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Intel Launches Heavily Biased 'PC vs. Mac' Comparison Website

I really don't mean to argue with you Mr. Maximara, but all these developers and studio companies, it's not fair to them to have to raise massive costs just in order to employ ARM coders. In the end & in the long term there will not be enough applications for ARM Macs.

And to have a laugh at Blackberry which I've been dying to do lol, I seem to recall Blackberry creating a Desktop Application Platform to sync thier cell phones, they were pretty successful during their little market bubble, and it seems that Apple never caught up to the advantageous chase.
 
Alan Wynn said:
They are respecting their customers needs. They are building machines that are faster, quieter, cooler, and run longer on battery. Your argument seems to be that they would serve their customers best by ignoring the needs of the vast majority of their customers to support a tiny number dependent on abandoned applications. If these applications were in viable market segments, there would be current products that support them. Saying we need to still support 16 bit x86 applications like Windows does is a waste of limited resources does not serve their customers well.
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I still remember when people derided GUIs because they were so use to command lines. Yet GUI is effectively the rule with command lines the exception. This type of change happens in all industries; it's just more visible with computers because progress is so fast.

I did a thesis on the state of museum computerization (early 1990s). My thesis on museum computerization was turned into a presentation behalf of my university and was insanely popular as I showed how with off the shelf software one could effectively the same thing as niche software companies wanted $10,000 minimum for. Odds are with a little bit of time modern off the shelf software will do the same as that niche stuff that should have joined the Dodo that one is still holding on to.

It's like my father who put $1000+ into a car only worth $600; after a while holding on something that old becomes problematic.
 
Maximara said:
That is not how things are supposed to work. While overly simplistic Yankee Dood It (1956) pointed out "a manufacturer who sticks to old equipment cannot compete, and must fail. To survive, he must persuade people to risk savings in his business. He can then buy new equipment, increase production, and show a profit."
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You'll see time will tell
 
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Maximara said:
I still remember when people derided GUIs because they were so use to command lines. Yet GUI is effectively the rule with command lines the exception. This type of change happens in all industries; it's just more visible with computers because progress is so fast.
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It's not fair to exclude the developers who don't have the resources Steve Jobs would admit that
 
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xxspirit4musicx said:
I really don't mean to argue with you Mr. Maximara, but all these developers and studio companies, it's not fair to them to have to raise massive costs just in order to employ ARM coders. In the end & in the long term there will not be enough applications for ARM Macs.
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It's not hard to compile existing software for AS. The fact that Rosetta 2 can full-auto convert most programs says a lot.
 
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xxspirit4musicx said:
I really don't mean to argue with you Mr. Maximara, but all these developers and studio companies, it's not fair to them to have to raise massive costs just in order to employ ARM coders. In the end & in the long term there will not be enough applications for ARM Macs.

And to have a laugh at Blackberry which I've been dying to do lol, I seem to recall Blackberry creating a Desktop Application Platform to sync thier cell phones, they were pretty successful during their little market bubble, and it seems that Apple never caught up to the advantageous chase.
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WTF are “arm coders?”

Unless they are coding in assembly language, and they are not, they are not “arm coders.”

In almost all cases, all that is needed is a re-compile.
 
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The thing about creation applications is true till Adobe releases all creative suite apps for Apple Silicon
 
xxspirit4musicx said:
I really don't mean to argue with you Mr. Maximara, but all these developers and studio companies, it's not fair to them to have to raise massive costs just in order to employ ARM coders. In the end & in the long term there will not be enough applications for ARM Macs.
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If what Dell, Microsoft, HP, and many others are any clue they want to go to ARM in the worst way possible. The only thing holding them back was a translator and antiquated ARM designs. The reality is the computer world is going ARM; as far as the portable world is concerned it is largely there. I have no idea where this "massive costs just in order to employ ARM coders" is coming from as there are tools that don't care what the CPU is - just that you write good code and have a reasonable compiler.

As 13 Predictions About the Future That Were Dead Wrong shows there are those who see the future and those who hold on to the dead/dying past. Some of the 'gads am I glad people didn't listen to this nonsense':

*Cars are just a fad
*Recorded music will destroy all musical ability
*Electricity is just a fad
*Telephones will never catch on
*TVs aren’t really going to be a big thing
*People will only want to shop in stores - this was was really dumb as Sears had been doing catalog sales as far back as 1889 and this clueless prediction came out in 1966
 
cmaier said:
WTF are “arm coders?”

Unless they are coding in assembly language, and they are not, they are not “arm coders.”

In almost all cases, all that is needed is a re-compile.
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I agree I have no idea where this "arm coders" nonsense is coming from. I haven't seriously written code since the 1990s and I know that all you need to do is re-compile...unless you did something dumb like hard code to a certain system API. Whoever wrote the Mac port of Dragon's Lair did that - it would only run on an 68020.
 
hot-gril said:
Ok, you're actually trolling since you've already cursed at some other member here with another account, so you get ignored.
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I tend to invoke Hanlon's razor in these cases with a slight twist: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance.
 
xxspirit4musicx said:
Everyone will see in the future I'll just be a meaningless spec of time and Mac M1s will be no more market share
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People were saying that about Apple since the Mac came out. Reality is ARM is the future; Microsoft saw that two years ago but couldn't get a emulator that was fast enough and the version of ARM they choose wasn't exactly stellar. Nvidia wouldn't have tried to buy ARM if it was a bridge to nowhere.

"Arm is a big deal because it has captured more than a 90% share in the mobile market. That is, almost all mobile phones today are based on Arm’s architecture."
 
Seeing Intel targeting Apple...
I think there is something in Apple's pipeline that intel knows about...but we don't...

I mean...with 85% PC market share, why is Intel worried about Macs 15%?

My only guess they are afraid RISC/ARM moves from Mac to Wintel territory...so they try to kill it before it grows... I think...
 
xxspirit4musicx said:
I really don't mean to argue with you Mr. Maximara, but all these developers and studio companies, it's not fair to them to have to raise massive costs just in order to employ ARM coders. In the end & in the long term there will not be enough applications for ARM Macs.

And to have a laugh at Blackberry which I've been dying to do lol, I seem to recall Blackberry creating a Desktop Application Platform to sync thier cell phones, they were pretty successful during their little market bubble, and it seems that Apple never caught up to the advantageous chase.
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So you think that Apple should have continued using outdated, slower processors for how long exactly ?

The transition to Arm has long been in the works and every company worth its Salt is has already writing apps for Arm anyhow (Via iOS). Coders upskill or don't get work. Thats the sad truth.

This isn't some "new thing" and there will be plenty of Applications for ARM Macs AND ARM PC's.

Someone had to make the first move to modernize computers. In this case it was Apple (again).
 
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Maximara said:
It's like my father who put $1000+ into a car only worth $600; after a while holding on something that old becomes problematic.
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I maintain a car for sentimental reasons on which I spend about $1,500-2,500 every 12-18 months. It probably worth about $200 as scrap, but I keep it because I love it. I do not depend on it. I have real car for real transportation.
 
MacBH928 said:
Seeing Intel targeting Apple...
I think there is something in Apple's pipeline that intel knows about...but we don't...

I mean...with 85% PC market share, why is Intel worried about Macs 15%?

My only guess they are afraid RISC/ARM moves from Mac to Wintel territory...so they try to kill it before it grows... I think...
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RISC/ARM has been a part of PC land for a while now. Also Intel isn't at 85% but 78.3% with AMD at 7.1% and AMD already has been marketing its ARM chip, the Opteron, since 2016.

Intel's behavior in this is just bizarre; unlike Apple they don't make computers. There is so much out of their control that it isn't funny.

Just who are the commercials for? Can't be the shareholders as if they have any brains they can see though this. Can't be the majority of PC users because they, odds are, will stick with what they know.
 
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deevey said:
So you think that Apple should have continued using outdated, slower processors for how long exactly ?

The transition to Arm has long been in the works and every company worth its Salt is has already writing apps for Arm anyhow (Via iOS). Coders upskill or don't get work. Thats the sad truth.
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Not just iOS but Android as well (it uses ARM as well)
deevey said:
This isn't some "new thing" and there will be plenty of Applications for ARM Macs AND ARM PC's.

Someone had to make the first move to modernize computers. In this case it was Apple (again).
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Agreed. Some people can't let go of the past and hang on to it well pass its expiration date. The x86 architecture had a good run but it looks like in terms of performance per watt it has reached the end of the road.
 
xxspirit4musicx said:
Time is gonna prove you wrong and Mac market share gonna plummet
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Finally, you have made a concrete claim that we can all look at and evaluate if it was correct. To make it easier, over what time frame do you expect this to happen? I am sure that no matter how well Apple does for the next year, two years, decade or score, your statement will eventually be true. I think six months after the last Intel Mac ships is a reasonable time to see what the impact on Apple Mac sales has been, however, I am happy to hear your counter proposal.
 
blazerunner said:
Yes... and the majority of people won't be using it for things outside of gaming. So why does Apple deliberately ignore such a gigantic market?
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I don't know about that. But either way, Apple can't compete in PC gaming without compromising the Mac. Aside from lock-in factors like DirectX, what makes Windows such a great platform for PC games in of itself is that it hardly ever changes, keeps compatibility when it does, and can run on standard hardware.

Btw, Apple is a leader in gaming as a whole, purely because that includes mobile.
 
xxspirit4musicx said:
but all these developers and studio companies, it's not fair to them to have to raise massive costs just in order to employ ARM coders.
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I have been developing software for what is now macOS since the late ‘80’s when it was called NeXTSTEP. One thing that NeXT Computer, Inc., NeXT Software, Inc., and Apple computer have done exceptionally well is provide tools to make the underlying hardware architecture completely irrelevant. I developed applications that ran on HP PA-RISC, Sun SPARC, Motorola 68K, PowerPC and X86/X86_64. I often had one of each hardware reference platform, but not always. Sometimes I just checked all the boxes in the compiler targets and had friends test the code. :)

However, let us evaluate what this massive amount of money needed to make development for Apple Silicon simple? All one needs is a MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, or Mac mini, that means the minimum investment is $699.
xxspirit4musicx said:
In the end & in the long term there will not be enough applications for ARM Macs.
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What is “enough applications”? Microsoft Office, Safari, Creative Suite, Chrome, Final Cut Pro, Affinity Designer, Photo and Publisher, etc. will all be on the platform or are already there. Most older apps will run under Rosetta 2 until they are actually ported. Fairly confident that if there were enough applications under macOS pre-Apple Silicon, there will still be post-Apple Silicon.
xxspirit4musicx said:
And to have a laugh at Blackberry which I've been dying to do lol, I seem to recall Blackberry creating a Desktop Application Platform to sync thier cell phones, they were pretty successful during their little market bubble, and it seems that Apple never caught up to the advantageous chase.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
 
MacBH928 said:
Seeing Intel targeting Apple...
I think there is something in Apple's pipeline that intel knows about...but we don't...

I mean...with 85% PC market share, why is Intel worried about Macs 15%?

My only guess they are afraid RISC/ARM moves from Mac to Wintel territory...so they try to kill it before it grows... I think...
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, they did about the same with e.g. AMD, Cyrix and Transmeta in the 1990s and had antitrust cases in Japan and the EU.
 
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