I'm StephenCampbell's Wife

[Scepticalscribe]

I don't know what to say, really.

But there are one or two points that I really think ought to be raised - and not necessarily answered here - this is not really the right forum for it - but for you to consider answering internally, @StephenCampbell.

You have written not just here - but in a far earlier thread - of how you don't feel - or don't think you feel - "passion, love, adoration" for the lady you married. That, however, is not what gives me the greatest cause - or pause - for concern.

What bothers me far more is that you admit you don't feel 'affection', and I never heard you even concede that you actually liked the wonderful woman you married.

Above all, it was clear you don't - or didn't - respect her.

Oddly enough, to me, affection, liking and respect are far more important than passion as a firm basis for an enduring relationship. And restricting your understanding of the noun 'love' to the romantic, or sexual, version, is so extraordinarily limiting because it prevents you from realising - or recognising - many other variants. Love can take many forms.

In truth, passion will often pass; however, unless you actually also like and respect the person you have passion for, the relationship will not last.

A further observation: Not for the first time, @GrumpyMom has posted wise, warm words, full of brilliant and genuinely generous, yet grounded but positive and uplifting advice. Heed it, if you can.

 

[997440]

Mr. and Mrs. Campbell,

The following question is a rhetorical one just for your consideration only; I'm not seeking an answer. Is it possible that the intense focus here and elsewhere has influenced you both to become either specific or mixed archetypes? When one is troubled or anxious about their personal relationships, or their own place in the world, the desire to make the feelings go away can override actual personal improvement. A search for understanding will find competing ideas on what are the best ways forward, even from what is perceived to be authoritative sources. "I like/dislike what that person(s) says, don't completely understand it, but it feels right/wrong. Time to pick something from someone(s) and move on." Be cautious of letting yourself be filled externally rather than listening and then ultimately thinking for yourself. If THE ANSWERS were readily available and easily obtainable, why are there so many dysfunctional people around? Improvement doesn't happen overnight; impatience is its enemy.

Two people simultaneously trying to grow their own self, and their relationship, can inadvertently overly stress the minutiae of the discovery process and lose sight of the destination. What's said (or its interpretation) today in the process is just an exploration within the process, not a conclusion. You crawl before you walk. And while you're crawling, it's good to giggle a bit and maybe stop and have some ice cream.

I wish you both well. If you develop (or continue to have) negative feelings toward each other, or your own self, do your very best to not let them damage your connected roles as Mother and Father. Don't "pay it forward". It's very hard, but doable.

 

[5105973]

This is exactly what my therapist as well as a big part of me is saying. I know she's amazing. The thing is that no matter how amazing someone is, if one does not feel deep romantic love, affection, adoration, etc, for that person, it is a mistake to propose to them. I'm still trying to figure out whether that was really the case with me or whether I just had relationship OCD and made the choice to ignore it. As my therapist points out, I did choose to marry her, and as I know for myself, that is no small thing. Having found someone that I could feel comfortable and confident marrying, on Any level, is huge. I did think it through a lot before proposing, and I was in full recognition of everything you say about how wonderful she is.

But it happens sometimes in life that a really wonderful person really wants to be with someone, and throws themselves in their arms, and the other person says "I'm sorry, I don't feel that way about you, I would love to be friends though." What if that was simply what I would have said if I were honest with myself and not afraid of breaking her heart? There is such a thing as unrequited love, I'm aware that sometimes someone just doesn't feel that way about someone regardless of how wonderful they are or how much they want to be with them.

I'm still trying to sort this all out.

There were several not insignificant reasons to see her as not the best match for me, and those reasons still exist. They say nothing bad about her, just about our compatibility. I've always felt that a more "normal" guy would have just been overjoyed to have her and never have any of these doubts or hesitations. But as I said, sometimes someone just says "I'm sorry, I'd love to be friends."

Of course a large part of me agrees with everything you say. I followed your train of thought completely when I forcibly pushed myself past all my hesitations and proposed to her, being very clear on how wonderful and rare she is in so many ways.

But fear was a big component. Fear of never being able to find someone who would feel that way about me who I would also be absolutely crazy about. At the time I asked my mom what she thought and she supported the idea of proposing, and I still didn't truly, deeply feel that I adore her or am in love with her in the way I should be before proposing marriage. I did it because I told myself I was crazy for not feeling that, because of how great she is. But people generally agree that trying to bend and distort one's feelings out of fear that this is one's only shot at marriage, is not a good idea.

The fact is there are other women out there who are wonderful. And quite possibly after dating one of them for a few months, I could find myself honestly, joyfully, and with an authentic smile on my face and no voice in my head saying "You're lying to yourself," say "I'm completely in love with her, she makes me so happy, I can't wait to see her again, I love just being with her," etc. People understand that it's hard to find love, but they also understand that one should not just get married to the first person who gives them their heart, if that's not who they feel truly happy marrying.

I agreed with you. I proposed to her because I said to myself "This couldn't be a mistake. She's so wonderful."

And in all likelihood THAT voice that drove me that way is my authentic, clear self. This is what I'm trying to figure out. I have told MrsCampbell that I'm still sorting things out and that I would like to think of this as just time apart.

As I mentioned above, even with my mom and brother giving me the encouragement that I asked them for, to help me quell the voice that was telling me that she's just not right for me regardless of how wonderful she is, I still continued to have doubts and voices in my head saying it isn't right. Even MrsCampbell getting along really well with my mom and asking her "How many grandchildren do you want?" did not quell my feeling that I just don't feel deep romantic love, passion, and adoration for her.

My point is that my mom plays a much smaller role in this than you think.

I don't really know what else to say. I agree with you. I proposed to her because of how wonderful she is. And yet if I had told anyone my truly honest thoughts and feelings at the time, they would have said I'm moving into it out of fear and for all the wrong reasons, that feelings are what they are, and that you can't force yourself to feel something you don't just because you recognize how easy it would be and how happy you would be IF you felt that way.

I have both a therapist and a colleague telling me that there were plenty of months where I felt no hesitations or doubts about being with her, and felt really stable and happy, and that is true, I think. If that's the case, they say, those could easily be the More authentic feelings, and the other stuff is the relationship OCD.

Anyways, I'll wrap up for now.

Well said. This is all extremely difficult and painful for you both. It's good that you're putting it all out there and trying to figure it out.

When it comes to relationships I've seen all kinds of crazy situations sort themselves out. I've seen all kinds of stable situations destabilize. When it comes to people and relationships I've learned to expect the unexpected. You just never know.

I can say I've learned over time that the next thing around the corner isn't going to intrinsically be better just because it's the next thing around the corner. It's going to be better because with each step forward in my life I am going to be better. I'm the secret ingredient in my own happiness.

There is no magic "right friend" or "right partner" that will make it all work out for me. There is nobody who can make me happy. Not even all these amazing children in my life who I keep talking about can do that. They can be a part of my happiness but they can't make me happy.

Lol, yes, I've learned the hard way that people can make me miserable. But sadly it doesn't seem to work in reverse. People can't make me happy.

There's just me and how I choose to act and react and it's in those actions and reactions that I generate my own contentment and my happiness. I get better and better at doing just that as I go along.

I guess I've learned that I can choose to be happy. It's by savoring every moment with the people who share my life. I glory in being a part of their triumphs and even their failures.

I live in constant gratitude for the sacrifices made by my family so I could live in this country free of the war and poverty that killed so many of my family. I live in gratitude for the people in my family and my husband's family who survived the Great Depression and passed along their wisdom and took steps to ensure we would have a better chance at comfort and security than they had.

I live taking nothing for granted and live with so much gratitude in my heart. And that is what makes me happy. And the people in my life are there to share this feeling with. They don't have to be anything to me or do anything for me other than be their genuine selves. And if they have dysfunction they need to address it, of course, to curb the propensity to cause hurt. But I don't look to them to be the source of my happiness. That truly does come from within.

I think your therapy and the process of learning from life in general will be of great service to you in the days ahead. Be well.
[doublepost=1467215556][/doublepost]

I don't know what to say, really.

But there are one or two points that I really think ought to be raised - and not necessarily answered here - this is not really the right forum for it - but for you to consider answering internally, @StephenCampbell.

You have written not just here - but in a far earlier thread - of how you don't feel - or don't think you feel - "passion, love, adoration" for the lady you married. That, however, is not what gives me the greatest cause - or pause - for concern.

What bothers me far more is that you admit you don't feel 'affection', and I never heard you even concede that you actually liked the wonderful woman you married.

Above all, it was clear you don't - or didn't - respect her.

Oddly enough, to me, affection, liking and respect are far more important than passion as a firm basis for an enduring relationship. And restricting your understanding of the noun 'love' to the romantic, or sexual, version, is so extraordinarily limiting because it prevents you from realising - or recognising - many other variants. Love can take many forms.

In truth, passion will often pass; however, unless you actually also like and respect the person you have passion for, the relationship will not last.

A further observation: Not for the first time, @GrumpyMom has posted wise, warm words, full of brilliant and genuinely generous, yet grounded but positive and uplifting advice. Heed it, if you can.

I hate that the forum is likely to blend this reply into my other post and make a long wall of text unless someone posts before I do. But I just had to say that is so perfect. I wanted to make the same observation about how Stephen seems to look at love but the words just wouldn't come to me. I tried and gave up that effort. But spot on!

I was always aware of the possibility I would not survive childbirth due to a heart condition I had at the time, so I wrote an essay to my unborn baby about what I think makes for a partner whom one can have an enduring love with. I didn't want him or her falling for the superficial traits that our pop culture and heck, even classical literature trains us to value. I wanted more substance for my child than that.

I brought it down to one single trait above all others: character.

I explained why his good character was such a huge part of how I chose my husband and how it kept us together when our immaturity sometimes threatened to drive a wedge between us. Character can't be faked for very long. It can't even be obscured by lesser flaws for very long. My husband had a lot of personality flaws he needed to mature out of but they drove me up a wall until he did. His good character kept me in there while we both matured.

It's not to be confused with charm or charisma or sex appeal. It's a trait that reveals itself in times of hardship and troubles--those situations when the going gets tough and the tough get going. It's what keeps a man or a woman by your side when that "in sickness or in health part of the vows" gets a workout when you fall ill.

I think Mrs. Campbell has demonstrated remarkable character in her conduct on this forum thus far. But only Stephen can know the reality of the situation.

 

[MrsCampbell]

Thank you for everyone's kind comments and for continuing to give "Mr Campbell" and I support.

All that said... "Mr Campbell," you keep going back and forth in your comments here as well as with text messages, etc. "I love you, I miss you" vs "I can't fathom being bound to you for the rest of my life!"

It's incredibly painful for me, especially when you speak of how you never had affection or love for me. All of my feelings for you were completely authentic and I feel absolutely gutted knowing my entire marriage was a lie.

I think it's best if I excuse myself from the thread. Please feel free to continue to use this thread for advice and support if you'd like, although I think it best to address those feelings with your counselors.

Thanks again for everyone's support. Best of luck to all.

 

[Clix Pix]

Maybe at this point it would be advisable for the mods to lock the thread since the OP is bowing out..... IMHO if "StephenCampbell" wants more advice and support, he really should be working closely with his therapists on that in real time, rather than posting on a very public internet forum.

 

[5105973]

Maybe at this point it would be advisable for the mods to lock the thread since the OP is bowing out..... IMHO if "StephenCampbell" wants more advice and support, he really should be working closely with his therapists on that in real time, rather than posting on a very public internet forum.

I don't want the thread to be locked just yet so we can get a chance to say our goodbyes. Which I will do now.

Good luck to you Stephen and to your wife and child. I'll be thinking of you all and wishing you nothing but the best. I wish every blessing to your daughter. Good bye. I hope to see you on the "gadgety" parts of the forum sometime.
[doublepost=1467223256][/doublepost]Goodbye to all the people I befriended on the two threads, as well. It was an enriching experience reading your posts. I'll see you all around the rest of the forum, too.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well, @MrsCampbell has taken her leave for now, but, unless she asked for the thread to be locked, I would not preempt - or anticipate - that decision.

To @Jayderek: I have seen several earlier threads over the past three years started by @StephenCampbell; I believe it to be genuine - if extraordinary. And, no, reddit is a place with some toxic rabbit holes; not to be recommended.

I will take the opportunity of echoing @GrumpyMom's courteous and gracious words wishing both @MrsCampbell and MissCampbell every good wish in their shared future (and once again thanking her for sharing the accumulated wisdom of her lived life experiences in such a generous and gracious manner).

A final thought for both @StephenCampbell and @MrsCampbell: This is especially relevant in light of the what @MrsCampbell has stated that she does not want her daughter influenced by, and equally relevant given @StephenCampbell's marked preference for what he has termed 'traditional' arrangements in marriage:

And here, I am quoting from an earlier post from @MrsCampbell when she wrote:

"and the role he expects a wife to play. I do not want my daughter believing that is the sort of relationship she should have with her future partner, if she chooses to marry".

Around a quarter of a century ago I read a newspaper article which discussed the topic of a number of women who had each become exceptionally successful in various walks of life. The article attempted to explore what common factors - if any - existed - and attempted to examine matters such as social class, income, education, profession, age, location (rural/urban), whether married or not, - and nature of the marriage - whether a mother or not, single, gay, what are called 'life chances', - influenced how the lives of these women turned out.

To their astonishment, they concluded that the single factor that most influenced each of these women was the unconditional love and sustained support of a male figure, a father who believed unreservedly in them. This meant that they grew up not needing conditional male attention and validation, - as they already had the armoured strength conferred by unconditional male love and support- and they thus grew to have confidence in themselves as women facing into a male world.

At the time, I told this as something I thought of interest, worth passing on, over a few glasses of wine, to a young male friend of mine, not long married, and himself the father of two very young daughters.

Years later, his marriage ended quite acrimoniously, and he ended up with custody of both of his then teenaged daughters, which was their wish. Over yet another glass of wine, - some years later again, to my astonishment, - he reminded me of what I had said to him around twenty years earlier, and said that it had burned into his mind, confirming him in his desire to be a source of positive male love, and rock solid support for his two daughters.

He returned to university as a 'mature student', at a time when both his daughters were undergraduates, and all three enjoyed university as adults together (they were in different years). To the delight of all three, (mainly because he worked far harder than they did) his grades surpassed theirs.

Good luck.

 

[yaxomoxay]

In truth, passion will often pass; however, unless you actually also like and respect the person you have passion for, the relationship will not last.

My God, you and I are probably on the opposite spectrum of the political/social world, but this was pure gold, pure perfection. This is the alchemical albedo of marriage counseling.

 

[Hellhammer]

MOD NOTE

This thread, and its predecessor, themselves are not against the rules. We don't have any preset policies for threads involving lots of personal and sensitive information, other than that we will delete the thread in full upon request to protect members' privacy. I.e. if Mr. or Mrs. Campbell asks the thread(s) to be deleted, we will comply with the request.

After all, everyone posting here, including Mr. and Mrs. Campbell, are doing so voluntarily, so we don't have a reason to intervene other than to moderate individual posts that may be against the rules.

 

[Possumgal]

I'm impressed with all the well-thought-out advice that I've read on these two threads, and the caring which prompted them. But most of all, I'm very impressed with Mrs. Campbell. I don't know many people who, having gone through a stressful marriage for months, and then seeing it all displayed on the internet (undoubtedly with parts that made her blood boil), could have responded as graciously as she. I'm sure her daughter will grow up to be a fine human being with her mother as a model. I salute you, Madam.

 

[rocknblogger]

I've stayed out of this mess but I've read the threads. It's quite clear to me that it was always about @StephenCampbell. He is self centered, egotistical, and narcissistic. The entire point of his posts and the threads was to make himself the center of attention. To make himself feel better. That is all it was ever about.

There's no point trying to give him any advice as I can assure you it will fall on deaf ears.

I pray for the little girl as she is the biggest victim in this whole sordid mess. @MrsCampbell i wish you the best.

Riddle me this: You are stating that you wish to be involved with your child less than your earlier thread had given us cause to believe that you wished for your mother to be involved?

And you put your wife through the wringer when you were asking for a degree of access to your child for your mother, that you are not prepared to wish to have, or to seek for yourself? Are you serious?

Now, I well remember your earlier threads, and I believe that they gave context to your subsequent ones.



That, unfortunately, was very evident from your earlier threads and posts.

I seem to recall mentioning - in a few different posts - that never once, not once, was there a warm, affectionate word - a word of love, warmth, delight, affection, - let alone respect - written about your wife in your posts.

Or, for that matter, - an equally telling omission - your daughter. You never once wrote warmly of her, not once.

You never gave a sense that you saw either of them as other than adornments to your life, or possessions in your life.



No. I suspect that you have always been in love with your mother.

You, and your parents, all made abundantly made clear your monstrous lack of respect towards your wife.

And, honestly, seeking a 'stepford wife' even as a substitute is such an appalling - and twisted - thing to want to do to another human being - it is to wilfully enter into a relationship where you deny their humanity, and abrogate yourself from the responsibility of having to respect - or even acknowledge - their views or feelings.

This is an appalling admission.

And, one other thing @StephenCampbell - apart from your narcissistic self-absorption - was the utter lack of generosity, - and I am not just talking about financial generosity - but human support and empathy, taking delight and pleasure and pride in the achievements and talents of the other - evident in your posts.

Again, good luck to your wife and child.

 

[Khalanad75]

MOD NOTE

This thread, and its predecessor, themselves are not against the rules. We don't have any preset policies for threads involving lots of personal and sensitive information, other than that we will delete the thread in full upon request to protect members' privacy. I.e. if Mr. or Mrs. Campbell asks the thread(s) to be deleted, we will comply with the request.

After all, everyone posting here, including Mr. and Mrs. Campbell, are doing so voluntarily, so we don't have a reason to intervene other than to moderate individual posts that may be against the rules.

Thank you for this and for clearing it up.

Being able to get help from total strangers can honestly help sometimes. It's good to be able to get input from people who are not attached to any side of a problem and on a public forum you can reach people who have had all kinds of life experiences that if you truly listen to the advice given, can help you grow and fix a problem.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Personally, at this point I think @StephenCampbell and @MrsCampbell should be discussin these issues with professionals. I was much involved in the previous thread, but it is my belief from what I've seen Stephen requires a substantial amount of work to overcome the the issues he is dealing with. Online conversation is insufficient to take the place of a therapist. It's nothing personal against Steve.

I wish both Campbell's the best.

 

[StephenCampbell]

I would like to clarify again, as it seems to have fallen on deaf ears, that it's possible that the root problem here was that I proposed to MrsCampbell based on her love for me, even though I lacked the appropriate feelings for her. I was afraid no one else would ever feel about me the way she did, and so I went into marriage with great reluctance and hesitation. It was obviously really stupid. I am not a bad person. I was just cowardly and too afraid to break up with her.

I want us to be on friendly terms and a good parenting team no matter what happens going forward.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I would like to clarify again, as it seems to have fallen on deaf ears, that it's possible that the root problem here was that I proposed to MrsCampbell based on her love for me, even though I lacked the appropriate feelings for her. I was afraid no one else would ever feel about me the way she did, and so I went into marriage with great reluctance and hesitation. It was obviously really stupid. I am not a bad person. I was just cowardly and too afraid to break up with her.

I want us to be on friendly terms and a good parenting team no matter what happens going forward.

Actually, no, I beg to differ: I will contend that the problem goes far deeper than that, and this is quite apart from your separate issues with your parents. For what it is worth, my ears are not deaf at all, apart from the occasional problems with ear-glue I seem to recall I suffered from as a child.

It is not just that you married a lovely young woman, and fathered a child with her, when you knew you "lacked the appropriate feelings for her".

Re-read that sentence: And think about it.

And think, too, about why you have chosen to write it in a thread your soon-to-be-ex-wife started: You, yourself, have chosen to start many threads where you have written about yourself and your fascination with - and utter and endless absorption with - your inner life at extraordinary length, and yet, your reserve your coldest and most hurtful - and least generous and gracious - remarks for a thread your wife started.

Think about that. Think about what you have said and why you have said it.

And, while you are at it, you might care to ask yourself why you would wish to try to take control of a thread your wife started, when you have been spilling here and writing at length about your marriage, your parents, and yourself on these fora for months, - actually, recalling earlier threads, for years - now.

The problem is not that you did this, - marrying someone without returning or reciprocating their feelings - some relationships are asymmetrical - but that you did this, and still failed to treat her with basic respect. You never showed that you respected her, her feelings, thoughts, or - above all - her clearly stated boundaries.

And your treatment of her on this thread - insisting that she amend a post she had made giving her stated reasons for quitting the marriage (has she a similar right?) - show that your controlling and narcissistic tendencies as still pretty intact and fully functioning.

Lacking 'appropriate feelings' is one thing: Controlling, disrespectful behaviour towards someone who shows love to you is quite another.

The problem is that in every thread, every single little thing is about you, and you contrive to return the conversation to you, your thoughts, your feelings, your lack of feelings.

My sense is that you wished to be married - to have the sense of 'completion' as a functioning adult that marriage afforded you, you wanted the 'archetype' of marriage and - as @GrumpyMom so perceptively observed in one of her many excellent and humane posts - you wanted the 'archetype' of marriage and married life: Above all, your envisaged your wife as an archetype - that world of a breadwinner father, stay at home mom, nursing child, suburbia, picket fence, a fantasy straight from the fifties.

And, then, here is a truly appalling quote from @MrsCampbell:

"Mr Campbell" has asked me to make a correction in my post. He took offense to me stating "... and the role he expects a wife to play."

Here is his correction:
"I've been very, very clear about the fact that it was only with YOU specifically that I took on the attitude of "If I can't have my soul mate/classical musician/in-laws that I appreciate and respect, etc, then the next best thing is a stepford wife, and I'll probably never be offered a stepford wife again, so I should grab this up. I do not ideally want a stepford wife in my life."

I was not aware when he proposed that the only reason he was doing it was for a "Stepford Wife." I did not offer to be that sort of wife.

To do this - to want to do this - to articulate and express and give voice to the fact that this is how you viewed her - or any human being in any sort of relationship, friend, subordinate, boss, colleague, kin, acquaintance - is an incredibly degrading, demeaning and disrespectful thing to want to do to anyone. This is a horrible thing to say, to think, and to do.

Everyone, in any relationship (with you, or with anyone) deserves to be afforded the basic dignity of respect.

I find it very telling that what seems to have prompted, and provoked, the hijacking of the thread by @StephenCampbell - and the deliberate posting of words and feelings that he knew to be extremely hurtful - is his outraged response to the attempt by his wife to assert herself and display some degree of autonomy by starting this thread.

We are back to the old issue of boundaries and control; Stephen - deep down - does not believe that his wife has the right to assert her own space and set her own boundaries. He does not believe that she has the right to say something that he finds inconvenient, or does not wish to hear, or has not given her permission to say.

Even though she started the thread to thank those of us who have offered thoughts, and to offer a courteous postscript to the saga, Stephen feels that he has to head off - and control - this thread, too, and make it, yet again, once more, all about him.

Good grief.

 

[5105973]

Thank you @Scepticalscribe for your many kind remarks to and about me on these threads. It's been a pleasure reading your posts. You've made so many keen observations and insights that have helped sharpen my own ability to examine situations.

Again, you've put into words the feelings and reactions I wasn't able to articulate upon seeing the treatment of Mrs. Campbell on this thread. Her posts hurt my heart but I didn't know what to say and I'm glad you did.

We've gone in circles and chased our tails for pages with Stephen. I think all it has done is feed the beast that is narcissism. Not just Stephen's, but I suppose my repeated posts of "look, I made it, so can you" becomes a form of narcissism itself. I'm not feeding his beast nor mine anymore. I believe if there's progress and epiphanies to be had at all, it will be with his therapist in private. Public spectacle seems to only cause him to loop the same refrain over and over and for our reactions to loop, too. "Lather, rinse, repeat" is the phrase that comes to mind.

But I wanted to pop in for closure and personal thanks between myself and you. It was truly a balm to the soul to see the kind and generous side to the people whose company I've already enjoyed on the more Apple-y parts of this forum.

Edit to add a helpful link to anyone interested in how narcissism can arise in a person due to detachment from people and feelings as a result of a traumatic or dysfunctional childhood: http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/08/04/how-to-spot-a-narcissist/

I like the optimists tone of this blog post because it holds out hope that such a variety of narcissism can be overcome. I don't think the author is talking about the clinical narcissistic personality disorder. But I'm not sure. I liked the article because it helped me recognize a few little things I need to tweak about myself!

 

[MacDawg]

Time to quit circling and finally land this plane methinks

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Not quite, @MacDawg.

That, I think, is for @MrsCampbell to say, and it is for her to indicate how she would wish the thread to be dealt with.

Meanwhile, the only comment I would care to see from @StephenCampbell is an abject apology to his wife for his treatment of her, and for the display of flagrant hurtful disrespect he has shown her.

Seriously, how dare he hijack her thread, and demand that she amend a post where she set out her reasons for departing from the marriage? After he had posted several threads endlessly circling the ceaselessly absorbing topic of himself?

Actually, to be candid, I think this thread is actually more revealing than any of the earlier ones.

And, two remarks: Thank you, @GrumpyMom, for your very kind remarks. For me, it has been a privilege and a pleasure chatting here, and elsewhere, with you; your warm, gracious - and generous - humanity and willingness to offer sober but serious practical advice, are a testament to the essential decency that obviously lies at the core of your character.

Likewise, @A.Goldberg has offered terrific support and sound advice.

To @MrsCampbell, for someone who has gone through so much in recent years, dealing with the hurt and disrespect shown to you - and your family of origin - may I salute your decency, dignity, generosity, grace, clear intelligence and obvious courage.

If your daughter turns out to be half the person you so evidently are, - and with you as a mother, and role model she stands a good chance of seeing these qualities modelled and lived and breathed on a daily basis - she will be someone who will add immeasurably to the worth of the world. May I wish the very best of luck to you both.

 

[keysofanxiety]

I would like to clarify again, as it seems to have fallen on deaf ears, that it's possible that the root problem here was that I proposed to MrsCampbell based on her love for me, even though I lacked the appropriate feelings for her.

Yeah, there's just a remote possibility that could have contributed to the breakup in your marriage.

I want us to be on friendly terms and a good parenting team no matter what happens going forward.

I think that based on what you have said, that ship has long sailed.

 

[Apple_Robert]

In my opinion, Stephen knew what he was doing when he said those hurtful things to his wife. Any apology offered here, in order to appease others, is going to be filled with empty, cold words.

Sceptical, I agree with you on many things you have said on this sad, ugly subject. I understand you wanting to confront Stephen again and try and hold him accountable for what he has said etc. However, I think it best we stop feeding Stephen's narcissism. No matter what is said, the wheels on the bus are going to keep going round and round, because Stephen is engaged in escapism, not to mention denial.

You, GrumpyMom, Goldberg and others have done your best. If you continue on with him, you will only get more frustrated and outraged with nothing to show for it, as far as he is concerned.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

In my opinion, Stephen knew what he was doing when he said those hurtful things to his wife. Any apology offered here, in order to appease others, is going to be filled with empty, cold words.

Sceptical, I agree with you on many things you have said on this sad, ugly subject. I understand you wanting to confront Stephen again and try and hold him accountable for what he has said etc. However, I think it best we stop feeding Stephen's narcissism. No matter what is said, the wheels on the bus are going to keep going round and round, because Stephen is engaged in escapism, not to mention denial.

You, GrumpyMom, Goldberg and others have done your best. If you continue on with him, you will only get more frustrated and outraged with nothing to show for it, as far as he is concerned.

Unfortunately, I think you may well be right.

However, I thought to put it out - in writing - given that Stephen endlessly asks for advice, what might represent an appropriate, courteous, decent, and respectful course of action.

I don't expect him to heed it. Or be capable of understanding why it was written.

But I do expect him to be sufficiently literate for him to be able to read here that some of us hold his behaviour to be not just narcissistic, controlling, disrespectful and deeply demeaning, but hurtful, and vindictive, too.

But, yes, time to bid this adieu, methinks.

 

[mobilehaathi]

Time to quit circling and finally land this plane methinks

That plane plunged into the side of a mountain months ago.

 

[Huntn]

If there's one thing to take away, it's that your better off not going to the internet for advice - and offering advice on the internet is just as bad. Let people and situations be.

I disagree. Some very good, even excellent advice can be found in this forum, however IMO the key is posting with anonymity and secondly taking everything you read with a grain of salt. I frequently speak of family members but only if I can maintain privacy. Not that I would ever turn to MacRumors to discuss serious marriage problems, but if I did, I'd never inform my spouse that I was doing so. This is similiar to having confidences with your best buddy or your girlfriends.

Just keep in mind one thing, this is online text chat with strangers. You can take what is said at face value, and If Mrs. Campbell is authentic, I'm sorry it did not work out. This can be a very traumatic event, however knowing how your spouse really feels also has value. The flip side of the coin, for all we know this could be someone's next As The World Turns Podcast.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I disagree. Some very good, even excellent advice can be found in this forum, however IMO the key is posting with anonymity and secondly taking everything you read with a grain of salt. I frequently speak of family members but only if I can maintain privacy. Not that I would ever turn to MacRumors to discuss serious marriage problems, but if I did, I'd never inform my spouse that I was doing so. This is similiar to having confidences with your best buddy or your girlfriends.

Just keep in mind one thing, this is online text chat with strangers. You can take what is said at face value, and If Mrs. Campbell is authentic, I'm sorry it did not work out. This can be a very traumatic event, however knowing how your spouse really feels also has value. The flip side of the coin, for all we know this could be someone's Next As The World Turns Podcast.

Unfortunately, I think it is real, @Huntn; I have read @StephenCampbell's posts over the past three years, - they haven't changed neither in tone nor content, and the dignity and pain in @MrsCampbell's posts were too raw to be simulated.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

@Scepticalscribe
S, @Huntn has formulated my exact thoughts/impressions concerning this (unfortunate, if true) online "saga".