye to highend consumers Apple!
- Thread starter wikoogle
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
More proof you don't know how to read. I wrote "2-3 years" not "2-3 times faster".
And please learn how to clarify your argument before trying to express a point. Your post could had easily been interpreted as separate dvd and blu-ray arguments.
But you're right. The data shows optical media on the decline. But I'm here to say that blu-ray is on the up, without signs of decline.
Does it even matter if I read that 2-3 years? Tell me how do broadband speeds effectively "double" in 2-3 years when in half that time, speeds actually decreased?
I bought a laptop, not an iMac. If I have to plug it in to do anything with it, remind me why I bought a laptop again?
Aside from the fact that you're wrong, why do you want it? Humans can't hear well enough to make use of all those bits.
The report doesn't make a distinction between the available broadband speeds and the observed broadband speeds. It's a recession, maybe some people decided to save money by going down to a slower package. That doesn't mean that speeds are decreasing, merely consumption.
Please, can you tell me why I am wrong? When is the last time you downloaded Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-MA HD? And yes, I can hear the difference. I cannot go back to DVD audio after blu-ray.
Do you honestly think broadband companies like Comcast and AT&T in rural America are pushing the envelope?
Just because you might want to plug it in for one particular use doesn't mean you have to for everything else, does it? You might want to plug it in when you run a software update too, that doesn't mean no-one should buy a laptop ever. It's not a case of "I have to plug it in to do anything with it" it's 'if I chose to do one particular thing with it'.
Why did you buy a car and not a bicycle if you have to drive to a station to fill it with fuel every so often?!
Anyway, my argument is not especially about Blu-ray on portable macs, just that Apple should support it properly in the OS, for whatever mac you want.
Oh, so you downloaded a 7.1 DTS-HD MA soundtrack to your 1080p movie? In under three minutes?
You know what....considering this is a laptop debate here...i somehow don't think they let you carry a full 7.1 system around and set it up in public places...train/plane/bus stop etc
in fact...i'm pretty sure on a laptop for ease of use the most your ever going to have is a set of high quality headphones....
Oh and to further your debate....i'm quite happy with 5.1 AC3 thanks...95% of consumers aren't going to give a rats ass or have the appropriately decent surround hardware to justifiably notice the difference. Those that do, are going to have a standalone blu-ray player with their speakers set up 'just so' in which case they aren't going to be using their laptop as a blu-ray player.
wow missed this one
"I cannot go back to DVD audio after blu-ray."
In that case you sir are cutting your nose off to spite your face.
If you can't hear the difference I would recommend taking a look at your system or the qualtiy of the components of your system.
The companies pushing the envelope, YES they are. Once amount I receive their envelope and my bandwidth doesn't increase but the amount I pay does, thank you charter I love you too, you POS provider
I'm not saying you can't hear the difference between a DVD (which usually sports lossily compressed audio) and non-lossy audio. I'm saying that HD audio features ranges many many times higher than what humans can hear, and is total overkill. A high quality audio/video format designed for downloading rather than physical distribution would take that into account and not include pointless data.
I think we're going off track here. The question is whether Blu-Ray adds value to a MBP.
Now, I've had a blu-ray player for 3 years now. I have it set up to my main HT (JVC-RS20 1080p projector, 110" Carada screen, and very expensive sound system). I appreciate the quality of blu-ray on this high-end set up but it is overkill for any LCD/Plasma (even top of the line). If you're watching a 50" TV, a 10Mb/s 1080p download will look exactly the same. Compression is also getting better, not worse. HD Audio will not make a difference for most consumers.
So what is the argument for blu-ray on laptops, with its lower quality and smaller TN displays, no surround sound, and the inconvenience of carrying physical discs around.
To take to a friend's house with a killer system? If your friend had a killer system, he would already have blu-ray.
To watch movies I already bought for my blu-ray player? Maybe, but how often do you want to rewatch movies on your laptop that you've already watched on your big screen?
Now, I've had a blu-ray player for 3 years now. I have it set up to my main HT (JVC-RS20 1080p projector, 110" Carada screen, and very expensive sound system). I appreciate the quality of blu-ray on this high-end set up but it is overkill for any LCD/Plasma (even top of the line). If you're watching a 50" TV, a 10Mb/s 1080p download will look exactly the same. Compression is also getting better, not worse. HD Audio will not make a difference for most consumers.
So what is the argument for blu-ray on laptops, with its lower quality and smaller TN displays, no surround sound, and the inconvenience of carrying physical discs around.
To take to a friend's house with a killer system? If your friend had a killer system, he would already have blu-ray.
To watch movies I already bought for my blu-ray player? Maybe, but how often do you want to rewatch movies on your laptop that you've already watched on your big screen?
The high sample rate is so that the inevitable aliasing that occurs in Digital conversion happens outside the audible frequency range... If sample rate were left at 44.1 khz there would be noticeable aliasing at times...
There is a difference between HD audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA HD), non-HD audio, and DVD audio.
DVDs are DD5.1 @ 448kb, which is pretty bad, so of course there is a difference between that and blu-ray. However, DTS @ 1.5Mb is a lot better and I doubt you can tell the difference without a very high end system.
So DTS @ 1.5Mb comes close to HD audio and uses 4-5 times less bandwidth.
From wikipedia:
Oh and FYI, there will be no HD audio if you get Blu-ray on the MBP. HD audio can only be transmitted through HDMI, not through an optical cable (and no, minidisplay to HDMI adapter won't help).
I'd like to contribute to the "Blu-Ray or not" discussion that it'd surely be nice to have a Blu-Ray player as most new off-the-shelf laptops at Best Buy like shops have one as well.
But you know what? I doubt it'll happen. Here's why:
I'd consider myself an Apple fanboy, yes I am. Unfortunately, my expectations have gone down the drain during the last 1-2 years. This will sound absolutely über-epic and cheesy like in a Braveheart movie or something, but you know what I want? If I pay $2000 (credit card is ready) for a laptop that the manufacturer considers PRO then ffs give me a PRO machine that's as superior in specs as the price tag is. Like in the old days, when a Powerbook was THE machine. I want a laptop that's just brutal, knowing the engineers have done everything in their power to justify the price tag. Knowing that other laptops will switch sidewalks because of discomfort and fear whenever they see a MBP approaching.
Apple's move to switch to x86 was very very nice. But right now (imho) the only remaining ace up their sleeve is OSX, not the hardware. Considering that Windows7 -heck, even Ubuntu- do a great (!) job and in my environment it doesn't really matter what OS you're using (writing my M.Sc. thesis in computer science) I'm playing with the thought to leave the Apple ship entirely. Maybe they should focus on their pro users (maybe even "older" users) more just like they do on their iPhone/iPad community.
Unless the new MBP line that I'm eagerly awaiting is one of those BRUTAL machines mentioned above - I bid farewell. I'm not willing to pay for a laptop the price of three just to get inferior specs. OSX alone doesn't justify that.
That's what really grinds my gears.
That is all.
But you know what? I doubt it'll happen. Here's why:
I'd consider myself an Apple fanboy, yes I am. Unfortunately, my expectations have gone down the drain during the last 1-2 years. This will sound absolutely über-epic and cheesy like in a Braveheart movie or something, but you know what I want? If I pay $2000 (credit card is ready) for a laptop that the manufacturer considers PRO then ffs give me a PRO machine that's as superior in specs as the price tag is. Like in the old days, when a Powerbook was THE machine. I want a laptop that's just brutal, knowing the engineers have done everything in their power to justify the price tag. Knowing that other laptops will switch sidewalks because of discomfort and fear whenever they see a MBP approaching.
Apple's move to switch to x86 was very very nice. But right now (imho) the only remaining ace up their sleeve is OSX, not the hardware. Considering that Windows7 -heck, even Ubuntu- do a great (!) job and in my environment it doesn't really matter what OS you're using (writing my M.Sc. thesis in computer science) I'm playing with the thought to leave the Apple ship entirely. Maybe they should focus on their pro users (maybe even "older" users) more just like they do on their iPhone/iPad community.
Unless the new MBP line that I'm eagerly awaiting is one of those BRUTAL machines mentioned above - I bid farewell. I'm not willing to pay for a laptop the price of three just to get inferior specs. OSX alone doesn't justify that.
That's what really grinds my gears.
That is all.
Icaras, don't waste your time arguing with these idiots.
Because it's clear that these people arguing against blu ray are very much in the minority, and the majority of people here OVERWHELMINGLY want the blu ray option.
The handful of vocal naysayers here are basically pissing in the wind, this happened back when people were pushing for dvd drives in desktops and laptops and even when people pushed for cds over vinyl records too. No one should be forced to repurchased all the movies they already bought on blu ray (sometimes for as little as $4 from gohastings) just to cater to them.
Those people will always be there. But they don't represent what the majority of the people want. And any company that abandons their high end audience to cater to them is destined to suffer and go the way of the do do.
Because it's clear that these people arguing against blu ray are very much in the minority, and the majority of people here OVERWHELMINGLY want the blu ray option.
The handful of vocal naysayers here are basically pissing in the wind, this happened back when people were pushing for dvd drives in desktops and laptops and even when people pushed for cds over vinyl records too. No one should be forced to repurchased all the movies they already bought on blu ray (sometimes for as little as $4 from gohastings) just to cater to them.
Those people will always be there. But they don't represent what the majority of the people want. And any company that abandons their high end audience to cater to them is destined to suffer and go the way of the do do.
They want the Blu-Ray option
I love polls like that because they're so easy to influence. Everyone wants the option of Blu-Ray. Who's going to say "no, I want less choice please"? What if the question was:
Do you want Blue Ray on the next generation Mac laptops? (yes, no, don't know).
What about:
Do you want Blue Ray on the next generation Mac laptops if it increases the cost by $200? (yes, no, don't know).
But even more damning, look in the comments on that thread:
"I'm do want to have Blu-ray. Cause now when I edit my movie and want to see it on my big screen I have to attach my macbook to see it in HD, while I have a Playstation 3 that can do it and is always there. "
"I voted yes since there was no "ditching the optical alternative"."
"I didn't vote because there was no "I don't care" choice. Otherwise, I suppose the choice would be for Apple to provide the choice, and I'd support that as long as it didn't affect the cost of MY next MBP purchase. "
"This is what my plasma is for. I hate watching movies on my laptop. "
"Given I have a PS3 and have hardly even watched Blu Ray on my big screen TV, I can't see much use in a BD drive... and they're known to be fragile too ie. failures are not uncommon."
So one guy says, as I suspected, that his answer would be different if affected by the price. One guy says that he only voted yes because there was no "get rid of all optical media drives". One guy says that he voted for the choice, but he doesn't care about Blu-Ray. Others just outright say "no".
That poll asked entirely the wrong question. To point to it in support of Blu-ray is absurd.
What kind of i5 CPU? Arrandale? Or a power hungry beastly CPU? I have no desire to have a brick that burns my crotch and sounds like a Lear Jet. What *kind* of high resolution screen? Is it power efficient? What kind of battery life does this Gateway have?
Problem is that price aside, it's not hard to build a laptop with better specs that isn't a better laptop.
Well done, you've nearly got it. Oh, then you missed it again.
Yes we want the option. Somehow that always ends up being offensive to some of the people who would choose not to take up that option, who then go on and on about how only idiots would want to use a computer in different circumstances than they would. Bit weird really.
Ah, nothing like a fresh cup of joe and a blu-ray argument in the morning
Again, you're thinking inside the box. I had a chuckle from the portable 7.1 sound system, but obviously you can't take that with you. Though I can certainly carry my laptop to a place that has 7.1 audio systems and the power in the portability of a laptop you just mentioned, is that I'm not isolated to one home theater system in one room. I have a 5.1 system in my studio and a 7.1 DDHD/DTS-HD in the living room, both of which makes proper blu-ray viewing possible with a blu-ray equipped laptop. What about at a friend's home theater system? Or at an office? You get the idea.
Sure, if you're on the go.
And I'm sure you are. But just about every receiver being produced today is lossless audio right out of the box. Buy yourself a $0.01 cent HDMI cable on Amazon and your set for the most pristine audio you will ever hear.
And your last statement is practical and makes sense. What can I say? It would just be nice to have.
But sir, how else do I tell you? I really cannot go back to lossy audio after listening to lossless. I'm sorry, but I can most absolutely hear that difference. And some of the people above me have explained it better.
Really, can I even make a convincing counter argument to you if I assume that all you've ever heard in your life is standard DVD audio and have never heard of a lossless sound mix through a beefy sound system? No, I don't think I really can
Agreed, but I still would like to have it, and I'm sure others would too. Hence, why blu-ray should simply have long been be a CTO option by Apple at this point. That could have saved countless discussion and argument threads. But Apple sure has a way of stirring controversy in the masses, don't they?
Your arguments all have valid reasons. Though I still believe that carrying a 5lb blu-ray powerhouse wherever you can go with the ability to drive it through any external equipment you can take it to, should be considered a strength, not a weakness.
Also don't forget professionals, as the movie industry as a whole has been moving toward blu-ray support. In a growing market for blu-ray, a "pro" system should give access to professionals for blu-ray authoring, shouldn't it?
Unfortunately, you're right. This is where I believe Lightpeak will make things clearer however...
And lets get it straight: The super high end movie/audio/video buffs/enthusiast market will never cease to exist. NEVER. They have been here since the beginning of Betamax, through Laserdisc, to DVD, HD-DVD, and now to blu-ray. Electronics companies like Pioneer, Sony, Denon, Onkyo, and Samsung will always have the hardcore movie consumer to spend sh*t loads of money on their highest end gear.
The Best Buy Magnolia employee who sold me my gear, loved to share to me his passion for audio/video and this is a guy who owns a $2000 supercube woofer from Definitive Technology. Its unbelievable. You're not going to rob these enthusiasts of this passion, ever.
And just because digital downloads are growing, doesn't mean its doom and gloom for blu-ray at all, given that hard core market mentioned. I'll be frank: I am all for digital downloads, but not at this stage of the game. Mainstream consumer access to the picture and audio perfect blu-ray quality is not readily available for digital downloads, and again, the broadband infrastructure is not there for everyone. But I'm pretty sure, there is a Best Buy (no less, a Walmart) in just about every neighborhood.
Again, you're thinking inside the box. I had a chuckle from the portable 7.1 sound system, but obviously you can't take that with you. Though I can certainly carry my laptop to a place that has 7.1 audio systems and the power in the portability of a laptop you just mentioned, is that I'm not isolated to one home theater system in one room. I have a 5.1 system in my studio and a 7.1 DDHD/DTS-HD in the living room, both of which makes proper blu-ray viewing possible with a blu-ray equipped laptop. What about at a friend's home theater system? Or at an office? You get the idea.
Sure, if you're on the go.
And I'm sure you are. But just about every receiver being produced today is lossless audio right out of the box. Buy yourself a $0.01 cent HDMI cable on Amazon and your set for the most pristine audio you will ever hear.
And your last statement is practical and makes sense. What can I say? It would just be nice to have.
But sir, how else do I tell you? I really cannot go back to lossy audio after listening to lossless. I'm sorry, but I can most absolutely hear that difference. And some of the people above me have explained it better.
Really, can I even make a convincing counter argument to you if I assume that all you've ever heard in your life is standard DVD audio and have never heard of a lossless sound mix through a beefy sound system? No, I don't think I really can
Agreed, but I still would like to have it, and I'm sure others would too. Hence, why blu-ray should simply have long been be a CTO option by Apple at this point. That could have saved countless discussion and argument threads. But Apple sure has a way of stirring controversy in the masses, don't they?
Your arguments all have valid reasons. Though I still believe that carrying a 5lb blu-ray powerhouse wherever you can go with the ability to drive it through any external equipment you can take it to, should be considered a strength, not a weakness.
Also don't forget professionals, as the movie industry as a whole has been moving toward blu-ray support. In a growing market for blu-ray, a "pro" system should give access to professionals for blu-ray authoring, shouldn't it?
Unfortunately, you're right. This is where I believe Lightpeak will make things clearer however...
And lets get it straight: The super high end movie/audio/video buffs/enthusiast market will never cease to exist. NEVER. They have been here since the beginning of Betamax, through Laserdisc, to DVD, HD-DVD, and now to blu-ray. Electronics companies like Pioneer, Sony, Denon, Onkyo, and Samsung will always have the hardcore movie consumer to spend sh*t loads of money on their highest end gear.
The Best Buy Magnolia employee who sold me my gear, loved to share to me his passion for audio/video and this is a guy who owns a $2000 supercube woofer from Definitive Technology. Its unbelievable. You're not going to rob these enthusiasts of this passion, ever.
And just because digital downloads are growing, doesn't mean its doom and gloom for blu-ray at all, given that hard core market mentioned. I'll be frank: I am all for digital downloads, but not at this stage of the game. Mainstream consumer access to the picture and audio perfect blu-ray quality is not readily available for digital downloads, and again, the broadband infrastructure is not there for everyone. But I'm pretty sure, there is a Best Buy (no less, a Walmart) in just about every neighborhood.
If I may add one more argument:
iTunes currently sells HD quality movies for what? $14.99 to $19.99?
Most of the blu-rays I've purchased were from $9.99 to $14.99. AND at 1080p resolution, AND at lossless audio.
Considering these factors, this is the reason why I choose blu-ray. Better quality, cheaper prices. And we all know price will have the ultimate say in how consumers spend their money.
If you want digital downloads to take off, it needs to be legal, viable, and CHEAP. As far as I see, competition is fierce, and studios will only continue aggressive blu-ray pricing in 2010.
iTunes currently sells HD quality movies for what? $14.99 to $19.99?
Most of the blu-rays I've purchased were from $9.99 to $14.99. AND at 1080p resolution, AND at lossless audio.
Considering these factors, this is the reason why I choose blu-ray. Better quality, cheaper prices. And we all know price will have the ultimate say in how consumers spend their money.
If you want digital downloads to take off, it needs to be legal, viable, and CHEAP. As far as I see, competition is fierce, and studios will only continue aggressive blu-ray pricing in 2010.
Not to mention the DRM on the iTunes download, meaning it will only play in a few computers, if more than 1. The blu-ray disc will play in any BR player out there with the proper region code (millions vs "count on the fingers of 1 hand"). For this reason alone, I wouldn't pay 20$ for an iTunes download. Screw DRM.
Driving down to the store to buy the films is also a much better overall experience, and is usually quicker too.
Ah, nothing like a fresh cup of joe and a blu-ray argument in the morning
Again, you're thinking inside the box. I had a chuckle from the portable 7.1 sound system, but obviously you can't take that with you. Though I can certainly carry my laptop to a place that has 7.1 audio systems and the power in the portability of a laptop you just mentioned, is that I'm not isolated to one home theater system in one room. I have a 5.1 system in my studio and a 7.1 DDHD/DTS-HD in the living room, both of which makes proper blu-ray viewing possible with a blu-ray equipped laptop. What about at a friend's home theater system? Or at an office? You get the idea.
Sure, if you're on the go.
And I'm sure you are. But just about every receiver being produced today is lossless audio right out of the box. Buy yourself a $0.01 cent HDMI cable on Amazon and your set for the most pristine audio you will ever hear.
And your last statement is practical and makes sense. What can I say? It would just be nice to have.
But sir, how else do I tell you? I really cannot go back to lossy audio after listening to lossless. I'm sorry, but I can most absolutely hear that difference. And some of the people above me have explained it better.
Really, can I even make a convincing counter argument to you if I assume that all you've ever heard in your life is standard DVD audio and have never heard of a lossless sound mix through a beefy sound system? No, I don't think I really can
Agreed, but I still would like to have it, and I'm sure others would too. Hence, why blu-ray should simply have long been be a CTO option by Apple at this point. That could have saved countless discussion and argument threads. But Apple sure has a way of stirring controversy in the masses, don't they?
Your arguments all have valid reasons. Though I still believe that carrying a 5lb blu-ray powerhouse wherever you can go with the ability to drive it through any external equipment you can take it to, should be considered a strength, not a weakness.
Also don't forget professionals, as the movie industry as a whole has been moving toward blu-ray support. In a growing market for blu-ray, a "pro" system should give access to professionals for blu-ray authoring, shouldn't it?
Unfortunately, you're right. This is where I believe Lightpeak will make things clearer however...
And lets get it straight: The super high end movie/audio/video buffs/enthusiast market will never cease to exist. NEVER. They have been here since the beginning of Betamax, through Laserdisc, to DVD, HD-DVD, and now to blu-ray. Electronics companies like Pioneer, Sony, Denon, Onkyo, and Samsung will always have the hardcore movie consumer to spend sh*t loads of money on their highest end gear.
The Best Buy Magnolia employee who sold me my gear, loved to share to me his passion for audio/video and this is a guy who owns a $2000 supercube woofer from Definitive Technology. Its unbelievable. You're not going to rob these enthusiasts of this passion, ever.
And just because digital downloads are growing, doesn't mean its doom and gloom for blu-ray at all, given that hard core market mentioned. I'll be frank: I am all for digital downloads, but not at this stage of the game. Mainstream consumer access to the picture and audio perfect blu-ray quality is not readily available for digital downloads, and again, the broadband infrastructure is not there for everyone. But I'm pretty sure, there is a Best Buy (no less, a Walmart) in just about every neighborhood.
about all this blu-ray thing im partly against it as it would set production price up and guess who is going to pay for it? I would much rather like the optical drive removed to make space for better hardware. An external optical drive be it blu-ray or dvd could then be plugged in.¨
but again i don't see any reason to why using you computer to watch blu-rays or even dvds instead of on a dvd/blu-ray player. But then again that is just my opinion yours might be different i just don't see any logic in your reasoning but i guess we are just all different