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The iMac cost 3K? What was it’s configuration/performance vs the Mac Studio you have now?

That's a surprise? Top level 5K iMac 27" with extra memory and larger SSD easily topped 3K. I believe mine is 2 TB and 32 gig (maybe more). My buddy maxed out a intel based 27" before they were dropped and it was even more. Heck, even the little 24" current model comes in at 2500.00 fully loaded.


Robert
 
As much as I love this Apple Studio Display, I can't disagree that it feels expensive. But I don't think it feels like it's a poor value. Admittedly, value is subjective and so if the display doesn't do the things you care about it's going to feel like a poor value to you.

Totally, it is subjective.

But - poor (subjective) value doesn't mean it sucks. I know folks want all these specs (more nits, mini-LED panels, HDR labels, more, more, more...) but the truth of it is that it doesn't matter in use to a large number of people who might buy this monitor. Personally, I value the MacOS integration above all else. I know that my 14" M1Pro MBP display has all the specs but, to my eye, the ASD looks just as good. Sure the deep blacks aren't quite as black, and the highlights aren't quite as bright, but the image quality absolutely stunning.

Honestly I'm disappointed in some ways because of my own fault. I was hoping Apple would release a 27" XDR. For me 32" is too large as I like to have 3 x 27" on my desk and 3 x 32" would just be too much. I used to have 3 x 30" Dells, like you the 3007WFP-HC and 3008WFP's. From 2009-2018 I ran with those. And then I went down a smidge to the 27" size and preferred it plus the specs were better at that size now it seems the 32" sizes (like the Pro Display XDR) are getting the best specs, even the gaming 4K 144Hz panels with G-Sync and 512 zone HDR are coming in the 32" size.

Also - I had no idea about 4K vs 5k and MacOS scaling until I saw some of the arguments about this panel. What I can tell you is that I bought 3 different 4K panels in December and returned each and everyone of them because they didn't look good to me subjectively. There was something 'not right' about how they looked. And I was coming off a 2560 x 1600 non-retina 30" Dell. The 4K panels should have blown my mind, but none of them did.

This is likely just the matte vs glossy thing to be honest with you. Apple using glossy really makes colours pop and look more vibrant, not much to do with the 4K vs 5K thing. But having said that, not many manufacturers offer the ability to go glossy for an external display like Apple, making the studio have a feature some may want. And like yeah it works, their glossy displays do pop and look more colourful as a result.

The ASD just works right out of the box - no glitches, no failures to sleep/wake or other compatibility issues that I have seen with other non-Apple monitors. The sound is amazing and I love that I can adjust volume and brightness from the keyboard. Even autobrightness works really well. Heck the webcam is good enough for work Zoom calls and people get a kick out of Center Stage when someone else walks into the frame.

This is all true with all the monitors I've used with macOS regarding sleep/wake working fine, no glitches etc - To get the display brightness controls to work with macOS for third party displays I use an app called Lunar, it uses the Display Port and HDMI control channels to actually control 3rd party monitor brightness properly like an official Apple display. It can even use the ambient light sensor on your Mac to do it automatically and it has other useful features too like it can automatically turn off your laptops display when connected to an external if desired.

Check it out here for anyone reading who wants a more Apple-like experience with their external display.

It's not labeled HDR, but it's more HDR than some HDR-labeled monitors. 600 nits might not be the sexy 1,000 nits of other monitors, but my desk is alongside a window and on a sunny day, I have no problems with the ASD. The colors 'pop' comparably to the MacBook's display and they look perfect side-by-side.

I think 600 nits is nice and all but I'd probably run it at 300-350 anyway. For me as a HDR purist I'd want lighting zones. Cause it's no good having one bright thing in a scene and the rest of the screen is blown out because it only has a single backlight across the whole panel. HDR just doesn't work well without zones, it may actually make the viewing experience a lot worse even.

I started this thread because I felt that the YouTuber's were giving this thing short-shrift based on the specs, but not actual use. They also beat up on it because of price vs competition. I can't defend the price, but come on it's Apple - the same company that charges $19 for a polishing cloth. But it doesn't suck. Far from it. For me, it has been $1600 well spent.

I'd say the power cable and stand situation sucks quite bad to be honest. Webcam seems like it's sub-par even with their updates but that's just my opinion, I'm someone that setup a DSLR as a webcam when lockdowns started and I'd find it hard to go back to this grainy looking image but that's just again a personal thing. I'm sure the speakers are nice having the 16" MBP and knowing how tiny those speakers are but the sound they deliver the studio is probably really good.

I wouldn't mind this thing so much if they said okay this is the Studio Display and here also is the Studio Display XDR that had the HDR FALD backlighting with 10,000 MiniLED's etc - I'd have even looked past the stand and power cord to get it and paid an extra thousand bucks.

If they refresh the 32" XDR again before releasing a 27" I may have to bite the bullet and go all 32". I'm gonna need a larger desk.

If you are using the display for text rather than images, then 5K versus 4K is a pretty big deal. For text work, you should never run a Mac at anything other than 200% scale. This is actually not a subjective opinion, at any other scale you’re defeating the font rendering engine by resampling the screen image from 5K to 4K. So, yes there are great 4K displays but their use on the Mac is compromised by either giving you less screen space or having a degraded image quality. If you’re doing photo work then a 4K monitor won’t have exactly the same problems. I do think that Apple could have and should have made Mac OS work well with 4K displays at fractional scale but at some point they likely came to the conclusion that then vast majority of Mac users were using displays that Apple provided (laptops, iMacs) which they had control over the resolution and pixel density of and that they weren’t going to bother making the rendering system truly scale independent the way that Windows did.

This is really subjective, like I can barely tell the difference haha, the pixel density is already so high. Maybe if it was a 32" or 40" screen sure but I don't agree at 27" that 4K vs 5K is that noticeable. I even run my 16" display at the highest desktop size to get more real-estate and it's not that different there either the PPI is very high.

Maybe I just need my eyes checked :D
 
Apple did one insane thing. Truly crazy. I work in the film industry and we spend money on luxury items for jobs like water.
But I'm telling you, from editors to DP's, the studio display lost a ton of business over the silly mount option. At this point it's like making a steering wheel optional in a car. It burned off business in an arena Apple should have been more careful about. The negative press on that dumb stand won't have much of an effect on Apple for now. Apple has traditionally been arrogant and steadfast against clear errors in judgement or problems with production.
400 dollars for an adjustable stand that should be standard is nuts. It's one of those terrible ideas that makes people wonder who's steering the boat. A few tweaks to the specs, a proper stand and a price of 1399.00 and Apple would have had a #1 monitor on their hands anywhere near the price. Instead I see videos and forum threads about Apple gouging and which alternatives make more sense. They will sell a lot of them. But they will also drive far more business elsewhere.

The studio display is a bad move by Apple. It's almost inexplicably stupid. And it's mainly the 400 dollar stand option, a standard spec on planet Earth, that highlights their folly.

Robert
 
That's a surprise? Top level 5K iMac 27" with extra memory and larger SSD easily topped 3K. I believe mine is 2 TB and 32 gig (maybe more).
...but the thing is:

- A 10 Core i9 iMac with 5700 XT GPU cost $3200, plus $600 for the upgrade to 32GB => $3800
- A base 10 Core CPU/32 Core GPU M1 Max Studio including 32GB RAM costs $2200 => $3800 with a Studio Display

Spooky.

All the reports I've seen show that the 32-core GPU M1 Max (example) comfortably outperforms the i9 iMac with 5700XT. The Studio Ultra would be taking you into $7000+ 18-core iMac Pro territory.

OK, so, in practice, many people would have saved a few hundred bucks by getting 3rd party RAM for the iMac, not an option for the Studio - on the other hand I've given the iMac the benefit of the doubt and assumed that you'd need the full 32 GPU core M1 Max to beat the 5700 XT.

...but, basically, a Mac Studio + Studio Display is in the same price ballpark as a higher end iMac. It's the low-end ~ $2000 iMacs where the price of the studio display bites.

OTOH, I welcome gaining the choice to use other types of display with a Mac Studio.
 
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Apple using glossy really makes colours pop and look more vibrant

I have to be honest, it wears my eyes out as I've gotten older and I much prefer some type of NR/Matte coating
Of course, being Apple, that option naturally costs more yet again
:confused::rolleyes:
 
The glossy display is not great for photo work...or video. Anyone go to the movies and watch a glossy movie? When I go to print, the Dell gets me closer to matching output than the Mac. So all of that "pop" looks nice, but it's really just harder on the eyes, reflects the room and is less accurate for me.

Again, Apple makes nice displays, but this new model is laughable. They could/should have done better. I could do better product planning in my sleep.


Robert
 
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Apple did one insane thing. Truly crazy. I work in the film industry and we spend money on luxury items for jobs like water.
But I'm telling you, from editors to DP's, the studio display lost a ton of business over the silly mount option. At this point it's like making a steering wheel optional in a car. It burned off business in an arena Apple should have been more careful about. The negative press on that dumb stand won't have much of an effect on Apple for now. Apple has traditionally been arrogant and steadfast against clear errors in judgement or problems with production.
400 dollars for an adjustable stand that should be standard is nuts. It's one of those terrible ideas that makes people wonder who's steering the boat. A few tweaks to the specs, a proper stand and a price of 1399.00 and Apple would have had a #1 monitor on their hands anywhere near the price. Instead I see videos and forum threads about Apple gouging and which alternatives make more sense. They will sell a lot of them. But they will also drive far more business elsewhere.

The studio display is a bad move by Apple. It's almost inexplicably stupid. And it's mainly the 400 dollar stand option, a standard spec on planet Earth, that highlights their folly.

Robert

You know, I was watching Rene Ritchie's video on the iPad recently and I think he touched on something that has been a problem with Apple lately. When Steve Jobs took over the company, he gave us the iMac, the iPhone, and the iPad. He made it pretty dang clear that his main purpose was to provide easy to use and intuitive devices that anyone could use. But, during the Tim Cook era, Apple executives and engineers started getting sucked into the "nerd" echo chamber (for lack of a better term) who were all whining and complaining about how Apple wasn't making high end, feature rich devices for them. I suspect the change began with iOS 7, the dropping of skeuomorphism and the ousting of Scott Forstall (I loved the skeuomorphic design and hated the stupid flat design that came after, but Ive apparently hated the skeuomorphic design, regardlesss of how popular it may or may not have been with iPhone and iPad users). Now, the pendulum has swung the other direction, and the "nerds" are getting their wishes fulfilled and are happy (mostly, these guys will always find something to complain about), but now it's the rest of us who are increasingly getting locked out of Apple's price escalating ecosystem because Apple is making devices for the fan boi's while the average person who want's a device that "just works" is getting left behind.

It just feels like tech elitism. Any other company (Microsoft, Google, etc) and we might not be surprised, but Apple under Jobs built a company for the masses. Now they've shifted direction and are rebuilding the company for the tech elite (aka nerds and fan boi's who've got the money) and leaving the masses behind (maybe not for iPhone, but for other devices, especially computers). Those of us who follow Apple, but stop short of being "everything Apple" nerds, are noticing this while most people probably just know something's off without really knowing why.

Well, that's how I see it anyway.
 
I wouldn't say they're catering to the nerds but they're certainly raising prices because that's how you make more money without creating more stuff. $500 Airpods Max are a good example of this strategy as is the Pro Display XDR at $4999 with a $999 stand etc, the $700 Mac Pro wheels.

Look at the Apple Watch coming out originally in a $10,000 gold version for the elite that Apple gave for free to a bunch of celebrities. Their purchase of Beats. I mean there's so many avenues they've gone where it's not really about specs so much as increasing money generated and retained with larger profit margins.

I read once that even though Apple is only 25% of the phone market they take 75% of the profits and that is because of phones like the iPhone X which let them raise prices and keep them high. I remember so many posts on there, literally hundreds of pages and thousands of posts about how $999 for a phone was ridiculous and that Apple was insane. People were really split down the middle on it but here we are spending $1199 or even $1499 etc on phones (Max size and larger storage variants).

Apple will always want to price things as high as they can go to maximise the revenue and profit of each product, there's very few exceptions, I think most calculations put their products at a 65% to 75% profit margin when only looking at the bill of materials, obviously they have a lot more overheads than that but you look at other technology companies and their margins under the same metrics are in the 5% to 15% range etc
 
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I think you have a point, but Apple should be careful. I live nicely...poolhouse in LA, sailing yacht, fast cars and so on. I can pretty much buy what I want, so the price of a studio display doesn't bug me.

6 weeks ago I ran out to buy my first EV and it seemed Tesla was the way to go. I test drove a few Tesla's and was about to buy one when I learned about the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6. I test drove both and there was no way in hell I was going to buy the Tesla. The Tesla was a poor car (and value) against the newer EV cars. Even the Ford Mach E was nicer. It wasn't even close! So I bought an EV6 and haven't looked back.

A luxury label isn't worth very much these days. I've owned 5 Mercedes and my Kia and Mazda are nicer cars. Apple is resting a LOT on a reputation for quality that is really mostly smoke and mirrors. They aren't Rolex.

The studio display is a consumer grade product with some very bad ideas and a top tier price for the class. You get the Apple name and maybe that's enough for some buyers. Apple continues to make money, in spite of poor choices, but the reality is that they're actually losing money because the potential isn't being touched upon. They're still selling computers with TINY SSD drives as standard. They try to offer the least for the highest prices. Fanboys defend all of this and that's fine. Apple built that fanbase. But I'm old enough to see through all that. None of this makes their new display "bad" by any measure. It's an excellent product in some respects. But the backlash was totally their own fault. It's an incredibly dumb bit of engineering and pricing in 2022 and nothing, not even the fanboys, can change that.

Robert
 
Apple should have included the adjustable stand and maybe tried for a slightly larger screen. That would have gone a LONG way towards getting my order. It's certainly a good monitor, but the value is really in the toilet. 2 grand for the Studio Display with 400 bucks toward the stand? Crazy sauce. And that's coming from a guy who spends silly amounts of money on high-end audio!
I think there’s a sales and profit number they wanted to hit and this price gets them there in 5-6 years.When you consider that Apple’s last monitor (prior to the XDR one) was only sold for about 5 years, it makes sense to me.
 
That's a surprise? Top level 5K iMac 27" with extra memory and larger SSD easily topped 3K. I believe mine is 2 TB and 32 gig (maybe more). My buddy maxed out a intel based 27" before they were dropped and it was even more. Heck, even the little 24" current model comes in at 2500.00 fully loaded.
No, not a surprise. It’s just that with a current Mac Studio, $3,000 gets way more computer than a $3,000 iMac. Because Apple doesn’t have the 5k on their store anymore, I’m not able to build one out to see where the cost line crosses. Putting a larger SSD and memory in a low end Studio puts me at $2599 and that would be more performant than the iMac 5K was.
 
Apple did one insane thing. Truly crazy. I work in the film industry and we spend money on luxury items for jobs like water.
But I'm telling you, from editors to DP's, the studio display lost a ton of business over the silly mount option.
Apple’s more in the computer, phone, tablet business. The display is a side gig at best. If those editors and DP’s buy a Mac but don’t buy the display, I think Apple’s OK with that.
 
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It just feels like tech elitism. Any other company (Microsoft, Google, etc) and we might not be surprised, but Apple under Jobs built a company for the masses.
It’s actually funny that anyone can look at the prices of Macs vs PC’s over the years and come away with the idea that Apple products were made “for the masses”.
 
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It’s actually funny that anyone can look at the prices of Macs vs PC’s over the years and come away with the idea that Apple products were made “for the masses”.

Comparable PC's are no longer cheap. Setting up a comparable workstation in Windows wouldn't save me much, if anything. I only stay with Mac because it's the standard in the film industry.

Apple's focus is clearly fully on profits and NOT on building great gear. The Studio Display could have been at the top of the food chain, but it's not.
 
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Comparable PC's are no longer cheap. Setting up a comparable workstation in Windows wouldn't save me much, if anything. I only stay with Mac because it's the standard in the film industry.

Apple's focus is clearly fully on profits and NOT on building great gear. The Studio Display could have been at the top of the food chain, but it's not.
All things being equal, if one bumps an average PC up to Apple’s specs, the delta decreases significantly. The point is that Apple’s never produced a system as cheaply as those PC’s that are REALLY made for the masses. Mac’s have always been for the moneyed few million. The Studio Display is not an exception, it’s the rule.
 
Comparable PC's are no longer cheap. Setting up a comparable workstation in Windows wouldn't save me much, if anything. I only stay with Mac because it's the standard in the film industry.

Apple's focus is clearly fully on profits and NOT on building great gear. The Studio Display could have been at the top of the food chain, but it's not.
True.

Also people forget the Mac Studio is not meant for average Joe... as per the display, I have to see at least an HDR addition would have made it better. Other than that...

As per price point, yes there is a theme on profits going on, but at the same time, I have a slight suspicion it's not meant for the crowd as well... Just like XDR display, that's meant for big companies with budgets for that type of tech.
 
All things being equal, if one bumps an average PC up to Apple’s specs, the delta decreases significantly.
...usually up to the point where you need to upgrade the RAM and SSD, where Apple low-balls the base specs and charges usurious markups for BTO upgrades. Most obvious with the old 5k iMacs and remaining Intel Minis where you can directly compare the price of DDR4 SODIMMs. Apple Silicon has muddied the waters a bit - LPDDR RAM is always soldered-in and having it on-package has speed advantages and T2/M1 Macs have on-chip SSD controllers so M.2 cards aren't relevant, but it's still commodity LPDDR and Flash chips that cost a fraction of Apple's BTO prices.

One thing Apple Silicon has done is to make it uneconomical for Apple to continue the joke of shipping high-end Macs with 8GB RAM...

The Studio Display is not an exception, it’s the rule.
The trouble is that the low-end 5k iMacs set the customer expectation that a 5k screen should cost under $1000.
(Even though the top-end iMacs cost as much as a Studio Max + Studio display).

Mac’s have always been for the moneyed few million.

...and unfortunately they're taking the modern luxury car maker's approach to that - low ball the base model and charge a fortune for "extras". The Studio Display would have been better received but for the $400 extra stand and the non-removable power cord (which just reminds me of the cheap displays you'd get bundled with a cheap beige-box PC system).

Even with Apple, its not long ago that you'd get a cleaning cloth in the box, that a new power supply would come with the charge cable and extension cord etc. Once upon a time you used to get things like display adaptors (DVI to VGA in the day) thrown in with your MacBook... Sometimes, Apple today just come over as greedy.
 
The stand is insulting.

The fixed cord is just....a shame. It cheapens the product in a way that's almost hard to describe. What good quality electronics have fixed power cords? I literally don't own anything beyond the stuff in my kitchen that does that, but that's done for a real reason. Apple took the same approach as Black & Decker does with their toasters! LOL

No way, Apple. You built a truly dumb monitor.
 
The stand is insulting.

The fixed cord is just....a shame. It cheapens the product in a way that's almost hard to describe. What good quality electronics have fixed power cords? I literally don't own anything beyond the stuff in my kitchen that does that, but that's done for a real reason. Apple took the same approach as Black & Decker does with their toasters! LOL

No way, Apple. You built a truly dumb monitor.
It's odd isn't it? a Studio display that you as the owner cannot change the mount on and has a non-removable power cord (I mean technically it is removable but it also looks like that amount of force may break the monitor if done more than a few times).

Real odd choices for such a high priced display.
 
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It's odd isn't it? a Studio display that you as the owner cannot change the mount on and has a non-removable power cord (I mean technically it is removable but it also looks like that amount of force may break the monitor if done more than a few times).

Real odd choices for such a high priced display.

If someone gave the studio display for free, I'd sell it or give it away. It bugs me! LOL!

As I mentioned before, I work in Hollywood in film production. Apple is entrenched for writers and post production at all levels. I work with a lot of Mac savvy folk and the studio display is being laughed at, almost universally. That's saying something because most of these people can afford stuff like this without blinking.

So who's the target audience? An interior designer? Someone who can't be bothered with looking for smarter alternatives? I know a LOT of people who ordered the new Mac Studio, but not a soul bought the display.


Robert
 
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If someone gave the studio display for free, I'd sell it or give it away. It bugs me! LOL!

As I mentioned before, I work in Hollywood in film production. Apple is entrenched for writers and post production at all levels. I work with a lot of Mac savvy folk and the studio display is being laughed at, almost universally. That's saying something because most of these people can afford stuff like this without blinking.

So who's the target audience? An interior designer? Someone who can't be bothered with looking for smarter alternatives? I know a LOT of people who ordered the new Mac Studio, but not a soul bought the display.


Robert
There are plenty of people that want an Apple-branded display and/or a good quality 5K 27” display. The threads on this forum tell you that. The “Owner’s Thread” for the ASD is at 60 pages already. The equivalent thread for the closest competing product (in price and spec) - the LG UltraFine 5K - is at 108 pages but it started in 2016.

Not saying I disagree with some of the criticism of the product, but it’s certainly not true to say that there isn’t a sizeable market for this product at this price.
 
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