Intel Announces 8th-Generation Whiskey Lake and Amber Lake Processors Suitable for MacBook and MacBook Air

[bluecoast]

From the Anandtech link, it appears there's a native USB 3.1 controller onboard. Could this mean Apple would in theory be able to use USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 speeds (10Gb/s) on each port? That would be a useful upgrade to the MacBook - equivalent to Thunderbolt 1 speed. The improved onboard WiFi might also be attractive for Apple too.

The Anandtech link also implies that these CPUs are also Kaby Lake based - so could they be arriving in time for the MBA and MacBook if announced in late October?

The Amber Lake CPU in this lineup has a slightly higher TDP, so could we be seeing more battery space used in an evolution of the 12" model (as with the already released MacBook Pros?)

I absolutely think you’re right.

USB 3 for the MBA now it’s built into the processor is almost a given. I don’t think we’ll be getting USB 2 though (the port will likely be too big for the sort of chassis that Apple wants to ship).

I also think that these models will sacrifice turbo boost for battery life and be firmly aimed at light productivity tasks with ‘all day battery life’ ie 10-12 hours.

I think you’re spot on with your observations of the MB regarding the Y processors. Riffing off what intel said, we’ll be looking at something like 18 hours with low power standby times way beyond that.

Hopefully the built in USB 3.0 means that they’ll be room for two ports...

 

[PickUrPoison]

Indeed, when contrasted with the MBP13 upsell, I think it would be a stretch to expect the general public to care about the difference between a quad-core and a better-quad-core.

If a $999 model is quad-core, then I can only assume Tim Cook has been tied to a chair somewhere.

Yeah, in addition to the $1,799 MBP quad-cores there’s also the rMB dual-cores sitting there at $1,299.

I don’t see how that $1,299 can hold, unless the $999 MBA follow-on doesn’t have a Retina display on the base model. My thought is we could see 1920x1200 IPS, with Retina starting at $1,149-1,199.

There’s a lot of ground to cover between a new $999 machine and the $1,799 MBP, and a slightly larger SSD and the Touch Bar aren’t worth $800. That’s why I think the $999 model has to be less than Retina, and dual-core. And no TB3.

Then you’d a have $999 + $150-200 Retina upgrade + $200 quad upgrade + $200 for 128GB—>256 SSD upgrade and be getting to $1,799 MBP territory. MBP differentiated by TB3, better graphics and Touch Bar. MBA and nTB get consolidated into a single model.

 

[manu chao]

So my guess is the MacBook Air gets replaced with a Whiskey Lake-U MacBook Escape for $1,099-ish. It'll have worse graphics than the current model, but twice the CPU cores. Possibly an extra-weird $999 model with 4 GB RAM. Leave the 256 GB SSD a $200 upgrade. Makes the graphics on those machines worse, but the CPU otherwise much better, and cuts overall pricing by $200. And call it the 13-inch MacBook.

I haven't found the exact name of the integrated graphics on the 15-W TDP U-series Whiskey Lake chips. I know the one in Kaby Lake Refresh is inferior to the one in the still-current 13" MBP escape (Kaby Lake).

 

[bluecoast]

Yeah, in addition to the $1,799 MBP quad-cores there’s also the rMB dual-cores sitting there at $1,299.

I don’t see how that $1,299 can hold, unless the $999 MBA follow-on doesn’t have a Retina display on the base model. My thought is we could see 1920x1200 IPS, with Retina starting at $1,149-1,199.

There’s a lot of ground to cover between a new $999 machine and the $1,799 MBP, and a slightly larger SSD and the Touch Bar aren’t worth $800. That’s why I think the $999 model has to be less than Retina, and dual-core. And no TB3.

Then you’d a have $999 + $150-200 Retina upgrade + $200 quad upgrade + $200 for 128GB—>256 SSD upgrade and be getting to $1,799 MBP territory. MBP differentiated by TB3, better graphics and Touch Bar. MBA and nTB get consolidated into a single model.

I never thought of the entry level new MBA having a better screen than it currently does, but a non retina one - great call!

Do you know any PC models that have the kind of screen that you're thinking about?

Thanks!

 

[SeaFox]

"compared to a 5-year-old PC". Why would you compare a new system to one from 5 years ago!?

Wouldn't that be most accurate when comparing these chips to most of Apple's current computer lineup.

ZING!

 

[bluecoast]

Wouldn't that be most accurate when comparing these chips to most of Apple's current computer lineup.

ZING!

Ouch...

 

[Appleaker]

To be found in 2020 Macs.

Actually both will be found in 2018 Macs in a few months.
But thats probably true for 10nm chips at this rate.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Sadly these chips don't have hardware fixes for Spectre/Meltdown.

Unless you think that your laptop (these are Macbook, Macbook Air chips; not servers) is going to be the victim of a targeted attack against you personally then what difference does the Spectre/Meltdown issue have regarding these chips?

 

[manu chao]

USB 3 for the MBA now it’s built into the processor is almost a given. I don’t think we’ll be getting USB 2 though (the port will likely be too big for the sort of chassis that Apple wants to ship).

Do you mean USB-C when you say 'USB 3' and USB-A when you say 'USB 2'?
Because the current MBA already has USB 3 (via two USB-A ports), plus one TB2 port.

 

[Smeaton1724]

I think we'll see:
12'' Macbook - 2 ports - 2 USB-C only, no thunderbolt 3, no headphone. Dual core. 8/128 starting at 999.
13/14'' Macbook - 3 ports - 2 USB-C only, 1 USB-C/Thunderbolt 3, no headphone. Dual core. 8/128 starting at 1299.

As for the speed comparison to 5 year old machines, instead of thinking of just speed think of the typical form factor of 5 years ago - these will be fanless thin and light machines with all day battery life. Progress has gone into efficiency and size and weight reduction.

 

[dilbert99]

Because 5 years is the average replacement cycle for PCs.

No they use 5 year old pcs because 10-15% better doesn't sell compared to 100% faster.

 

[Dave245]

I think we'll see:
12'' Macbook - 2 ports - 2 USB-C only, no thunderbolt 3, no headphone. Dual core. 8/128 starting at 999.
13/14'' Macbook - 3 ports - 2 USB-C only, 1 USB-C/Thunderbolt 3, no headphone. Dual core. 8/128 starting at 1299.

As for the speed comparison to 5 year old machines, instead of thinking of just speed think of the typical form factor of 5 years ago - these will be fanless thin and light machines with all day battery life. Progress has gone into efficiency and size and weight reduction.

Mark Gurman says it’s a MacBook Air with Retina disaply and thinner bezels. I don’t think it will be a MacBook in different sizes.

 

[Smeaton1724]

Mark Gurman says it’s a MacBook Air with Retina disaply and thinner bezels. I don’t think it will be a MacBook in different sizes.

I was presuming the MacBook and MacBook Air product lines were to merge into a single category with 2 products - 12 and 13/14 (I say 13/14 as multiple rumors of those sizes have surfaced this year). Either branded as MacBook or branded under Air.

For marketing purposes having 1 product as MacBook, 1 product as Air, 2 products as Pro - it’s just messy. Personally I’d like to see the Air branding for the laptops - Air 12/14 and Pro 13/15 would bring a clarity to the product line.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Great, I’ll look forward to seeing them in Apples product line in 2030.

 

[Dave245]

I was presuming the MacBook and MacBook Air product lines were to merge into a single category with 2 products - 12 and 13/14. Either branded as MacBook or branded under Air.

Oh ok, the last thing i read about it was Gurman's tweet where he said "Get ready for a retina MacBook Air with thinner bezels" it will be interesting to see how they position it because the 12" MacBook already exists, the problem is that the 12" MacBook is expensive when you consider that for a couple of hundred more you can get the 13" MacBook Pro with touch bar. The MacBook Air needs to be something in-between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro in terms of specs and price. People still love and buy the Air even now especially students and general consumers because not everyone needs the high specs but at the same time the general consumer may feel like the 12" screen is too small.

 

[gwales123]

barely anyone upgrades their personal pcs sooner than that nowadays.
in fact, i know most of my friends have macbooks/laptops from 2012-2013 and have no intention of upgrading.
I am in my late 20s.

Still using my Mac Mini 2011. Great little beastie. I was able to swap out the RAM back then...

 

[Zdigital2015]

Nah. The models lack Iris Plus.

At this point, unless Apple and Intel have a super secret CPU waiting for the rollout, which they very well might, I think we may end up with UHD 620 Graphics in the 13” MacBook. There has not been so much as a peep about Iris Plus variants.

 

[itguy06]

Wonder if they will finally catch up to AMD.

 

[mschmalenbach]

14nm still? No buy until node shrink.

Why should that matter?

 

[kiranmk2]

I think the repeated delays to 10 nm chips has really thrown Apple. I believe that the 2016 MBP design was unveiled with the idea of moving to Cannon Lake 10 nm chips within a year allowing big improvements in battery life and less critical cooling issues. Similarly I think an rMB redesign hinged on the cooler 10 nm chips and now they've been delayed (again) if the rMB is updated to Amber Lake it will probably retain the current design and single USB-C port (although it should now support USB 3.1 gen 2) - still no TB3 though...

 

[uller6]

My Sony laptop is 10 years old. I still use it and it still works. Can you believe it?

Core 2 Duo T9900 3.06 GHz with 8 GB RAM. If I could set up this machine to allow remote access with my iPad, I would probably keep it for another 5 years.

Try iTeleport connect (https://www.iteleportmobile.com/connect) I use it for Remote Desktop between my iPad/iPhone to my Mac at home. It also works with windows machines.

 

[Piggie]

Oh how I remember stories such as this.....

https://www.geek.com/chips/intel-predicts-10ghz-chips-by-2011-564808/

Anyone else remember these articles and looking forward to things ahead, only, like me to feel bitterly disappointed

 

[uller6]

Does anyone remember back to the good old PPC days when we had two laptop lines, consumer and pro, with two sizes each, big and small? I suspect Apple might be heading back that direction: 12” and 14” MacBooks and 13” and 15” MacBook pros. I expect this “MacBook Air replacement” to be a bigger MacBook that replaces both the MBA and the nTb MBP. The 12” MacBook will drop to $1099, while the new 14” will start at $1299.

 

[mschmalenbach]

Can someone please educate me on the die size issue Intel are having.

There MUST be more to it than just how easy one company can make one type of chip with one size of track and another company can't made a different chip with another track size.

By that I mean, ok. Everyone is saying how hopeless Intel are with their 14nm tech, whilst others are at 9 or 7 or looking to go even lower.
But it's can't just be that easy,

What I mean is. Say Samsung or TSM are doing 7nm chips.
Intel can't just send their cpu design over to either of these and say "hey guys, you can do 7nm, make us some please"

I presume they would struggle/fail just as much as Intel is if they tried it.

Can anyone educate me and everyone else here, by explaining this simply?

It’s a horribly complicated thing and Intel is saying nothing much about it.

Apparently it relates to Intel’s choice to use a different metal - cobalt - in part of its processing, which has apparently resulted in significant heat and reliability issues, and wide variances in the standards of chips being produced. Variations are wide from wafer batch to wafer batch, perhaps even wafer to wafer. This makes for lower yields, and yields are critical in semiconductor manufacturing. Throw in the reliability & heat issues and you have a lot of damaging liabilities being stored up... best thing to do is simply not ship... especially if the performance has to be dialed down to manage heat problems...

You can’t simply take your layout design and send it to a different fab. The layout has to conform to electrical and layout design rules, which requires extensive simulations to check before you commit to spending $80 million or more for the mask set needed to manufacture at these sizes or process nodes. That means the same digital circuit can easily have a different physical layout even for 2 different fabs running at the same size/process node... even without one using a different metal in part of its process.

https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/f293/intel-10nm-process-problems-my-thoughts-subject-10535.html

 

[Smeaton1724]

Does anyone remember back to the good old PPC days when we had two laptop lines, consumer and pro, with two sizes each, big and small? I suspect Apple might be heading back that direction: 12” and 14” MacBooks and 13” and 15” MacBook pros. I expect this “MacBook Air replacement” to be a bigger MacBook that replaces both the MBA and the nTb MBP. The 12” MacBook will drop to $1099, while the new 14” will start at $1299.

That’s pretty much what I put above. To me it makes so much sense to go back to that. 2 lines, big and small. They do it with iMacs, Watches and the Pro’s.