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Illinois Floats Bill That Would Let Developers Skirt Apple's In-App Purchase Rules
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I actually do too. My external subscriptions like Netflix, LastPass, and Microsoft 365 are all purchased directly from the company's website. If it can be purchased from the web... that's where I'll go. I'm old-school like that.
But I think this bill is mostly about in-game upgrades and stuff. You know... actual in-app purchases.
You'll notice how most of the big developers (e.g. Netflix, Spotify) have removed any in-app purchasing abilities. You must go to their website to buy a subscription.
But for little apps and games... in-app is the only way to buy these upgrades.
For most consumers it'd be half a dozen of one, six of the other. Most app websites have a prominent link to download the app which then redirects you into the App Store. For a lot of consumers, downloading directly from the website would simply take out the redirection step. Generally I only use the App Store to search for apps that I already specifically know I want to download. Otherwise I use the web to figure out which app best accomplishes the task I have in mind.
You disagree with what? Perhaps that’s your impression that Apple is top of the line. It’s not everyone else’s. I have friends that are perfectly happy with Samsung phones and tablets. One even ditched her iPad because she preferred a Samsung tablet.I disagree. I think it's impression (Apple = top line) and build quality + Marketing.
I have owned a number of idevices and macs.
I buy for the quality of the hardware (or forced on by work
My wish for best phone? iPhone 13 Pro Max running Android 11. (12 is still too buggy).
Other than the CPU Apple hardware isn’t any better than flagship android phones. In some cases it’s inferior. I’ve always thought it was weird that some people think that if they put android on an iPhone it’s going to work like an iPhone. That’s just not the case. What your experiencing when you’re using that phone is mostly software and the operating system. iPhone has an advantage because iOS only has the support that specific hardware. If you put android on an iPhone it’s going to be like any other android phone. It’s like putting Windows on the old Intel MacBooks doesn’t make it a better PC than any other Windows PC.
Pretty sure Samsung's flagships are plastic. But sure, Apple's hardware is no better..
Your first sentence: "People are buying Apple products for that walled garden".
While it is my impression (top line), most Apple hardware (iPhones, iPads, Macs) are considered by many to be exactly that. Quality. This is besides the point of your claim. I see iPhone / iPad hardware as very good.
" I’ve always thought it was weird that some people think that if they put android on an iPhone it’s going to work like an iPhone." - What? Why do you assume this?
For me it is about the app/browser I am using. I prefer the OS be invisible. The biggest reason Android is my main device is I can substitute default apps if I don't like or the app is buggy and greater flexibility on Home screen setup. Can't do that very well on iOS. The fact I can sideload is a benefit (nice one).
True. And that would work for huge developers who already have datacenters, support staff, and infrastructure. Big developers like Netflix and Spotify could host their app themselves and handle the payment with their existing accounting systems.
But smaller one-person developers would likely still use the App Store and all of its resources.
So maybe Apple needs to create two tiers of service:
- The normal "Apple handles everything" approach like it is today.
- And a "self-host" option where the developer is in charge of everything.
The question then becomes... how does Apple collect a commission?
Obviously a developer using Apple's full-service approach will pay the normal 15% or 30% commission.
But big developers who use the self-host option should pay much less if they are only using Apple's software tools and none of Apple's datacenter and payment services.
It could be an interesting solution...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That is true, my company issued Blackberry was good. But nothing had apps in those days like what was spawned by the iPhone, Android world. All of the old devices that we had back then were just business related...I think that is what killed Blackberry, they just never were able to make the change to be a mass market consumer device.My BlackJack and BlackBerry at that time were pretty cool
Would be cool if we would see an open source group ...
its top of the line because of that walled garden, if you are buying something just because your friends have it without understanding anything about it, thats the user fault. they can return it, or get an android. id rather them lose their freedom than unlock mine.I disagree. I think it's impression (Apple = top line) and build quality + Marketing.
I have owned a number of idevices and macs.
I buy for the quality of the hardware (or forced on by work
My wish for best phone? iPhone 13 Pro Max running Android 11. (12 is still too buggy).
And opening it up will make it better.....how exactly? "bad" apps will no longer need to go through Apple. So it will be far far FAR worse.
Those are only how they get in touch with folks. Those methods are pretty limited in how damaging they can be. BUT they’re very good at getting a malicious actor in touch with someone they can convince to lower the security of their computer and give them full access to it.
Right now, no one can easily talk anyone through the process of decreasing the security of their phone so that a malicious app can be sideloaded because sideloading isn’t a thing. Make it a thing, and the iPhone will be just one more device non-tech savvy folks can destroy their lives on.
Am I the only one who actually likes the fact that Apple takes payments for most apps? I massively prefer having a single company with an extremely good reputation for privacy to have my data. I also appreciate having all my subscriptions in one place, so I can check and see if there are subscriptions I don’t want. Once subscriptions start getting scattered to various different websites and payment sources, it’s easy to have some that you wind up paying every month without wanting.
At this point, 30% seems awfully steep. Maybe if Apple took it down to five or 10%, but made that mandatory for everyone, then it would be fair across-the-board. And much better for consumers. I have no interest in sending money to every Tom Dick and Harry payment system that pops up.
At this point, 30% seems awfully steep. Maybe if Apple took it down to five or 10%, but made that mandatory for everyone, then it would be fair across-the-board. And much better for consumers. I have no interest in sending money to every Tom Dick and Harry payment system that pops up.
Neflix has added back In-App Purchases and now they’re back on my iPhone in Settings under Subscriptions where they belong
But the developer is NEVER in charge of “everything” as long as they’re not in charge of which CPU is in the device, how much RAM, the resolution of the screen the wireless capabilities, etc.
The conversation is pretty much that. “Things are horrible everywhere else, the iPhone should have the right to be just as horrible!”
Agreed. Walmart and Home Depot don’t even accept Apple Pay, which I find really frustrating when I’m in the store. I prefer using Apple pay so much, that I’ve started shopping at those stores less and less.
Why? That is the only advantage iPhone has in my opinion. Its safer than "everywhere else" even though yes stuff still happens but it will be much much MUCH worse if its opened up.
By "everything" I was talking about the developer hosting the app on their own website, and the developer collecting payments on their own website. The developer would be responsible for that stuff. An app store wouldn't be involved.
Basically it would be like downloading Mac/Windows software from a developer's website.
Wouldn't that be cool? If you could download and pay for iOS apps directly from a developer's website?
Some apps would remain in the store... but some apps would be handled by the developer.
Maybe that'll happen some day.
We'll see...
And what about app updates or in-app purchase modifications or renewals? You would need to return to each developer's app download page to manage?By "everything" I was talking about the developer hosting the app on their own website, and the developer collecting payments on their own website. The developer would be responsible for that stuff. An app store wouldn't be involved.
Basically it would be like downloading Mac/Windows software from a developer's website.
Wouldn't that be cool? If you could download and pay for iOS apps directly from a developer's website?
Some apps would remain in the store... but some apps would be handled by the developer.
Maybe that'll happen some day.
We'll see...
So you think people are going to Apple products like the iPhone or iPad for the hardware and not the walled garden user experience?
I really can’t agree with that statement because it just doesn’t make sense. Samsung phones and tablets are just as good and someways better than what Apple puts out. I know that’s going to trigger some diehard Apple fans but it’s true. Apple is reluctant to innovate and put out the latest technology. Look at the 120 Hz refresh rate. Samsung has been doing that for a while now but Apple just got this on their phones. Have you seen the newest Samsung tablets. They’re outstanding. Also many components aren’t made by Apple. For example the screen on the iPhone is either so made by Samsung or LG I can’t remember which but it’s not an Apple screen
As I said before the only area Apple is ahead when it comes to hardware is the CPU. Qualcomm is catching up with that and the device hardware is more than just the CPU.
What those products lack is the Apple ecosystem and iOS or iPadOS. The reason why the iPad is considered superior is because of iPadOS and the Apple ecosystem. Apple is slow to improve hardware but steady in the sense that they make sure everything works right. If you put android on an iPad it wouldn’t be any better and probably would be worse than tablets made by Samsung. I don’t see why people think Apple hardware is somehow special or different than hardware sold by other manufacturers. It’s the combined ecosystem with that hardware. They pick hardware and make the operating system work with that specific hardware. It would be like making all Windows PC’s have the exact same hardware so Microsoft could fine tune the drivers and OS to work with it.
Apple could not host apps if they were not getting paid to do so. In the dream of payments outside the App Store the only way to do that would be sideloading and ditch the App Store. For updates you would have to figure out when they needed to be done or perhaps the app could have some sort of update mechanism to direct you to the website. Basically you would have what’s going on with android right now.
If you could download an app from a website... couldn't the app download updates from that same website?
We have Windows/Mac applications that can update themselves in-place. So it is possible.
As for subscription renewals... I don't see why those couldn't be handled in the app too. Or you might have to go to a website.
Isn't that what is expected by all these people who want sideloading? They don't want an app store handling all this stuff. They want to do it themselves.
I was just showing what it might look like with sideloading.
Sorry, I meant my reply as a rhetorical question to illustrate just how much the user experience could change. There would be several unintended consequences of what may seemingly appear to be a small change to the payment processing options available to developers.If you could download an app from a website... couldn't the app download updates from that same website?
We have Windows/Mac applications that can update themselves in-place. So it is possible.
As for subscription renewals... I don't see why those couldn't be handled in the app too. Or you might have to go to a website.
Isn't that what is expected by all these people who want sideloading? They don't want an app store handling all this stuff. They want to do it themselves.
I was just showing what it might look like with sideloading.
Understood.
And to be clear... I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
But it is something to think about when people say they want sideloading. These users will have to visit websites and create logins/passwords to purchase, download, install, and update apps. And give their credit card numbers to any number of various websites.
They won't have the simplicity of an app store handling all that stuff.
But freedom... right?