Intel Core 2 Duo Chips Announced

[Kane.Elson]

You might want to make that til Tuesday September 12 when the Paris Apple Expo opens with an Apple keynote.

Yeah, I meant around that time. I'm not going to order it on midnight august 31st 😛
It's just painfull thinking about all the goodies coming out soon.

 

[Lollypop]

I would really like to se a mid range mac, not really fond of the illustrations above but the extra expansion of the pro line would be apreciated but at a more affordable price. I use a few older powermacs for servers but I really would like something with a bit more processing power... 😀 and something with a bit more longevity, something like a nice new Core 2 Duo Extreme! LOL

 

[inkswamp]

gnasher729, thanks for taking the time to explain that. I had to read it twice, but I get it.

So it seems that in many ways we're getting the best of the G5 and the best of Intel with the Core 2 Duo chips. As these kinds of things unfold, Apple's decision to switch to Intel chips makes more and more sense. They probably knew where Intel was going. Interesting.

 

[borisadmin]

Just to clarify a few things...
Merom uses the same amount of power essentially per MHz as Yonah. However, it is 20% more efficient than Yonah is. So while putting Merom into any of the current machines will NOT make them cooler or use less power than the Yonah versions, they will all:

1 - Be approximately 20% faster at the same MHz rating.
2 - Have 64-bit capability.
3 - Have enhanced SSE (closer to AltiVec than previous Intel chips.)

Some of the Merom chips also have twice the L2 cache (4 MB vs. 2 MB) which would also increase speeds, but the other items above are more important in the grand scheme of things.

Ensoniq, thanks so much for the useful corrections. How significant do you think that 64-bit capability will be in the future compared to not having it(say, 2-3 years time)?

 

[TangoCharlie]

How good are your soldering skills?

Can I swop the Merom with the Yonah in my MB?

No. Not unless you're extremely handy with a soldering iron!

 

[TangoCharlie]

Improved SpeedStep technology....

Ensoniq, thanks so much for the useful corrections. How significant do you think that 64-bit capability will be in the future compared to not having it(say, 2-3 years time)?

AFAIK, the Merom CPUs have an improved SpeedStep technology, so that
on average the heat generation may infact be lower for Merom.

 

[rosalindavenue]

I am waiting until the new MBP is released with merom. I don't care if it's now or in January.

My question is: What's the fastest way to get the new MBP into my hands? Is ordering it online after it's announcement the fastest, or going to an apple store?

I live within 3 stores. So I can play the call and place one on hold bit.

I'd think you would have a better chance to get one fast with the stores. I don't live near one and I ordered an ibook last August when it was upgraded-- even with expedited shipping it still took 10 days to arrive from China. (Apple refunded the expedited shipping fee).

 

[Willis]

gnasher729, thanks for taking the time to explain that. I had to read it twice, but I get it.

So it seems that in many ways we're getting the best of the G5 and the best of Intel with the Core 2 Duo chips. As these kinds of things unfold, Apple's decision to switch to Intel chips makes more and more sense. They probably knew where Intel was going. Interesting.

*sigh* REMEMBER! Apple said they were changing in June 06 at the last WWDC. Even though Intel are just annoucing now, im sure if apple was waiting, they might of 'bumped' it up a notch.

Ah well, at least we have some good products now. i cant imagine still looking at a powerbook and ibook still for sale.

 

[gnasher729]

Ensoniq, thanks so much for the useful corrections. How significant do you think that 64-bit capability will be in the future compared to not having it(say, 2-3 years time)?

64 bit is required for applications that need more than four GB of memory. For other things, it is nice to have, but not required. If you buy a MacBook today, you wouldn't be able to put more than 4 GB of memory in it for the next few years anyway, so in that respect it doesn't matter much whether you have a Yonah or Merom chip. For everything else, 64 bit software might run a bit faster than 32 bit software on a 64 bit chip, but it is not essential. So I think applications will ship as 32 bit or as combined 32/64 bit applications for quite some time.

The question for the developers would be: If I switch to 64 bit exclusively, so my code runs ten percent faster on Core 2 Duo, but 1-2 million Macintosh users cannot use it at all, how many sales will I gain because it is faster, and how many sales will I lose because 2 million people cannot use it? Three years from now, the answer will still be that you lose more sales running 64 bit only.

 

[gnasher729]

AFAIK, the Merom CPUs have an improved SpeedStep technology, so that
on average the heat generation may infact be lower for Merom.

Do you have any links that describe Merom's SpeedStep compared to Yonah's? I thought Yonah's was quite good, allowing you to reduce both clock speed and voltage simultaneously. It is always a problem with Intel, they say "improved SpeedStep", but they never tell you "improved compared to what".

 

[berkleeboy210]

Looking forward to WWDC! Unfortunately I'll be returning home on a plane while the Keynote is going on.

At MacWorld when Steve announced the MacBook Pro's I literally fell off a chair. Here's hoping that the Plane won't do the same thing if the Pilot's are Mac Nuts! 😀

 

[borisadmin]

The question for the developers would be: If I switch to 64 bit exclusively, so my code runs ten percent faster on Core 2 Duo, but 1-2 million Macintosh users cannot use it at all, how many sales will I gain because it is faster, and how many sales will I lose because 2 million people cannot use it? Three years from now, the answer will still be that you lose more sales running 64 bit only.

Thanks heaps gnasher729, that's exactly the kind of perspective I was looking for! I'll wait until WWDC to see if there's a bump, but I need to upgrade my PB G4 12" because the optical drive has broken, so I think I'll get a Macbook then regardless.

 

[milo]

Apple had better step its game up compared to the prices/specs rumored last week.

That list was probably something some random guy threw together, it didn't come from a real source and AI only posted it because it's been floating around (saying they didn't believe it).

Actually I like the one with 2 slots. Perfect for all those people wanting 2 drives. 🙂

But it would make way more sense to lose the "slot" and go with a standard tray loading drive. It's very impractical to give users the ability to add an optical drive...but require it to be a laptop model.

you can't make a statement like that. that's like saying "i hate general electric air conditioners." what the heck? all CPU's (and air conditioners) do the same thing.

You don't think there's a significant difference between different models of CPU? 😱

How about Mac Midi?

I've thought about Mac Mid, but just doesn't seem quite right. Mac Midi is funny, but would confuse music guys (unless it actually had midi ports).

So if the new iMacs are using 64-bit merom or conroe chips, what is the likelihood of them offering 4Mb of RAM?

Current macs can handle 4 gigs of ram, if you get the expensive 2 gig chips. 32 bit limits you to 4 gig, doubt iMacs will handle more than that for a while.

 

[Snowy_River]

You da man Dan 😀 I'd definetly hit one of your super sized macminis. Now if Apple was to fit those specs in a regular iMac, would make for a great little machine.

Hey, how about the Mac Grande? Or Mac Venti?

 

[Grokgod]

What I am really interesting is in wether the new chip will be COOLER in the MBP's than whats in it now.

Anyone have any specs as to compare the two chips and the heat that they produce in the MBP's.

These things have got to get cooler!

Or at least a plastic something to cover the ALU so that you can type on them>

Does the pCheese world have this problem with HOT! palm rest?

They never seem to over at FRys electronics

 

[Multimedia]

Cooler Won't Be Known Until We See What The New Design Does

What I am really interesting is in wether the new chip will be COOLER in the MBP's than whats in it now.

Anyone have any specs as to compare the two chips and the heat that they produce in the MBP's.

These things have got to get cooler!

Or at least a plastic something to cover the ALU so that you can type on them>

Does the pCheese world have this problem with HOT! palm rest?

They never seem to over at FRys electronics

Unknown 'til we see how the new design performs. Merom draws the same power as Yonah so on paper it is not cooler but is 20% faster at computing at the same clock speed. MBP need redesigns to get cooler and to allow user easy swap of the HDs. 😉

 

[Soba]

you can't make a statement like that. that's like saying "i hate general electric air conditioners." what the heck? all CPU's (and air conditioners) do the same thing.

I'm not sure if this was intended as some kind of throwaway comment or not, but this is not even remotely true.

The original poster said he hated the P4, and honestly, the P4 was a lousy chip design from day 1. The original Pentium 4 chips released about 5 1/2 years ago were outperformed in some instances by an original Pentium chip running at 166MHz. The Pentium 4 was an awful architecture in many respects that simply could not be cleaned up enough to be viable; that would be why Intel abandoned it and based its current designs on the Pentium Pro's core (which was really a very decent server chip in the nineties).

When Apple announced last year they were going with Intel, a lot of people agreed it was a good choice based on the current state of the PowerPC architecture and based on Intel's planned chip designs. Personally, I was a bit unsure at the time, but was optimistic about the switch and figured we could scarcely do much worse than sticking with the G5, which was languishing. Turning back the clock a bit, if instead of releasing the G5, Apple had announced a switch to Intel in 2003, I would have thought they were crazy. Intel's chips were awful at that time and there wasn't much of a light at the end of the tunnel, either.

CPUs can be very, very different even if the overall system architecture is similar. And I side with the original poster. The P4 was a dog, and thankfully it is about to be buried forever.

 

[ed233]

Do you have any links that describe Merom's SpeedStep compared to Yonah's? I thought Yonah's was quite good, allowing you to reduce both clock speed and voltage simultaneously. It is always a problem with Intel, they say "improved SpeedStep", but they never tell you "improved compared to what".

I was able to find this about Conroe's implementation, which sounds fairly impressive:
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3620036

The Conroe core includes support for Intel SpeedStep technology, and in an attempt to lower power and heat requirements, it emulates a mobile processor by lowering the multiplier when idle or in low usage. In the case of the Core 2 Extreme and Duo processors we reviewed, that amounted to a 1.6 GHz clock speed at idle. The Conroe can immediately fire up at full speed and match the system load. Core voltages can also be lowered through similar techniques, such as Intelligent Power Capability, which can turn computing functions on and off when needed, in order to fully maximize power efficiency.

 

[merk850]

Just bought 20" iMac......

I am a new Mac owner. I just bought my new 20 " iMac and I am learing aout the upcomming conference and possible new product releases. I
Would appreciate any thoughts on my question.

I am considering returning the new 20" I just bought in the 14 day period and taking the 10% hit and waitning to see if the iMac gets updated and I will repurchase. What is the likelyhood that the version I have will be updated. I would be bummed if I just bought it and I am at the end of a cycle. The $160 fee would actuallly be worth it to me to get thte latest. I would have to return it prior to the conference to stay within the 14 days but i may not want to loose out on lthe chance to get the latest.

Any thoughts on this 20 " model be increased with a new processor??

Thanks,

New Mac owner.....

 

[Snowy_River]

Dan=='s mockup is something that I had considered before, I remember talking about it with Yvan 256 at some point as something like "the return of the Cube." I think it's a pretty good design, the guts of the Mini are so packed as it is, an expanded case would allow for a substantial upgrade in components, including the oft clamored for dedicated GPU.

Another way Apple could do it is just to elongate the Mini's case to make it just as svelte vertically, only slightly wider. Could you take a run at that one Dan==? 😉

Okay, I did some tinkering myself, just for kicks, and here's what I came up with. I thought that we were talking about a computer that was somewhere between a Mac Mini and a Mac Pro (Power Mac), so I thought, maybe the style should be a combination of the two. Let me know what you think.

It's not a Mac Plus... It's a Mac++!

 

[Grokgod]

merk850

dont take it back.

I dont think that the difference will be that much, with the new systems.

If your happy with its performance then keep it.
A mild CPU boost isnt all that, and I doubt that the video cards will be upped that much.

I wouldnt take the hit in money lost, cause you can always sell it later down the line and get the lastest and greatest thats really a must buy.

 

[fastlane1588]

Okay, I did some tinkering myself, just for kicks, and here's what I came up with. I thought that we were talking about a computer that was somewhere between a Mac Mini and a Mac Pro (Power Mac), so I thought, maybe the style should be a combination of the two. Let me know what you think.

It's not a Mac Plus... It's a Mac++!

thats pretty nice what did u use to make that?

 

[Willis]

Okay, I did some tinkering myself, just for kicks, and here's what I came up with. I thought that we were talking about a computer that was somewhere between a Mac Mini and a Mac Pro (Power Mac), so I thought, maybe the style should be a combination of the two. Let me know what you think.

It's not a Mac Plus... It's a Mac++!

can you say "G4 Cube"?

 

[Fabio_gsilva]

Thanks, and yes, me too. I just hope they do something to fill that headless hole between the mini and pro. And I hope the innards are more accessible than the mini.

A headless iMac would be very nice to mee, indeed. I own a Mini, so I don't want to throw my keyboard, mouse and display right now... And I don't have enough money to replace them now too.

 

[Multimedia]

Return the Core Duo 20" iMac & Get The Core 2 Duo Model Instead

I am a new Mac owner. I just bought my new 20 " iMac and I am learing aout the upcomming conference and possible new product releases. I
Would appreciate any thoughts on my question.

I am considering returning the new 20" I just bought in the 14 day period and taking the 10% hit and waitning to see if the iMac gets updated and I will repurchase. What is the likelyhood that the version I have will be updated. I would be bummed if I just bought it and I am at the end of a cycle. The $160 fee would actuallly be worth it to me to get thte latest. I would have to return it prior to the conference to stay within the 14 days but i may not want to loose out on lthe chance to get the latest.

Any thoughts on this 20 " model be increased with a new processor??

Thanks,

New Mac owner.....

merk850

dont take it back.

I dont think that the difference will be that much, with the new systems.

If your happy with its performance then keep it.
A mild CPU boost isnt all that, and I doubt that the video cards will be upped that much.

I wouldnt take the hit in money lost, cause you can always sell it later down the line and get the lastest and greatest thats really a must buy.

I respectfully disagree. I say take it back and be ready for a much faster iMac Core 2 Duo. You want the latest, take it back. It won't be the latest for many more weeks. Core 2 Duo will be the latest for two more years.