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I would only take my machine to Apple anyways.
For an out of warranty speaker repair?
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Incorrect.

Flash on the web was heavily used for a LOT of sites in 2008. Not so much today in 2018. The background code on sites is becoming increasingly HTML 5 back in 2008 HTML 4 was becoming heavily mainstream. JavaScript also heavily changed since then.

Email: web based was starting to become popular (yahoo and gmail), yet apps have heavily changed Outlook especially for POP3/IMAP (3/4) snd Exchange for push was heavily different form today using active sync. In fact back in 2008 activesync used sms for pull/push requests to be completed and failed in persona ce against BlackBerry and BES or BIS services. Don’t come at me with email not being changed if you’ve never supported personal and corporate email.

Games: heavily changed LOL. 8MB ram was the norm on laptops for GPU and up to 64MB. Today we’re getting 2GB of video RAM for GPU and we never had integrated GPU on CPU dies!! So what you talking bout Willis!??!

Spreadsheets have changed as well as the add-ins many people use in the corporate office. Heck even Googles Sheets now supports add-ins!! Come on man try a little harder please?!
2GB? My card has 11..
 
I keep reading this about “paperweight” for a machine that’s 5-7yrs old.

What kind of performance do you expect a computer to have in 5-7yrs from now? Web technologies most likely will change, software component requirements not to mention security updates may no longer be available by Apple in this case for a machine that old.

Back in 2008 I purchased a Ti_Book (PowerBook titanium) G4 at 450Mhz with 1GB RAM and 50GB HDD as a primary machine to refresh my skills in OSX after 2yr a sense from that OS at that time. Safari could not be updated and it was VERY evident that surfing pages using Flash was a serious pain! Performance in loading the page was super slow like AOL 1997 painfully slow!! This was just web browsing; email worked yet again very slow 10Mb/speeds (I’m not sure it had 100mb/s connectivity).

I love that machine which was heavily damaged while moving. I’ll buy another in mint condition if I come across it again for nostalgic reasons but I’m NOT expecting anything more than email capability with it. I can’t even imagine back in 2002 what performance early FCP admins got out of it ... it’s unfathomable.

Of course software and web HTML5 technologies seems to be stabilizing and not jumping about as fast as early 2000’ but I have to ask you what kind of performance do you expect out of a 5-7yr old machine with what is unknown in that timeframe?


Bullocks, a 5-7 years old machine is capable of much more than you imply.
I have a MBP and a Mini, both from 2012, works flawlessly, the only slower part is the Intel Graphics, that's it.
Hell, I still have a Powermac G5, it's fast enough for plenty of people.

I expect(ed) more from a long time MR member, you should know better.
 
Whats the use if I need an expert to fix it that is more capable than even Apple's own employees. The idea is to have it easily repaired at home, like it used to be. If repairing is going to cost me $500 I might as well buy a new device.

If you can uncover the back and replace the battery, RAM, and SSD then thats about what 90% of people want.
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Bullocks, a 5-7 years old machine is capable of much more than you imply.
I have a MBP and a Mini, both from 2012, works flawlessly, the only slower part is the Intel Graphics, that's it.
Hell, I still have a Powermac G5, it's fast enough for plenty of people.

I expect(ed) more from a long time MR member, you should know better.

TBH, People would be happy with even a computer form 1998. It had office and could do email. Other than modern games, the most thing I noticed that is taxing on older systems is huge media files like 1080P video and 20MB images, and browsers with infinite tabs. Otherwise back in 1998 we browsed the web, had emails, typed essays, played 3D games, and even live streamed video-which was terrible quality.
 
"Apple did not respond to our request for comment."

of course they won't... Apple won't respond to something they oppose, and even if they DID respond it will defiantly not change the outcome anyway. ..I don't think knowing what the result is from Apple will help.

Although we go on the offense for "right to repair" Apple has been in this eco-system how long? Although you an make the argument, its gotten tougher to repair, the later the model Mac/iPhone/tablet, its still theirs.. so the same is truth today as it was several years ago when it might have been easier stands as it did few years ago "DIY, or go elsewhere"

There are many other laptops which are NOT as limiting as Apple, but as always, we hate change and demand one side of the story always.
 
I keep reading this about “paperweight” for a machine that’s 5-7yrs old.

What kind of performance do you expect a computer to have in 5-7yrs from now? Web technologies most likely will change, software component requirements not to mention security updates may no longer be available by Apple in this case for a machine that old.

Back in 2008 I purchased a Ti_Book (PowerBook titanium) G4 at 450Mhz with 1GB RAM and 50GB HDD as a primary machine to refresh my skills in OSX after 2yr a sense from that OS at that time. Safari could not be updated and it was VERY evident that surfing pages using Flash was a serious pain! Performance in loading the page was super slow like AOL 1997 painfully slow!! This was just web browsing; email worked yet again very slow 10Mb/speeds (I’m not sure it had 100mb/s connectivity).

I love that machine which was heavily damaged while moving. I’ll buy another in mint condition if I come across it again for nostalgic reasons but I’m NOT expecting anything more than email capability with it. I can’t even imagine back in 2002 what performance early FCP admins got out of it ... it’s unfathomable.

Of course software and web HTML5 technologies seems to be stabilizing and not jumping about as fast as early 2000’ but I have to ask you what kind of performance do you expect out of a 5-7yr old machine with what is unknown in that timeframe?
Uh processing ability has seriously plateaued in the last 10 years for average computing. I have a 2008 MacBook unibody 2.0Ghz, 4GB RAM, 256GB SSD, running macOS 10.13 that is perfectly acceptable for a light user. I think it highly unlikely that processing need for light users will suddenly jump through the roof. Computers last longer than ever today and a 5-7 year old computer is not what it was 10-15 years ago.
 
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Louis Rossman is surely making a video on this so he can further highlight his farcical disdain for Apple.
The beauty of the internet is availability of information so one can make a choice. If this "restriction" is indeed implemented and it goes against your grain, buy elsewhere.
Just pick up a Windows 10 Machine.

Rossman is one whiny mo-fo. Hates Apple; loves his Apple related video clicks!
 
These aren't G4s. Those were slow when they were brand new. Everything made after 2010 has a second gen Core i5 or i7 processor and until this year, 7 years later, they were still competitive. Even now you're talking about machines that are still significantly faster than a Macbook and not far off a Macbook Pro. 7 year old machines... still viable, and totally out of support.
What I would really like to see happen is to have companies be required to release all support info for obsoleted machines. Then third party repair shops could take up the slack. It’s a bit scary to think that Apple could require you to use their authorized shops but after 7 years will no longer even do it.
 
"Apple did not respond to our request for comment."

of course they won't... Apple won't respond to something they oppose, and even if they DID respond it will defiantly not change the outcome anyway. ..I don't think knowing what the result is from Apple will help.

Although we go on the offense for "right to repair" Apple has been in this eco-system how long? Although you an make the argument, its gotten tougher to repair, the later the model Mac/iPhone/tablet, its still theirs.. so the same is truth today as it was several years ago when it might have been easier stands as it did few years ago "DIY, or go elsewhere"

There are many other laptops which are NOT as limiting as Apple, but as always, we hate change and demand one side of the story always.
Exactly right. I prefer the Mac mini whining to this whining.
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What I would really like to see happen is to have companies be required to release all support info for obsoleted machines. Then third party repair shops could take up the slack. It’s a bit scary to think that Apple could require you to use their authorized shops but after 7 years will no longer even do it.

I suppose that is a fair compromise to the issue, but I sort of cringe at the thought of any state actor dictating that to a private company (which is why I'm not personally huge on right to repair laws, but encourage others to make use of them if available in their jurisdiction).
 
TBH, People would be happy with even a computer form 1998. It had office and could do email. Other than modern games, the most thing I noticed that is taxing on older systems is huge media files like 1080P video and 20MB images, and browsers with infinite tabs. Otherwise back in 1998 we browsed the web, had emails, typed essays, played 3D games, and even live streamed video-which was terrible quality.

Exactly, it's just faster by a bit, except for that older systems are capable for many uses people need a computer for.
This is especially true for systems which are made last 8 years, there's little difference in between a computer from 2010 and now for those lighter tasks.
 
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The things that most people do with computers:

Web, games, email, spreadsheets


Have not fundamentally changed in 10+ years.

Not have computers.

The web browsing experience on an XP desktop in 2008 was exactly the same as Win 10 on a desktop today.

There is zero reason to obsolete old hardware today.

Larry Laffer agrees ;-)
 
Damit. Looking back at the classic 1984 ad from apple, it’s a shame apple is the big brother . It was great when they were the rebellious competitor to Microsoft , how times have changed . Though they will tell you it’s in your best interest, which Microsoft was never able to pull off. It’s been an interesting ride, but I do love my iMac Pro.......
 
Why doesn't Apple respect the RIGHT TO REPAIR?

This may be a good thing as they are so many cowboys out there and nothing has been done to regulate this market.

The good repair shops will suffer threw the government lack of effort so can you blame companies as customers compyare butchered by cowboys
 
I keep reading this about “paperweight” for a machine that’s 5-7yrs old.

What kind of performance do you expect a computer to have in 5-7yrs from now? Web technologies most likely will change, software component requirements not to mention security updates may no longer be available by Apple in this case for a machine that old.

Back in 2008 I purchased a Ti_Book (PowerBook titanium) G4 at 450Mhz with 1GB RAM and 50GB HDD as a primary machine to refresh my skills in OSX after 2yr a sense from that OS at that time. Safari could not be updated and it was VERY evident that surfing pages using Flash was a serious pain! Performance in loading the page was super slow like AOL 1997 painfully slow!! This was just web browsing; email worked yet again very slow 10Mb/speeds (I’m not sure it had 100mb/s connectivity).
This is a silly comparison.

The last great upgrade for a laptop was to run video and that was more than capable on 2009 vintage machines. Machines in the last 10 years don't need to be upgraded for web browsing as there's nothing new to use the extra power. That is the reason a 7 year old machine is just as good today as when it was released. My 2011 iMac has a Sandybridge chip and is more than capable of doing anything the machines of today can do. 7 years prior to 2011 is clearly not the equivalent as those machines were slow, PowerPC based, and had weak GPUs.
 
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I’m curious what the statistics are on Mac hardware repair performed by the user. My guess is that it is pretty low ... And someone who builds their own PCs is probably never going to consider a Mac.

Security is certainly a factor as well, especially as we store more personal information on these devices. Thieves bypassing TouchID could get to a whole trove of info—from passwords to all your accounts to payment and personal info. I had my home cleaned out once, and it’s no fun trying to be a step ahead of the thief, especially when it takes days to realize what all you have lost. Not to mention that you don’t want your security measures serviceable by just anyone.
I build my own PCs and will not buy a MacOS machine strictly because they are not offering a reasonably priced desktop with upgradable/replaceable memory and drive. I don’t need Apple to save us from ourselves. We are more than capable to get in and replace stuff. Spinning drives may only last a couple years. It shouldn’t cost a ton of money to replace - plus those fusion drives are garbage!
 
I keep reading this about “paperweight” for a machine that’s 5-7yrs old.

What kind of performance do you expect a computer to have in 5-7yrs from now? Web technologies most likely will change, software component requirements not to mention security updates may no longer be available by Apple in this case for a machine that old.

Back in 2008 I purchased a Ti_Book (PowerBook titanium) G4 at 450Mhz with 1GB RAM and 50GB HDD as a primary machine to refresh my skills in OSX after 2yr a sense from that OS at that time. Safari could not be updated and it was VERY evident that surfing pages using Flash was a serious pain! Performance in loading the page was super slow like AOL 1997 painfully slow!! This was just web browsing; email worked yet again very slow 10Mb/speeds (I’m not sure it had 100mb/s connectivity).

I love that machine which was heavily damaged while moving. I’ll buy another in mint condition if I come across it again for nostalgic reasons but I’m NOT expecting anything more than email capability with it. I can’t even imagine back in 2002 what performance early FCP admins got out of it ... it’s unfathomable.

Of course software and web HTML5 technologies seems to be stabilizing and not jumping about as fast as early 2000’ but I have to ask you what kind of performance do you expect out of a 5-7yr old machine with what is unknown in that timeframe?

I’m a power user and my primary computer is still a 2008 Mac Pro that never chokes and does everything I want it to. I ALSO have a small army of 2006-2008 MacBooks that run great for many tasks. I primarily use them for running video at events. It’s just about keeping the right balance of software. This would surely be an issue for novice users but for mid tier computer nerds like myself it’s very doable so long as there’s access to older software. Just yesterday I was working on a 1989 Mac SE/30 and Apple IIGS. I use the machines in art installations and the idea of not being able to salvage today’s hardware down the road makes me very sad
 
I keep reading this about “paperweight” for a machine that’s 5-7yrs old.

What kind of performance do you expect a computer to have in 5-7yrs from now? Web technologies most likely will change, software component requirements not to mention security updates may no longer be available by Apple in this case for a machine that old.

Back in 2008 I purchased a Ti_Book (PowerBook titanium) G4 at 450Mhz with 1GB RAM and 50GB HDD as a primary machine to refresh my skills in OSX after 2yr a sense from that OS at that time. Safari could not be updated and it was VERY evident that surfing pages using Flash was a serious pain! Performance in loading the page was super slow like AOL 1997 painfully slow!! This was just web browsing; email worked yet again very slow 10Mb/speeds (I’m not sure it had 100mb/s connectivity).

I love that machine which was heavily damaged while moving. I’ll buy another in mint condition if I come across it again for nostalgic reasons but I’m NOT expecting anything more than email capability with it. I can’t even imagine back in 2002 what performance early FCP admins got out of it ... it’s unfathomable.

Of course software and web HTML5 technologies seems to be stabilizing and not jumping about as fast as early 2000’ but I have to ask you what kind of performance do you expect out of a 5-7yr old machine with what is unknown in that timeframe?

I own a perfectly fine Late 2009 27 inch iMac with an upgraded 2.93 GHz Core i7, 32 GB of RAM, a DIY Fusion Drive and an also upgraded 802.11ac (now AKA “WiFi 5”) board+adapter+antennae kit from OSXwifi. It is a beast of a machine, and yet, it’s now a bit over 9 years old.

The only reason I’m getting a new one is that Apple cut off support with Mojave, and I still want to get some resale value out of it before it’s too late (and it already kind of is, but perhaps for a professional audio user it may still be good enough).
 
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I own a perfectly fine Late 2009 27 inch iMac with an upgraded 2.93 GHz Core i7, 32 GB of RAM, a DIY Fusion Drive and an also upgraded 802.11ac (now AKA “WiFi 5”) board+adapter+antennae kit from OSXwifi. It is a beast of a machine, and yet, it’s now a bit over 9 years old.

The only reason I’m getting a new one is that Apple cut off support with Mojave, and I still want to get some resale value out of it before it’s too late (and it already kind of is, but perhaps for a professional audio user it may still be good enough).

Indeed it is a beast and indeed it will for an Audio professional - sans Fusion Drive (I always loathed that concept: mixing a HDD with an SSD).
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You do realize Apple is currently selling MacPros released in 2013 as new in 2018 right? That is 5 years.

I know - much to many owners disdain. There is also the 2014 Mac Mini which has probably THE largest thread on this forum and of which I’m a member of ;)

Yeah the Mac Pro slipped my mind to be honest. Yet the performance is significantly less than the MacBook Pro in “spec test” but it’s more than capable.
 
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Indeed it is a beast and indeed it will for an Audio professional - sans Fusion Drive (I always loathed that concept: mixing a HDD with an SSD).
[doublepost=1538942288][/doublepost]

I know - much to many owners disdain. There is also the 2014 Mac Mini which has probably THE largest thread on this forum and of which I’m a member of ;)

Yeah the Mac Pro slipped my mind to be honest. Yet the performance is significantly less than the MacBook Pro in “spec test” but it’s more than capable.

So if it is "more than capable" and its been 5 years since release. Why do you still insist on saying people should not expect to still have a good computer after 5-7 years of purchase?
 
I love Apple for the design language, the OS and the software. I don't want to hate Apple but I do because of their terrible business practices, from locking down the App Store to making repairs and upgrades impossible with soldered components, all the way through to not paying TAX owed! I like many have a love hate relationship and locking out repairs and upgrades might just be the final straw in a long line of failures that finally pushes influencers away. The iPhone XS has pretty much put the nail in the influencer coffin and I suspect MacOS is next.
 
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This is how Tim serves humanity:
He keeps his finger on the "big button" and in his infinite magnanimity, he says: I let you repair your own product, for now.
Thanks, almighty Tim!
 
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