iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro Systems Must Pass Apple Diagnostics to Function After Certain Repairs [Updated]

medee88 said:
MacBook Pro's are getting to be a harder and harder sell. I've enjoyed them and currently use a 15" 2018 MacBook Pro. Had a 2016 that had numerous keyboard problems that a returned for a 2017 that had more keyboard problems, that I sold for my 2018 that is now having key repeat issues (with multiple keys) now so back to the store again. Really used to have 0 issues before the touchbar models arrived.

This coupled with these complex repair procedures have me really wondering if these are really things that I should be investing in. I enjoy Apple's ecosystem but this is getting to be a tough pill to swallow, security reasons or otherwise.
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I just want to correct your choice of the word investment. Computers are depreciating assets not an investment. As soon as you can no longer return even the $6700 4TB 15” that machine will be worth 70% of its value and keep falling over time.
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Quu said:
I know people still using MacBook Pro's today that came out in 2009-2010. Machines Apple won't repair or service now. Heck they won't even service the 2011 models now.

So third party repair is your only option for those or doing it yourself. It isn't so uncommon to buy a new screen on ebay and fit it yourself or change a logic board to keep a machine running for 1/50th the price of a new one.

So this is real disheartening.
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There are even people like Louis Rossmann in NYC that do component level logic board repair for a fraction of the cost of an ASP. He buys tons of non-working MacBooks just to reuse working parts from their logic boards.

I’m guessing that unless he switches to repairing Windows machines, in a few years his business will be an endangered species which is a shame since he is truly great at what he does.
 
I understand why Apple requires the diagnostic. I also understand why they limit the availability of the diagnostic tool to their shops and authorised resellers. However, the idea that you would buy a machine that costly without some sort of commitment from Apple to repair it for a reasonably long period (say 7 years) is absurd. Apple supposedly cares about the environment and if a machine can be nursed through a simple repair to be productive, then it should be repaired, even if the machine is old.

Why yes, I am still rocking a iPhone 4S running iOS 9. What of it? :oops:
 
kildraik said:
And remember, before any service can be done, the drive must be wiped and cleared or Apple won’t accept it for repair.
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Odd how Apple fails to mention wiping the drive as a requirement in their "Get Ready For Service" instructions.

https://support.apple.com/mac/repair/service

Of course, if it actually were true, there would have been about a zillion lawsuits from people who had products under warranty that they had failed to back up.
 
VulchR said:
I understand why Apple requires the diagnostic. I also understand why they limit the availability of the diagnostic tool to their shops and authorised resellers. However, the idea that you would buy a machine that costly without some sort of commitment from Apple to repair it for a reasonably long period (say 7 years) is absurd. Apple supposedly cares about the environment and if a machine can be nursed through a simple repair to be productive, then it should be repaired, even if the machine is old.

Why yes, I am still rocking a iPhone 4S running iOS 9. What of it? :oops:
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The worst part is that the Apple Geniuses have these diagnostic tools which isolate the exact problem but they cannot do anything with this info since they don’t know how to repair the machines!

The people like Rossmann who can have to use schematics and fix the logic boards through trial and error as well as experience. Ridiculous isn’t it?
[doublepost=1538683800][/doublepost]Then in addition to compound the problem, taking apart any Touch Bar MBP can lead to destroying the Touch Bar as well as a number of components since they use all kinds of really tough adhesives. Even removing the battery from the top case is an ordeal in itself! It’s as if they’re using some sort of epoxy!
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Aston441 said:
The practical reality is that you are renting the software and hardware from them for a limited unspecified amount of time.

The only real solution to this is open source software AND hardware.

It's the only real pathway to freedom from these jerkwipes.
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Good luck with that. Do you have any idea how much work this would take not to mention the resources necessary? This is not just tens of thousands of lines of code!
[doublepost=1538684018][/doublepost]I think a fair compromise would be for Apple to release an iMac Pro and T2 MBP specific diagnostic tool for sale to 3rd repair shops only after they no longer service these machines themselves.
 
kildraik said:
Again, confusing how that is extrapolated from my post. Many companies, government entities and creative departments have policies requiring the removal of business related data before servicing. It has nothing to do with trust.

This forum is full of peaches today!
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1. You are very condescending today. What fruit would be the metaphor for "condescending person"?
2. Where on the Apple website is this "you must wipe your disk" policy posted? I've looked!
 
Gasu E. said:
Odd how Apple fails to mention wiping the drive as a requirement in their "Get Ready For Service" instructions.

https://support.apple.com/mac/repair/service

Of course, if it actually were true, there would have been about a zillion lawsuits from people who had products under warranty that they had failed to back up.
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“Before you return your Mac to us, be sure to enable FileVault and back up your data. You may need the backup if your Mac needs to be reformatted during the repair process. Apple isn’t responsible for lost data.”

I’ve recently had service. It may not be a strict policy yet, but it is a practice they seem to be implementing.

Under Legal, “You acknowledge that your device may be sent out by common carrier to be serviced by an external service provider. For this reason, it's recommended that you back up your device and wipe it, prior to submission for service.”

It may be more of a practice than a policy, but it’s happening.
 
konqerror said:
You should go buy a PC... where the CPU is permanently bound to the chipset by Intel Boot Guard, and Bitlocker/TPM/Windows Automatic Encryption binds your hard drive's data encryption to the motherboard.

People should learn about industry trends before assuming something is Apple-only.
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All those things are optional on Windows PCs.
 
apolloa said:
What kind of stupid policy is that? It’s basically claiming do not Trust us at Apple, we will not abide by the Data Protection Act and our staff will steal your data...

But you’ve managed to flip it around and claim it’s great for security o_O
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Doesn't sound like it's for security so much as to limit liability. They don't want to have to worry about erasing your data, especially on a system with hardware encryption where if they have to swap out anything, it's lost- in the same way it should be to someone who steals your computer.
 
Had a run-in with this in-house tool when my iMac Pro recently refused to turn on. Logic board was shot. Despite the SSDs being socketed and transferable, the software that the repair guy must run to marry all the new components together deletes the drives in the process. Makes total sense....
 
So in 4 years as these machines start to die we'll just have total bricks of these 2018 machines, and no ability for DIY repairs in 7 years when they move to Vintage and Obsolete status.
 
They've been doing this for a while but not this extremely. Honestly it's ****ing ******** and simply not OK. Why is the richest company in the world being so money grubbing after people have already paid for their expensive laptops!!! Don't say security, just don't.

Tim Cook, stop it!
 
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kemal said:
This makes complete sense because third party parts could contain data logging functions. Hate to have a battery spying on me. On another thought, Apple all but admit how profitable their repair business is.
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The Bloomberg article was about extremely sophisticated hardware embedded into high-end servers that were obviously made by state actors targeting very high-profile companies.
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SecuritySteve said:
As you can see in my signature ... I own both of these devices. How am I handling this news? It barely phases me.

Why? Because I will likely end up replacing my iMP in ~5 years, and my laptop in 3. That's just how it goes with technology, especially when you have to stay developing for the bleeding edge, and security testing the bleeding edge.

I will end up reselling it, within it's warranty period, to another user, and put the money towards my next system. They however will be the ones affected by this change, as they will likely hold onto it until it dies, and is just a paperweight.

Alternatively, the diagnostic test might be made available to third party repair shops. Bam, problem solved.
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Apple NEVER releases their internal software to others. You don't think information like this will severely impact the resell value of your devices? It will, trust me.
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matteuk said:
Is Apple turning into the IBM that Steve always hated?
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Yes, Tim was at IBM for 12 years before Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Cook#Pre-Apple_era
 
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I don't know why I'm not surprised. I was expecting a story like this, pretty much as soon as the chips were revealed, just didn't think it would take this long.
 
Apple needs to rethink its vintage policy. 5 years might sound reasonable way back when, but now even a 5-year-old computer are still capable to do majority of its tasks. Heck, Apple still supports the iPhone 5S!

The Pro/Enterprise market tend to have a longer life cycle than the typical consumer market. We will see how things for 5 years from now, when current iMac Pro users might be on the chopping block. Maybe they’ll have an “upgrade program” for Macs similar to iPhone.
 
DVD9 said:
Yes it is if true.

This is the required outcome to repel a cold boot attack that would take place if law enforcement were to grab your computer. Apple needs to put the T2 chip in all of its computers.
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Only criminals and pedophiles need this.
 
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