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john123

macrumors 68030
Jul 20, 2001
2,581
1,536
Sites like this and support forms make issues appear more widespread than they really are. We have plenty of science that's proven this time and time again. A vocal few suddenly make a small issue impacting less than a fraction of a single percent appear to be far larger.

For example, these forums were "filled" with complaints about video issues on the 2012 Mac mini. People here claimed it was a huge show-shopping problem impacting everyone. In reality, the issue was impacting in less than 1% of all 2012 Mac mini users according to Apple's data.

Even if thousands of users were on this site complaining about a single issue (which isn't the case), that's still nothing compared to the MILLIONS of iOS users out there. They'd be a vocal few making up a fraction of a percent of all users.

I can tell you that the number of reported issues (to Apple directly) with iOS 11 is about the same (actually a hint below) what we've seen with previous x.0.x releases in the past.

This entire post is riddled with mischaracterizations and bad assumptions. I have not alleged that the "vocal minority" as you call it means that an issue is "widespread." (Others might, and my critique applies equally to them.) The question is whether issues today are more or less widespread than they are in the past. Knowing that requires knowing what the base rates are--something that people here won't have. Even Apple won't have particularly good data on that since it relies upon self-reports—something that will exist with major hardware issues but will have some bias with lesser issues.

When you say "I can tell you that the number of reported issues (to Apple directly) with iOS 11 is about the same (actually a hint below) what we've seen with previous x.0.x releases in the past," you're just making stuff up. You have zero data to support that. So let's call a spade a spade there.

It's all well and good for people to talk about their own personal experiences on here. And those of their family, friends, coworkers, and so on. But when people start generalizing from those experiences, it represents an elementary mistake in logic. Similarly, when people assume that things today are the same as they are in the past, that too is a claim without a warrant--also an elementary mistake in logic.


Don’t you think people complaining about issues are also generalizing? As in “I’ve had issues so everyone else must be having issues as well”?
Indeed, and as per the above, that's fallacious reasoning.


The Apple version of “back in my day things were better (because I grew up with them so it somehow makes them better).”
Orrrrrrrr back in my day they really were better. Your response implies that something that I neither said nor argued implicitly. You're entitled to your own opinion, as I am mine. If you enjoy Apple products today, then by all means--continue using them.
 
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msvadi

macrumors 6502
Aug 12, 2010
364
68
I went back to iOS 10.3.3 on my iPhone 6s - the battery life on iOS 11 was abysmal with about 4.5 hours of usage.
 

ani4ani

Cancelled
May 4, 2012
1,703
1,537
Doesn't everyone complain about battery life and slowdown after every new release for every device ever? Then a couple months later, you don't hear about it anymore.

Welll my Aiir 2 was a disaster, with a huge drop in battery llfe. I would say at least 40% reduction.11.02 just about reversed the problem although it has genuinely slowed down
 

timeconsumer

macrumors 68020
Aug 1, 2008
2,059
2,053
Portland
I bet most Nexus and Pixels are updated. They just happen to be a very tiny percentage of devices sold. The Pixel apparently only sold 1 million in a year. That’s a ridiculously low number.
You're right, that is a ridiculously low number. I'm a huge fan of the Pixel line but I forget that it doesn't sell many in comparison to other devices. So regardless of the percentage of the adoption rate, that wouldn't help developers because that's still too low of an install base to prioritize their apps.
 

69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
7,895
15,043
In between a rock and a hard place
That “you’ve” seen. Doesn’t make it true.
Actually it does. Unless you know for a fact that @Ds6778 is lying, then when he says, "... this has been the buggiest releases I have ever seen", it is true based on the releases he's seen. If he had stated "this is the buggiest release ever", you might have point. He didn't generalize. He was specific.
 
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Ds6778

macrumors 65816
Sep 9, 2016
1,025
3,350
Some of the members on this site remind me of the website, bgr.com. I understand that some people are die hard Fanboys, but the sheer stupidity of the things you will read are mind boggling. "Because you are experiencing an issue, it must be fake! Apple products can't get bugs!" Smh


The mental gymnastics is unreal.
 
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deanthedev

Suspended
Sep 29, 2017
1,287
2,406
Vancouver
Absolutely no facts to back any of that up.

No, you’re the one without any facts. You’re taking the results of a few people complaining online and trying to project that to the entire population of users.
[doublepost=1507846453][/doublepost]
Actually it does. Unless you know for a fact that @Ds6778 is lying, then when he says, "... this has been the buggiest releases I have ever seen", it is true based on the releases he's seen. If he had stated "this is the buggiest release ever", you might have point. He didn't generalize. He was specific.

That’s not what I said, and if you followed my previous posts (and exchange with john123) you’d know this.

Someone having an issue doesn’t mean everyone does. Or do you disagree with that assertion?
 

Ds6778

macrumors 65816
Sep 9, 2016
1,025
3,350
No, you’re the one without any facts. You’re taking the results of a few people complaining online and trying to project that to the entire population of users.

Never once did I try and use my own experience to "project" onto anyone. I said that its the bugliest release *I* have ever seen. If anything, its people like you that cant backup any statements. I say I am having a poor experience and people come out of nowhere claiming they have none, and somehow I must be lying for saying anything contrary to what they have experienced. Its mind-numbing to say the least.
 

lincolntran

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2010
843
471
I'm part of the proud 53%. In about 30 years of owning and using Apple products, this marks the first time I've elected not to do software upgrade.

This is not the Apple I grew up with. And it's not the company that transformed itself starting around the mid 2000s either. I'm not blaming Tim Cook like lots of people on here do. But I am no longer the Apple enthusiast and evangelist I once was.

Everything under the sun must learn to change, evolve, and adapt or it’ll risk become outdated and irrelevant. This include Apple and every other company and every human beings. Nothing should stay the same years after years. That is boring.
 

Regime2008

Suspended
Oct 3, 2017
720
798
Basshead in ATL
No, you’re the one without any facts. You’re taking the results of a few people complaining online and trying to project that to the entire population of users.
[doublepost=1507846453][/doublepost]

That’s not what I said, and if you followed my previous posts (and exchange with john123) you’d know this.

Someone having an issue doesn’t mean everyone does. Or do you disagree with that assertion?
I cant say ios11 is perfect, and I won't say that its completely unusable, but I will say, based upon skimming over posts in this thread and others, there seems to be quite a few bugs/battery issues. There have been at least 3 updates this month to address a few of the bugs.
 

Ds6778

macrumors 65816
Sep 9, 2016
1,025
3,350
Everything under the sun must learn to change, evolve, and adapt or it’ll risk become outdated and irrelevant. This include Apple and every other company and every human beings. Nothing should stay the same years after years. That is boring.

IOS has pretty much been the same for 10 years though...
 

lkrupp

macrumors 68000
Jul 24, 2004
1,879
3,808
Some of the members on this site remind me of the website, bgr.com. I understand that some people are die hard Fanboys, but the sheer stupidity of the things you will read are mind boggling. "Because you are experiencing an issue, it must be fake! Apple products can't get bugs!" Smh

And just as stupid are the vocal minority who claim their issue is experienced by the majority of users. In other words a single issue makes it pandemic. Do you deny that the Internet amplifies the negative much more than the positive?
 

Ds6778

macrumors 65816
Sep 9, 2016
1,025
3,350
What iPhone do you have? I still have my 6s on 10.3.3.

8 Plus. Dont buy into the A11 bionic nonsense. Day to day, no difference. Also, just like the past 3 years, invoking 3D Touch on any app is choppy. Definitely not 60fps.
 

BaltimoreMediaBlog

Suspended
Jul 30, 2015
1,191
2,073
DC / Baltimore / Northeast
No wonder. I erased the download from my parents iPad, and I hoped the iPad would learn that erasing the download would be understood by the iPad as a clear message in the lines of "thanks but I don't want to update". However, Apple is pushing hard these days, very hard, in a really annoying way, so annoying that their products are not user-friendly anymore, but Apple-friendly, or CEO-friendly, or, actually, life-control-friendly.

Today, my parents (who are elderly) inadvertently accepted a dialog for updating to iOS 11, and here we go, a new iPad updated to iOS 11... some 32 bit apps that were useful no longer work, the iPad now is very pushing to activate Touch ID, a password, Apple Pay, etc... (I had to repeat TWICE that I do NOT want Touch ID nor a password, nor iCloud, nor NOTHING, and I'm afraid the iPad will ask me again about that... maybe someday it will require you to accept its blackmail for it to work).

Apple is doing exactly (and I mean exactly, and let me insist: exactly) the same things why I considered Microsoft user-unfriendly and that made me switch from PC to Mac decades ago.

And then you have the fanboys who tell you "if you need to use 32 bit apps, very easy: don't update to iOS 11". Really? Are you joking? How on Earth can you configure your iPad so that elderly people won't get confused and install iOS 11 by mistake when Apple is pushing hard to do whatever the CEO wants?

It's not the first time I realize about this, but today I see it really clear: Maybe I'll continue using Apple-derived technology in the future, because I'm a UNIX user/developer, and because I want products that work out of the box. But I'm almost sure now that I won't be using Apple-genuine products in the future, but Apple-derived ones.

Apple: You really trashed everything good that you used to have.

I have never yet been offered the IOS 11 update on my iPhone 5s.

Does Apple somehow know that I wouldn't want it? It's not even available! Even the betas were unavailable to me.

I still get the message, "IOS 10.3.3 is up to date."

Now granted, I have a lot of 32 bit free game apps. I see no advantage on an old iPhone updating to IOS 11 and losing apps.
 

deanthedev

Suspended
Sep 29, 2017
1,287
2,406
Vancouver
Never once did I try and use my own experience to "project" onto anyone. I said that its the bugliest release *I* have ever seen. If anything, its people like you that cant backup any statements. I say I am having a poor experience and people come out of nowhere claiming they have none, and somehow I must be lying for saying anything contrary to what they have experienced. Its mind-numbing to say the least.

What makes you think I based my comment only on that single one of yours?
 

69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
7,895
15,043
In between a rock and a hard place
That’s not what I said, and if you followed my previous posts (and exchange with john123) you’d know this.
That's exactly what you said. Our discourse has nothing to do with your exchange with john123. Our discourse is strictly about your exchange with Ds6778. You seem to be conflating two separate exchanges into a unified conversation.

Someone having an issue doesn’t mean everyone does. Or do you disagree with that assertion?
I agree completely. One person having an issue does not mean everyone does. Your error was making that accusation against a quote that doesn't imply what you're stating. Ds6778 made no generalized statement about iOS11. He made a very specific statement about how it related to him.
 

Regime2008

Suspended
Oct 3, 2017
720
798
Basshead in ATL
And just as stupid are the vocal minority who claim their issue is experienced by the majority of users. In other words a single issue makes it pandemic. Do you deny that the Internet amplifies the negative much more than the positive?
It can work both ways honestly. A single experience can be tremendously amplified. And multiple instances of an issue can be silenced by fanboys. That's why its important to only vouch for personal experiences, and not just rely on what someones friends, brothers, cousin said. Ultimately, what really matters is what Apple is willing to do in regards to these issues. People are becoming more and more vocal these days, by expressing their thoughts online via social media, forums, feedback, etc. Apple can either listen to its customers, and fix the issues, or act as if they don't care, and screw its user base.
 
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