Illinois Floats Bill That Would Let Developers Skirt Apple's In-App Purchase Rules

[quatermass]

I honestly think when people make significant mistakes, it hurts them so bad they usually work very hard to not make them again.

I agree that stupidity NEEDS to be allowed to run its course through idiots.

No, that's not how it works. People make stupid mistakes which hurt them (and others), but rather than realise it was them that did something stupid, they blame everyone and everything else, and then do the same thing, over and over again, secure in the knowledge that they are smart and doing the right thing.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

Two things - Dunning-Kruger, and Stupidity Matrix: https://agrowthmind.com/2020/09/22/dunning-kruger-effect-the-laws-of-stupidity-and-why-i-hate-gurus/

In general people don't need protection from Big Companies, but from themselves and others like them - many of them also go into politics and make laws based on their own incompetence and stupidity.

 

[quatermass]

That's the point.

Download anything, be stupid, get robbed. Then learn not do that crap again.

Be smarter and do your due diligence on the apps you download. Its called self responsibility.

That is not what people do! They do the same stupid things, over and over again. It's called self delusion! They already know that they're smart, and don't need to do 'due diligence', because 'freedom' or something. Yours is a ridiculously naive standpoint. The whole point of things like the App Store is to stop the Stupid getting stiffed by the Bandits, and it's worked out pretty well for everyone so far.

Not perfect, some people don't like it, fair enough. Go somewhere else. Now another bunch of stupid people want it dismantled, and it sounds suspiciously like stupid people defending the rights of stupid people to do stupid things whenever and wherever they like, with no benefit to anyone. It's all depressingly predictable.

 

[themuseboy]

Well said. Trying to 'prevent' stupid mistakes by creating baby gates will never allow people to learn common sense and consider things with a critical mind.

I spent a good part of my career in IT customer service and I can tell you most people don't know how their iPhone or Apple products software works and DON'T care. They want to turn it on and have it "Just work". When it comes to software they ARE toddlers and they DO require baby gates. Common sense is not as common as you seem to think.

 

[vipergts2207]

Again the level of arrogance and self importance in your post is truly astonishing. What gives you any right to impose your will on another company to decide what they are allowed to do with their invention and product. The only power you are given is to chose not to financially support them, that is how free markets work. What right do you have impose your desires on other users who may not want the system to work in that way? I have zero desire for an open platform device, that is precisely why after doing my due diligence and researching my purchase I went with the Apple product. Again you have a perfectly viable option of another device if you do not like the way Apple runs its business. Last i checked there was no Apple Gang going around and holding weapons to peoples head forcing them to buy an Apple product. If you chose to buy a product that clearly is not marked to your desires, that has limitations you do not like that is 10000% on you. Your complaints and attempts to undermine that companies policies only highlight how selfish and frankly how completely self absorbed and self entitled a person you are.

I think you’re confused. They aren’t imposing their will on anyone. The legislature is imposing their will, which they have a right to do. The person you’re responding to just happens to agree with what they’re doing. There’s a difference.

 

[Hpereznoble2021]

Apple is totally abusing of its App Store power. Billions of users decided to download instagram & Facebook and other apps knowing its free in exchange of gathering data. "Then comes Apple and says: Dudes, your business model is not allowed anymore".

Its not valid for users to downloaded your app (knowing the tracking stuff and your business model), now they must also opt in for tracking.

If Apps (businesses) don't Agree with these terms, they are banned of the App Store. And there is no other place users can get those apps. THATS CRAZY AND NEEDS TO BE MODERATED!

 

[siddavis]

I would prefer if Congress would pass New Law that would create a 2nd iOS App Store that acts like a Utility, with a Fixed 7.5% fee across the Board for ALL transactions, with half going to maintain the Utility & half going to Apple.

IMO, Apple needs "App Discovery" competition more than anything !

For starters, I say let Apple keep the Game Apps, Apps for Little Kids, & Streaming Media Apps ... everything else, which accounts for about ONLY 10% of the App Store's revenue, should be allowed in the Utility iOS App Store !

Apple is resistant to change mostly because they don't want to lose-out on the Game Revenue, so lets remove it, & the others that Apple cares alot about, from the equation, & move forward !

Wait, you want the federal government to do this? Please point me to where this power is granted.

 

[svish]

With all the different lawsuits, Apple might have to implement alternate payment method.

 

[JM]

Well said. Trying to 'prevent' stupid mistakes by creating baby gates will never allow people to learn common sense and consider things with a critical mind.

Okay now I do.

(Your statements were really interesting to me and I couldn’t figure out why, or how to respond.)

It seems there is a fundamental perception about the role of government in people’s lives, and you’ve touched on it here: does the government have the responsibility to protect people from themselves? From others?

From others, I would say yes. From themselves, it depends: Does harming one’s self harm others?

In the case of scammy apps that scrape personal data, that’s harming others… and I would say the government has a responsibility to punish the bad actors.

As for $30 app subscriptions, if that $30 app subscription isn’t REASONABLY AND CLEARLY explained in the app description, then that’s akin to deception within trade, which there are ALREADY laws on the books to protect the consumer.

I don’t think it’s as simple as stating “you gotta let people make dumb mistakes to learn”. While I agree with that to an extent, there is a bit of critical thinking involved with making a judgement call of “how much is too much” when it comes to the lesson a person should learn.

$30 scammy app subscriptions seems like an unreasonable lesson plan for people when it just allows scammers to flourish at the expense of the unaware.

 

[subi257]

I want to be able to buy Kindle books directly in the iOS app, that's all.

That has nothing to do with this. Amazon does not allow Kindle books to be purchased from an iOS device as opposed to a Kindle reader....or computer web browser.

 

[subi257]

If they are going to pass this legislation why not do it to other big companies such as Walmart, Target, Amazon, Microsoft? Why Apple?

Is this even legal?

Exactly true. Ultimately I think all this will do is, make it not cost effective for the corporations and they might just kill off that part. If it get to the point where Apple feels it's no longer worth it, they could always just shut down the app store...or reconfigure it.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

All this crap is just being pushed by Google to destroy whatever extra security Apple has in their phones. Eventually it’s going to be where you just install whatever apps from whatever place you want to download them. Then people are going to be crying when their data and identity has been stolen ?‍♂️?

Google, or ALEC, or the Heritage Foundation, etc...

There are enough 'bill mills' out there that are warping reality. They are dangerous, and extremely well funded, and largely operating in darkness. Watch out for them...

 

[Hpereznoble2021]

All this crap is just being pushed by Google to destroy whatever extra security Apple has in their phones. Eventually it’s going to be where you just install whatever apps from whatever place you want to download them. Then people are going to be crying when their data and identity has been stolen ?‍♂️?

No dude, Apple is totally abusing of their App Store control. They are forcing entire business which relied on tracking to stop tracking. Thats unfair man.

If they don't follow Apples rules, they are banned of the App Store!

Unfair, we all dowloaded this apps accepting we will be tracked. Also, it would be much fair is you opt out of tracking, the app continues in the store but you get a black screen till you allow tracking, which is their business model.

This needs regulation

 

[vipergts2207]

Exactly true. Ultimately I think all this will do is, make it not cost effective for the corporations and they might just kill off that part. If it get to the point where Apple feels it's no longer worth it, they could always just shut down the app store...or reconfigure it.

If Apple shuts down the App Store, their smartphone market share will fall off a cliff. Who wants a phone with no ability to install third party apps? That's the part that frequently goes unacknowledged. Folks acts like Apple is being nothing but benevolent by allowing developers to develop for the App Store. However, Apple themselves benefit immensely from the store, even aside from the profits they skim off the top from devs.

 

[Rogifan]

That has nothing to do with this. Amazon does not allow Kindle books to be purchased from an iOS device as opposed to a Kindle reader....or computer web browser.

They don’t have IAP because they think it’s ridiculous that Apple should get 30% of every Kindle book sale. They’re right.

 

[960design]

When this walled garden finally busts open, someone please make an enhancement so I can plug my iPhone into a USB dock and use it as desktop. I’ll be your first customer.

 

[Rogifan]

None of these proposals say Apple can’t require that developers offer their IAP along side other options. Of course this isn’t about security or privacy or safety. This is about Apple collecting it’s commission. The company decided the easiest way to do that is to offer IAP and take a cut of every transaction. If they were smart they’d come up with a better way of charging developers for the privilege of being in the App Store and allow developers to use other payment options if they so chose.

 

[iOS Geek]

No dude, Apple is totally abusing of their App Store control. They are forcing entire business which relied on tracking to stop tracking. Thats unfair man.

If they don't follow Apples rules, they are banned of the App Store!

Unfair, we all dowloaded this apps accepting we will be tracked. Also, it would be much fair is you opt out of tracking, the app continues in the store but you get a black screen till you allow tracking, which is their business model.

This needs regulation

Maybe those businesses shouldn't have built a model that depended on tracking ?‍♂️ You can't have shady business practices and then act upset when people start to dislike those shady practices. I don't have Facebook on my iPhone. I don't even use it in Safari on my iPhone. Despite that...seeing how many times Facebook shows up in the App Privacy Report is shocking.

 

[BreakYurAnkles]

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

that is false.

 

[dandy1117]

I think the term "alternate payment options" implies there's more than one choice.

Both Google and Apple are very likely going to have to either (a) adapt and evolve or (b) raise prices of their next offering to hire more lawyers. The tsumami of global sentiment on this topic appears to lean towards the inevitable.

the alternative option is for the developer of the app to use for payment processing, not the users choice.

 

[russell_314]

No dude, Apple is totally abusing of their App Store control. They are forcing entire business which relied on tracking to stop tracking. Thats unfair man.

If they don't follow Apples rules, they are banned of the App Store!

Unfair, we all dowloaded this apps accepting we will be tracked. Also, it would be much fair is you opt out of tracking, the app continues in the store but you get a black screen till you allow tracking, which is their business model.

This needs regulation

Man so unfair that app devs can't force users to be tracked or lock them out of an app with a black screen. It's so unfair that app devs have to go by the rules. It would be so much better for users if Apple allowed sideloading so app devs could do whatever to collect users personal information.

 

[russell_314]

Wouldn't users be able to opt to use an alternate payment method? If someone prefers Apple's payment processing, go for it. If someone else prefers to use a 3rd party, well good for she/he.

I'm a fan of being treated like an adult and, if I use an alternate system and accept its associated (real or imagined) risks, then that's on me.

This football season I renewed my DAZN subscription but did not want them to have to fork over 30% to Apple. I went to their site, entered my payment information, and then launched the app on my devices. I do this for all my subscriptions so the providers don't have to give up almost a third of their revenue.

Choice, it's a beautiful thing.

The problem is the App Store would not work because no one would opt in to pay more. If I could go to Walmart and choose at the register to opt out of paying their 30-50% cut I would and most people would.

 

[BreakYurAnkles]

It's all depressingly predictable.

Seems like you're the one who knows exactly "how it all works" and "see everything" your posts are contradictions within themselves.

saying
THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS!
I KNOW THIS!
I KNOW THAT!
I KNOW EVERYTHING!


Ok man you're the expert and has the crystal ball.

do you have next weeks lotto numbers?

 

[BreakYurAnkles]

Okay now I do.

(Your statements were really interesting to me and I couldn’t figure out why, or how to respond.)

It seems there is a fundamental perception about the role of government in people’s lives, and you’ve touched on it here: does the government have the responsibility to protect people from themselves? From others?

From others, I would say yes. From themselves, it depends: Does harming one’s self harm others?

In the case of scammy apps that scrape personal data, that’s harming others… and I would say the government has a responsibility to punish the bad actors.

As for $30 app subscriptions, if that $30 app subscription isn’t REASONABLY AND CLEARLY explained in the app description, then that’s akin to deception within trade, which there are ALREADY laws on the books to protect the consumer.

I don’t think it’s as simple as stating “you gotta let people make dumb mistakes to learn”. While I agree with that to an extent, there is a bit of critical thinking involved with making a judgement call of “how much is too much” when it comes to the lesson a person should learn.

$30 scammy app subscriptions seems like an unreasonable lesson plan for people when it just allows scammers to flourish at the expense of the unaware.

give me liberty or give me death.

that's the biggest most costly lesson to be learned.

 

[subi257]

If Apple shuts down the App Store, their smartphone market share will fall off a cliff. Who wants a phone with no ability to install third party apps? That's the part that frequently goes unacknowledged. Folks acts like Apple is being nothing but benevolent by allowing developers to develop for the App Store. However, Apple themselves benefit immensely from the store, even aside from the profits they skim off the top from devs.

Yes, I completely understand that. But on the other side of that there is a cost to Apple to maintain, operate and develop all of their end to make it all happen. I honestly don't know and if anybody on these forums claims to know...I won't buy it.....but Whose server farms is Apple using to host the app store, iTunes, etc? are they using Google, AWS? so they have to pay the going rate to them and if they own their own farms then they bare the cost of running and supporting it. That is crazy expensive. I work in a corporate video environment and our video editing servers go EOL and need to be replaced every 5 years at a rate of $100k for each 200TB chassis. we have 4 of them. I honestly can't say if the 30% its justified, but there has to be a percentage for running all of it and make a few bucks from it. There are a for profit corporation and obligated under corporate rules to provide best possible ROI for investors.

I think we as a country are in for a rough ride going forward as there seems to be so much upheaval for existing global "supply chain", manufacturing and how companies are allowed to do business within different countries and here even between states.

 

[subi257]

They don’t have IAP because they think it’s ridiculous that Apple should get 30% of every Kindle book sale. They’re right.

But it's okay that Amazon is getting a big chunk of every book sold on Kindle? This has been the business model of all the major players for a long time. So, we are on the edge of upending all the way all businesses (global and domestic) work and make new rules for how they do business in every different country and now maybe in every different state.