In Depth Mac OS X Leopard Review

[mixel]

Here is hoping Amiga OS 5 will be as good as they claim...better than OS X is what they are saying. Hard to believe, but I sure hope it's true.

When "They" = Bill McEwen I wouldn't hold my breath.. How many other things have Amiga Inc said that turned out to be wishful thinking?

Oops Zadillo got there first.

Anyway, I loved the Ars review - I'd never have known about most of it, and I agree with most of his gripes on the cosmetics. Stacks are bizarre, I really think they should reenable the old option, exactly how he implemented it in his mockup!

Saying that, actually being able to manipulate the files in stacks is a bonus! You can't do that in a simple popup menu.. its nice being able to drag crap out of a stack to trash it without having to go into the finder.. Maybe they could make a Stack setting letting you enable a much bigger grid? Thatd be nice.

I'm exactly on the fence in regards to the see-through menubar.. It does seem daft. Certainly should be optional.

 

[notjustjay]

Those of you with PB G4's, how much RAM do you have? My 12" G4 is still running Tiger on 512 MB. I want to upgrade to Leopard, but wonder if it's worthwhile... I'll probably have to max it out at 1.25 GB.

 

[extensor]

This is as close to trolling as one could go without actually doing it...

Although you've defended it before, the concept of full screen for "everything" is pretty much useless and counter-productive, to say the least...Apple is wise enough to enable full screen usage when it IS useful. Full screen for viewing files? Come on...viewing files has no purpose by itself; it's a means for doing something else with them.

The two other comments relate to "lighting" in a purely subjective manner.

In other words, all this ranting for pretty much nothing. As for AmigaOS, it's never been good and it never will be...it's a dead platform. So if you feel like choosing a great OS, at least pick GS/OS which was much better and better designed...apart from the overhyped Amiga multitasking, its OS was useless for serious tasks; and the Amiga Workbench was simply ridiculous. So calm down, take a pill and come back later with more constructive comments, please.

I've got to say the reason I moved from Windows to OS X is because it is becoming more and more like the Amiga from the late 80's. To say the Amiga OS was useless for serious tasks is ridiculous. Since this is OT I won't elaborate unless you request it. Would I be correct in guessing that you are a former AtariST user? :

 

[Virgil-TB2]

feature not finished, hold your complaints please

It's now becoming an accepted fact that, although Stacks add a nice feature for some users, for many other users it's a HUGE downgrade in functionality of a feature that many people rely on. ... Other than the stacks debacle, Leopard looks like an awesome upgrade.

After reading the Ars review I think I finally understand (a bit), why so many people are whining so loudly about the dock and stacks, but am I the only one getting sick of hearing about it?

I think people need to remind themselves (and this is hardly ever mentioned in the same breath as the complaints), that this is one of those things that was removed at the last second by Apple. It's fairly likely that they will at least attempt to address these problems with the first point upgrades, so can we all just stop tearing our hair out over it for a while?

The important thing to remember here is that the solution for these problems has already been demonstrated. I saw the video on the Apple website demo these abilities during the months it was up; didn't anyone else? The functionality that would make Stacks more useable was already there, (smart folders and user configurable folders), it was simply removed (presumably because it didn't work right) from the Golden Master, and will almost certainly be back in one of the first updates.

It's not a coincidence that the videos demonstrating these bits of functionality have been removed from Apple's web site and replaced with the "Apple Leopard Tour." The ability of Stacks to use smart folders and to be used as a file launcher in the same way as the 10.4 functionality was in works, right up until the release of the GM. The ability of Time Machine to back up wirelessly (also one of it's main features), was also part of the plan. Removing features that don't work right (temporarily) at the last second is sadly, a fairly standard thing.

What are the real odds that these features (that Apple mentioned in their own advertising right up until release date), are going to be missing for very long?

 

[HLdan]

Stacks are USELESS! the ability to dock a folder and have it act as a pop-up menu in which you could navigate to subfolders was so useful, I was rarely using the finder to get to files, now I have to because stacks can't do the menu option, sure they look cool and are all nice and spring loaded (which would have been nice to add to the menu version) but a choice would have been nice!
Just add that as a further option, menu view or something.
I'm unhappy because they took a perfectly fine feature, a useful one and reduced it to these graphically cool but totally useless stacks!

While your argument about Stacks is valid I have to disagree with you when you say Stacks is useless. It's only useless to people who see it as useless. You say that because there's no more menu option to access files well the grid view does give you full access to your files so you don't need to access the Finder. Yes, fan view sucks because if there's too many files it will tell you to get the rest from the Finder but you have a choice and if you choose to use only the fan view you will have to use the Finder at some point.

 

[Detektiv-Pinky]

I also feel the same way. A good way to customize the stack icon is, put an icon you like in the stack folder and name it 0. Then sort by name.

Here is a screenshot of mine, I used a bag icon and it looks like my apps are stuffed inside ;-)

Hey, while this solves some of the issue, I would technically call this a hack.

It should not be necessary to have people hunting for hacks for an OS that claims to be superior in usability. I think what people are asking for is to have the choice to adapt the UI of their computer to their personal necessities and comfort level. I do not think there is an 'one-size-fits-all' solution. Foregoing choice and self-determination is actually what is driving people mad - or to switch to other systems.

 

[mixel]

As for AmigaOS, it's never been good and it never will be...it's a dead platform. So if you feel like choosing a great OS, at least pick GS/OS which was much better and better designed...apart from the overhyped Amiga multitasking, its OS was useless for serious tasks; and the Amiga Workbench was simply ridiculous. So calm down, take a pill and come back later with more constructive comments, please.

I take offense at your attitude here, you can like something else in another system and hate something in a system without it meaning the OS sucks. Ars Technica definitely disagree with you too, as to anyone who used and loved the Amiga. Have you even seen a modern Amiga setup? It's prettier than Windows, thats for sure. (I'm not saying that's difficult)

There's a lot to love in AmigaOS AND osX.. I couldn't use AmigaOS now as a primary platform, but it was, and IS a good system. Certain features osX is only just catching up now. How is it that things are "overhyped" when another system does it, but important when the Mac does it? Hmm.. I've noticed Mac guys doing that a lot!

How is it useless for serious tasks? How was it ridiculous? I'd argue Leopard (visually) is considerably more ridiculous, lol. (in a fun way that I appreciate at least) it was used for serious tasks in multiple industries.
I guess the point is; Why attack something so vehemently? What did AmigaOS ever do to you?

I would agree about it being a dead platform (in the most part) but that doesn't mean its not a worthwhile one. I hate when people dismiss something just because they don't use it, I hate it when its targetted at the Mac, I hate it when It's targetted at the Amiga, QNX, BeOS, etc.. There's a lot these systems (and their users) could learn from each other.. And there's certainly more to appreciate in Workbench than just the multitasking..

But AmigaOS will never be a threat to osX or any of the big players - they had their chance, best it can do is find another niche.

Glad to see extensor stick up for the Amiga camp too.. I feel bad for elaborating so much, lol.

 

[Detektiv-Pinky]

<snip>

Menu bar at the top can not be hidden, nor is translucency adjustable. Irritating.

<snip>

There is another hack for this: create a custom background image with a white stripe at the top, just as wide as the menu - voila - a non transparent menu bar!

<sarcastic-on>
I wonder that Apple still let's people get away with such easy tinkering to destroy their fancy UI features.
Changing Desktop backgrounds will be disabled in 10.6!
<sarcastic-off>

 

[Virgil-TB2]

personal preference arguments

The point about the transparency issue with the menu bar isn't one of personal preference - the fact that you use a light backdrop that doesn't interfere with the menu isn't an argument to say that transparent menu bars are a good idea. The point surely is that under certain circumstances i.e. certain desktop backgrounds, the menu is literally unreadable - that is not an opinion just a fact.

I have to disagree with you in turn.

The one slight disagreement I have with the Ars review is that it *does* veer into personal preference arguments over issues like the Dock and the Menu Bar. To their credit, the author even acknowledges this (for the most part).

Personally, I hate the idea of a semi-transparent menu-bar, but there are those that find it fantastic. This is personal preference.

I have yet to see any argument anyone has made that in any way proves that it limits functionality however. The same goes for the 3-D dock. Lots' like it, lots hate it. But the functionality is basically either the same as the old dock or slightly improved. The fact that the issue is cosmetic and preference based is proven by the fact that a cosmetic change (2D dock hack), is all that is necessary for it to be "fixed" in the minds of most users.

The stacks argument is different, but in terms of the 3-D dock and the menubar there does not seem to be any "functional" problem. Transparency has (unfortunately IMO), been used throughout the system but everywhere it is used, great care has been taken not to reduce legibility or functionality. There is no point at which a menu even approaches illegibility for instance and to indicate otherwise is to exaggerate wildly IMO.

 

[richard4339]

Siracusa is, however, enthusiastic about Time Machine ("people will actually use") and describes steady and significant improvements in Mac OS X's performance and responsiveness. Leopard's kernel is also said to be better about scheduling processes, allowing you to make better use of multi-core CPUs.

That's actually one thing I've really noticed about Leopard; it actually seems slower than Tiger on my machine. I'm running it on a MacBook Pro (second gen) with 2gb of ram, but I'm trying to let it run a little bit to "break it in", because I've noticed in the past that it can take a few reboots to get up to normal speeds.

 

[72930]

That's actually one thing I've really noticed about Leopard; it actually seems slower than Tiger on my machine. I'm running it on a MacBook Pro (second gen) with 2gb of ram, but I'm trying to let it run a little bit to "break it in", because I've noticed in the past that it can take a few reboots to get up to normal speeds.

Did you upgrade or erase+install? If it was an upgrade, an erase might help a lot...

 

[jpine]

Hope I have not missed this. This seems to be a very active thread. Does anyone know if there are issues with 10.5 and the following:

Lightwave8
Photoshop8

TIA!

BTW, how many posts do I need to get promoted from Newbie to Regular?

 

[gwangung]

I have to disagree with you in turn.

The one slight disagreement I have with the Ars review is that it *does* veer into personal preference arguments over issues like the Dock and the Menu Bar. To their credit, the author even acknowledges this (for the most part).

Personally, I hate the idea of a semi-transparent menu-bar, but there are those that find it fantastic. This is personal preference.

I have yet to see any argument anyone has made that in any way proves that it limits functionality however. The same goes for the 3-D dock. Lots' like it, lots hate it. But the functionality is basically either the same as the old dock or slightly improved. The fact that the issue is cosmetic and preference based is proven by the fact that a cosmetic change (2D dock hack), is all that is necessary for it to be "fixed" in the minds of most users.

The stacks argument is different, but in terms of the 3-D dock and the menubar there does not seem to be any "functional" problem. Transparency has (unfortunately IMO), been used throughout the system but everywhere it is used, great care has been taken not to reduce legibility or functionality. There is no point at which a menu even approaches illegibility for instance and to indicate otherwise is to exaggerate wildly IMO.

I think this is a good point.

Personal preferences DO have a place in evaluating changes to a personal computer...and while they do impact on usability, they aren't one and the same, after all...

 

[Avatar74]

I think Siracusa may have answered his own question regarding some of the icons. When he starts discussing resolution independence... could it be that the old folder icons made resolution independence a lot trickier to implement successfully? It certainly seems the new folders look a lot easier to manage from that perspective. They just need maybe a very faint color difference in the embossed part for better visibility of the folder category. Other than that, the old angled folders are definitely out of date for the new desktop and hardware case designs.

 

[flopticalcube]

I have yet to see any argument anyone has made that in any way proves that it limits functionality however. The same goes for the 3-D dock. Lots' like it, lots hate it. But the functionality is basically either the same as the old dock or slightly improved. The fact that the issue is cosmetic and preference based is proven by the fact that a cosmetic change (2D dock hack), is all that is necessary for it to be "fixed" in the minds of most users.

The stacks argument is different, but in terms of the 3-D dock and the menubar there does not seem to be any "functional" problem. Transparency has (unfortunately IMO), been used throughout the system but everywhere it is used, great care has been taken not to reduce legibility or functionality. There is no point at which a menu even approaches illegibility for instance and to indicate otherwise is to exaggerate wildly IMO.

This is true except when it impairs the GPU. My MacBook suffered from stuttering and choppiness until I converted the dock to 2D. There is a functional dimension to this.

 

[carbonmotion]

This is true except when it impairs the GPU. My MacBook suffered from stuttering and choppiness until I converted the dock to 2D. There is a functional dimension to this.

no its not actually 3d... its the real time reflections that your intel gpu is choking on

 

[Cloudane]

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20071025084657387

Sweet... thanks. From there I can see the images necessary to hopefully turn that fuzzy blob back into a triangle

 

[carbonmotion]

of the five professional graphic/ motion/ web designers who work for big ad agencies that I know, all of them hate the new interface. I can't say I disagree. There is something to be said about subtly and refinement, the new menu bar and dock is just all bling bling. I feel like Tiger was a Mercedes S class and Leopard was a Mercedes S class with duo-tone paint, 22" chrome rims, and a body kit. If that's your thing, then by all means have your cake and eat it too. If not, then you're inclined to feel a little disappointed like myself and others.

 

[Alloye]

of the five professional graphic/ motion/ web designers who work for big ad agencies that I know, all of them hate the new interface. I can't say I disagree. There is something to be said about subtly and refinement, the new menu bar and dock is just all bling bling. I feel like Tiger was a Mercedes S class and Leopard was a Mercedes S class with duo-tone paint, 22" chrome rims, and a body kit. If that's your thing, then by all means have your cake and eat it too. If not, then you're inclined to feel a little disappointed like myself and others.

Fair enough. But then it's also fair to say Tiger was a Mercedes S class with a different color paint on every body panel.

 

[axcess99]

This is true except when it impairs the GPU. My MacBook suffered from stuttering and choppiness until I converted the dock to 2D. There is a functional dimension to this.

Strange, reflections are almost trivial in terms of the amount of overhead, especailly with Apple's OpenGL rendering engine. 3D vs 2D has no impact on my aging 1Ghz G4 PowerBook.

There is probably a bug there somewhere that will hopefully get streamlined/fixed for your much more powerful and newer laptop.

 

[carbonmotion]

PLUS,

Functionally, the new Leopard work just as well as Tiger, but most people justify the cost of upgrade because of the new look and features. Most of the "new" features don't work for me personally, but they might work for a lot of other people who need them.

Fortunately, my friends and I split a family license, so the cost of Leopard wasn't bad at all.

 

[breal8406]

Haha

http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13506_1-9806255-17.html

I think Apple saw this coming. It's been known for a few years now Windows is becoming bloated. I think Apple's engineers know that in it's current form the Windows architecture won't hold up to a competitor that releases major upgrades so quickly. At least not while being so stubborn about backward compatibility.

I got a theory that Apple is hoping if it just keeps the new versions of OS X coming every 12 to 18 months that Windows will just collapse on top of itself from bloat while trying to keep up.

If that happens then, at least according to Steve, Windows, one of the few examples of hardware & software decoupling working super well...is out of the picture and Apple takes top spot in a revolutionized electronics industry where hardware & software are coupled together.

It's wishful thinking but I don't think the thought is all that far fetched.

 

[redkamel]

here is my unofficial Leopard review (Using for a few hours). I was a terrible naysayer before. Here is what I didn't like before: Time machine pointless for me (I am very organized and do backups anyhow), quicklook also useless for me, stacks looked "ok" and too much eye candy. Eye candy was the least of my concerns.

Now after using Leopard....
the new dock is a blight. Terrible! Cant read it, cant click on it! Had to fix with terminal after a few hours, after almost becoming a side docker.

Stacks is ugly. The Fan fonts are fuzzy and it is very distracting. The Grid view, at least is passable. Unfortunately I can't turn it off and go back to the old mode..have to use aliases.

The clear menu bar is terrible. I cant even read it, and the transluceny is distracting.

Spaces, I dont use it. Quicklook, dont need it. Time machine, now I dont have to do backups so its nice.

brightness controls still dont go low enough.

unfortunately, quicklook turns all small icons into previews. So instead of looking for a .doc icon for a document, I get these white icons on a white background in a white window. Very hard to find them.

The new folders are kinda cool, but VERY plain. No color on them either.

So bascially, my concerns flipped: all the new features I thought were a waste of money are ok, or can be ignored (except Stacks, but whatever, I am sure the fan effect pleases some), and the eye candy/icon changes are terrible. Seriously, did anyone even use this before release? If I wasnt so lazy i would switch back to Tiger. If you have Tiger and like it fine, like I did, dont upgrade!!! Apple what have you done to your UI!!!?!??

 

[50548]

I've got to say the reason I moved from Windows to OS X is because it is becoming more and more like the Amiga from the late 80's. To say the Amiga OS was useless for serious tasks is ridiculous. Since this is OT I won't elaborate unless you request it. Would I be correct in guessing that you are a former AtariST user? :

Nope, Apple IIGS user actually...much better OS (really Mac-like), full backwards compatibility with Apple II and a wonderful sound capability unmatched up to this very day...

Have ya ever used Workbench? What about that ridiculous Commodore mouse...there is no comparison, although games and sampling apps were great.

here is my unofficial Leopard review (Using for a few hours). I was a terrible naysayer before. Here is what I didn't like before: Time machine pointless for me (I am very organized and do backups anyhow), quicklook also useless for me, stacks looked "ok" and too much eye candy. Eye candy was the least of my concerns.

Now after using Leopard....
the new dock is a blight. Terrible! Cant read it, cant click on it! Had to fix with terminal after a few hours, after almost becoming a side docker.

Stacks is ugly. The Fan fonts are fuzzy and it is very distracting. The Grid view, at least is passable. Unfortunately I can't turn it off and go back to the old mode..have to use aliases.

The clear menu bar is terrible. I cant even read it, and the transluceny is distracting.

Spaces, I dont use it. Quicklook, dont need it. Time machine, now I dont have to do backups so its nice.

brightness controls still dont go low enough.

unfortunately, quicklook turns all small icons into previews. So instead of looking for a .doc icon for a document, I get these white icons on a white background in a white window. Very hard to find them.

The new folders are kinda cool, but VERY plain. No color on them either.

So bascially, my concerns flipped: all the new features I thought were a waste of money are ok, or can be ignored (except Stacks, but whatever, I am sure the fan effect pleases some), and the eye candy/icon changes are terrible. Seriously, did anyone even use this before release? If I wasnt so lazy i would switch back to Tiger. If you have Tiger and like it fine, like I did, dont upgrade!!! Apple what have you done to your UI!!!?!??

I am glad it's YOUR review...it sounds like Leopard is at the bottom of the pit, a ridiculous upgrade...at least 100% of the real reviewers out there say it's, AT THE VERY LEAST, great...so no, thanks, I will stick to Apple.

 

[Alloye]

Nope, Apple IIGS user actually...much better OS (really Mac-like), full backwards compatibility with Apple II and a wonderful sound capability unmatched up to this very day...

Have ya ever used Workbench? What about that ridiculous Commodore mouse...there is no comparison, although games and sampling apps were great.

Hmmm... The two GS users I knew back then were so jealous of my Amiga that they switched. But you're right about one thing: The GS was very Mac-like.