Illinois Floats Bill That Would Let Developers Skirt Apple's In-App Purchase Rules

[Jakewilk]

And what prevents those developers from stopping support of using apple payment system once they have their own? Why should Apple provide all the backbone, the equipment, the software features that the programs use to enhance their function (Augmented reality etc.) just so some App developer that had none of the investment in that Apple does can get rich without paying their dues? Why should digital enterprises not have the same burden that physical stores do? If you create a physical product and you want to have it sold in target or walmart you have to pay whatever walmart wants to charge for that. How is that perfectly acceptable but Apple doing the same thing is not?

Again what is fair to one side in your example is completely unfair to the other. Where as currently 80-90% of the app developers are only in business because Apple created a platform for them. Look at phones prior to Apple, with snake being the most exciting game you could find and there was almost non existent phone app market.

The decision to allow this wont only have a negative affect on Apple and other Smart phones in the future, but an incredibly destructive impact on innovation as a whole. Why invest millions of dollars creating a whole new platform and industry only to have small special interest groups and people willing to lobby the government to come and take that away from you? If you think companies like Apple or even Google will continue to invest heavily in systems where there is a good chance that someone is going to push the government into wresting control from them, you are kidding yourself. So if you want to see new and exciting platforms and products in the future you better hope this kind of bill gets squashed quickly.

1) developers do a lot of work to make their apps great and if they were allowed to make alternative payment options alongside apple’s it would require that they handle payments without apple. In that case apple is only the distributor on their own devices—a role they are unwilling to share (as is fair, in my mind). But apple’s right to other people’s software ends at distribution.

2) Having alternate in app purchase options is not at all like a store not getting commission. The developer made the app and once you leave the app store and enter that app you are no longer in apple’s store—you’re in the developer’s.

3) like you said, competition on apple’s platforms is not good for apple. But it is very good for developers and users, or in other words, its bad for one company and good for the people

 

[BradWI]

Apple needs to start splitting their APIs into 2 groups. One barebones set that any developer can use, and then the "good stuff" that developers can use only if they use Apple's app store and IAP system. If developers don't want to pay for the work Apple has done, they shouldn't be allowed to benefit from that development.

 

[subi257]

1) developers do a lot of work to make their apps great and if they were allowed to make alternative payment options alongside apple’s it would require that they handle payments without apple. In that case apple is only the distributor on their own devices—a role they are unwilling to share (as is fair, in my mind). But apple’s right to other people’s software ends at distribution.

2) Having alternate in app purchase options is not at all like a store not getting commission. The developer made the app and once you leave the app store and enter that app you are no longer in apple’s store—you’re in the developer’s.

3) like you said, competition on apple’s platforms is not good for apple. But it is very good for developers and users, or in other words, its bad for one company and good for the people

And once a company decides that something is not good for them, they need to change the way they do business. They can/should have monthly subscription charges for using their development API's to be in the app store in the first place. Just like all of the softwares are going subscription based....Adobe, MS, etc. Just like any store virtual or brick and mortar, you need to work out a deal beneficial to both or you don't get "shelf space" in that store.

Developers do a lot of work to make their apps great.....Apple did a lot of work to make the app store great and develop that API's to help developers viable. Apple was the one that created a need for developers in the first place. If the Apple app store, Google Play store, etc went away (not that they will truly go away, but they could change the way they operate) The developer world might dry up and blow away....except for the bigger ones and can be stand alone. There needs to be meet in the middle and where it works profitability for both sides.

 

[Cosmosent]

IMO, fear of Sideloading is very-likely the ONLY thing that will get Apple to the bargaining table !

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The whole reason Apple is in this ********* is that the developers no longer accept the percentage they ask as reasonable.

No, realistically, it’s a very small number of developers that have a problem with it. The vast majority are quietly just making their money.

If you want to avoid all this hassle just lower the percentage for everyone to 5% or 8% or whatever number is accepted by your developers and all legal stuff will go away before any new laws are implemented basically taking that option off the table.

For that tiny few that are complaining, there is no amount greater than 0% that would be accepted. And, even with that, there’d still be a small number of developers saying that Apple makes enough money and should be paying THEM. Anything beyond where Apple is now would be an attempt to satisfy a tiny group of folks that will realistically never be satisfied. Better to focus on providing a service for those that find value IN that service. For those that don’t, there are other platforms they can move to.

 

[subi257]

IMO, fear of Sideloading is very-likely the ONLY thing that will get Apple to the bargaining table !

Key words....Bargaining table! I has to be amicable on both sides. if it is not profitable to both sides then there is no point to the losing side to continue....or just change the process to create a new path for profit. Neither side is in it for "the fun of it"

 

[Unregistered 4U]

No, that's not how it works. People make stupid mistakes which hurt them (and others), but rather than realise it was them that did something stupid, they blame everyone and everything else, and then do the same thing, over and over again, secure in the knowledge that they are smart and doing the right thing.

WOW, so very true. I mean, look at the folks that continue to buy Apple products even though, apparently, side loading is VERY VERY important to them

In general people don't need protection from Big Companies, but from themselves and others like them - many of them also go into politics and make laws based on their own incompetence and stupidity.

Correct. With the improvements in computing systems over the years, the number one vector for exploit of any device, is the human that has control over the device. Provide them the steps by which they can decrease the security of their device, and it’s guaranteed that someone will talk/coerce/cajole them through the process.

 

[_Spinn_]

This patchwork of regulations is going to turn the App Store into a mess.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple needs to start splitting their APIs into 2 groups. One barebones set that any developer can use, and then the "good stuff" that developers can use only if they use Apple's app store and IAP system. If developers don't want to pay for the work Apple has done, they shouldn't be allowed to benefit from that development.

Apple created the phone hardware, too. If developers REALLY don’t want to pay for the work Apple has done, they shouldn’t release applications for the iPhone.

The RIGHT choices to make are always pretty clear. Unfortunately, there are many folks that feel they’re entitled to buy/own/develop for the iPhone so any rational logic that includes “no iPhone” is rejected!

 

[960design]

When this walled garden finally busts open, someone please make an enhancement so I can plug my iPhone into a USB dock and use it as desktop. I’ll be your first customer.

So close! If only I could get it to connect and sync through magnetic connection.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I has to be amicable on both sides. if it is not profitable to both sides then there is no point to the losing side to continue....or just change the process to create a new path for profit. Neither side is in it for "the fun of it"

It’s already profitable for both sides, very much so. It’s already amicable for both sides, for both Apple and VERY large numbers of developers. There’s a tiny number of developers that will not accept ANY reasonable concessions, so it doesn’t make sense to even start bargaining with that group.

 

[Rogifan]

But it's okay that Amazon is getting a big chunk of every book sold on Kindle? This has been the business model of all the major players for a long time. So, we are on the edge of upending all the way all businesses (global and domestic) work and make new rules for how they do business in every different country and now maybe in every different state.

And I have no problem with Apple getting a cut of book sales purchased through the books app. But why should they get a cut of sales in Amazon’s app?

 

[subi257]

And I have no problem with Apple getting a cut of book sales purchased through the books app. But why should they get a cut of sales in Amazon’s app?

That's not what I was saying. I was saying that Amazon gets a very nice healthy cut for all books sales from the publisher on the Kindle store.

 

[Rogifan]

Apple needs to start splitting their APIs into 2 groups. One barebones set that any developer can use, and then the "good stuff" that developers can use only if they use Apple's app store and IAP system. If developers don't want to pay for the work Apple has done, they shouldn't be allowed to benefit from that development.

Outside of games and some creativity/productivity apps how much of an app’s success is due to Apple’s APIs? Is there some amazing Apple IP that Amazon is using in the Kindle app? Apple makes the majority of it’s App Store revenue from game IAPs. They should just implement a policy whereby all non-game apps are allowed to use their own IAP (while offering Apple’s IAP alongside). Or make every app cost something and take a cut of that.

 

[Rogifan]

That's not what I was saying. I was saying that Amazon gets a very nice healthy cut for all books sales from the publisher on the Kindle store.

And? I’m sure Apple gets something similar on the Books store.

 

[I7guy]

Outside of games and some creativity/productivity apps how much of an app’s success is due to Apple’s APIs?

Apples APIs are the reason they are charging the commission.

Is there some amazing Apple IP that Amazon is using in the Kindle app?

Every app on an iphone is using Apple IP.

Apple makes the majority of it’s App Store revenue from game IAPs. They should just implement a policy whereby all non-game apps are allowed to use their own IAP (while offering Apple’s IAP alongside). Or make every app cost something and take a cut of that.

 

[palev]

Why should you have a choice that negatively impacts on others when you already have a viable alternative in using a non iOS device. You do not like the control that Apple imposes on their phones here is a simply solution, do not buy one. Start taking some personal responsibility for your own life and choices. If you buy a device knowing full well it does not have the options you want, you have zero right to cry about it when there was a perfectly acceptable alternative that did every thing you want. All your crying about how you cant have your iPhone the way you want it make you look selfish and highly uneducated since you couldnt do a 5 minute google search to see if it had the options you wanted.

Your choice of allowing alternative installation choices 100% decreases the security of everyone else who does not want that decision. Think of it like a brick wall without any windows or doors. As soon as you add either a window or a door it is now 50% less secure than it was. It does not matter how good a lock you put on the door, it will never be again as secure as it was when it was just a wall. So as soon as Apple creates an opening in the iOS that allows for your selfish desire, that affects everyone even if they never install anything off a third party stores. As soon as there is a new access point some group of hackers will spend hours finding a way to exploit it, that is proven history and has happened 1000s of times on other devices and platforms.

Again stop trying to stifle choice for others. You do not like being told you can't run something on your device, then do not bloody well buy that device, buy the one that does what you want. And don't pretend you do not have a choice, if your work requires you to use a specific device for your business then they should be providing it or subsidizing it and you should be buying your own personal device for your own personal uses. Again it is so exhausting to constantly here these people that think they are the only ones who should have choice, get over yourself, you are not a special snow flake and the world does not revolve around you. Pick the device that meets your needs, otherwise you have no one and I mean 10000% no one other than yourself to blame if you are not satisfied, Apple has had the store in the same format for over 10 years now, there is literally zero excuse for not knowing other than complete laziness and lack of self responsibility.

Well said!! That is exactly what I have been trying to put into words. Thank you

 

[subi257]

And? I’m sure Apple gets something similar on the Books store.

You keep skirting the issue. The point is all of the large "hosting/selling" platforms are charging their content suppliers similar percentages.

 

[djphat2000]

The writing is on the wall. Whether you like it not, or whether Apple likes it or not ... their policy of 'walled garden' BS is going to end sooner than later.

You want security? Don't be a dumbass when purchasing stuff. The best security is people being somewhat intelligent and not paying $30 annual subscriptions for crap. At the end of the day, Apple can't prevent stupidity. And they shouldn't try to!

Treating people like ignorant babies is never gonna work out.

Apple is almost a $3 Trillion dollar company. It's "been" working out.
People don't have to buy anything from Apple. They have choice. Stop pretending they don't. You bought and iPhone. If you don't like the rules, you can take it back to the store for your money back. If you have had the device long enough. Make sure your next purchase is a Windows phone, or one of a million Android phones. Or even a Blackberry (oh wait...).

 

[subi257]

Outside of games and some creativity/productivity apps how much of an app’s success is due to Apple’s APIs? Is there some amazing Apple IP that Amazon is using in the Kindle app? Apple makes the majority of it’s App Store revenue from game IAPs. They should just implement a policy whereby all non-game apps are allowed to use their own IAP (while offering Apple’s IAP alongside). Or make every app cost something and take a cut of that.

This whole thing is stupid....ultimately it's Apple's store and no company should be told how to run their business by any government....unless they are doing something...actually illegal. Charging what some are calling too much is not necessarily illegal, it's just their choice. Normally if a company is over priced, customers will go somewhere else and the suppliers will follow. Apple is not the only game in town and if developers left customers would eventually leave.

 

[subi257]

And? I’m sure Apple gets something similar on the Books store.

On their book store...of course they do and they should. It's their store and they are in business for profit.

 

[kiv.atso]

Stop using apps where IAP required to enable app functionality. Problem solved ?

IAP and digital subscriptions is just a way to get more money from people’s pockets by greedy developers.

Spend your hard earned cash on something more important.

 

[boyarka]

But it's okay that Amazon is getting a big chunk of every book sold on Kindle? This has been the business model of all the major players for a long time. So, we are on the edge of upending all the way all businesses (global and domestic) work and make new rules for how they do business in every different country and now maybe in every different state.

The topic here is to let people choose their stores and if they'd like to pay trough some other method.

Man so unfair that app devs can't force users to be tracked or lock them out of an app with a black screen. It's so unfair that app devs have to go by the rules. It would be so much better for users if Apple allowed sideloading so app devs could do whatever to collect users personal information.

Gee, if it's that bad I wonder how things work on computers... oh, that's right: people if they want to go to the OS mfg's store and buy/download software there. Or they don't, and download it somewhere else, at another store. Or no store at all and get free software from some website. Or they run their own!
But wait what's that you say... run you OWN? Ddownload from some website? How does that even work, no security, no Pontifex Maxumus St Cook blessing it first?

This is the real issue here. Not just apps, not just payment methods, but the whole ecosystem as a whole: Apple decides what's best for the user... and if they're right they're right. But if they're not then f*** you our system don't like it get something else. This is the foundation of this whole issue - to let people have a choice in pretty much everything (or at least a lot) or have them locked tight in the kindrgarten that is the Apple ecosystem - where all things work the way Apple wants but where nobody else has a say. Like in a hapoy dictatorship... like I don't know... the IT version of Saudi Arabia. Yes, lots lf ritches, lots of fancy cars and good roads. But then there's sharia and all the rest.

 

[JM]

give me liberty or give me death.

that's the biggest most costly lesson to be learned.

I feel incredibly blessed that I don’t have to make a life or death decision like that, to learn a lesson.

*sorry, I just got a little correction at work. Feeling deflated.

 

[subi257]

The topic here is to let people choose their stores and if they'd like to pay trough some other method.

Gee, if it's that bad I wonder how things work on computers... oh, that's right: people if they want to go to the OS mfg's store and buy/download software there. Or they don't, and download it somewhere else, at another store. Or no store at all and get free software from some website. Or they run their own!
But wait what's that you say... run you OWN? Ddownload from some website? How does that even work, no security, no Pontifex Maxumus St Cook blessing it first?

This is the real issue here. Not just apps, not just payment methods, but the whole ecosystem as a whole: Apple decides what's best for the user... and if they're right they're right. But if they're not then f*** you our system don't like it get something else. This is the foundation of this whole issue - to let people have a choice in pretty much everything (or at least a lot) or have them locked tight in the kindrgarten that is the Apple ecosystem - where all things work the way Apple wants but where nobody else has a say. Like in a hapoy dictatorship... like I don't know... the IT version of Saudi Arabia. Yes, lots lf ritches, lots of fancy cars and good roads. But then there's sharia and all the rest.

I fully understand what the topic here is. However in the grand scheme, the topic is much broader and has further reaching implications than you are accepting to.