iOS 6 Users on Devices Able to Run iOS 7 Must Upgrade to Fix FaceTime

[Rogifan]

Class action lawsuit in 3, 2, 1...

(Count me in when that happens)

On the other hand, those who think they have authority to tell me what to do and they can make decisions for me are welcomed to move to any dictatorship country.
I believe in freedom and choices are in the USA where this time Apple had screwed up.

When has anyone ever had the ability to install whatever software they want on an iOS device? You can chose not to upgrade your software but I don't see where Apple is legally required to support your device if you don't. If you can find it somewhere in their terms and conditions I'd love to see it.

 

[oliversl]

I expect Apple like quality

iOS 7.x is: too slow, has to many crashes, uses too much battery

iOS 8.x should be more like iOS6: fast, no springboard crashes, normal battery usage

What difference are you expecting?

 

[Menneisyys2]

You can chose not to upgrade your software

Absolutely wrong. If anything goes wrong and you have to restore or you need to get your device repaired / swapped, its firmware will be upgraded and you can't ask Apple's service personnel not to upgrade. Which is one of the major problems.

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Security certificates can be renewed. Period.

Exactly. Some minutes at most. Apple's reluctance to do this certainly shows how greedy they are and how stupid they think their customers are. (Also see "You're holding it wrong", while silently posting aerial engineer job positions on their "for hire" list...)

 

[SMIDG3T]

When was the last time you saw people lined up outside an Apple Store?

The last time it happened here people came to pay tribute to Steve. Spontaneous memorials were built by Apple customers at the three area Apple stores.

Bottom line. Innovation died with Steve. Apple must obsolete hardware quickly to sell more. No other way to move product.

I'm not defending this practice. Just saying it's Cook's only shot. Apple wants numbers. Customers are incidental.

You're not serious? The last time people lined up at an Apple Store? How about on pretty much every hardware launch? Where do you live? I live in a small town, Norwich in England and you get big queues there, I can only imagine what it's like in America.

 

[Avenged110]

Hardly. If they roll out an update for iOS 6 devices it would block updates to iOS 7. All updates are rolled out in build order, builds of 7 and dev/beta builds are all newer than the 6 builds. They can roll out updates for hardware which is not capable of running iOS 7 but how do you distinguish between those on say, iPhone 5's ho want to go to ios7 and not 6. They would have to implement some sort of option to choose an os version, then you have numpties choosing the wrong thing, others trying to go back to iOS 6 etc and it causes more issues than it fixes. Best plan is to stay the course and if you don't update then FaceTime is burst, maybe the jailbreak guys can fix it??

I see where you're coming from. But they don't even have to make it convenient for me. I'd be fine with them quietly allowing 6.1.6 restores for any device running 6.1.x but not 7.x.x. and not make a big deal out of it. I don't OTA update anyway. Leave it to people who have a bit more of an idea what they're doing. Anyone know if they could make a profile to install an updated certificate or is certificate signing too low-level for that? I'm sure it could be fixed eventually with a jailbreak but for me at least, not speaking for anyone else, it's not a big deal. It's just unfortunate that I can't use FaceTime anymore.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Bottom line. Innovation died with Steve. Apple must obsolete hardware quickly to sell more. No other way to move product.

I'm not defending this practice. Just saying it's Cook's only shot. Apple wants numbers. Customers are incidental.

Just a quick note: obsoleting old models and, via their (in the case of restores / servicing) forced OS upgrades, forcing their owners to purchase new hardware has always been practiced by Apple. iPhone 3G, and the, on the 3G, absolutely useless iOS4, for example...

 

[Avenged110]

Absolutely wrong. If anything goes wrong and you have to restore or you need to get your device repaired / swapped, its firmware will be upgraded and you can't ask Apple's service personnel not to upgrade. Which is one of the major problems.

Actually, you can. I had a nice chat with my Genius when I went to get my battery swapped about a month ago. He was very understanding and made a big fuss about it to the technicians in the back to ensure it didn't get updated. He also said that if something went wrong and it did get updated, they would try to find me a refurbished one running iOS 6. Granted, non-updated refurb models won't be around any more. But, store staff is usually sympathetic to this.

 

[sualpine]

Actually, you can. I had a nice chat with my Genius when I went to get my battery swapped about a month ago. He was very understanding and made a big fuss about it to the technicians in the back to ensure it didn't get updated. He also said that if something went wrong and it did get updated, they would try to find me a refurbished one running iOS 6. Granted, non-updated refurb models won't be around any more. But, store staff is usually sympathetic to this.

Store staff being nice to you /= Apple official policy.

 

[C DM]

Actually, you can. I had a nice chat with my Genius when I went to get my battery swapped about a month ago. He was very understanding and made a big fuss about it to the technicians in the back to ensure it didn't get updated. He also said that if something went wrong and it did get updated, they would try to find me a refurbished one running iOS 6. Granted, non-updated refurb models won't be around any more. But, store staff is usually sympathetic to this.

Well, more like store staff can potentially be sympathetic to this, based on different stores, different staff, and different things on their mind at the time. As is often the case with various other businesses. It doesn't mean that everyone will or that even most will, and many others can certainly easily have a whole different experience when it comes to things of this nature.

 

[shandyman]

If apple is going to make us upgrade to ios7 then stop disabling features for older devices. Like seri, airdrop (over wifi), stabilization and more.

Siri, as in proper Siri, has not been disabled on any device it was introduced on. Same with Airdrop.

Just stand your ground. Do NOT update to ios 7.

Apple can add services but cannot take them away. There will be a class action and the customers will win. Probably won't take long for facetime to be restored to ios 6 because Apple will fold.

Apple losing $350M in a patent suit over facetime is NOT its customers' faults. It's going to learn that the hard way if it wants to.

Lol, not going to happen! It'll be laughed out.

 

[Count Blah]

Yup, my phone works fine with iOS7 including battery life.

Your phone works fine, so there isn't a problem - gotcha

 

[rolphi]

Security certificates can be renewed. Period. That Apple doesn't want to put in the work to do this is the controversial issue at hand.

And in regards to my quote, truth is truth regardless of its source. As expected, the apologists rush in to "protect the system".

So, still amused.

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Hahaha, interesting reversal.

Touche', my friend.

But the system I refer to is Apple's policies, and how folks rush in to justify and defend them no matter what, without empathy to other's experience...

The security certificates are renewed. Apple put in the work to do this. They even provided the solution free of charge and really easy to do. It's called update to iOS 7. Because you want a different free solution doesn't mean they did not provide one.

Anyone who disagrees with you is an apologist? I would like to know if your argument passes logic and reasonableness tests. If it doesn't, then calling you out on it is not apologizing for Apple. I empathize with you. From reading your posts, you feel you are in the right, so your arguments should carry the day regardless if they are good arguments. Unfortunately that is not enough.

Make an argument why Apple is morally, ethically, commercially, logically, or reasonably obligated to go to lengths to provide you with a different free solution because you don't like theirs. Make it a good argument. You feel you are right, I can tell. Put this into an argument that holds water.


You say "no matter what" like you know that those disagreeing with you are completely without merit and yet speaking out against you.

So, if you would indulge me, answer some questions. In your opinion is it even possible for Apple to be right in this situation? Is it possible to be right in any situation where consumers disagree with them? How do you draw the line then for when Apple should be defended because they are right? What evidence would it take for you to believe that Apple is in the right? What arguments about reasonableness in situations could persuade you that Apple is in the right?

If you answer that Apple cannot be right, and that no evidence or arguments could exist that could persuade you, then I'm afraid it is you who is being dogmatic and arguing "no matter what."

 

[C DM]

The security certificates are renewed. Apple put in the work to do this. They even provided the solution free of charge and really easy to do. It's called update to iOS 7. Because you want a different free solution doesn't mean they did not provide one.

Anyone who disagrees with you is an apologist? I would like to know if your argument passes logic and reasonableness tests. If it doesn't, then calling you out on it is not apologizing for Apple. I empathize with you. From reading your posts, you feel you are in the right, so your arguments should carry the day regardless if they are good arguments. Unfortunately that is not enough.

Make an argument why Apple is morally, ethically, commercially, logically, or reasonably obligated to go to lengths to provide you with a different free solution because you don't like theirs. Make it a good argument. You feel you are right, I can tell. Put this into an argument that holds water.


You say "no matter what" like you know that those disagreeing with you are completely without merit and yet speaking out against you.

So, if you would indulge me, answer some questions. In your opinion is it even possible for Apple to be right in this situation? Is it possible to be right in any situation where consumers disagree with them? How do you draw the line then for when Apple should be defended because they are right? What evidence would it take for you to believe that Apple is in the right? What arguments about reasonableness in situations could persuade you that Apple is in the right?

If you answer that Apple cannot be right, and that no evidence or arguments could exist that could persuade you, then I'm afraid it is you who is being dogmatic and arguing "no matter what."

Your car develops a problem due to a flaw that the manufacturer is responsible for, the manufacturer develops a fix for it and says you can have it for free, but as part of the fix they will also need to paint your car some other color and add some designs. The color and designs don't change the functionality and usefulness of your car, and your car will be back in working order, but you try and see how many people will think it would be acceptable to get their car repainted with some designs just to get some flaw that the manufacturer introduced fixed.

 

[SusanK]

Just a quick note: obsoleting old models and, via their (in the case of restores / servicing) forced OS upgrades, forcing their owners to purchase new hardware has always been practiced by Apple. iPhone 3G, and the, on the 3G, absolutely useless iOS4, for example...

I have a Mac here running System 7.

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You're not serious? The last time people lined up at an Apple Store? How about on pretty much every hardware launch? Where do you live? I live in a small town, Norwich in England and you get big queues there, I can only imagine what it's like in America.

Yes, I am quite serious. The line outside the Apple store is just not something that happens here. Been a few years.

 

[shandyman]

iOS 6 Users on Devices Able to Run iOS 7 Must Upgrade to Fix FaceTime

You're not serious? The last time people lined up at an Apple Store? How about on pretty much every hardware launch? Where do you live? I live in a small town, Norwich in England and you get big queues there, I can only imagine what it's like in America.

I live in Newbury, which is much smaller, we don't have an apple store, but the phone shops have large queues when a new iPhone is released and the Apple Reseller had queues for the iPad Air. So I doubt the veracity of the poster you quote, especially after the quarterly earnings that were published.

 

[richwoodrocket]

This has nothing to do with a "visual change of iOS 7".

It has everything to do with iOS 7 being horrendously slow on iPhone 4 hardware, being slow and constantly crashing on iPhone 4S, and just being buggy for all devices. Just seeing how fluid windows phone 8.1 is on a 60$ Nokia 520 makes me cringe.


As per usability, the last thing I want to do is explain to my uncle things like "swipe from the bottom, twice, after you see that tiny triangle while watching a video and then wait for the airplay button to appear". Some things that used to take 3 button clicks are now 5.

Apple just forced all users with older hardware to upgrade.

Forcing users to upgrade is how Apple makes money.
Because certain things may take more taps to do, there are a lot of other things that require a lot less taps. IE wifi on or off. It used to be close app, go to settings app, tap wifi, on or off. Now, all you have to do is swipe up to get to control center and tap wifi on or off

 

[MacDude21]

While I understand it is annoying when people won't update to the latest version then complain about issues, apple, you update iOS 6 for non compatible devices already, just let them use your newer version of iOS 6 and we'll all get along here.
Personally, I don't know what's to hate about iOS 7. But different people have different opinions, and apple must understand that in order to succeed.

 

[Rogifan]

While I understand it is annoying when people won't update to the latest version then complain about issues, apple, you update iOS 6 for non compatible devices already, just let them use your newer version of iOS 6 and we'll all get along here.
Personally, I don't know what's to hate about iOS 7. But different people have different opinions, and apple must understand that in order to succeed.

How long should Apple support iOS 6? Because the people that hate iOS 7 will probably never like it or it's successors.

 

[C DM]

How long should Apple support iOS 6? Because the people that hate iOS 7 will probably never like it or it's successors.

In this case they already support it and already made a fix for it in 6.1.6, it's simply a matter of making it available as an update to everyone who is on iOS 6 at the moment (not just those who can't go beyond iOS 6). So the question about how long iOS 6 should be supported and all that is really a moot one as far as this whole discussion goes.

 

[12vElectronics]

I still have iOS6. Will I be the last person on the planet Earth to have it?

 

[Rogifan]

In this case they already support it and already made a fix for it in 6.1.6, it's simply a matter of making it available as an update to everyone who is on iOS 6 at the moment (not just those who can't go beyond iOS 6). So the question about how long iOS 6 should be supported and all that is really a moot one as far as this whole discussion goes.

I know what's supported and what's not. But I doubt the iOS 7 holdouts that don't like it today will like it tomorrow or 6 months from now or a year from now. And I'm sure they won't like iOS 8 either because it's not expected to look that much different visually from iOS 7.

Also no one has yet explained exactly how Apple would push iOS 6 to these iOS 7 capable devices. Do they have record of every iOS 7 capable device that is still running iOS 6? Are they easily able to swap out the iOS 7 installation pushed to the device with an iOS 6.1.6 one? And then what? Monitor whether these people run the patch and if they do, then push iOS 7 install back on the device?

 

[C DM]

I know what's supported and what's not. But I doubt the iOS 7 holdouts that don't like it today will like it tomorrow or 6 months from now or a year from now. And I'm sure they won't like iOS 8 either because it's not expected to look that much different visually from iOS 7.

Also no one has yet explained exactly how Apple would push iOS 6 to these iOS 7 capable devices. Do they have record of every iOS 7 capable device that is still running iOS 6? Are they easily able to swap out the iOS 7 installation pushed to the device with an iOS 6.1.6 one? And then what? Monitor whether these people run the patch and if they do, then push iOS 7 install back on the device?

People can certainly roll their eyes as much as they want, but what the "holdouts" (or basically just regular users) will want or not want, again, is not relevant to this particular discussion. People seem to bring that up, but that's exactly what ends up taking the discussion into a bunch of other places that aren't relevant to it.

As far as how Apple would do it, seems like they know how to do things of this nature with OS X, and seems like they have quite a few engineers that should be able to take on a challenge like that. We the end users aren't here to provide solutions for them, it's the other way around, in particular when they are the ones who messed things up to begin with. Just because we haven't figure out how to do it or they might need spend some effort figuring it out does not in any way mean that it shouldn't be done or that it's not possible or even just plain stupid (as certainly some people try to make it out to be).

 

[Alundra]

Genius move from apple!

Screw stubborn people! xD

 

[richwoodrocket]

Genius move from apple!

Screw stubborn people! xD

Exactly.

 

[Rogifan]

People can certainly roll their eyes as much as they want, but what the "holdouts" (or basically just regular users) will want or not want, again, is not relevant to this particular discussion. People seem to bring that up, but that's exactly what ends up taking the discussion into a bunch of other places that aren't relevant to it.

As far as how Apple would do it, seems like they know how to do things of this nature with OS X, and seems like they have quite a few engineers that should be able to take on a challenge like that. We the end users aren't here to provide solutions for them, it's the other way around, in particular when they are the ones who messed things up to begin with. Just because we haven't figure out how to do it or they might need spend some effort figuring it out does not in any way mean that it shouldn't be done or that it's not possible or even just plain stupid (as certainly some people try to make it out to be).

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think Apple should be focusing on iOS 8 and OS X 10.10. Not re-engineering how they roll out iOS updates. For the people so upset by this then I guess their next phone won't be an iPhone.