Impending EU Regulation to Force Apple to Allow Third-Party App Stores and Open Up iMessage

[PBMB]

The EU are basically hobbling one company that isn't even any where near a monopoly to benefit the rest of the companies who cant create stuff off their own backs so need the govt to cut down the winner and distribute the spoils. Thats how I'm reading it. When was the last time a mass of general users in the EU complained that they couldn't message anyone on another OS? When was the last time a group of normal citizens were up in arms that they couldn't side load some app on the App Store.

This is all lobbyist money coming from rival software companies. I dont think it has much to do with what the general public really want or need.

Thank you for the summary. This is precisely what it is. Anyone having at least some contact with the EU institutions knows very well that their corridors are ridden with lobbyists. They push very hard their own interests. In the present case they don't even try to hide, when the text says this:

Earlier versions of the Digital Markets Act set out demands for big tech companies to share metrics with competitors

All the rest is excuses to cover up. And by which logic will they fine the companies that do not conform to the rules based on their worldwide turnover? Not sure if WTO can play a role here but it should intervene.

The problem is that nothing can be done about it. I only hope that Apple has countermeasures that will make such rules not worth applying.

 

[Mike_313]

Apple had enough time to act on their own. But they preferred to maximise profits and fight all signals of change.
In the long run companies that do not change are going to die.
It would have been better for apple and customers to lead in change not to be forced into it. But they decided not to.

 

[aidler]

Apple just needs to ship a neutered version of iOS in the EU that removes the iMessage and FaceTime clients, then block those services completely in the EU, and just ship with SMS out of the box. Also remove Music, Podcasts, App Store, etc. Basically ship a device that makes calls, with a time-limited browser containing text links to other stores and services, with EU companies at the top, then alphabetical. Jack up prices in the EU by 20% to compensate for jumping through all of their hoops.

Apple will take a hit on services, but still get hardware revenue. They can also start implementing a plan to shut down Apple Pay and other services the EU will not explicitly allow. The EU should tell Apple specifically which services they may offer, and let them sunset the ones that aren't. They should also set up an agency where foreign companies can present their business plans first, before trying to enter the EU market, in order to know if their business will be permitted to operate there.

I have no idea what's going to happen, but Apple has found solutions to comply with all regulations in dictatorships like China without shutting down a single service, but when a democratic state issues a regulation, they pull out or shut down services? Regardless of what you think about governments, law makers or regulations, I find that very unlikely. As the innovative company that Apple always wants to be, they should instead come up with a solution that will blow everyone's minds.

 

[Mike_313]

They should also set up an agency where foreign companies can present their business plans first, before trying to enter the EU market, in order to know if their business will be permitted to operate there.

That is not the way it works. The companies have to comply to the rules. If they do not it will be brought to court. There is always some risk of being sued and fined.

 

[tranceme]

I totally support alternative app stores and payment methods, but forcing iMessage interoperability makes no sense. A messaging service wants to offer certain features without requiring other messaging services to support those features

Fully agree. This is way over stepping. If this goes through, then there a millions of companies that can no longer make unique products. Thinking of gaming companies. Every game that they make that can do online play has to then work with other platforms. And, why doesn't Microsoft Teams work with Slack directly? Time for the EU to beat them up too.

 

[Luis Ortega]

They should just officially pull out of EU. iPhones would become contraband and sell as much ! The actual Apple Users would probably complain enough that....

I think apple should bring all of its manufacturing back to the US and pull out of every other world market that tries to regulate it, like China or the EU.
It should be an American-made product sold only to Americans and other freedom loving people who value their privacy above all else.
That is, until those governments tell Cook to cough up the personal data on their users and Tim bends over meekly.

 

[tranceme]

Does it actually matter nobody is going to force you to download another App Store if you don’t want. My sister has a Samsung mobile & she has zero malware so stop telling scary story’s to people. Apple just don’t want anyone else getting a bit of there app money.

Then people should buy an Samsung device. Problem solve and you just stated there is choice. Your sister made it.

 

[Bigsk8r]

As long as I am not *required* to install a 3rd party app store, or allow cross platform messaging on my iMessage when I travel, then fine. Let the EU be the cesspool of malware and spam that it is sure to become and leave me out of it.

 

[ryan102]

I'd imagine alot of the changes will be optional for users. If you want to use a 3rd party store, that will be your choice, something that we don't currently have.

Although this does have a slight hint of revenge from the EU. Apple refused to comply with requests to let law enforcement into handsets if required and went down the Privacy route at every turn. It seemed like Governments couldn't do anything.....until now.

Now Apple will have to either exit the EU market or open up their OS by law. To be honest, this has been a long time coming, there has been talk for many years about Apple having their system locked down and no one could have access to it. The time has apparently come to change that.

 

[wstewart]

I do think EU's political stance and possible pressure from the DoJ Antitrust Division and the FTC may force Apple and Google to merge iMessage and Google's Rich Communications Services (RCS) into a single messaging standard, whether Apple likes it or not.

I think there is something here ... although I wouldn't count on "merge" as opposed to some form of interoperability. Since the latest iteration of Google's RCS supports E2E encryption, it would seem that Apple and Google to put create the ability for these two systems to communicate with one another, using E2E encryption, and avoid SMS altogether (unless the user chooses to use the SMS fallback provided by both systems). Hard to understand why Apple/Google didn't see this coming ... or maybe they did and just wanted to ignore regulators. iOS and Android represent 95+% of the mobile OS market ... if they provide interoperability, seems like all others could fit within those "interoperability" standards.

More broadly, all I really want is clear ability to export my data from any and all messaging apps/services. WhatsApp does this best, IMHO; it allows a clean, simple export of chat history (with or without media); I don't use their "backup" features as a don't really like/trust cloud providers, but I know many do/will. Signal makes this tougher: no backup on iOS, although they have a "device to device" transfer option for moving your chat history to a new phone. They have a backup procedure on Android, which I haven't used but I wish existed for iOS as well. I understand their desire to limit data export (otherwise nefarious actors could abuse it), but I would argue that the option should be available for those who want it and understand the risks.

On iMessage ... sorry, you need a third-party app (like iExplorer) to get your chat history off the device. iExplorer does a good job with this (similar to WhatsApp), but it feels like Apple should provide this functionality natively. Why can't I export my own data on my own device, Apple?

Again, I don't think EU regulators (or regulators anywhere) are really going to improve things, but marginal changes by Apple and others could defuse some of the arguments they are making - especially when judges start reviewing the facts of these cases during the inevitable legal challenges.

 

[d686546s]

Apple just needs to ship a neutered version of iOS in the EU that removes the iMessage and FaceTime clients, then block those services completely in the EU, and just ship with SMS out of the box. Also remove Music, Podcasts, App Store, etc. Basically ship a device that makes calls, with a time-limited browser containing text links to other stores and services, with EU companies at the top, then alphabetical. Jack up prices in the EU by 20% to compensate for jumping through all of their hoops.

Apple will take a hit on services, but still get hardware revenue.

What makes you think Apple would deliberately sabotage its cash cow and people still buy it?

 

[hcherry]

And...this is what Apple gets for not listening to everyone asking them to open up a small bit to hold back the floodgates. The end result of this will be worse for both Apple, developers, and consumers. Every government entity will now have various restrictions to be followed requiring incredible amounts of work to support them all independently, versus just putting a "Don't enable this switch or your phone may get compromised" "developer" mode for installing third party apps.

Doesn’t make it right.

 

[dzankizakon]

Putin will love this, Western countries destroying each other’s companies with massive fines, sanctions and unreasonable demands. German car companies have been using illegal tactics to avoid emission laws and it’s time they are all stopped from selling on the US market indefinitely.

 

[hcherry]

Just as consumers should be free to purchase (or not) the products or services they believe to be most beneficial, companies should be free to design, manufacture, and offer the products and services they believe are most beneficial for their business.

Provided the rights of individuals are not violated, neither party should be forced into a decision they believe isn’t in their interest.

 

[Wildkraut]

The regulation will not go into effect before 2023.

Digital Markets Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Time flies, at least they won’t be able to say they didn’t have enough time to develop. ?

 

[robco74]

That is not the way it works. The companies have to comply to the rules. If they do not it will be brought to court. There is always some risk of being sued and fined.

Right, they should set up a system that will certify that a company is in compliance so they have some assurance that they will be able to operate within the EU for a period of time.

 

[dk001]

Questions and Answers: Digital Markets Act: Ensuring fair and open digital markets*

What is the Digital Markets Act?\nThe Digital Markets Act introduces rules for platforms that act as “gatekeepers” in the digital sector. These are platforms that have a significant impact on the inter

ec.europa.eu

Not the word Apple anywhere in that document.
Not Google either.

 

[Wildkraut]

Looking forward to WWDC 2023 ?

 

[robco74]

What makes you think Apple would deliberately sabotage its cash cow and people still buy it?

Apple products are already more expensive than most of their competitors, but people still buy them. It's not sabotage by Apple, they would just be complying with the EU, and making sure that EU companies are given privileged placement and opportunity so that EU users will be able to select those, before (or if) they choose a product or service from a foreign company.

Basically, the user can only sign up for Apple Podcasts after viewing other competing podcast apps. Or they can only sign up for Apple Music after viewing Spotify first, then other music apps like Pandora or Tidal, then finally, Apple Music. Make sure Apple's service is the last one presented so that it is least favored, and give EU companies most favored. If the number of users selecting EU-based services is insufficient, then I guess the EU can just start banning competitors outright.

 

[sracer]

The EU can **** off. If Apple had been founded as a French or German conglomerate, this wouldn't exist.

If I wanted the ability to lobotomise my smartphone, I'd buy an Android phone.

Absolutely! If Apple doesn't protect customers from themselves who will?

 

[Gfive]

It's well known that the EU leaders do not know where they talk about.... Only gain from the EU in this is money....

The EU is not able to get ONE EU law for music, movie or other laws... So every external company need to get their deals per country within the EU... But this they can? Oh yeah that's right, EU is heavenly in need of money...

 

[Hunter5117]

So the solution is to make iMessage just as terrible as every other messaging service? Brilliant!

I think some of this discussion is going off the rails and some of the more alarming and bizarre has not been touched on.

I don't see anything in the proposed legislation that would suggest that say, Messages would have to be allowed to run on an Android based phone or tablet. Only that a third party messaging app would be able to send a message to someone using Messages, through ip only aka not an SMS message. Eventually this gets expanded to supporting multiple incoming chats aka groups, and then voice and video.

So, at least initially, none of the Messages features that make it desirable from an Apple users standpoint would be at risk. Say, the ability to stream and share a show or movie from Apple TV via FaceTime.

It would seem that a lot of the work is going to be on the 3rd party vendor. They will be required to do the server-side work to support whatever api protocols that Apple provides. Of course, same from Apples side. However, the wording in the original post seems to indicate that Apple might only have to comply with, say, WhatsApp, if Apple wanted and requested that capability.

What I do find disturbing the the frequent mention of business users.

"The control of an important gateway for business users towards final consumers: this is presumed to be the case if the company operates a core platform service with more than 45 million monthly active end users established or located in the EU and more than 10,000 yearly active business users established in the EU in the last financial year;"

and:

"Gatekeepers will carry an extra responsibility to conduct themselves in a way that ensures an open online environment that is fair for businesses and consumers, and open to innovation by all, by complying with specific obligations laid down in the draft legislation."

Does this mean that a messaging platform, like Messages or WhatsApp, could become a method for business users to reach buyers. Would we become bombarded with advertising in the middle of our private conversations on these platforms?

And what does this mean for platforms like Facebook or Twitter. Do they have to open themselves to interaction from 3rd party apps?

And what possibly could this mean where it refers to operating systems and cloud computing services? It seems truly bizarre that they envision Apple or Microsoft opening up their OS or cloud to any 3rd party that comes along and makes the request.

 

[bobenhaus]

Noice.

 

[_Spinn_]

I can't wait to see how this screws me over as a US citizen. I still haven't forgiven the EU for all those terrible cookie nag messages thanks to GDPR. Plus the EU is trying to crush Bitcoin as well in favor of Ethereum. I wish governments would just leave things alone instead of "fixing" them until they are broken.

 

[user002]

And...this is what Apple gets for not listening to everyone asking them to open up a small bit to hold back the floodgates. The end result of this will be worse for both Apple, developers, and consumers. Every government entity will now have various restrictions to be followed requiring incredible amounts of work to support them all independently, versus just putting a "Don't enable this switch or your phone may get compromised" "developer" mode for installing third party apps.

Pretty much this. Apple became so arrogant and so accustomed to American congressional acquiescence (in large part due to them buying everybody off) that they overlooked the EU's track record with consumer protectionism.

Its really interesting test case of governments fighting corporations on a global scale , the fact that a government can dictate which port an electrical device will have is really something crazy.

The EU government isnt dictating anything. They're establishing a set of rules for companies that want to do business in the EU? Dont like the rules? Pull your products out. Sure, you may lose a quarter of your revenues (and your stock price will tank), but dont say you werent warned.

Does it actually matter nobody is going to force you to download another App Store if you don’t want. My sister has a Samsung mobile & she has zero malware so stop telling scary story’s to people. Apple just don’t want anyone else getting a bit of there app money.

Thank you. Im not sure why its a particularly difficult concept for people to grasp.

Proper leadership in Washington would be threatening retaliation against European enterprises if this even comes close to being law.

Proper leadership like who, Trump? He burned all his bridges with the Europeans. He preferred to throw his lot in with the Gulf Arab authoritarian, repressive, freedom-hating regimes.

The thing is, this would allow a developer to use a non-native payment gateway. I trust Apple with my payment details, I won't trust some third-party dev with my payment details.

Great, then you can continue trusting them with your payment details. Im not sure how this is supposed to prevent you from doing so. Market fragmentation is not an issue on Android, which allows sideloading.

once again I ask, why do you feel forced to use an app with a non-native payment gateway?

just don't use the app. it's really quite simple.

Pretty much.

As a consumer, I don't like apple playing nanny and deciding which apps I can install.

The devs will no longer need to be "apple contract employees". They can make the apps they want and sell them how they want. It will be JUST LIKE THE MAC.

Exactly this.

The DMA will, for the most part, harm American companies – big US corporations. Therefore, it will harm the US. Policy makers in Washington should wake up.

This will end up being an EU vs. US issue.

An apt response by the US would be to impose new tariffs on all European consumer goods.

In case you didnt notice, Congress is currently drafting legislation with very similar provisions to the EU's. If anything, they AGREE with the Europeans.

The whole point of all this is to hand the actual users the power to make those choices!

The status quo is that large gatekeeper corporations force the user to stay limited to only their silo, abusing it as platform leverage. The new rules take many of those levers out of the hands of those gatekeepers and hand the decisions over to the users.

Exactly. Why do so many people hate the freedom to choose? It's mind-boggling.