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Intel Looks to Broaden Thunderbolt 3 Adoption by Integrating Into Future CPUs, Eliminating Royalties

koyoot said:
If anything the earliest I would expect Macs to adopt AMD CPUs by next year.

Secondly. There is small Italian site, that has been pretty accurate when it goes to AMD information. They even got CPU core clocks right. And they say that AMD provided to Apple Raven Ridge APU engineering samples as early as December 2015, and that we have to expect AMD branded laptops in future.
http://www.bitsandchips.it/english/52-english-news/6183-apple-could-use-custom-x86-soc-made-by-amd
http://www.bitsandchips.it/english/52-english-news/7478-apu-zen-in-macbook-pro-between-2017-and-2018

However it will not happen earlier than Intel opening up Thunderbolt protocol. And the dates support this theory.

There is a possibility that it would be custom SoC, with HBM2 on package, 4C/8T and 16 CU design.
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No where in those sources does it say AMD provided engineering samples to Apple.

The first source says "Apple is pondering about using custom x86 CPUs in its next iMacs and MacBooks". This does not mean those custom x86 CPUs have to be AMD branded. The site then offer its opinion that AMD could be a possible partner for this.

The second article by the same source simply says the same thing; "AMD could provide custom SoCs to Apple". Yeah, we all know they could. The question is are they going to? The answer is no as I have provided my sources already on why.
 
DanielDD said:
This news just confirms that Apple was right in ditching all other ports. In 2/3 years, anyone who bought an expensive computer with old ports will regret it
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Actually quite the opposite

this confirms that Intel doesn't see the adoption of Thunderbolt as high as they were expecting, and that they're unable to actually make money off licensing TB-3 due to it's low adoption rates and desires.

meaning that Apple was actually incorrect to go all Thunderbolt-3 since the global adoption of Thunderbolt-3 has been slow. Heck, the entire Thudnerbolt standard reminds me of Firewire. Yes, a vastly superior technology to competiting USB, but at the end of the day, the "Good enough" port (not the best port), which is affordable, and universal, will always be more desirable than the extreme fastest/best if it means a large markup over whats needed.

I'd like to see USB-C/Thudnerbolt-3 take over mainstream. But like USB-A port, it won't happen overnight just because one manufacturer says "it's the future". it took USB-A nearly a decade before it was ubuquitious and the universal standard most high speed (relative to time) connections

this move by intel to drop the licensing fee hopefully will help

But at the end of thday, the average user, even "power" user, isn't going to desire to spend a lot more to use Thunderbolt3 if the exact same performance for their use is fine on USB-3.x

For example: Typical external hard drives don't even saturate a USB-3.1 channel. So why would the average user pay more for a Thunderbolt 3 enclosuer if there's no actuall real world benefit to it?
 
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TheShadowKnows! said:
I may have this wrong. [Please correct me if I do.]

But the major difference to "what has changed?" (aside from the list off wikipedia):

Thunderbolt 3 with its USB-C connector offers a USB ALTERNATE MODE capability, not available on its two earlier iterations. That is, rather than always tunneling protocols, TB3 now has the ability to carry protocols natively in alternate mode (without tunneling) over the USB-C differential pairs.
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I don't really know for sure. I haven't read up on Alternate Mode. I believe it's just to allow other protocols to run over a USB-C connector, namely DisplayPort. I bet a good Google session would turn up a lot of useful info though.
 
B3yondL said:
No where in those sources does it say AMD provided engineering samples to Apple.

The first source says "Apple is pondering about using custom x86 CPUs in its next iMacs and MacBooks". This doesn't mean those custom x86 CPUs have to be AMD branded. The site then offer its opinion that AMD could be a possible partner for this.

The second article by the same source simply says the same thing; "AMD could provide custom SoCs to Apple". Yeah, we all know they could. The question is are they going to? The answer is no as I have provided my sources already on why.
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https://twitter.com/BitsAndChipsEng/status/841975741055160321

They also post in other places. The author of those words is widely known as Fottemberg from SemiAccurate forum, and he post there as well, and talked about Apple buying hardware from AMD, not only on GPU side.

Your sources are widely available information. And yes. iMac will have Xeon E3v6 CPU, with ECC memory. But we are talking about Laptop chips.

Intel opened up Thunderbolt protocol. AMD can use it very easily. There is no problem for Apple to use custom build SoC just for them, from AMD.

Funniest part about this rumor, is that actually information on Thunderbolt being opened up have got more credibility.
 
koyoot said:
https://twitter.com/BitsAndChipsEng/status/841975741055160321

They also post in other places. The author of those words is widely known as Fottemberg from SemiAccurate forum, and he post there as well, and talked about Apple buying hardware from AMD, not only on GPU side.

Your sources are widely available information. And yes. iMac will have Xeon E3v6 CPU, with ECC memory. But we are talking about Laptop chips.

Intel opened up Thunderbolt protocol. AMD can use it very easily. There is no problem for Apple to use custom build SoC just for them, from AMD.

Funniest part about this rumor, is that actually information on Thunderbolt being opened up have got more credibility.
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Sorry, all that tweet says is "it's possible AMD will sell APU with HBM2 to Apple.". This does not say they did. Yeah, we all know it's possible they could put Ryzen chips inside the Mac. Anything is possible.

Is it viable? No, as I have already provided my sources that solidly claim Kaby Lakes across the board for 2017 iMacs and MacBook refreshes. And if history is a trend, the 11 year relationship has no plans on stopping: "we certainly work with Intel on our needs to deliver chips into our Mac roadmap and we see that continuing."

Sorry buddy, maybe in the next 2-3+ years ;)
 
This is great news!

So how long until rMB gets a TB3 port? :D

When will thunderbolt be integrated into intel CPUs? cannon lake? seems may be to soon. Maybe we will have to wait until Ice Lake in 2019 ? :( so no rMB w/ TB3 until 2020? :(
 
B3yondL said:
Sorry, all that tweet says is "it's possible AMD will sell APU with HBM2 to Apple.". This does not say they did. Yeah, we all know it's possible they could put Ryzen chips inside the Mac. Anything is possible.

Is it viable? No, as I have already provided my sources that solidly claim Kaby Lakes across the board for 2017 iMacs and MacBook refreshes. And if history is a trend, the 11 year relationship has no plans on stopping: "we certainly work with Intel on our needs to deliver chips into our Mac roadmap and we see that continuing."

Sorry buddy, maybe in the next 2-3+ years ;)
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Why you refusing to see that I am not claiming they will go to Apple computers this time around? All I am saying that fastest time span possible for AMD CPUs in Apple computers is next year. When Intel opens up Thunderbolt protocol, to everybody.
 
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koyoot said:
Why you refusing to see that I am not claiming they will go to Apple computers this time around? All I am saying that fastest time span possible for AMD CPUs in Apple computers is next year. When Intel opens up Thunderbolt protocol, to everybody.
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You are posting false information. You said they provided engineering samples to Apple but provided no source to back up that claim. Why?
 
"“Apple and Intel have collaborated on Thunderbolt from the beginning, and as the industry leader in its adoption, we applaud Intel’s efforts to integrate Thunderbolt technology into its CPUs and open it up to the rest of the industry,” said Dan Riccio, Apple’s senior vice president of Hardware Engineering."


It's interesting from Apples perspective, on one hand more users = more compatible devices = the more correct their bet on all TB/USB C was, but on the other hand without royalties, and without a BoM adding second chip, much cheaper systems will be able to eliminate that differentiator they had.
 
Waaaait, I wonder if this is why the current Surfaces don't have Thunderbolt, Microsoft new the next chip would have it with no added cost anyways...
 
B3yondL said:
You are posting false information. You said they provided engineering samples to Apple but provided no source to back up that claim. Why?
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The guy, who posted this information on Twitter, and B&C site is also a member of SemiAccurate forum. His nick there is Fottemberg. And he have said in early 2016 that AMD provided engineering samples to Apple of Raven Ridge APUs.

Raven Ridge traces were already apparent in one of previous builds of Mac OS Sierra, which one of people from TonyMac forum have claimed he found out.

I will not find it right now. It does not mean anything. It means that Apple is experimenting. And if we are to see Apple adopting the chips we are looking at early 2018, at the earliest, because of simple reason. Intel will open up Thunderbolt protocol in 2018 to everybody. When exactly? Nobody knows.

Found the post itself: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...s-sierra-drivers.2493828/page-2#post-38618522
Gigamaxx is the guy who found the information about Polaris 12 and Vega 10 traces in previous build of Sierra. https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...s-sierra-drivers.2493828/page-2#post-38618183 He also found traces of Raven Ridge. And that is codename for AMD APUs.
 
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T'hain Esh Kelch said:
Why? Intel invented it.
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No, Apple and Intel developed Thunderbolt together, it was first released on a Mac, and it was initially used just in MiniDisplay port (Apple tech), so the confusion is understandable. I also wasn't sure at first, this should help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)

bluespark said:
From what I understand, Apple has been Intel's key collaborator on this technology, but the call was Intel's. Apple supports making the standard open, though.
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That was my understanding too, and it seems to be confirmed from a quick search. I'm glad to hear Apple supports making it open.
 
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Would be great if they can negotiate this to become the next major standard.
 
This can't be a good thing; there are two situations:

No1: Intel can now go to to their hardware Windows partners and say "hey that cool technology Apple and us produced, you can use it license free" Not good for Apple.

No2: Apple can go to AMD and say "hey that cool technology Intel and us produced, you can use it license free" Not good for Intel.

This is a falling out between the two companies, there's no mutually beneficial outcome.
 
mdriftmeyer said:
AMD Ryzen Raven Ridge arrives this August with Vega GPGPU built in. You need to research instead of just denouncing the idea. This announcement is Intel already knowing they will lose exclusivity to Apple.
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I would not bet my head on this ;).

It is a possibility, but not(yet) a reality. Apple can experiment with something.
 
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