iFixit Finds 2019 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Subtle' Changes to Membrane Cover and Switches

[57004]

I think with anything, you get used to it. I've adapted to my keyboard. It seems to me a lot of people who complain about this keyboard tried it, but don't actually have it. (Obviously my opinion, not based on fact or a generalizing assumption).

I have a butterfly MBP at work but it's stuck in my drawer as a 'loaner' because of the keyboard. I find it horrible to type on. I use an iMac with an older-gen USB keyboard now.

I don't want to spend days getting used to it as you have. A computer is a tool for people, we shouldn't have to adjust to it. It should be adjusted to us. It's called ergonomics, something that Apple has forgotten about since Jony Ive's focus on thin and cute design above everything. It's the same with the "Magic" mouse, I can't use it (I have RSI and it literally hurts to use it because it's so flat and offers no palm arch support).

I tried using it for a few days in the beginning but as I also work with Lenovo thinkpads which have the best keyboards available on laptops I was constantly reminded of the difference and the MBP (as well as the "Magic" keyboard of my iMac) ended up in that drawer.

 

[Vanilla35]

Already did that. A new laptop that come immediately with a repair program.

Absolutely insane. I feel really bad for the general public who are inevitably buying these devices.

 

[cggobbler]

Next stop, 1mm thickness decrease, haptic glass keyboard, no port exchanged by wireless charging with 10 hour of charging time, -1 repairability level by ifixit because it explodes when someone try to peek its internal (privacy-oriented booyeah), and bendgate because our factories need to decrease the alloy's quality to keep up with the trade tax.

I really miss Steve's product line-ups.

 

[not_anton]

Having received a full refund thanks to EU consumer law, an incredibly long process that Apple actively tries to make progressively more difficult for you to complete, there is no way in hell I am purchasing this. I’m laughing out loud at the idiots that have also had keyboard problems and are now going to buy the 2019 machine. Insanity. Wake up.

I got a free keyboard repair of my 2016 MBP 15", no questions asked + got a brand new battery as they replaced the upper case. Keyboard warranty is 4 years for everyone, even if you did not take an extended warranty option.

Maybe your life would be simpler if you just use the laptop, and fix it when necessary?

 

[BigMcGuire]

I have a butterfly MBP at work but it's stuck in my drawer as a 'loaner' because of the keyboard. I find it horrible to type on. I use an iMac with an older-gen USB keyboard now.

I don't want to spend days getting used to it as you have. A computer is a tool for people, we shouldn't have to adjust to it. It should be adjusted to us. It's called ergonomics, something that Apple has forgotten about since Jony Ive's focus on thin and cute design above everything. It's the same with the "Magic" mouse, I can't use it (I have RSI and it literally hurts to use it because it's so flat and offers no palm arch support).

I tried using it for a few days in the beginning but as I also work with Lenovo thinkpads which have the best keyboards available on laptops I was constantly reminded of the difference and the MBP (as well as the "Magic" keyboard of my iMac) ended up in that drawer.

No worries. I completely understand and can respect your decision. The Magic Mouse is horrible. I can’t use it for more than an hour without pain myself. ThinkPads are great great laptops. .

 

[panjandrum]

I have a butterfly MBP at work but it's stuck in my drawer as a 'loaner' because of the keyboard. I find it horrible to type on. I use an iMac with an older-gen USB keyboard now.

I don't want to spend days getting used to it as you have. A computer is a tool for people, we shouldn't have to adjust to it. It should be adjusted to us. It's called ergonomics, something that Apple has forgotten about since Jony Ive's focus on thin and cute design above everything. It's the same with the "Magic" mouse, I can't use it (I have RSI and it literally hurts to use it because it's so flat and offers no palm arch support).

Yeah, it's sad that we are at this point. Historically Apple's keyboards have ranged from good to excellent. I never dreamed they would create a keyboard so bad that it's derided by the industry and shunned by people who actually need their systems to be productivity-enhancing rather than productivity-crippling. I've been an excellent typist since my early teens, and have used an absurd array of keyboards. I could tell very quickly that the Butterfly keyboard would forever slow me down. I'll never "adjust" to it, because it's a piece of unmitigated crappola. It would be like trying to race a YUGO as fast as you can race a 911. Sure, you could eventually learn to drive the YUGO as fast as it can go, but you'll never, ever, be able to drive it as fast as the 911.

Mice, on the other hand, are an item that Apple has never really gotten right. Even under Jobs the focus on design over function has relegated their mice to the position of "replace with a real mouse ASAP" in my book. The Magic Mouse is especially difficult to use compared to any standard mouse, but it's really, really awful for anyone elderly. I do a heck of a lot of tutoring, and I'm continually having clients replace their Magic Mouse with a decent Logitech or Microsoft mouse (or whatever else they think they will like) because they have such a difficult time mastering basic functions with the Magic Mouse.

That isn't to say that there aren't still some real positives to Apple's equipment (and software), but those positives are diminishing at an astonishing rate. The butterfly keyboard just happens to be one of the most clear-cut examples of this trend.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Yeah, it's sad that we are at this point. Historically Apple's keyboards have ranged from good to excellent. I never dreamed they would create a keyboard so bad that it's derided by the industry and shunned by people who actually need their systems to be productivity-enhancing rather than productivity-crippling. I've been an excellent typist since my early teens, and have used an absurd array of keyboards. I could tell very quickly that the Butterfly keyboard would forever slow me down. I'll never "adjust" to it, because it's a piece of unmitigated crappola. It's would be like trying to race a YUGO as fast as you can race a 911. Sure, you could eventually learn to drive the YUGO as it can go, but you'll never, ever, be able to drive it as fast as the 911.

Mice, on the other hand, are an item that Apple has never really gotten right. Even under Jobs the focus on design over function has relegated their mice to the position of "replace with a real mouse ASAP" in my book. The Magic Mouse is especially difficult to use compared to any standard mouse, but it's really, really awful for anyone elderly. I do a heck of a lot of tutoring, and I'm continually having clients replace their Magic Mouse with a decent Logitech or Microsoft mouse (or whatever else they think they will like) because they have such a difficult time mastering basic functions with the Magic Mouse.

That isn't to say that there aren't still some real positives to Apple's equipment (and software), but those positives are diminishing at an astonishing rate. The butterfly keyboard just happens to be one of the most clear-cut examples of this trend.

Great post even if I don’t agree with all of it - I enjoyed reading it. I’d object at the keyboard being compared to a yugo - I can type really fast with this keyboard with a lot less effort but yeah someone who hasn’t gotten used to it - I can see the yugo comparison.

Nice post!

 

[jeyf]

I wanna know how they got the 8 core 14nm cpu 10° C cooler

maybe apple didn't

bottom line is:
Apple; you have to be really really nieve to believe them at this point. there is a whole industry that springs out of the wood work to blow away a new apple product intro
court enforced class action law suites are the only innovation Apple seems to be able to do
Apple iTunes is the new Kenmore brand.

 

[AnonMac50]

Remember the days when Apple was producing laptops with reliable keyboard?

View attachment 838811

Amazing keyboards, these, especially the one on the left.

 

[zorinlynx]

Amazing keyboards, these, especially the one on the left.

Work just issued me a 15" mid-2014 MBP with 16GB of RAM that has hardly any use on it. 22 charge cycles on the battery! I am absolutely loving it, and this is going to let me put off the butterfly keyboard for at least another few years.

Holy crap, real USB ports, no dongles.
Holy crap, magsafe.
Holy crap, SD card reader.

I'd gladly use this forever if it got OS updates and support forever.

EDIT: Also, it's amazingly plenty fast for today's tasks still. Computers really have had better longevity this decade than ever before. I remember when using a four year old laptop was utter punishment. Now it's... better than using a new one, at least when it comes to Macbook Pros.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Remember the days when Apple was producing laptops with reliable keyboard?

View attachment 838811

What's more shocking is before both the 2008 and 2012 MBP designs Apple was able to make a slim keyboard laptop that was almost completely flush with the palm wrest with no keyboard issues: PowerBook G4 Titanium.
[doublepost=1558833693][/doublepost]

... But this keyboard is a failed experiment that Apple refuses to give up on. It's not just because it's plagued with durability issues. It's also just unsatisfying to use.

As someone old enough to have learned touch-typing on Manual Typewriter before ever using computers from 1984 on-ward ... I have to ask you ... when ever was "typing" ever satisfying to use? lol. There are some great keyboards on laptops out there ... X1 5th generation I'd say was amongst the best I've every used, G4 TiBook as well, and I actually enjoyed the 2018 MBP 13". Yet for typing ... I've always felt very restricted since my thoughts are always 5-10 words ahead of what I'm typing.

 

[Val-kyrie]

That’s why you don’t trust a repair technician to analyze these things.

An actual engineer could take the components from both keyboards and determine exactly what the differences are, why they were made and what benefits resulted from the changes.

These guys are just guessing because “it looks different”.

iFixit did actually take the keyboard components to at least two engineers for analysis. Watch their latest video.

 

[Count Blah]

For a portable they are pretty heavy. I have a 2010 that I had to go to buy an air for school because it was just much to drag around all day.

Agreed. I took my cMBP on business trips, back in the day. Granted it wasn't hte lightest, but I also wasn't moving it every day. Likewise, I would get something lighter if I was moving it all the time. But mine is effectively stationary now and it's still getting it done.

 

[rodsterinfla]

I just purchased a 2018 macbook pro 2.6 last week with applecare + for $500 off. Is this keyboard change and 10% faster CPU (single core) worth a return and $500 more cost? I don't see it but I invite opinion as I am in my return/exchange period.

BTW, I had a 2014 pro and I had keyboard issues- and a sticky spacebar on the pro before that one- a 2010 I believe. The one before that one burned up internally and they refunded me completely. It was my first modern macbook after the curvy black model thunderbird or whatever it was called. The refund I put on my first pro model.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I just purchased a 2018 macbook pro 2.6 last week with applecare + for $500 off. Is this keyboard change and 10% faster CPU (single core) worth a return and $500 more cost? I don't see it but I invite opinion as I am in my return/exchange period.

BTW, I had a 2014 pro and I had keyboard issues- and a sticky spacebar on the pro before that one- a 2010 I believe. The one before that one burned up internally and they refunded me completely. It was my first modern macbook after the curvy black model thunderbird or whatever it was called. The refund I put on my first pro model.

Yeah I've actually known people who had problems with the 2008 MacBook keyboard... and I think a 2010... but I don't know anyone who has had problems with the 2016+ keyboard (not using this as scientific generalizing evidence, just my experience).

My 2015 MBA was my most beloved laptop because it was so easy to take everywhere and so light, I didn't even feel it in my backpack. My 2017 MBP is a little heavier but very thin. I couldn't imagine hauling around a 2008 MacBook. The 2018 Air is 2.75 pounds and the Pro is 3.02 I think.

I'd keep your 2018. My 2017 is going strong and I expect to get 5-6 (or more) years out of it before I upgrade again.

 

[Analog Kid]

Next stop, 1mm thickness decrease, haptic glass keyboard, no port exchanged by wireless charging with 10 hour of charging time, -1 repairability level by ifixit because it explodes when someone try to peek its internal (privacy-oriented booyeah), and bendgate because our factories need to decrease the alloy's quality to keep up with the trade tax.

I really miss Steve's product line-ups.

One port, ultra thin, soldered RAM...

 

[technole]

4th generation keyboard. Gotta go all-in.

 

[WolfSnap]

I am complaining that APPLE is selling computers with a LEMON keyboard. Companies that sell cars that are LEMONS, they have recalls and are forced to repair them.
I still have a 2012 Laptop that I never had a single issue with the keyboard. All Apple Laptops 2016+ are Lemons and that is why there is a class action lawsuit.

IT is sad that you are trying to excuse Apple for a Pathetic Macbook design.

Again, do you actually read what you're writing?

I have a 2016 MBP.. I have zero issues with the keyboard. None. Zilch. Nada. So, right there, your overly generalized statement that *ALL* apple laptops are lemons is shown to be nothing more than an oversimplification, and an outright lie.

Apple is warrantying their keyboard for 4 years. That's the reason you claim cars that are LEMONS aren't as big of an issue.. Apple *IS* repairing the keyboards, if needed. But, a company as large as Apple isn't just offering up a 4 year warranty for ***** and giggles... They're doing it because they know the failure rate is WAY lower than you are trying to claim it is.

 

[tele-fragd]

That’s why you don’t trust a repair technician to analyze these things.

An actual engineer could take the components from both keyboards and determine exactly what the differences are, why they were made and what benefits resulted from the changes.

These guys are just guessing because “it looks different”.

Did you watch the iFixit video? You'll be pleased to know that they actually did interview several engineers, got them to perform material analysis and give their thoughts on the design.

 

[kreasonos]

Ya no thanks, I'll stick with my thinkpad.

 

[Peperino]

Again, do you actually read what you're writing?

I have a 2016 MBP.. I have zero issues with the keyboard. None. Zilch. Nada. So, right there, your overly generalized statement that *ALL* apple laptops are lemons is shown to be nothing more than an oversimplification, and an outright lie.

Apple is warrantying their keyboard for 4 years. That's the reason you claim cars that are LEMONS aren't as big of an issue.. Apple *IS* repairing the keyboards, if needed. But, a company as large as Apple isn't just offering up a 4 year warranty for ***** and giggles... They're doing it because they know the failure rate is WAY lower than you are trying to claim it is.

It is NOT a generalized statement.
If you actually READ what I wrote, I said that the Keyboard is a lemon. That you have no problems does NOT mean that the butterfly design was a complete flaw from the begining.

- SO much so that there are several class action lawsuits.
- So much so Apple actually apologized for the bad keyboard performance.
- So much so that Apple actually revised the design 4 times. And up to the 3rd time was still having issues.
- So much so that Apple actually include the 2019 just released MBP in the repair program.

If the rate of failure was as low as you claim, there would not have been class action lawsuits, Apple would not even care to apologize and Apple would not have revised 4 times the same design if it worked as good as you are saying it is working. I still own an MBP from 2012, never had a single issue with the keyboard and the design was never revised because it always worked great.

 

[AnonMac50]

Work just issued me a 15" mid-2014 MBP with 16GB of RAM that has hardly any use on it. 22 charge cycles on the battery! I am absolutely loving it, and this is going to let me put off the butterfly keyboard for at least another few years.

Holy crap, real USB ports, no dongles.
Holy crap, magsafe.
Holy crap, SD card reader.

I'd gladly use this forever if it got OS updates and support forever.

EDIT: Also, it's amazingly plenty fast for today's tasks still. Computers really have had better longevity this decade than ever before. I remember when using a four year old laptop was utter punishment. Now it's... better than using a new one, at least when it comes to Macbook Pros.

Yup! I have a top-spec 2013/2014 (11,3) model, and it is amazing how great it runs. As long as it still works, I'll gladly keep using it!

 

[tubomac]

I'm quoting the God of design who used to say:

"What we make testifies who we are. People can sense care and can sense carelessness. This relates to respect for each other and carelessness is personally offensive." *​

Sorry Jonny because for a moment I just thought you didn't give a s*** about us. Or, maybe, you just care a lot, but only about our wallets to be precise, so you can buy your seventh Rolls Royce while I just strugglle with my silly keyboard wondering if there is another company in the milky way who is able to fail for the fourth time delivering that kind of joke of yours. Shame on you!

* These words should be carved on marble by the door of all Apple stores.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Except there are laptops as thin or thinner than the MacBook that don’t have keyboard issues.

I honestly can't see how that matters when Apple has had this many cracks at fixing the problem and still hasn't fixed it. When you try to solve something in a particular way and just keep failing at it, eventually you have admit that you don't know how to solve it that way and need to come up with another way of solving it.

...

None of your long list of excuses makes the fact that they genuinely did bungle the latest and thinnest version of the circlet keyboard any better. If anything, it's evidence of their design method simply not being fit for purpose.

If something is broken you're supposed to fix it and if you can't because of the way you do things, then that's not really an excuse. In this instance could easily have reverted the design as they obviously had all the necessary parts still in production for spares. With the case all they would have had to change is the design the milling machines work based on.

 

[SoulBlighter]

Work just issued me a 15" mid-2014 MBP with 16GB of RAM that has hardly any use on it. 22 charge cycles on the battery! I am absolutely loving it, and this is going to let me put off the butterfly keyboard for at least another few years.

Holy crap, real USB ports, no dongles.
Holy crap, magsafe.
Holy crap, SD card reader.

I'd gladly use this forever if it got OS updates and support forever.

EDIT: Also, it's amazingly plenty fast for today's tasks still. Computers really have had better longevity this decade than ever before. I remember when using a four year old laptop was utter punishment. Now it's... better than using a new one, at least when it comes to Macbook Pros.

I feel that way. Magsafe has save me from 2 major tragedies- and the power cord simply tore away.

I made friends with a startup company down the hall from me. The CEO bought everyone new 2017 MBPs. A year later, the CTO sold his team's 2017s and bought the "latest/max specced" 2015s but they were becoming hard and harder to find. Finally got them and never looked back.

Do you think Apple has their own forum where all they do is talk about how great everything they do is- As a product manager myself, I am really wondering how do companies get feedback from customers? 4 years now we have this "new" design.

How do you balance what Henry Ford said against what customers say/want/need- remember he said "If I'd have asked what people wanted they would have said faster horses".