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Intel Announces Thunderbolt 3 With USB-C, Single-Cable Support for Dual 4K Displays at 60Hz

keifer.street said:
Neat. 40Gb/sec (5GB/sec). All through a USB-C cable.

We can offically transfer data faster with external I/O cables than we can physically write it to any known hard drive.

Even the new PCI-E 3.0 bus SSD drives can't write data that fast.

This will be great for high end cameras, monitors and any thing that 'streams' data, but it will have limited benefit for speeds when transferring 'persistent' data as the HD bus speed/write speed is now the bottleneck.
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With these specs, will you be able to power an external gfx without speed loss?
 
jent said:
Honestly this is kind of confusing to me. I don't fully understand what is referencing the port and what is referencing the connection protocol.
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USB-C is the plug. Yeah, it would make more sense if it was called "Uniplug" or something... although "Universal Serial Bus" would be a good name for it if it wasn't already taken. The point is, whereas in the past different connections had very different electrical requirements, nowadays virtually everything is packet-based digital signals over twisted-pair cables, and controller chips are smart enough to sense what is connected to them, so there's no need for special plugs.

USB2, USB3, USB3.1, DisplayPort, Thunderbolt1/2/3 are the communications protocols. More might get added.

Thunderbolt is itself a 'wrapper' for the PCIe protocol (as used on internal expansion busses in PCs) - most Thunderbolt peripherals consist of a Thunderbolt controller and an internal PCIe bus, onto which various devices (disc controllers, extra USB controllers, Ethernet interfaces etc.) can be connected using the same sort of controller chips that would be used inside a PC.

All USB-C ports will be compatible with USB3/3.1 devices (even if they don't do max speed). Probably, most USB-C ports on computers/mobile devices will also offer DisplayPort if it makes sense to plug them into a display (we'll see).

Thunderbolt support may turn out to be limited to higher-end computers, since USB3.1 speeds are more than adequate for most "consumer" applications. If you don't want to connect a 100G Ethernet interface, a large RAID setup, specialist A/V equipment, an external GPU or an ultra-fast PCIe solid-state-drive then you probably won't need to worry about thunderbolt, and what 'low cost' TB devices there are might start to die out with TB1&2. However, potentially (subject to non-obvious technical hurdles), it might be possible for Thunderbolt 3 peripherals to 'fall back' to USB3.1 mode so they'd still work on non-TB USB-C ports.

Once trick USB-C has over old-school Thunderbolt 1 and 2 connectors is that it can physically allocate different pairs of wires to different protocols. So you can mix USB 3 and DisplayPort on the same cable, with only a passive adapter at the other end to sort out the signals. TB1&2 was all or nothing: the connector was either all Thunderbolt or all DisplayPort. However, TB can *also* embed DisplayPort "logically" in the signal - but you need a TB controller at the receiving end to extract that. So I think the real confusion is going to come when you start mixing USB-C, Thunderbolt and DisplayPort, because there are multiple ways it could go.
 
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Dorje Sylas said:
Let the dongle-ception begin... again (like when USB 1.0 made the rounds). I know at the least I will be seeing teachers I know plugging a MiniDisplay to VGA, into a USB-C(TB3) to MiniDisplay, because VGA is what the physical cable runs in the bloody walls of schools are. Sure eventually there may be USB-C to VGA adapters, but for at least a few years it's going to be dongles into dongles.
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Like this?
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multiport-adapter
 
EnesM said:
It was mentioned, read again. What was NOT mentioned was HDMI 2.0a, which is worrying. Intel's Alpine Ridge controller was supposed to support it. But on that graph I see all technologies except HDMI :((

Does that mean HDMI won't run through USB-C port?
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I think you could just use an adapter.
 
CausticPuppy said:
it shows why Apple shifted to a single port type
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And I'm wondering if that's one reason why Apple included just one port on the new Macbook. It got a lot of attention in the press simply because of the fact there was only one. It made a very loud statement (even though it was a less useful configuration than having multiple ports).
 
I think the reason why DP1.3 isn't mentioned is because the USB Type-C connector already supports DP1.3 as one of the alternate modes. What this announcement is referring to is the DP-over-Thunderbolt support that was present in TB2. That's what allowed you to chain TB devices and displays together. DP lets you only chain displays. So, assuming they don't incorporate DP1.3 into TB3, what this means is that you can chain multiple DP 1.3 monitors via the USB-C connector but if you mix TB and displays on the same chain, then it will only support DP 1.2. I suspect that's a tradeoff they may be willing to make since it's likely that the computers which can drive multiple 5K monitors will also be the ones with multiple USB-C ports.
 
By the time I get enough money to buy a Thunderbolt peripheral, it won't even be compatible with my computer without an adapter. The tech world really sort of expects you to update every single thing you own every two years! Sure, you can always get adapters, but if you're paying extra money to shave 0.1mm of your new iPad, then a big $25 adapter will probably annoy you at least a little bit. We live in a time when you pretty much can never plug anything into something without first doing some research and adapter shopping. The sheer number of times I've been told to connect something to a computer, and it was almost impossible on the spot due to the two devices being purchased 6 months apart.

Gotta plug a projector into your computer? The projector has VGA and HDMI, your mac has DisplayPort. Or DVI. Or MiniDVI. Need an adapter NOW? Your local shop probably doesn't have VGA to mini DVI. Order online! Oh that takes 2 days. No matter what you do you're screwed.

Hopefully USB C is solving this right now, by making one plug for everything. Unless 1 year from now, they come up with USB D for the new MacBook Mini that's too thin for USB C.
 
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BuCkDoG said:
Ok so after seeing this announcement, I am now officially waiting for next years rMBP. It will come with Skylakes upgraded CPU's and upgraded iGPUs plus it should come with hopefully a much better dGPU with maybe 14 nm which would be the newest architecture change in almost 3 years. :)
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You may be in for a long wait.
Intel seems to have moved to some sort of weird Dance of the Seven Veils model of releasing CPUs which allows them to get lots of press while delaying things forever. Chips are "announced" then three months later "launched" then six months later "shipped". All launch means is "here are the model numbers and prices".
Broadwell-M was launched in mid 2014, and you couldn't buy anything worthwhile using it until what, Feb or so 2015. Meaning
- the quad-core i7 Broadwell's launched today may be available in bulk some time in November. Which suggests why Apple launched their very minor rMBP speed bumps two weeks ago.
- Skylake has barely hit stage one of this hype machine yet. All we have is a name (and how super incredibly awesome it is going to be, way more awesome than anything earlier). Even when we get to "announced" stage, all that will mean is nine months till the low-power mobile parts ship. Then the dual core laptop parts. ONLY THEN the quad-core laptop parts. Good luck getting a Skylake rMBP before 2017.
 
BigBeast said:
This is where the "get the computer you need at the time you need it" mantra, often supported here, loses traction. Sorry for those that bought the newest generation MBPs. You're still in the return window though.
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Not really. If you knew you needed TB3 then you wouldn't have just bought a machine. We all knew it was coming with skylake.
 
I think I'll wait until Thunderbolt supports DisplayPort 1.3 & PCIe 4 (when it comes out). My current computers suit my needs for now.

I also wonder if Apple will replace the lightning connector on its iDevices with ThunderBolt 3? It'll piss off a lot of accessory users, though. I also wonder if/when Apple will ditch the headphone jack. That seems to be the biggest port now. Have people use BlueTooth headphones, and Apple could shave off a few more millimeters. Yay, thinness! (That was sarcasm.)
 
Great news that Thunderbolt 3 will use the USB-C connector rather than the mini-DisplayPort connector! I'm deeply disappointed that Thunderbolt 3 will not support DisplayPort 1.3, which is the main feature I was looking forward to.

It's also nice to be vindicated in having said all along that Thunderbolt 3 would work with Broadwell. I took a lot of heat for that on this forum from people who insisted that Thunderbolt 3 would work only with Skylake (and later) CPUs.
 
Gotta wait for the new USB type D
  • No visible port. Just markings to locate it.
  • Inductive power transfer
  • Optical data transfer (microscopic laser-burned holes to let light thru casing, like old-MB leds)
  • Magnetically held connector, circular shape (360° rotation)

and then USB type Air
  • no connector, all wireless
  • resonant energy transfer (few foots in V1.0 , room-level in 1.1, floor-lvl in 1.2 ...)
  • li-fi & wi-fi data transfer
  • nfc & ble pairing

o_O:D
 
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They day we move to NO connectors, will be the best day ever... Way to many ports, adapters, etc. Everyone should be focusing on better wireless technologies not wired... :-D
 
Much better to have one uniform standard than two competing standards IMO. Peripherals manufacturers must be overjoyed.
 
Well this sounds like the best thing ever. I really hope this gets adopted quickly and universally. How cool would it be to have a single small reversible port for everything.

I will be holding off upgrading my MBA until this is onboard a new slightly slimmer 13" rMBP. I can wait :)
 
MacRumors said:



Intel today at Computex 2015 unveiled Thunderbolt 3 with a USB Type-C connector, instead of Mini DisplayPort, and support for USB 3.1, DisplayPort 1.2 and PCI Express 3.0, as outlined by Ars Technica. The new spec's Thunderbolt transport layer provides up to 40Gbps throughput, double the max bandwidth of Thunderbolt 2, alongside an optional 100 watts of power for charging devices in accordance with the USB Power Delivery spec, or 15 watts of power without USB PD.
Thunderbolt-3-Intel-800x450.jpg

Thunderbolt 3 is capable of driving up to two 4K external displays at 60Hz or a single 5K display at 60Hz running off a single cable. Dell and other manufacturers currently use a dual-cable solution for most 4K and 5K external displays, since the current DisplayPort/Thunderbolt spec does not provide enough bandwidth to drive the high-resolution monitors. Thunderbolt 3 also supports more protocols than any other I/O controller, making it compatible with virtually any dock, device or display.

Intel expects initial products with Thunderbolt 3 to start shipping before the end of this year, and ramp up in 2016. Thunderbolt 3 is rumored to launch alongside Intel's next-generation Skylake chips, succeeding the Broadwell line, later this year, and the new spec could theoretically be included in Skylake-based Macs that could possibly be released in late 2015. Refreshed Macs would likely gain USB-C ports integrated with Thunderbolt 3 as an all-in-one solution.

Article Link: Intel Announces Thunderbolt 3 With USB-C, Single-Cable Support for Dual 4K Displays at 60Hz
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So which port will win? USB-C or Thunderbolt ?
 
dannys1 said:
No where near, its "Gigabit" as the name suggests. Thunderbolt 1 is 10gigabit, Thunderbolt 2 20... It enables me to copy from one Mac to another at faster than the the SSD's can even operate inside them (Thunderbolt 2 to 2 allows me to max out the new Samsung SSDs in the 13" and 15" machines in target disk mode...impossible with USB 3.1, 3, or any other connection type, by a long way)
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Oh, I see. Well then that makes sense.
 
Hopefully this'll pave the way for more 5K screens in other sizes. I'm really hoping for a 40" 5K display. That would be spot on for my requirements.
 
imamacperson said:
So which port will win? USB-C or Thunderbolt ?
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Well, Thunderbolt's problem was that it was great for connecting external PCIe devices, high speed disc arrays and specialist A/V equipment for uses where USB3 just doesn't cut the mustard, but just too darned expensive for everyday external drives etc. which didn't need TBs extra speed.

Since computer makers (especially on laptops and SFF systems) will no longer have to decide whether to give valuable port space to USB3 or Thunderbolt (...and you get extra USB3 controllers into the bargain) this might allow Thunderbolt to concentrate on its strengths.

So, maybe both of them.

But Superman would still beat Batman unless Batman had Kryptonite.
 
So this is why Apple hasn't come out with their new Thunderbolt Display yet! Give me a 5K Thunderbolt 3.0 display with a built in rear hub with lots of connectors for under $1500 and we have a deal!

Just give me an iMac with like eight of these in a neat little 4x2 grid, LOL. I don't even care if I need adapters at first, this is cool. I feel like Thunderbolt might actually become more of a thing now. This combines the best of everything and I don't really see any downsides aside from USB needing to take off some more, which it will since it's USB and everywhere. Finally a small, sturdy, double-sided connector that everyone can use!

Hopefully Apple sucks it up and puts these on iOS devices. This is the future. It just sucks that it's so close to the Lightning connector launch almost three years ago. Was hoping to at least get 7-8 out of it! Although I don't see people using connectors anymore in products. We used to dock our phones for music, now we just use Bluetooth. We use AirPlay to send video, not cables in many circumstances. I'm hoping we'll see this in the iPad Pro so that we could potentially hook up certain accessories with apps that have a USB SDK implemented.
 
This is awesome. I'm hoping for a redesign of the Pro that's just USB-C, it would also be extremely cool if it had 2-4 ports and charging was possible through all ports. I see a 5K Display with a single connector in the future.

It'll also be nice because it means charging through new TB docks too.

Thunderbolt 3 is still not powerful enough for any real external video card I believe, which is too bad. I'd love a TB dock with a PCIe port for a video card. All the power of a desktop when at my desktop and all the convenience of a portable when I need it.

One day, I suppose.
 
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