I'm genuinely surprised by the negative reviews of the Studio Display

[Unregistered 4U]

Not saying I disagree with some of the criticism of the product, but it’s certainly not true to say that there isn’t a sizeable market for this product at this price.

Maybe the folks that have been Mac users for awhile don’t even realize how much they sound like Windows users that just don’t understand the Mac. The fact that the Mac isn’t for some Windows users to understand IS the point. By the same token, this monitor isn’t for those who don’t understand it.

Some see Apple’s continued success at selling these monitors (and other things they don’t understand) as a sign that an ever increasing number of people don’t care at all about what they care deeply about. Hence, the strong emotional wording.

 

[Lammers]

It's odd isn't it? a Studio display that you as the owner cannot change the mount on and has a non-removable power cord (I mean technically it is removable but it also looks like that amount of force may break the monitor if done more than a few times).

Real odd choices for such a high priced display.

I think it depends how you look at it. It’s certainly true to say that some people care about those two things. I think it’s also very likely true to say that the vast majority of buyers don’t care about either of those things (and Apple evidently believes that too).

What percentage of monitors that ship with removable stands ever have that stand removed during their lifetime? A fraction of a percent I would think. The vast majority likely just stay on their stands on desks their entire lives.

 

[zach-coleman]

I think the non swappable stand is just dumb but I'm completely incapable of understanding why people are so angry about the power cord. I have only ever removed the power cord from my monitors out of fear it would fall out and get lost during moving. I can't imagine a common scenario where it would matter that its fixed. It's a weird design choice, but I find the fact that the Tilt-only model exists at all to be far more of a point against the monitor.

 

[vddobrev]

I think you have a point, but Apple should be careful. I live nicely...poolhouse in LA, sailing yacht, fast cars and so on. I can pretty much buy what I want, so the price of a studio display doesn't bug me.

6 weeks ago I ran out to buy my first EV and it seemed Tesla was the way to go. I test drove a few Tesla's and was about to buy one when I learned about the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6. I test drove both and there was no way in hell I was going to buy the Tesla. The Tesla was a poor car (and value) against the newer EV cars. Even the Ford Mach E was nicer. It wasn't even close! So I bought an EV6 and haven't looked back.

A luxury label isn't worth very much these days. I've owned 5 Mercedes and my Kia and Mazda are nicer cars. Apple is resting a LOT on a reputation for quality that is really mostly smoke and mirrors. They aren't Rolex.

The studio display is a consumer grade product with some very bad ideas and a top tier price for the class. You get the Apple name and maybe that's enough for some buyers. Apple continues to make money, in spite of poor choices, but the reality is that they're actually losing money because the potential isn't being touched upon. They're still selling computers with TINY SSD drives as standard. They try to offer the least for the highest prices. Fanboys defend all of this and that's fine. Apple built that fanbase. But I'm old enough to see through all that. None of this makes their new display "bad" by any measure. It's an excellent product in some respects. But the backlash was totally their own fault. It's an incredibly dumb bit of engineering and pricing in 2022 and nothing, not even the fanboys, can change that.

Robert

I love your thinking and reasoning, and I share all of your points. I also live nicely, huge house in a small town, big lawn, well no yacht as we are inland, but I can rent them. I still have not talked myself into buying an EV, for the lack of charging stations in Bulgaria, but I never considered a Tesla, this is such a poor value. I also have a Mazda CX-5 and I love it, this car has a soul... When I bought it, my friends criticized me for not gettin a Mercedes, but I loved it when I test drove it.

Anyway, I think as we age, we give more thought of what we get for our money, and we more understand the value of products vs a poor value products.

I was about to jump into the ASD as I needed a monitor upgrade from my old 27" 4K Dell, but after I saw the price I was like wait a second, 5499 (local currency) for the same 27" size (albeit 5K), no HDR, no FALD... no way. The I began thinking of getting the Apple XDR 32", but that one is 15000 local currency, and it is an old tech now.

Then I saw these new Dell monitors with the new LG black-IPS tech. I got the 32" for 1900 local currency and I love it. This will get me through until Apple or another company comes up with a 32" 6K with much more dimming zones at a reasonable price, or else I will keep this display until it dies.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I came from a 5K iMac to the 4K Dell monitor. I hated the glossy reflection of the iMac, but it was a good display none the less. Had it not been glossy, it could have been a keeper. Glossy is too distracting, I see myself and all the surroundings, my area is full of windows.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The trouble is that the low-end 5k iMacs set the customer expectation that a 5k screen should cost under $1000.
(Even though the top-end iMacs cost as much as a Studio Max + Studio display).

A 5K monitor has actually been on sale for years. Anyone that saw the price of that and assumed that Apple would charge LESS hasn’t been following Apple for very long.

...and unfortunately they're taking the modern luxury car maker's approach to that - low ball the base model and charge a fortune for "extras". The Studio Display would have been better received but for the $400 extra stand and the non-removable power cord (which just reminds me of the cheap displays you'd get bundled with a cheap beige-box PC system).

The Studio Display doesn’t have to be better received by folks looking for something for cheap or free (again, things that those that have followed Apple for awhile don’t expect). It doesn’t even have to be well received by YouTubers. It just has to be well received and bought by one or two hundred thousand folks a year. That’s a VERY very small number of people that have to buy it for it to be successful. If 10 million people hate it or feel it’s not worth it… it’s of little consequence.

 

[enricoclaudio]

I find fascinating that people is still complaining abut the stand choices for the ASD. Yes, I would have loved an ASD with tilt/height adjustability + VESA mount all together like most mid range 4K monitors but at least we have stand options to chose from. Not to mention that most of these "complainers" wanted an iMac instead which BTW never had neither VESA mount nor height adjustability. Yes, I know the iMac Pro had VESA mount option but you had to pick one option at the moment of purchase, like we do with the ASD.

 

[zach-coleman]

I find fascinating that people is still complaining abut the stand choices for the ASD. Yes, I would have loved an ASD with tilt/height adjustability + VESA mount all together like most mid range 4K monitors but at least we have stand options to chose from. Not to mention that most of these "complainers" wanted an iMac instead which BTW never had neither VESA mount nor height adjustability. Yes, I know the iMac Pro had VESA mount option but you had to pick one option at the moment of purchase, like we do with the ASD.

At least for me I wasn't expecting it, but I hoped for it. I know the iMacs including the 24" are an at purchase configuration, bit it still would have been nice if it could be swapped... even if it was like the XDR where it had a proprietary connector for monitor mounting. Anything to allow your needs to change down the line without having to sell your current and buy a totally new one. I think stand swappability and pro motion would have made this monitor be 100% the monitor for me instead of like 90%. I'm not super concerned about mini-LED honestly.

Also, I know pro motion is basically impossible right now. It's more of something I want, but know I cannot presently have.

 

[CaptRB]

A 5K monitor has actually been on sale for years. Anyone that saw the price of that and assumed that Apple would charge LESS hasn’t been following Apple for very long.

The Studio Display doesn’t have to be better received by folks looking for something for cheap or free (again, things that those that have followed Apple for awhile don’t expect). It doesn’t even have to be well received by YouTubers. It just has to be well received and bought by one or two hundred thousand folks a year. That’s a VERY very small number of people that have to buy it for it to be successful. If 10 million people hate it or feel it’s not worth it… it’s of little consequence.

This is poor business thinking. And I say that as someone who owns Apple stock and has no issue spending money as I please.

In business we call this "Bad movie logic." What it essentially means is that Disney releases a BAD movie, such as Black Widow or Captain Marvel. They know it's bad. They knew the script was poor prior to production. But they know the market will support the movie anyway. They hit the fiscal targets and they move on.

But this is lost revenue because Black Widow will never have the financial legs of better movies. It also causes a bleed-off of viewers and hurts the brand. The ultimate loss of downstream revenue is huge. It's a success in that it made money, and a terrible failure against what it could have done.

Apple does the same thing when they introduce a poor product, or even a mediocre one. Yes, their base will support it and they may hit or exceed their targets initially. But it still hurts the brand and it costs them customers because the brand IS effected. Apple has done this before with phones by refusing to make large display phones and allowing Samsung to grab market share. It's exceedingly stupid. Do they still sell a ton of phones? You bet. Did they lose sales. Yes, and the revue lost is enormous. Apple should not be giving away market share like this, nor should they produce a product with such glaring deficiencies.


Robert

 

[vddobrev]

The last few post of this thread are very interesting. People do not want to accept the fact that the ASD is, in fact, a poor value product.

Yes, it is very common to try and convince yourself and others that your money is well spent when you bought it.

The reality is, that in 2022, any above average display comes with a height, tilt, and swivel stand, that can be removed, so you can use your VESA mount. Not only did Apple not include this as standard, but yet they do charge $400 for it, and they also charge for a standard VESA mount.

That, and in itself, is the turning-off point of this display. Who is the standard stand made for? I am 5'11" you may be 6'3" or 5'5" - the standard stand fits neither of us. This is so basic that there is no point in even discussing it, this is ergonomics. And Apple in their presentations are so caring about the environment, diversity, and all... and diversity means we are all different height, aren't we?

And not to speak of the single input. How many apple users have a laptop and a desktop? It seems none as per Apple, or those that do, will need to unplug and plug the cable every time.

And multi monitor setup? Oh wait, no daisy chaining (unlike the Dell MST technology) because Mac OS does not support MST. So if you needed 3 displays - then you end up using 3 USB-C ports. And also you end up with 3 Web Cameras, and 3 sets of speakers in the 3 displays.

 

[BeatCrazy]

The last few post of this thread are very interesting. People do not want to accept the fact that the ASD is, in fact, a poor value product.

Seems just fine to me. Much better than the $500 4K LG it replaced. As for multiple sources, I use magnetic USB-C connectors. Cheap, easy, works perfect for switching a half-dozen different devices I have to use the Studio Display.

Would it be nice if it was $500 less? Sure, just like if the ice cream I just bought was 40% cheaper. Doesn't mean it's not good, or that it's not a good value (I guess not for you).

 

[vddobrev]

Seems just fine to me. Much better than the $500 4K LG it replaced. As for multiple sources, I use magnetic USB-C connectors. Cheap, easy, works perfect for switching a half-dozen different devices I have to use the Studio Display.

Would it be nice if it was $500 less? Sure, just like if the ice cream I just bought was 40% cheaper. Doesn't mean it's not good, or that it's not a good value (I guess not for you).

Of course! I stated my opinion, you stated yours. It is OK to be different. I like solid posts that are backed up by use cases and examples, like you stated you use a magnetic UCB-C - very cool - to make it work for you.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple should not be giving away market share like this, nor should they produce a product with such glaring deficiencies.

Giving away marketshare in the monitor market? I doubt very much Apple has a goal of becoming a major player in the monitor market.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The last few post of this thread are very interesting. People do not want to accept the fact that the ASD is, in fact, a poor value product.

The ASD is, in fact, a poor value product for a lot of people, perhaps 10’s of millions of people. Maybe even hundreds of millions of people.

The ASD will, in fact, hit it’s sales goals and will be profitable for Apple.

 

[BeatCrazy]

The ASD is, in fact, a poor value product for a lot of people, perhaps 10’s of millions of people. Maybe even hundreds of millions of people.

The ASD will, in fact, hit it’s sales goals and will be profitable for Apple.

It would be a poor value for my wife. I'd never buy one for her, or recommend she buy one for herself, even though she's a daily Mac user. She wouldn't appreciate the color accuracy, PPI, the industrial design, or take full advantage of the ports on the back.

However all of those things above are super important to me. Hence, it's a good value.

 

[CaptRB]

Giving away marketshare in the monitor market? I doubt very much Apple has a goal of becoming a major player in the monitor market.

Well, then I guess....MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Well done Apple! They should have made it VGA and sold it for 2K. Some folks would still buy it.


Robert

 

[vddobrev]

The ASD will, in fact, hit it’s sales goals and will be profitable for Apple.

Let it be! We all want that, don't we? And you know Apples' sales goals how?

 

[CaptRB]

The ASD is, in fact, a poor value product for a lot of people, perhaps 10’s of millions of people. Maybe even hundreds of millions of people.

The ASD will, in fact, hit it’s sales goals and will be profitable for Apple.

And AGAIN, that's not the point. They are still LOSING money and hurting the brand with a product that is glaringly bad for many users. It's dressed like a premium product, but it's really not.

Hurting the brand is exactly why Apple lost control of the smart phone market, something they could have easily had 90% of 49%. I also bailed on the iPhone because Samsung jumped ahead and Apple stood still and watched.


Robert

 

[vddobrev]

It would be a poor value for my wife. I'd never buy one for her, or recommend she buy one for herself, even though she's a daily Mac user. She wouldn't appreciate the color accuracy, PPI, the industrial design, or take full advantage of the ports on the back.

However all of those things above are super important to me. Hence, it's a good value.

Very good, I respect your opinion and I am glad you like it and it serves you well. However, the ports on the back are nothing special - just one input/upstream port, and 3 USB-C ports (that share the bandwidth of that one upstream port). In fact this is quite limiting. Perhaps there should have been another input port so that video signal can be separate from the USB-C hub.

Edit: Just an example, the Dell U3223QE has a separate upstream input via USB-C port, so that the built in USB-C hub functions at max speed. In addition, it's DP 1.4 port supports MST for daisy chaining displays. Unfortunately macOS does not support MST.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Very good, I respect your opinion and I am glad you like it and it serves you well. However, the ports on the back are nothing special - just one input/upstream port, and 3 USB-C ports (that share the bandwidth of that one upstream port). In fact this is quite limiting. Perhaps there should have been another input port so that video signal can be separate from the USB-C hub.

Aside from the lack of inputs, the three 10Gbp/s USB-C ports sharing bandwidth over the Thunderbolt upstream port should not be a problem (example please?).

On the back, I connect both a Logitech 4K Brio, and 2.5Gbps Ethernet adapter (D-Link DUB-E250), with one spare/open port. Even with full bandwidth webcam usage and the full 2.5Gbps (I have 5Gbps fiber) internet, I'm not constrained.

 

[vddobrev]

Aside from the lack of inputs, the three 10Gbp/s USB-C ports sharing bandwidth over the Thunderbolt upstream port should not be a problem (example please?).

On the back, I connect both a Logitech 4K Brio, and 2.5Gbps Ethernet adapter (D-Link DUB-E250), with one spare/open port. Even with full bandwidth webcam usage and the full 2.5Gbps (I have 5Gbps fiber) internet, I'm not constrained.

Sorry, I edited my post with an example, go and re-read it. A good example will be TB storage devices, not webcams or ethernet. Bottom line is your video upstream eats the bandwidth of the single TB3 input port, that is shared with the other 3 ports. Good read is here.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Sorry, I edited my post with an example, go and re-read it. A good example will be TB storage devices, not webcams or ethernet. Bottom line is your video upstream eats the bandwidth of the TB3 port, that is shared with the other 3 ports. Good read is here.

If the speed that TB-specific drives (or other peripherals) require is an essential requirement, you're probably not expecting to hang it off the back of the monitor. Every Apple Mac available today has at least two TB ports, should you require that kind of throughput.

So my question remains, I'm struggling to think of a real-world scenario where this would be an issue. Any Mac laptop you plug into the ASD is going to be powered via the display, so you're always going to have a spare TB port.

 

[vddobrev]

If the speed that TB-specific drives (or other peripherals) require is an essential requirement, you're probably not expecting to hang it off the back of the monitor. Every Apple Mac available today has at least two TB ports, should you require that kind of throughput.

So my question remains, I'm struggling to think of a real-world scenario where this would be an issue. Any Mac laptop you plug into the ASD is going to be powered via the display, so you're always going to have a spare TB port.

The point is not that you cannot connect TB storage to your mac book, you could. But there is nothing more to explain - the ASD is not a true UCB-C hub, because the only upstream port is shared with it's video upstream.

 

[BeatCrazy]

The point is not that you cannot connect TB storage to your mac book, you could. But there is nothing more to explain - the ASD is not a true UCB-C hub, because the only upstream port is shared with it's video upstream.

Considering it has the same functionality as the Pro Display XDR, I’m not sure if you were expecting something different.

 

[vddobrev]

Considering it has the same functionality as the Pro Display XDR, I’m not sure if you were expecting something different.

I was comparing it to a non-Apple monitor with a full bandwidth hub. Why do you revert to Apple only gear?

Edit: and yes, I was expecting more from Apple... not a measly single input!

 

[vddobrev]

@BeatCrazy - you would understand better what I meant by saying that the ASD ports are nothing special by reading the specs of other modern displays, such as the Dell U3223QE connectivity specs:

Connectivity
Interfaces

• HDMI (HDCP 2.2)
• DisplayPort 1.4
• DisplayPort output
• USB-C upstream/DisplayPort 1.4 Alt Mode with Power Delivery (power up to 90W, HDCP 2.2)
• USB-C 3.2 Gen 2 upstream
• USB-C 3.2 Gen 2 downstream (power up to 15W)
• 4 x USB 3.2 Gen 2 downstream
• USB 3.2 Gen 2 downstream with Battery Charging 1.2
• Audio line-out (mini-jack)
• LAN (RJ-45)