Lower than 5k at 27" definitely causes eye strain for me at the resolution and viewing distance I use. Since the text is not sharp in these conditions at less than 5k, I assume my eyes are constantly trying to focus anyway but cannot, leading to eye fatigue. Side by side comparisons with a 4k 27" monitor on my desk show the difference clear as day. If your eyes can't resolve the difference in text between 5K and 4K/2K at your viewing distance this wouldn't affect you.
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I'm genuinely surprised by the negative reviews of the Studio Display
- Thread starter CalMin
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The overall package is perfect for no one. The stand is not height adjustable, I am 5'11", and you may be 6'2" or 5'5". This BASIC ergonomics, and Apple should know better. A cheap $400 monitor has a higher adjustable stand. So the overall package is that there is no package at all. Apple wants to make $400 more from me to get the height adjustable (and yet no swivel) stand. No way on Earth I can allow this.
Perfect for no one? How do you know that? The Studio Display is perfect for me. Each person has different needs. You cannot just say that...
Because it is a fact. A display without a height adjustable stand is perfect for none. Anyone that values ergonomics will know this.
I’d lay down some serious cash that my knowledge of vehicles far surpasses yours. Drive a Kia after 60k and retest it. They’re junk. If quality was your gig, you’d be driving Lexus. Time to read up.
LOL...I owned two Lexus, an M5 and even a Hellcat. I spend serious cash on actual cars and worked with an exporter on exotics. Don't you know what Hyundai and Kia have done with their assembly plants? Their robotic systems are now the most advanced. Do you think Apple was talking to them for fun?
Do you know that Kia took on Won Kyu Kang and Pierre Leclercq?
Why on earth would I keep a car until 60K miles?
Your knowledge about this is badly dated and you're just repeating stuff from years ago...same stuff that people still say about Jeeps while knowing nothing about modern Jeeps. Kia is the #1 most reliable car currently in production. It's not 2012 anymore. Time to catch up.
Robert
Now that I have had mine for a few days I have a few observations.
1. The DPI DOES make a difference. I am a professional photographer and I have had 2 4k monitors and an ultra wide in the past 2 years. Now one of the concerns I has was loosing real estate going from the ultra wide. I can tell you that the retina makes it worth it and I have found ways to get around that.
2. As a photographer, I was a bit skeptical for $1,600 w/out HDR. I can also say that the 600 nits combined with the color accuracy are worth it and I don't regret it at all.
3. Sound. True, you can get better sound from other means, but for what comes with this display it far exceeds my expectation/need.
4. For all the naysayers, yes I would love to have a 5k (or higher), with true HDR, 120hz, and all the other bells and whistles. But if you actually LOOK at the market for a hiDPI 5k monitor...this display is a great value and choice. There is nothing else in the market like it because those that "need/want" it are a niche market.
Hope this helps somebody in deciding. I am absolutely content with my purchase and it performs very well for my needs.
1. The DPI DOES make a difference. I am a professional photographer and I have had 2 4k monitors and an ultra wide in the past 2 years. Now one of the concerns I has was loosing real estate going from the ultra wide. I can tell you that the retina makes it worth it and I have found ways to get around that.
2. As a photographer, I was a bit skeptical for $1,600 w/out HDR. I can also say that the 600 nits combined with the color accuracy are worth it and I don't regret it at all.
3. Sound. True, you can get better sound from other means, but for what comes with this display it far exceeds my expectation/need.
4. For all the naysayers, yes I would love to have a 5k (or higher), with true HDR, 120hz, and all the other bells and whistles. But if you actually LOOK at the market for a hiDPI 5k monitor...this display is a great value and choice. There is nothing else in the market like it because those that "need/want" it are a niche market.
Hope this helps somebody in deciding. I am absolutely content with my purchase and it performs very well for my needs.
My criticisms of the studio display:
1.) Nearly all competitors offer native 10-bit panels at this price point
2.) Integrated webcam quality sucks, and no Face ID to boot -- also no way to turn it off, not even a privacy slider
3.) Only one single video input, again unheard of at this price point with competitors -- if you want to use it with multiple devices you're going to have to manually pull out the cable and switch it every single time
4.) semi-fixed Power cable design is just plain dumb, could have easily used MagSafe with an external power supply -- and they also would not have needed to put fans inside of the case if they did it this way...there would be no components inside the case of the monitor that would need active cooling with an external MagSafe connected power brick...I get it, the fans are not that loud (at least normally), but NO FANS would certainly have been much better, especially for people who require low noise environments.
5.) Competitors include better stands with tilt / swivel and height adjust for free
6.) The least they could have done given the asking price was upgraded the panel to 120Hz with ProMotion -- even without real HDR, that would've been a MUCH better deal / value.
I could go on...lol.
TL;dr I see the studio display as a really bad value and an even worse investment, especially at a time when IPS panels without local dimming are ancient technology and better display tech like QD-OLED is going to make this thing look like a dinosaur in no time at all.
The time to release this thing was 2-3 years ago, maybe then it would've been a better value / investment.
1.) Nearly all competitors offer native 10-bit panels at this price point
2.) Integrated webcam quality sucks, and no Face ID to boot -- also no way to turn it off, not even a privacy slider
3.) Only one single video input, again unheard of at this price point with competitors -- if you want to use it with multiple devices you're going to have to manually pull out the cable and switch it every single time
4.) semi-fixed Power cable design is just plain dumb, could have easily used MagSafe with an external power supply -- and they also would not have needed to put fans inside of the case if they did it this way...there would be no components inside the case of the monitor that would need active cooling with an external MagSafe connected power brick...I get it, the fans are not that loud (at least normally), but NO FANS would certainly have been much better, especially for people who require low noise environments.
5.) Competitors include better stands with tilt / swivel and height adjust for free
6.) The least they could have done given the asking price was upgraded the panel to 120Hz with ProMotion -- even without real HDR, that would've been a MUCH better deal / value.
I could go on...lol.
TL;dr I see the studio display as a really bad value and an even worse investment, especially at a time when IPS panels without local dimming are ancient technology and better display tech like QD-OLED is going to make this thing look like a dinosaur in no time at all.
The time to release this thing was 2-3 years ago, maybe then it would've been a better value / investment.
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I'll give you a few, but c'mon man.
1. Show me where anyone would see the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit. It's like the difference between a crappy 8K display and a 4K OLED. Anyone actually watching real content would prefer the OLED.
2. Put a piece of tape over it? I'll give you half a point here, because the 2017 iMac Pro had a nice webcam.
3. Nope, you shouldn't expect anything else. Especially considering the Pro Display XDR, and non-standard 5K resolution. Apple can't be having folks trying to plug their Chromebooks into it.
4. No one needs to remove the power cable. You put it on your desk and it never moves. Less external bricks the better, even my non-techie wife knows this.
5. OK, you're right here.
6. Ain't no technology supporting 120Hz at 5K. How you going to get that to the display? Thunderbolt 4? Doubtful. What Mac could even drive this via existing video output? None.
1. Displays 1billion colors...I thought that was 10bit, but I could be mistaken. I do know that my Nikon RAW files look sharp and accurate to my studio prints. I never got that from my other monitors.
2. I don't use the webcam, so I can't comment on that.
3. As a professional photographer, I only have one computer so my setup is complete. Instant on, perfect clarity, perfect color accuracy...winning for me.
4. I really don't get the hate for the power. I don't plan on moving my monitor...and if I do, I would have to unplug it anyway. Conversely, I have had a "loose" cable fall off the back of a monitor before. Didn't really impact me accept the 3 seconds it took to plug it back in (cat was an ******).
5. Yup, I got nothing here. This is just a poor design decision. I personally don't need to have the up/down movement...but for the price point should have the option.
But again. I offer, find a current 5k Hidpi display for near this price point....interesting to see what you find. Cause there isn't anything.
"1. Show me where anyone would see the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit."
Ya'll need to do some research on display tech.
Firstly, there's a HUGE difference between 8-bit and 10-bit when it comes to anything with a gradient in it, say videos or pictures of the sky. Google "color banding" and you'll see what I mean.
The studio display uses a native 8-bit panel, and employs something called FRC to trick you into thinking it's actually 10-bit when it isn't. FRC stands for frame rate control... it's actually a neat trick that involves flickering the colors and using similar / adjacent colors with gradients, but it's not comparable to a native 10-bit panel for anyone doing legit color critical work...which is why virtually all other pro grade color critical monitors in this price range use native 10-bit panels.
Re: advertising > 1 billion color support -- this is deceptive and I don't like it, however Apple are not unique in this regard. Some other manufacturers do accurately advertise their monitors as "10-bit (8-bit FRC)" but some don't; so I can’t nail Apple hard on this one, BUT…
The Pro Display XDR uses a real native 10-bit panel, in contrast — and it’s still kind of lame for Apple to basically advertise them as having the same color capabilities when they don’t
Lastly, I’m not trying to hate on anyone who has one of these and likes it. You don’t have to justify your purchase to me or anyone else. If it works for you, awesome.
Ya'll need to do some research on display tech.
Firstly, there's a HUGE difference between 8-bit and 10-bit when it comes to anything with a gradient in it, say videos or pictures of the sky. Google "color banding" and you'll see what I mean.
The studio display uses a native 8-bit panel, and employs something called FRC to trick you into thinking it's actually 10-bit when it isn't. FRC stands for frame rate control... it's actually a neat trick that involves flickering the colors and using similar / adjacent colors with gradients, but it's not comparable to a native 10-bit panel for anyone doing legit color critical work...which is why virtually all other pro grade color critical monitors in this price range use native 10-bit panels.
Re: advertising > 1 billion color support -- this is deceptive and I don't like it, however Apple are not unique in this regard. Some other manufacturers do accurately advertise their monitors as "10-bit (8-bit FRC)" but some don't; so I can’t nail Apple hard on this one, BUT…
The Pro Display XDR uses a real native 10-bit panel, in contrast — and it’s still kind of lame for Apple to basically advertise them as having the same color capabilities when they don’t
Lastly, I’m not trying to hate on anyone who has one of these and likes it. You don’t have to justify your purchase to me or anyone else. If it works for you, awesome.
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Yes, but in REAL WORLD use, I have now done 3 shoots/proofs/edits/prints and my clients were blown away. The large display WITH color accuracy outweighs any behind the scene "trickery" going on. I only make money when my workflow is efficient, and my clients are happy. And so far the studio display hits all the marks. Again, if its NOT for you, then great....go buy another monitor that suits your needs. You still haven't found one that has any specs close to this and near the price.
Also to your point...unless you are doing Hollywood editing, its overkill or overprice
10-Bit vs. 8-Bit + FRC: Monitor Panel Difference
Monitor panel bit color depth may seem confusing, but this article will help simplify the pro's and con's of 10-bit vs 8-bit + Frame Rate Control (FRC).
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Again, the #1 most reliable car is currently Kia. Not only do they experience the fewest critical issues, they also now score in the top #3 under warranty.
Critical issues refers to serious problems, such as transmission failures. Lexus and Mercedes have had long runs of tranny issues. My AMG had a total transmission failure and my Lexus was in the shop more than any car that I owned, not to mention the 9 car fleet we had for a while, which needed more service than our previous Nissans. Lexus scores well, but most people aren't aware of how "issues" are counted. Kia has more glass fitment issues and Lexus has leaking transfer cases. Take your pick.
Hyundai and Kia are basically in the same space that Honda and Toyota were in the early 90's. But the difference is that they've gone all-out with their design team. The former head of BMW's M team took over on the EV6 GT project. It's a Tesla killer and I have the GT Line in my garage until my GT is delivered.
Again, your knowledge of these companies is seriously dated and Ford's Mach E is a terrific entry....and American...as is the C8 Vette, which I'll be adding soon! I don't care about brands and labels, but I do want quality and performance.
Robert
Though I never really carefully looked....
Today I pulled up text using Final Draft and Pages on the 5K Mac screen and the same text on my 3 year old 27" 4K Dell.
Blown up to 200% they were BOTH ultra sharp. Just to make the point, I enlarged to 300% in Final Draft on the Dell and the text was every pit as crisp as the 5K screen at 200%! This was with me much closer than I'd normally be. I guess I should have pulled out a loupe, but there was ZERO practical difference in text and certainly nothing that would cause fatigue on either display, unless the shiny glare prone screen of the Mac became an issue.
Speaking to my literary manager, himself a former Apple genius, I asked him about this. Could there be a visible difference in text between 4K and 5K? His answer was simple: Only if the software was better suited to 5K in some way and deficient at 4K. Otherwise it would not be detectable to the human eye.
And looking at both monitors...he's 100% correct. After looking at text on the ultra wide Viewsonic, I again saw nothing but super-sharp text. Among my other skill-sets, I've been a pro photographer for over 30 years. I think I know what sharp is! LOL
Robert
Today I pulled up text using Final Draft and Pages on the 5K Mac screen and the same text on my 3 year old 27" 4K Dell.
Blown up to 200% they were BOTH ultra sharp. Just to make the point, I enlarged to 300% in Final Draft on the Dell and the text was every pit as crisp as the 5K screen at 200%! This was with me much closer than I'd normally be. I guess I should have pulled out a loupe, but there was ZERO practical difference in text and certainly nothing that would cause fatigue on either display, unless the shiny glare prone screen of the Mac became an issue.
Speaking to my literary manager, himself a former Apple genius, I asked him about this. Could there be a visible difference in text between 4K and 5K? His answer was simple: Only if the software was better suited to 5K in some way and deficient at 4K. Otherwise it would not be detectable to the human eye.
And looking at both monitors...he's 100% correct. After looking at text on the ultra wide Viewsonic, I again saw nothing but super-sharp text. Among my other skill-sets, I've been a pro photographer for over 30 years. I think I know what sharp is! LOL
Robert
That in no way deals with the differences between 8bit and 10bit
How so? I have changed nothing in my workflow, yet all 3 new clients have been amazed by the proofing on the display. Also, for anyone that is caught up on the 8bit/10bit...do YOUR research. The MacBook pro's use the same technology (FRC)
The Studio Display is not advertised or marketed as a "pro grade color monitor". So there should be no expectation that it uses a 10-bit panel.
If you think the C8 is quality, then it makes sense that I not waste any more of my life continuing this conversation. Good luck with your Kias.
The VESA mount option is PERFECT for me!! The ASDs are the best displays I have ever owned, better than any 4K HDR monitor I had and better than my iMac 5K Retina display. So yes, there is a bunch of people that find the ASD perfect, even with the crappy camera, the not so good speakers and the high price...
Thank you. Yes - this is my experience too.
There's a huge difference between those who are writing off the display based on specs and those who are using it. I bought it with half a mind to return. It is expensive and there's no getting around that. I actually had a Dell on order with a plan to keep the one that looked best.
But... then Dell didn't arrive (Dell moved it a couple of months) and after a few days of using the ASD, I found it really to be a wonderful product. I just don't know why it is getting blasted by those who haven't used it. I regretted my pre-order initially because of it.
In actual use this is a fantastic looking monitor. It's pin sharp, evenly lit, and has excellent color. It's not 'pro' in any of the categories it's in, but as a top quality consumer grade monitor which integrates seamlessly with MacOS, this thing has no equal.
It is expensive, but I'm over the cost of the ASD now that the credit card bill has arrived and was paid in full. I love the look, the sound, the image quality and the MacOS touches. As I keep saying in this thread - just because it is expensive, doesn't make it poor subjective value. Objectively, there are other cheaper displays that might represent better to value to others, but to me, I have absolutely no regrets with what I paid. It is worth every penny - and I work hard for my money.
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How many Lambo's have you driven and serviced. My friend tracks C8's with and without mods. They are very tough compared to most fragile exotics. How many AMG GT's have you taken apart? How about AM's or GTR's?
Honestly, you're just a brand-fan who knows nothing about cars and still believes that there's some magic dust Lexus and Mercedes sprinkles on their cars! Building standards are controlled by robots, which are a LOT more reliable than my hand built AMG V8. All that said, ICE cars are finished and even Mercedes will end production by 2030.
I live in a multi million dollar LA home because I actually know the facts about everything I spend money on, which is why my Kia stock can buy me a 2nd cruising sailboat. Seriously, stop talking. Reading magazines and watching YouTube reviews doesn't make you a car guru.
Have fun with your 2009 Altima!
Robert
You can't tell the difference viewing text on a 110 ppi monitor (Viewsonic) and a 220 ppi monitor (ASD, iMac 5K)? That should be a red flag something's up. You're effectively arguing there's no difference viewing text on retina and non-retina screens, but I don't think you'd find many people who couldn't see an obvious difference when the first retina iPhone came out, or the retina MacBook Pros, compared to their previous non-retina screens.
If you think about your technique of blowing up the text by 200-300% when comparing each monitor, and what that does to the number of pixels being used to render each character of text, I think it'll make sense. If you reduce the text instead, you should find a point where the lower PPI screen gets blurry while the higher PPI screen stays sharp. That's where the eye fatigue starts.
Again, I’m not trying to rain on your parade here. If it works for you, that’s awesome.Yes, but in REAL WORLD use, I have now done 3 shoots/proofs/edits/prints and my clients were blown away. The large display WITH color accuracy outweighs any behind the scene "trickery" going on. I only make money when my workflow is efficient, and my clients are happy. And so far the studio display hits all the marks. Again, if its NOT for you, then great....go buy another monitor that suits your needs. You still haven't found one that has any specs close to this and near the price.
Also to your point...unless you are doing Hollywood editing, its overkill or overprice
10-Bit vs. 8-Bit + FRC: Monitor Panel Difference
Monitor panel bit color depth may seem confusing, but this article will help simplify the pro's and con's of 10-bit vs 8-bit + Frame Rate Control (FRC).www.benq.com
But you can get higher quality native 10-bit panels with competitor products, that have even more accurate colors, and better uniformity, with true uniformity compensation and uniformity calibration even, for even less money…just not at 5K res.