It would be more logical to let other people try it out first.
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iFixit Finds 2019 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Subtle' Changes to Membrane Cover and Switches
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It would be more logical to let other people try it out first.
I don't think you've read anything I shared. Neither Consumer Reports nor Which? are affiliated with Apple in any way. The AI data was provided by sources in a variety of Apple Stores and third party repair centers-- not from Apple corporate. You keep saying "only Apple has the data", this is as close as you'll get to it without it passing through an official spokesperson's allegedly lying lips.
Can you share statistics of how many people are having repeated issues with this keyboard? You seem to have a lot of faith in the reliability of your own sources-- it would be a shame if they turned out to be anecdotal...
Not everyone else is going to have the same need and preferences as yourself, much less the same typing style, finger pressure, not to mention work environment.
Is the news in Australia investigating and giving supporting evidence, or are they reporting that people are complaining. There's a big difference.
Apple holds on to the same MBP design for a minimum of 4 years, which seems to be how long it takes for them to design the next major revision. Why does it take that long? I don't know, but maybe it's perhaps laptops just aren't a big enough business for them to invest the resources needed for annual major designs. Maybe they just need four years to recoup the high R&D expense for each major re-design. Perhaps they don't sell enough laptops to make it worth their while to re-design every year?
In the meantime, they tweak designs and push spec updates. They have never changed any single part significantly between major revisions, even if they run into some sort of fiasco like the keyboard. Instead, they try to fix the problem through minor changes that don't require changing the form factor. You see that same design philosophy with all of their other hardware. The old iPhone 6 design lasted through to the iPhone 8. The old iPad form factors were kept even after introducing the iPad Pro 2018's, which meant no Apple Pencil 2's for anything but the 2018 Pros. Until they completely re-engineer the non-Pros from scratch, they will continue to be spec change updates. Just shrinking the Pros to 10.5" and 9.7" and 7.9" simply isn't as easy as just shrinking the components and the chassis. They require complete design overhaul because there isn't a millimeter of space that goes to waste. It's a lot easier to make a bigger iPad than a smaller one, especially when it comes to thermals.
It's not like Apple hasn't done anything in four years. We've had four revisions of that same keyboard in four years, simply because they're restrained by the rest of the laptop's design. They can't radically change the keyboard without radically changing the exterior and interior. Changing the keyboard is a lot harder than just changing the keyboard because it causes a cascade of other issues. I've seen a lot of people wonder why they don't just pop in their older chiclet keyboard. The reason is because it wouldn't fit and if they tried to make it fit, they'd have to re-design the whole laptop.
When Apple does change something, they change everything about it. Until that happens, do not expect any change in the keyboard's form factor. You can almost guarantee the alleged 16" MBP will have a new keyboard, but only because they could change anything they wanted to without being constrained by an older form factor.
Seems to me that the burden of proof would be on Apple just like for every other seller of any product.
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So people should risk their money on a product they have low confidence in? It’s not like buying a piece of fruit at the grocery store.
I would have to disagree here. Apple sells millions upon millions of these laptops every year. Repair numbers show that this laptop, with the supposed keyboard issues counted, is in for repair less than previous models.
So you're looking like someone who wants to pick a fight without much to stand on.
If you don't have confidence in the product, don't buy it. Meanwhile, others who don't buy into unproven sensational claims are enjoying great laptops with great service (as my wife and I are) - by the millions.
Hey, you're free to run your life how you see fit and I wish you a great weekend.
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I didn't say that. If you get one, keep it longer than 14 days and a problem arises, it is covered under warranty.
You could buy it and decide on day 2, that you don't like the feel and execution of the keys and return the unit. You could buy it, like it, and never have a problem.
Agreed. You would think there aren't any Apple updates when you read the forums here. Heck, at least I know when a Windows update happens. With power nap, Apple just updates as needed. And when you don't install sometimes, weird things happen with Safari etc that clear up after the update and reboot. I don't see much of a difference.
At the end of the day they’re a sales company and they need to keep selling so they’ll do what they need to, to keep the coins coming in. The products are obviously becoming appliances that just get thrown out once they live their 2, 3 year life and you have to buy a new one, instead of replacing a screen or keyboard. The keyboard might be all new, new internals, but with half of the damn thing pretty much in one piece, you can’t fix them like you used to so you’re forced to buy a new one. It’s the way they want to go.
I’m in the corner for nostalgia. I like the old Macs, my last purchase was a 2014 Mini and I think about Linux more and more these days and getting out of the eco system
I’m in the corner for nostalgia. I like the old Macs, my last purchase was a 2014 Mini and I think about Linux more and more these days and getting out of the eco system
Steve publicly presented a lot of swagger. But your statement of "Apple got successful by not listening to customers" is absurd. It is required for any successful enterprise.
Henry Ford was a different time and a completely different set of circumstances. With Henry Ford, he was the first to mass produce an automobile. Apple is no where near that revolutionary. Steve was not even in that league, regardless of his ego.
Why should I buy something that I have a reasonable expectation will fail unnecessarily even if it is covered under warranty? The most expensive part of dealing with a problem is the lost of productive time and the hassle. I’m not going to buy a car with a 20 year bumper to bumper warranty if I have a reasonable expectation it has to be in the repair shop every few months for major repairs. The company isn’t going to compensate me for my lost time and work. Now life is a gamble and unforeseen problems come up so at some point time will be wasted despite the best plans but I’m not going to purchase something that I expect ahead of time will have problems before its expected lifetime is over. It isn’t worth the hassle to me. Perhaps you and others prefer to take the risk but I don’t think my position is unreasonable.
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Why are you making this personal?
Genuine question. How do you manage this risk normally? As even a super reliable computer has some failures...
Pheeww thanks for clarifying that there is obviously nothing wrong with any of the previous keyboard designs. It's the most logical assessment I've read the whole week. Peace of mind.
Just a shame they have no mag safe, or useable USB, or standardised storage interface, or standardised RAM, planned obsolescence by any means necessary and are ridiculously priced. Otherwise I'd buy one again. But no way until they fix up.
Sent from an 11 year "vintage" core 2 duo that ran software sold then far faster than iQuivalence runs on software sold today... with absolutely no benefit to production.
**** New Apple they ****ed up hard.
Sent from an 11 year "vintage" core 2 duo that ran software sold then far faster than iQuivalence runs on software sold today... with absolutely no benefit to production.
**** New Apple they ****ed up hard.
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There will be no true statistical data for failures by Apple. So asking anyone to prove one way or another is simply picking an internet forum fight.
But, not relying on statistics, I would think a keyboard repair extension for 2016, 2017, 2018,and 2019 keyboards across ALL models would speak for itself. Statistics or not.
But, not relying on statistics, I would think a keyboard repair extension for 2016, 2017, 2018,and 2019 keyboards across ALL models would speak for itself. Statistics or not.
Your definition of "reasonable expectation to fail" hardly reasonable when stats show this laptop is in for repair less than previous models, including keyboard issues. Not trying to make this personal.
If you think the sky is going to fall, by all means, don't go outside if it makes you feel better.
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That's not logical, you can't say because something, this. Did you even read the links from Apple Insider? I'll assume that is a no as your statements speak for itself (love this form of logic).
I would think that's a company standing behind their product, something few companies do anymore today.
Obviously you can never eliminate risk completely but you can certainly mitigate it by waiting until the issue is vetted by others who are more willing to take the risk. I’m not taking the position that others should be dissuaded from taking the risk but at the same time those same people shouldn’t be trying to persuade others who don’t want to take the risk to take it.
I wish the focus was on "better" keyboards. As someone who was typing 150wpm+ out of high school, I went through keyboards regularly. Keyboards over the last 5-10 years have really taken a dump in quality, this includes laptop keyboards.
As far as Apple's keyboard. I have my opinions - they're far from factual, but I don't think "better" was a primary thought - less space was probably primary.
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The only quotes of stats I've seen so far are from Apple Insider's articles.
You gotta do what you think is best with the data that you've collected. If you believe you're doing the best thing, then great. We're all different. I also use an XPS 15 - besides the infrequent blue screens, overheating, and shutdowns, it's a great laptop with a great screen. During Black Friday last year, my work bought it for me to use. Every company has issues - having both the XPS 15 and a 17 MBP - I get to see both sides of the coin a little. (My little brother has an XPS 13).