Most people are not engineers so wont touch the innards. People want reliability so the 95% are those who matter.
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iFixit Tearing Down 16-Inch MacBook Pro Live
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When you demonstrate those parasitic impedances are significant using HFSS, FEKO, etc. I will believe you.
No problem at all in having the same keyboard as before (even though as I may be one of the few that prefer the butterfly mechanism).
The problem is Phil Schiller saying that Apple spent countless hours in developing and perfecting the scissor keyboard, when all they did is putting back the same one they used in the past.
The problem is Phil Schiller saying that Apple spent countless hours in developing and perfecting the scissor keyboard, when all they did is putting back the same one they used in the past.
Why soldered ram and SSD??? I could understand a proprietary connector, but why soldered???
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Because I’m the biggest Apple fan but I can’t find a reason...
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could you explain it to me?
Because I’m the biggest Apple fan but I can’t find a reason...
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What reliability are talking about? No one has given me a solid argument why I’m as a customer can’t buy base model and upgrade when and if I need to saving hundreds in the process.
Forgive me but I can't recall a "falloutgate" in the decades I've followed Apple. Seems like a red herring to me.
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It is cheaper for Apple, and they don't pass those savings on to you. What more reason is there?
I'm really happy about a repairable keyboard....what's sad is that they had to kick out that pompous prick who designed it and, in his infinite arrogance, refused all the time to take serious note of the problem. Also happy about the fact that, probably, I will not see him so much anymore, sit giving one shoulder to the public, like God Almighty in person, and trying to teach us how smart he is.
You are a brave man for coming here and standing up against the "but muh ram is so'derd" faction.
I understand most failures on electronic devices are mechanical...so it makes sense that eliminating mechanical connections will boost reliability.
I liked how the ifixit guy praised the engineering of the machine, while making the caveat that the downside to the design is that even small failures become catastrophic.
It is an interesting trade-off. Choice is easy to fix, but more likely to need service vs. harder to fix, but less likely to need repair. No doubt Apple has a lot of data to support their decision to pursue the less repairable route.
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Expensive, too.
A little like the effects of activation lock, where phone thefts dropped but weren't eliminated because much of the phone could be parted out and sold.
Now imagine Apple makes removing a very expensive part of the laptop easy, and interchangeable with other computers. Maybe I'm a criminal mastermind and nobody else has thought of this, but there'd be a lot of money to be made in stealing MBPs and reselling the easily-removed SSDs while discarding the rest of the machine.
I totally agree. I assume it’s more just a way to prevent customer service calls over folks installing crappy/incorrect memory, but that’s a problem with users screwing up their computer, not with the reliability of the computer.
You’re talking about the G4 PowerBook, (and it’s notorious lower slot failure) a pre-Intel machine that was retired some 13 years ago!
Personally, I believe Apple’s decision to solder the RAM has far far less to do with “reliability” and more to do with gauging the consumer into paying for Apple’s extortionate RAM “upgrades” at the point of purchase. Also it keeps us from “tinkering” with our laptops
, another plus for the service/repair guys.As for soldering SSDs onto thermally-vulnerable logic boards, there’s simply no excuse. It’s a joke and has been since they brought out the disastrous 12” retina MacBook paperweight in 2015.
For a company that preaches green ethics and sustainability, the hypocrisy of Apple under Tim Cook is off the scale.
It seems there are better and worse sockets to choose from, though. Toughbooks have sockets, they are used harder than MacBooks, and still they have lower failure rates.
Granted, maybe most Toughbook failures are due to sockets whereas MacBooks fail because of other things - we would have to know the inside details. But given that the Toughbook line prides itself on robustness and reliability, I think they would have reconsidered their stance on sockets if those were their Achilles' heel.
Apple's priority is clearly not reliability though, otherwise they would have not kept pushing for a keyboard model with known reliability issues for years and would have reverted to the model with proven reliability much earlier.
By definition, "reliability" does not apply to your point either.
Reliability does not really matter if anything fails, you simply lose all your data.
Reliability does NOT matter if anything brakes make your computer a brick, unrepairable.
It seems your PHd is really flawed...
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The only reliability and performance that increase with soldering RAM and SSD is the Apple stock, due to the cost of repairs, obscene cost of RAM and SSD prices, and because if something brakes you might need to buy a new computer 😂😂😂😂
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Reading these comments left me with two feelings:
1. A lot of people are making excuses for themselves and for Apple just because they are too far into the ecosystem and can't see the big picture.
2. A lot of people here discussing the MBPs "new" features aren't pro users but just "we want a MBP because it's high spec" users. Pro users need RAM and HDD upgrades to keep their machine running in the long run. If you use your machine for tasks such as development, design, photo/video editing, CAD, ... you'll notice that the industry gets more demanding every year which means you either have to buy an overpowered/overpriced computer and hope it will make it for x-amount of years or you buy the computer you need and upgrade it when needed.
About the soldered parts. My 2010 MBP hasn't had a single issue with the HDD or RAM, which can be replaced, but it has had an issue which they tried to fix 3 times with the soldering for the GPU. When it switches it dies so I have to disable auto-switching the GPU's. This is a problem Apple knew about and even had extended warranty for, they replaced my motherboard 3 times without it actually solving anything.
1. A lot of people are making excuses for themselves and for Apple just because they are too far into the ecosystem and can't see the big picture.
2. A lot of people here discussing the MBPs "new" features aren't pro users but just "we want a MBP because it's high spec" users. Pro users need RAM and HDD upgrades to keep their machine running in the long run. If you use your machine for tasks such as development, design, photo/video editing, CAD, ... you'll notice that the industry gets more demanding every year which means you either have to buy an overpowered/overpriced computer and hope it will make it for x-amount of years or you buy the computer you need and upgrade it when needed.
About the soldered parts. My 2010 MBP hasn't had a single issue with the HDD or RAM, which can be replaced, but it has had an issue which they tried to fix 3 times with the soldering for the GPU. When it switches it dies so I have to disable auto-switching the GPU's. This is a problem Apple knew about and even had extended warranty for, they replaced my motherboard 3 times without it actually solving anything.
I know everyone wants to hear about this, but all the hype is between the old butterfly and bringing back scissor design keybaords a major talked about issue.
Even iFixIt focuses on this for the majority. I dunnno why that is.... . I just treat like as though, more people hate it, ok, great......does that mean less for the other stuff ?
If its under warranty it would be cheaper getting it repaired. Even mor eso the more you spend eg.. 8TB SSD
Even iFixIt focuses on this for the majority. I dunnno why that is.... . I just treat like as though, more people hate it, ok, great......does that mean less for the other stuff ?
If its under warranty it would be cheaper getting it repaired. Even mor eso the more you spend eg.. 8TB SSD
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I guess this depends a lot on the specifics of the job and place, but still I am not sure that parts upgrades on laptops are such a common thing for professional users. Rather, when computers are bought for business, then it is common in taxation law that their cost can be tax deducted over X years - so that is how long they will have to last, and lasting even longer is irrelevant. E.g. in my country X=3, so at my workplace (research institute) we get new machines every 3 years, and the old ones are dumped or handed to interns or whatever.
Don't get me wrong, on my private computers I value longevity and upgradability very much, and generally I am clearly for modular computers. I just think in the professional area the benefit of modularity is easier repairs rather than long-term upgrades. And many businesses will probably not even care about the repairs, they have some service contract and get a new machine if something breaks. In fact, the only problem I could see for totally soldered computers at my workplace is the fact that we are not to hand out hard drives/SSDs, and I'm not sure whether our disk shredder can take whole laptops.
I guess this depends a lot on the specifics of the job and place, but still I am not sure that parts upgrades on laptops are such a common thing for professional users. Rather, when computers are bought for business, then it is common in taxation law that their cost can be tax deducted over X years - so that is how long they will have to last, and lasting even longer is irrelevant. E.g. in my country X=3, so at my workplace (research institute) we get new machines every 3 years, and the old ones are dumped or handed to interns or whatever.
Don't get me wrong, on my private computers I value longevity and upgradability very much, and generally I am clearly for modular computers. I just think in the professional area the benefit of modularity is easier repairs rather than long-term upgrades. And many businesses will probably not even care about the repairs, they have some service contract and get a new machine if something breaks. In fact, the only problem I could see for totally soldered computers at my workplace is the fact that we are not to hand out hard drives/SSDs, and I'm not sure whether our disk shredder can take whole laptops.
I agree with you partially. Where I'm from, they are also deducted over 3 to 4 years so you can replace them and most companies do. However this is from a large business perspective but a lot of MBPs are also sold to freelancers, small businesses, ... A large business will replace its devices more easily than the latter.
What's also important to keep in mind is that newer and better hardware will be developed which you can't use. For example. I've upgraded my MBP 2010 and my Mac Mini 2012 with an SSD and more RAM based on the tested max. amounts I found on EveryMac. Being able to upgrade my traditional HDD to an SSD after 4 or 5 years was a major upgrade which made sure my MBP would still run even very heavy duty tasks. It's only after 9 years that we replaced it, simply because we knew someone who needed a laptop and we had the money to replace it, it was still performing very well.
tl;dr it's easy for large companies to not be concerned about replacing a broken or deducted MBP after x-amount of years but for smaller businesses and freelancers, a new +3000 piece of hardware is still an investment that has to be well thought about and has to last for a while.
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This made me lol 😂... and I'm not sure whether our disk shredder can take whole laptops.
Can't agree more. I'm still rolling a 2012 MBP (and a 2012 mini) specifically because you can get in and upgrade.
In saying that, the machine is staring to really show it's age, especially with trying to run FCP with 4k...
Really hoping Apple make a 'pro' MBP, as seen in the new MP vs trashcan.
Self-serving: having concern for one's own welfare and interests before those of others.
Seems to me that most who wants to repair the products themselves are putting their own interest before Apple employees, shareholders and some customers.
Throw away? Maybe you didn't notice but Apple devices do keep value for quite a long time, 10+ years are not exceptional.
Looks like a great machine, keyboard is finally not destined to doom, much better layout (key size, cursor keys, physical esc), better thermals, good price (compared to 15" inch at least)... I love everything that they updated.
But... when battery fails, which it will, because that's what batteries inevitable does, when SSD fails (which it also will, although a little later), if RAM fails (it happened to me before)... the price of repair will be ridiculosly high. If you don't care for this or you replace your computers after 3 years, then it's a no-brainer. For those that keep our machines for more than 5 years and care about potential running costs, this is not machine for us.
But... when battery fails, which it will, because that's what batteries inevitable does, when SSD fails (which it also will, although a little later), if RAM fails (it happened to me before)... the price of repair will be ridiculosly high. If you don't care for this or you replace your computers after 3 years, then it's a no-brainer. For those that keep our machines for more than 5 years and care about potential running costs, this is not machine for us.
Yeah that’s absolutely ridiculous.