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There are EU companies operating in the US. Which ones are facing this kind of nonsense?

Remember "Dieselgate"? Yeah VW was doing some really stupid things (just as Apple does today) but it was to noones surprise that all the regulations where written in a way that allowed most of US cars to skirt around them and it was also no surprise that the s### hit the fan just when V.A.G was close to being the biggest car maker in the world.

Now you can whine and nitpick but the reality is that Apple should have (and could have) been a lit less stubborn on some of these issues which would have reduced the pressure on the EU to act. Just like VW should have seen it coming....
 
That's the problem though, right? Sure they can switch to Android but then lose out on iMessage. Locking users behind that choice is exactly the kind of vendor lock in that EU wants to get rid of.

As an example, I recently switched to Android and my family is all using iMessage group chats. They don't work over SMS. All other chat apps are supported on both platforms but not iMessage. It's high time for a regulation. Having to choose your phone based on if iMessage is supported is crazy.
This literally makes no sense. If companies are no longer allowed to develop features if they don’t build it for every platform in existence then you will have a technological bottleneck like never seen before.

”Hey, I want to run OS2 warp on my pc AND have iMessage still, get crackin’ Apple”
 
How is side loading and 3rd party stores going to benefit consumers? The EU never provided any evidence that prices, quality, selection and customer satisfaction with software on the App Store were worse than other platforms that did allow side loading and 3rd party stores (Android, Windows, macOS).

As a consumer, I don't like apple playing nanny and deciding which apps I can install.

The devs will no longer need to be "apple contract employees". They can make the apps they want and sell them how they want. It will be JUST LIKE THE MAC.
 
As a consumer, I don't like apple playing nanny and deciding which apps I can install.

The devs will no longer need to be "apple contract employees". They can make the apps they want and sell them how they want. It will be JUST LIKE THE MAC.
You can use Android if you want?

In your words: "just don't use [iOS]. It's really quite simple."
 
I wonder what Apple thinks about this. Something something security?
Apple did provide proof that they:

A. Used privacy/security as a major marketing element for iOS
B. That iOS was a more private/secure system than Android, Windows, Mac
C. That iOS customers valued privacy/security

So privacy/security was a competitive feature for Apple. And the EU wants to ignore privacy/security as being competitive.
 
I made this comment in the previous thread that dealt with the issue, but it's worth repeating to stress why opening up some of these systems is important despite some drawbacks:

The EU is probably already missing out on some innovation because companies cannot or will not make their products work in accordance with local regulation. There's nothing wrong with that per se, that's a decision for individual companies to make.

It does become a problem if you sell a, for the lack of a better word, global product such as iOS (or Android) but you only allow yourself to use the full potential of the platform. If Apple Pay is not available in your region, then there's really no comparably convenient way to use your iPhone for touchless payment services in shops or public transportation. In some ways that may be insignificant, but it multiplies across several areas.

The obvious rebuttal to forcing platforms to be more open is that they have created the platform and it should therefore be up to them what you can do with them. Don't like it, create your own platform. Fair enough, but pragmatically also not very feasible. Companies such as Apple know that, which is why they are making this argument in the first place.

Ideally, therefore, our smartphones should be open and modular platforms that allow competition not just between platforms but also (to the extent possible) on core services. If Apple does not want to offer touchless payments in your region, use this local solution instead to tap and pay. If Siri doesn't work with your language, swap out out for something that does while still being able to use an iPhone.

No I'm not saying that the DMA/DSA will deliver this, I don't believe they go that far. We shall see what impact they will have in a couple of years. What I do believe, very strongly, is that it would open up room for innovation in places that are not at the forefront of product road maps in Cupertino or Mountain View. As most non-US users of these devices will know, there's always a long list of things that just doesn't work outside of the US and, where local alternatives do exist, it's always a second rate experience because some things just cannot be easily integrated into the "seamless experience." Until the platform provider realises, of course, that it would be profitable, in which case the competitor is immediately at a disadvantage.

Big tech will likely kick and scream, not everything will work as intended and mistakes will be made, but I very strongly believe that more open systems would benefit everyone in the long run.

 
Apple did provide proof that they:

A. Used privacy/security as a major marketing element for iOS
B. That iOS was a more private/secure system than Android, Windows, Mac
C. That iOS customers valued privacy/security

So privacy/security was a competitive feature for Apple. And the EU wants to ignore privacy/security as being competitive.
Indeed, and I can see how this is bad news for people who prefer to have their choices restricted.
 
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kind of weird that people are saying "if apple implemented iMessage on Android or if Apple opened to 3rd party app stores etc..".. It seems like an ultra targeted directive here. Its only Apple that has to change, even though they have only 25% of the EU market.

How is 25% of the market causing a problem that needs a remedy for the whole market?
I think Apple will be within their rights to bring in the USA government here. It seems more of a direct attack on one of the USA's biggest companies.

Pretty massive implications from what I consider to be a huge overreach by EU law makers.
Maybe Apple won't fight, but I can imagine Apple weaponising this overreach to serve EU customers with less quality products and services. Something that the EU will need to explain to its constituents.
if Apple just disabled inbuilt Apple apps and made them use Facebook or WahtsApp as messenging apps it would stop part of this.

For the few who want to sideload, let them install something and then cut them off the regular app store. See how many want to deal with unknown software, limited apps and not knowing who is using their credit cards. Technically youve allowed it. but you push them out of the ecosystem... mayb as well have an Android phone if that happens.
 
Now every big app or game will have a dedicated App Store, should be funny.

On the plus side, now it's easy for Apple to refuse redundant apps or competitors. "You now have an alternative App Store, great, now get out".
 
As a consumer, I don't like apple playing nanny and deciding which apps I can install.

The devs will no longer need to be "apple contract employees". They can make the apps they want and sell them how they want. It will be JUST LIKE THE MAC.
You've already admitted in another of your posts that it's the developer that chooses, not Apple. You said that if the developer wasn't making enough $$ in another store they would go back to selling the app in the App Store.
 
Indeed, and I can see how this is bad news for people who prefer to have their choices restricted.
The restrictions come from the developers. Example: Microsoft could have sold 1st party games on iOS but preferred to limit their availability to Windows/Xbox. In reality, developers can release their software on as many platforms as they want.
 
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As a consumer, I don't like apple playing nanny and deciding which apps I can install.

The devs will no longer need to be "apple contract employees". They can make the apps they want and sell them how they want. It will be JUST LIKE THE MAC.
but a phone isnt a mac.
limited hardware tweaked to prolong battery life.

you let anything on a battery powered device and it can ruin the whole experience.

we had Android users at work install software on their phones and it infected the whole work network and spread to many other phones and crashed our desktop mail for days until they trapped who it was.

just because a few people love to tinker or are sucked into installing something. why should we all suffer?

you buy an iphone knowing it is walled.
dont like that then dont buy it. simple
 
That's the problem though, right? Sure they can switch to Android but then lose out on iMessage. Locking users behind that choice is exactly the kind of vendor lock in that EU wants to get rid of.

As an example, I recently switched to Android and my family is all using iMessage group chats. They don't work over SMS. All other chat apps are supported on both platforms but not iMessage. It's high time for a regulation. Having to choose your phone based on if iMessage is supported is crazy.
Only reason I have an iPhone.
 
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And...this is what Apple gets for not listening to everyone asking them to open up a small bit to hold back the floodgates. The end result of this will be worse for both Apple, developers, and consumers. Every government entity will now have various restrictions to be followed requiring incredible amounts of work to support them all independently, versus just putting a "Don't enable this switch or your phone may get compromised" "developer" mode for installing third party apps.
Approving or rejecting this legislation must be independent of what Apple does. Apple doesn’t have any obligation to do things in order to stop laws, they just have to do what they think is right. And “enabling a switch to allow sideloading” would a profound impact (in my opinion, very negative) on the user experience of iPhone users, it’s not just “an option”.
 
if Apple just disabled inbuilt Apple apps and made them use Facebook or WahtsApp as messenging apps it would stop part of this.

For the few who want to sideload, let them install something and then cut them off the regular app store. See how many want to deal with unknown software, limited apps and not knowing who is using their credit cards. Technically youve allowed it. but you push them out of the ecosystem... mayb as well have an Android phone if that happens.
yeah, If I were Apple I'd literally halve the api's and services I'm willing to let third party stores use. I'd turn the 3rd party app space into a very poor experience. No multi tasking, no access to metal etc.. just a very basic namespace and completely sandboxed from the wider OS.

Then I'd let customers decided what app stores best meets their needs but warn customers every step of the way this stuff is completely unsupported. I'd also say Apple will not help you customer service wise if any app is central to your problems.

For me I'd be fighting fire with fire here. I would make this whole thing a nightmare for the EU.

Message systems would have the most basic interopability possible.
I'd just make it all a huge waste of time.
 
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