iFixit Tearing Down 16-Inch MacBook Pro Live

[DEMinSoCAL]

Can't agree more. I'm still rolling a 2012 MBP (and a 2012 mini) specifically because you can get in and upgrade.

In saying that, the machine is staring to really show it's age, especially with trying to run FCP with 4k...

Really hoping Apple make a 'pro' MBP, as seen in the new MP vs trashcan.

Something like a Dell Alienware 15R4, but as a Mac would be awesome. THREE NVMe expansion slots, a 2.5" SATA bay, socketed DIMM modules, WIFI slot, etc. Very powerful, expandable, replaceable, repairable, but yes...thick and heavier than a traditional MBP. BUT "Pros" would love it!

 

[JosephAW]

Meh. I'll stick with my 15" mid 2012 MBP with all the needed ports and with user replaceable ram, drive and battery. Also can run the latest macOS. Almost as fast as latest models. I'll take two blinks of an eye speed over one blink of an eye price and lack of expandability.

 

[Riwam]

I am still an Apple user (i do not know how much longer...) that is trying to inform other people of the bad products Apple is actually releasing. And it is because users continue to buy the bad products they are releasing that they do not care to design better products.
It is great that they are finally and acknowledging the problems and fixing some of them. But truly, is beyond understanding how after 3 years of flowed design, people gets excited with this poor release.

Good that they are such courageous people like you, Peperino, to whom thousands of Apple users should be thankful for fighting for them with Apple to hopefully receive one day the things that you, Peperino, consider to be good and worth their price.
What would countless of Apple users do without you?
Thank you so much for informing us how bad present Apple products are!
I do not know how we can show our infinite gratitude!
If one day the tragic decision you consider to give up to use Apple products is taken, it will be a very sad day for all of us still continuing to buy and enjoy Apple devices.
I hope this terrible event never happens!

 

[Dovydas]

You are a brave man for coming here and standing up against the "but muh ram is so'derd" faction.

I understand most failures on electronic devices are mechanical...so it makes sense that eliminating mechanical connections will boost reliability.

I liked how the ifixit guy praised the engineering of the machine, while making the caveat that the downside to the design is that even small failures become catastrophic.

It is an interesting trade-off. Choice is easy to fix, but more likely to need service vs. harder to fix, but less likely to need repair. No doubt Apple has a lot of data to support their decision to pursue the less repairable route.

What are you talking about? SSD and RAm are fixed in the slots, they don't move and nobody is taking them out and putting them back in 200 times a day. This forum is one goddamn echo chamber detached from reality.

 

[Riwam]

Something like a Dell Alienware 15R4, but as a Mac would be awesome. THREE NVMe expansion slots, a 2.5" SATA bay, socketed DIMM modules, WIFI slot, etc. Very powerful, expandable, replaceable, repairable, but yes...thick and heavier than a traditional MBP. BUT "Pros" would love it!

What stops you from buying that Dell you admire and be happy with it?
Present Windows 10 has become much better than old Windows and there are countless free and excellent Linux OS. I do not see the point of people writing in this forum that non Apple products have the features Apple, according to their opinion, lacks.
As long as there are choices you like, well, grab them.
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What are you talking about? SSD and RAm are fixed in the slots, they don't move and nobody is taking them out and putting them back in 200 times a day. This forum is one goddamn echo chamber detached from reality.

No it is not. It is a place of Apple users and most of them enjoy their devices and accept their limitations. Perfection is an ideal, not a part of true life.
Whoever does not accept limitations of present Apple products should look elsewhere.

 

[Glockworkorange]

What reliability are talking about? No one has given me a solid argument why I’m as a customer can’t buy base model and upgrade when and if I need to saving hundreds in the process.

I remember when Apple went to the 17 inch in 2009, they said sealing the battery in would allow them to add a bigger battery, with longer battery life due to less wasted space.

Is that true? I have no idea.

Re: RAM and SSD, I believe they've talked about the ability to save space and make the machines lighter by soldering the components.

Again, I have no idea if that's true.

What I am relatively sure of, however, is that most laptop purchasers do not open and tinker with their machines.

You think all those people you see at Starbucks would be upgrading their RAM and hard drives if Apple made the innards swappable? Really?

I mean, with respect, you're in the minority of consumers--why should Apple cater to the minority of consumers?

They have every incentive to offer tiered upgrade with pricing to match, because the majority of their customers just don't care.

They're in business to make money and they make money on large margins with hardware sales.

Rossman and the iFix it people can sit in their highchairs, bang their wooden spoons and scream all they want--Apple's not changing anything.

If you don't like the way they run their business (and by extension, they way they construct their products), there are many, many options for you.

 

[Dovydas]

I remember when Apple went to the 17 inch in 2009, they said sealing the battery in would allow them to add a bigger battery, with longer battery life due to less wasted space.

Is that true? I have no idea.

Re: RAM and SSD, I believe they've talked about the ability to save space and make the machines lighter by soldering the components.

Again, I have no idea if that's true.

What I am relatively sure of, however, is that most laptop purchasers do not open and tinker with their machines.

You think all those people you see at Starbucks would be upgrading their RAM and hard drives if Apple made the innards swappable? Really?

I mean, with respect, you're in the minority of consumers--why should Apple cater to the minority of consumers?

They have every incentive to offer tiered upgrade with pricing to match, because the majority of their customers just don't care.

They're in business to make money and they make money on large margins with hardware sales.

Rossman and the iFix it people can sit in their highchairs, bang their wooden spoons and scream all they want--Apple's not changing anything.

If you don't like the way they run their business (and by extension, they way they construct their products), there are many, many options for you.

great then please provide reasonable upgrade prices, going from 16 go ram to 32 is 412 euro or 4400 sek here in sweden. That’s just insane.
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What stops you from buying that Dell you admire and be happy with it?
Present Windows 10 has become much better than old Windows and there are countless free and excellent Linux OS. I do not see the point of people writing in this forum that non Apple products have the features Apple, according to their opinion, lacks.
As long as there are choices you like, well, grab them.
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No it is not. It is a place of Apple users and most of them enjoy their devices and accept their limitations. Perfection is an ideal, not a part of true life.
Whoever does not accept limitations of present Apple products should look elsewhere.

Artificial limitations. If you really want something you can apply yourself and make it happen, problem is customer is not in the best interest to apple, it just so happens that their interests sometimes align with the customer. It's a laptop, not a space shuttle.

 

[code-m]

I remember when Apple went to the 17 inch in 2009, they said sealing the battery in would allow them to add a bigger battery, with longer battery life due to less wasted space.

Is that true? I have no idea.

Re: RAM and SSD, I believe they've talked about the ability to save space and make the machines lighter by soldering the components.

Again, I have no idea if that's true.

What I am relatively sure of, however, is that most laptop purchasers do not open and tinker with their machines.

You think all those people you see at Starbucks would be upgrading their RAM and hard drives if Apple made the innards swappable? Really?

I mean, with respect, you're in the minority of consumers--why should Apple cater to the minority of consumers?

They have every incentive to offer tiered upgrade with pricing to match, because the majority of their customers just don't care.

They're in business to make money and they make money on large margins with hardware sales.

Rossman and the iFix it people can sit in their highchairs, bang their wooden spoons and scream all they want--Apple's not changing anything.

If you don't like the way they run their business (and by extension, they way they construct their products), there are many, many options for you.

Hey just asking how you know that people who consume Starbucks or sit in the coffee shop do not tinker around with the internals such as SSD or RAM if provided then option. Seems you maybe assuming the particular demographic of customer.

I consume Starbucks and also sit in the coffee shop plus I have owned many laptop may it be Mac, Windows, Linux and Android. Guess what, I like to open up my computers for self upgrade the RAM or SSD. Am I in the minority, not sure but I do have family and friends approach me with anything Mac hardware or software related and some of it is hardware component upgrade related.

Just a thought yeah, don’t assume. Given choice on ones preference of OS platform you will be amazed what people will consider.

 

[FlyingDutch]

Apple releases yet another throwable device.
As in throw it in your trashcan in a few years.
No chance to upgrade anything or replace the battery once it stops holding a charge unless you're ready to pay close to the price of a new one anyway.
Nice going Apple.

DO you know how much is for a battery replacement ?
According to Apple website the out-of-warranty repair is 209€ for MacBook Pro 16" and 139€ for MacBook Pro 13".

Very far from the price of a new MacBook Pro.

But complaining here is cool, isn't it ?

 

[code-m]

great then please provide reasonable upgrade prices, going from 16 go ram to 32 is 412 euro or 4400 sek here in sweden. That’s just insane.
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Artificial limitations. If you really want something you can apply yourself and make it happen, problem is customer is not in the best interest to apple, it just so happens that their interests sometimes align with the customer. It's a laptop, not a space shuttle.

I remember the days laptops had replaceable batteries, drive bays, HDD/SSD and RAM. Some of the other components like display could also be swapped if damaged with a little more effort but quite user capable.

Either Apple and some poster here are proclaiming that past users were capable and present day not so. Then the angle will be but people are so busy now and have no interest, again another ridiculous argument considering that is an insult to people and assuming everyone is what their ideology of society is.

Diversity yeah.

 

[Dovydas]

I remember the days laptops had replaceable batteries, drive bays, HDD/SSD and RAM. Some of the other components like display could also be swapped if damaged with a little more effort but quite user capable.

Either Apple and some poster here are proclaiming that past users were capable and present day not so. Then the angle will be but people are so busy now and have no interest, again another ridiculous argument considering that is an insult to people and assuming everyone is what their ideology of society is.

Diversity yeah.

Indeed. Starbucks is a place to get a cup of coffee, it doesn't mean people going there are imbeciles. He just assumed a bunch of things without any evidence and insulted millions with his assumptions.


Never judge peoples intelligence by what they do in life.

 

[code-m]

DO you know how much is for a battery replacement ?
According to Apple website the out-of-warranty repair is 209€ for MacBook Pro 16" and 139€ for MacBook Pro 13".

Very far from the price of a new MacBook Pro.

But complaining here is cool, isn't it ?

I have had my non-user replaceable 2014 rMBP for over 5 years and I don’t have to get the battery replaced. Maybe there are other users who use up more battery cycles for the work they do, who knows it seems odd. In the rare circumstance that they are heavy users I believe the battery may require replacing after 3 years. Having a reasonable priced replacement program offered by Apple is great, the problem is sometimes things are not as smooth at the Genius Bar for whatever reason and some customers get misinformed to upgrade due to whatever the tech believe it is not in the best interest of the user. Luckily there are some third-party repair shops but R-T-P for official parts, tools and repair manuals would go a long way.

 

[FlyingDutch]

As much as I hate "defending" Apple here ... that just isn't the truth:

Product Service and Repair Information - Official Apple Support

Select your product to find information about warranty, repair options and pricing.

support.apple.com

$199 even for the 16. While I agree this is still expensive it's hardly the price you're trying to say it is.

Edit: Are you thinking about replacement of the keyboard out of warranty? If so, it is possible to reach over $1000 in repair from what I have seen.

$199 for a battery replacement is not expensive.

 

[code-m]

Always. They have an agenda.

Every company and some people have some agenda. Just saying your comment seems naive.
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$199 for a battery replacement is not expensive.

Sounds reasonable to some yes and I particular do not find it expensive however some have other priorities and budgets. Example students, out of work individuals, etc.

Just because the amount quoted does not seem expensive to you or I does not mean it’s not for another. The 16” MBP is a deal to me, but not to others. Does that make it overpriced possibly but that depends on an individuals budget, you are assuming everyone is as fortunate as you and I. Even I have had rough spots relating to finances in the past and this amount would either means rent, utilities and food or a battery replacement.

Be understanding and please do not redirect and claim if you cannot afford it then go else where. Maybe the person was doing great when their purchased that MBP and now are in a financial slump due to whatever reason.

 

[Glockworkorange]

great then please provide reasonable upgrade prices, going from 16 go ram to 32 is 412 euro or 4400 sek here in sweden. That’s just insane.
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Artificial limitations. If you really want something you can apply yourself and make it happen, problem is customer is not in the best interest to apple, it just so happens that their interests sometimes align with the customer. It's a laptop, not a space shuttle.

Apple doesn't have to do anything for you.

You guys are militant about this stuff.

There are other playgrounds for you to play in.

Apple just isn't for you---and that's ok!

 

[Dovydas]

Apple doesn't have to do anything for you.

You guys are militant about this stuff.

There are other playgrounds for you to play in.

Apple just isn't for you---and that's ok!

Yeah another typical response after the usual "arguments" don't go through.

 

[code-m]

Apple doesn't have to do anything for you.

You guys are militant about this stuff.

There are other playgrounds for you to play in.

Apple just isn't for you---and that's ok!

Hey just out of curiosity Windows, LinuxOS are available to be installed on any hardware. Please direct me where I am able to install macOS legally on any user hardware of choice.

Apple ran into problems when they licensed macOS in the early-mid 90’s, they almost collapsed. Apple main profits are from hardware sales and coming soon services. They are balancing on a tight rope relating to this issue. People just want fair pricing on upgraded components close to the free market, unless you do not believe in that and don’t mind giving a multi-billion dollars company your hard earned money for overcharging you on low cost components and upgrades.

Apple shelters enough money off-shore they can reduce the upgrade prices and align it with the free market and I don’t mind a small 5-10% up charge for the convenience or make it user replaceable and there is no concern for many. FYI 3rd party business become viable when components are user upgradable and add to the economy by spreading consumer disposable income while keeping more people employed and staying competitive. This is anti-competitive on Apple’s part by the look of it.

 

[MallardDuck]

Meh. I'll stick with my 15" mid 2012 MBP with all the needed ports and with user replaceable ram, drive and battery. Also can run the latest macOS. Almost as fast as latest models. I'll take two blinks of an eye speed over one blink of an eye price and lack of expandability.

"Almost as fast as latest models." - not even remotely true, especially for graphics.

 

[the-msa]

Actually they will be more reliable if they are soldered. Socketed parts fall out of their sockets. Socketed parts have more points of failure.

Sockets also increase inductance and impedance, thus increasing power consumption at a given frequency, or reducing frequency at a given power consumption.

Sorry, but my electrical engineering ph.d and years of experience designing CPUs tell me that your claim that my arguments are completely flawed is flawed.
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Because socketed parts fall out. Historically a large percentage of support calls for mobile devices involved parts that have come loose.

wow, that's some premium grade A BS, realistically that's a non-issue.

even if a connector should become loose, you could still open a device like that and reconnect it.

certainly better than apple charging 1200 bucks for a bent screen connector pin you can barely repair yourself and apple lying to you about it by claiming liquid damage or using that as an excuse to rip you off or to make you buy a new device. and the repair cost is more than the production cost of a new device. all while independent shops fix it sometimes even for free.

 

[LuciusWrong]

What are you talking about? SSD and RAm are fixed in the slots, they don't move and nobody is taking them out and putting them back in 200 times a day. This forum is one goddamn echo chamber detached from reality.

I agree on the echo chamger...but you are the echo! I am attempting to cancel out a little bit of the echo!

There is too much emotional response in this forum! Yes, the idea of removable ram/ storage is a nice idea. I like the idea. But there are pros and cons to every design decision. Mechanical connections can fail without ever being moved! And they are expensive...to the engineers, saving even 1 cent is a significant win! (Your emotions don't agree, but engineers do not base decisions on emotions!)

For the record, I have a 2013 MBP--with removable storage. Over 6 years, I have not upgraded storage, and I don't expect I ever will. So factually speaking, soldered in SSD would serve my purposes perfectly.

The thing that actually failed on my machine was fixed in later designs. On my machine, the I/O was soldered to the logic board, and the headphone jack now has issues which can't be fixed without replacing the entire logic board! I think this was a much bigger design fail that never gets any attention!

Apple have fixed the issue with the I/O, because that proved to be a problem. But they haven't returned to removable storage/ ram, because the cost/ benefit analysis says it makes no difference to most customers.

 

[Dovydas]

I agree on the echo chamger...but you are the echo! I am attempting to cancel out a little bit of the echo!

There is too much emotional response in this forum! Yes, the idea of removable ram/ storage is a nice idea. I like the idea. But there are pros and cons to every design decision. Mechanical connections can fail without ever being moved! And they are expensive...to the engineers, saving even 1 cent is a significant win! (Your emotions don't agree, but engineers do not base decisions on emotions!)

For the record, I have a 2013 MBP--with removable storage. Over 6 years, I have not upgraded storage, and I don't expect I ever will. So factually speaking, soldered in SSD would serve my purposes perfectly.

The thing that actually failed on my machine was fixed in later designs. On my machine, the I/O was soldered to the logic board, and the headphone jack now has issues which can't be fixed without replacing the entire logic board! I think this was a much bigger design fail that never gets any attention!

Apple have fixed the issue with the I/O, because that proved to be a problem. But they haven't returned to removable storage/ ram, because the cost/ benefit analysis says it makes no difference to most customers.

what emotions? I see how it really is and what Apple tells it’s customers and objective reality are quite different.

I agree on the echo chamger...but you are the echo! I am attempting to cancel out a little bit of the echo!

There is too much emotional response in this forum! Yes, the idea of removable ram/ storage is a nice idea. I like the idea. But there are pros and cons to every design decision. Mechanical connections can fail without ever being moved! And they are expensive...to the engineers, saving even 1 cent is a significant win! (Your emotions don't agree, but engineers do not base decisions on emotions!)

For the record, I have a 2013 MBP--with removable storage. Over 6 years, I have not upgraded storage, and I don't expect I ever will. So factually speaking, soldered in SSD would serve my purposes perfectly.

The thing that actually failed on my machine was fixed in later designs. On my machine, the I/O was soldered to the logic board, and the headphone jack now has issues which can't be fixed without replacing the entire logic board! I think this was a much bigger design fail that never gets any attention!

Apple have fixed the issue with the I/O, because that proved to be a problem. But they haven't returned to removable storage/ ram, because the cost/ benefit analysis says it makes no difference to most customers.

Do you understand that when everything is soldered in it’s a design fail? Apples response then is logic board replacement and then same component fails again.

Apple will replace logic board and that component will fail because logic board is designed poorly, but of course everything is soldered so it is more reliable. oh wait ...

 

[LuciusWrong]

wow, that's some premium grade A BS, realistically that's a non-issue.

even if a connector should become loose, you could still open a device line that and reconnect it.

certainly better than some charging 1200 bucks for a bent screen connector pin you can barely repair yourself and apple lying to you about it by claiming liquid damage. all while independent shops fix it sometimes even for free.

First, I see you are not an engineer! That is clear to all!

You may be assuming that because you are comfortable with fixing computers, therefore everyone is? It is great that you are competent, but it is a mistake to assume everyone else is equally competant...because most are not!

you bring up to separate issues:

1) The vast majority of people will never even think of opening up their machine. They'll throw it away if something starts acting up...even if it is a stupid easy repair.

2) The people who work at Apple stores are low skill and have no experience. I hear turnover is quite high. So bad/ wrong diagnosis is a problem due to inexperienced people, but it isn't some kind of conspiracy.

3) in all service scenarios, in all industries, it is common for techs to replace perfectly good components. I have trained myself to test and re-test to make sure I have actually found the issue, but that can take a lot of time. Mistakes are made, because people don't take enough time. It is a people problem, not an Apple problem!

4) Isn't your example of a loose connector proof that soldered in is better? If that connection had been soldered, it couldn't have come off...and none of the failure and mis-diagnosis could have happened! 🙂


Have a nice day!
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what emotions? I see how it really is and what Apple tells it’s customers and objective reality are quite different.

Do you understand that when everything is soldered in it’s a design fail? Apples response then is logic board replacement and then same component fails again.

If soldering components is bad, where exactly do you want them to stop soldering? Should they have sockets for every resister and capacitor? Should they build their machines on a breadboard with through hole components?

 

[dwaite]

replaceable / up-gradable Memory and SSD would be fantastic - but not likely

SSD would be really hard, since they don't really support standard SSDs. Rather, the SSD is a combination of soldered flash memory and the T2 chip.

 

[Dovydas]

First, I see you are not an engineer! That is clear to all!

You may be assuming that because you are comfortable with fixing computers, therefore everyone is? It is great that you are competent, but it is a mistake to assume everyone else is equally competant...because most are not!

you bring up to separate issues:

1) The vast majority of people will never even think of opening up their machine. They'll throw it away if something starts acting up...even if it is a stupid easy repair.

2) The people who work at Apple stores are low skill and have no experience. I hear turnover is quite high. So bad/ wrong diagnosis is a problem due to inexperienced people, but it isn't some kind of conspiracy.

3) in all service scenarios, in all industries, it is common for techs to replace perfectly good components. I have trained myself to test and re-test to make sure I have actually found the issue, but that can take a lot of time. Mistakes are made, because people don't take enough time. It is a people problem, not an Apple problem!

4) Isn't your example of a loose connector proof that soldered in is better? If that connection had been soldered, it couldn't have come off...and none of the failure and mis-diagnosis could have happened! 🙂


Have a nice day!
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If soldering components is bad, where exactly do you want them to stop soldering? Should they have sockets for every resister and capacitor? Should they build their machines on a breadboard with through hole components?

RAM, SSD and ports at least. Like it was for many years. Schematics available for everyone and ability to buy parts, so we and/or reputable electronics repair shop could DO AN ACTUAL REPAIR.

 

[dwaite]

Does this still occur if using all four Thunderbolt ports?
View attachment 877352

This can happen with one port, if the USB/thunderbolt device is pulling more power than advertised/allowed by spec.