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When has anyone ever had the ability to install whatever software they want on an iOS device? You can chose not to upgrade your software but I don't see where Apple is legally required to support your device if you don't. If you can find it somewhere in their terms and conditions I'd love to see it.

You are correct there. However, it must be noted that if they had made that a selling point at any given time and it no longer works, I call that bait and switch.

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How long should Apple support iOS 6? Because the people that hate iOS 7 will probably never like it or it's successors.

Less than 2 years?
Remind me, how long do they have to warranty those devices in Europe again?
 
This really sucks. My sprint 4s iOS 6 phone is unlocked with a GPP sim using T-mobile. If i update I lose my JB which is needed for the unlock. IOS 7 is hard to read with my old eyes. It doesn't have the reader thingy which enlarges the text in articles.
 
So his hardware designs are worthless because of a UI that you don't like?

What about everyone else who likes iOS 7? Or things which are undeniably better, like the new multitasking interface?

I still don't understand why Tim Cook didn't just hire a professor UI designer with similar credentials as Forstall. Hire somebody that actually knows how to design software and not just assume that UI and industrial design are the same (because they're obviously not).

Jony should focus on what he does best and leave the software designing to the pros because he's an amateur in that department.
 
How long should Apple support iOS 6? Because the people that hate iOS 7 will probably never like it or it's successors.

How about getting 4 years out of your $650+ purchase. Would that be a problem?
Or does it have to be a new device every 2 years? Sure Apple did not mention that, because if they did, I would have gone elsewhere.

My computers run for 8 years, printers 10, my cars 9, my homes 30+, iPods 10, Fridge 17. Stove 20+. All in pristine condition and well maintained.

Why can't my iPhone not last me at least 5?
At the store, my perfect iPhone had everything I wanted. I paid $650 + tax for an unlocked iPhone 4S.

I don't like to be forced to change stuff that work well as they were originally designed, specially not because someone arbitrarily decides to remove features.

If iOS7 looked more like iOS6 and run just as fast, then why not.
My phone came with iOS5 and, yes, I had no reason to not update to iOS6. So I did.
 
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Right. Actually I don't think that's the only time they've done that. My point is that properly supporting the previously release of an OS is expected from users, as well it should be.

Yeah, and they did that in this case as well - they released 6.1.6 and 7.0.4...
 
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think Apple should be focusing on iOS 8 and OS X 10.10. Not re-engineering how they roll out iOS updates. For the people so upset by this then I guess their next phone won't be an iPhone.


Exactly this. People resisting iOS 7 need to face up to the fact that sooner or later they'll have to go to iOS 7, if another show stopping big occurs, it's likely not going to be fixed unless you're on iOS 7. If your device gets broken, you're going to have to go to iOS 7. iOS 8 is going to keep the same basis of iOS 7 but with some new features. The new look is here to stay.
 
How about getting 4 years out of your $650+ purchase. Would that be a problem?
Or does it have to be a new device every 2 years? Sure Apple did not mention that, because if they did, I would have gone elsewhere.

My computers run for 8 years, printers 10, my cars 9, my homes 30+, iPods 10, Fridge 17. Stove 20+. All in pristine condition and well maintained.

Why can't my iPhone not last me at least 5?
At the store, my perfect iPhone had everything I wanted. I paid $650 + tax for an unlocked iPhone 4S.

I don't like to be forced to change stuff that work well as they were originally designed, specially not because someone arbitrarily decides to remove features.

If iOS7 looked more like iOS6 and run just as fast, then why not.
My phone came with iOS5 and, yes, I had no reason to not update to iOS6. So I did.

Find any vendor of a smartphone where you are going to get longer software support than Apple for a given device. That is the bottom line. If you feel that Apple is so shady and the software support in their mobile products is so bad and you feel like they are forcing you into buying a new phone, then go to the manufacturer you feel has a better overall package. That simple.

The mobile market is not at a mature stage yet, things are still moving very fast, especially technology-wise. You can't expect a phone to have the same staying power as your desktop computer, and to even put it in the same sentence as a car, a stove, a fridge and even a home just shows how ridiculous the point your trying to make is. Your phone's battery won't last 5 years. No, it is not interchangeable, but you knew that when you bought it.

If you want to run old legacy software, and/or be on your own to keep tabs on updates and security issues, have a phone with a replaceable battery, etc. then there are many choices for you out there, and yes, you can probably make such a device last 5 years. But if you do, you are going to run into the same problems (except exacerbated exponentially) of your old OS not being updated to address security risks, provide the latest backend functionality and/or services and features, not have the latest software that developers aim at with their new apps, etc. and you are going to have to spend a lot more of your own time and energy maintaining that device. There are those that think this sort of thing is fun. 99.99% of Apple's consumer base do not.

Do you have a choice as a free consumer? Yes. Does Apple also have a choice to make as to how they feel is the best way to provide a streamlined and simple yet powerful and expansive user experience to as many of their customers that keeps them as satisfied as possible in the most efficient and cost effective way in order to continue to expand their user base and grow as a company? Yes. Does Apple provide a free and simple solution to restore a secure and safe FaceTime connection to you as a consumer? Yes. Did Apple remove the FaceTime app from your phone? No.

In actuality what has happened is that the person's device you are trying to connect to is rejecting the insecure certificate your device is sending out, because that person's device IS updated with the latest security patch, and what you're trying to do is open an insecure connection that puts not only you, but also the person you are trying to connect to, at risk. Apple has every right to deny that connection in order to protect its users from inadvertently initiating a connection that makes them vulnerable to interception of their personal data.

It is hard for me to understand the mentality of the vocal minority of users who feel they should be entitled to ruin things for the vast majority who are very happy with the fundamental philosophy behind Apple's mobile device support. Most of Apple's customers feel that their devices' lives are actually extended by being included in the latest software updates, not the other way around. Most of Apple's customers would take offense to being stuck on the same major release version as their phones originally shipped with and would feel that they were being forced to buy new hardware if that was the case. Sound familiar? This vast majority accept the sound logic behind the fact that their older devices will not be able to run the latest software quite as fast as new devices or quite as fast as they ran the older software they originally came with, and are happy with the fact that they can use the new features of the new software for free without having to pony up the cash for a new device.

Why doesn't Apple change the fundamental functionality of their simple, streamlined software update feature that simply points at the latest available software version of the device in question? Because 99.99% of their user base are 100% happy that it is that easy, and frankly I am happy that Apple does not design their mobile systems to try to cater to the 0.01% of its ultra-tech savvy users who want to have a choice just for the sake of it.
 
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If you bought say an iPhone 5 in June 2013 ... You would have iOS6 I think so, that would make your iPhone 11 months. And If you bought only to use Facetime and without updating your OS, Facetime should be working right know. And if Apple goes bankrupt you may have a point but if not, I asure you that here in Europe you will win the case pretty easily, because you bought with that feature. Apple may choose not to fix it but it will have to give your all the money you spent in that device.

-snip-

It happened with Sony and their OS support of Linux. They lost the case here and had to pay 90€ (I think) all the people that sue them. And I do not really remember but I think it was way of out the warranty period.

And again, I do not understand why most of the people blame here the Users who do not want to upgrade. It is Apple who broke the Facetime support in a perfectly capable OS that in some cases it could be less than 1 year. And they have pretty much a lot of money to fix this nonsense issue.

Have a nice day.

  • You as the plaintiff would have to demonstrably show that you only use the device for FaceTime.
  • Even that would be irrelevant, because all Apple has to do is show that they provide a free and simple fix to restore functionality that was not disabled by Apple in the first place. FaceTime actually still works fine under 6.1.5 - what is happening is that the device you are trying to connect to IS updated with the latest security patch and rejects the old certificate your device is sending out as insecure, thus protecting the call recipient from opening an insecure connection that you are trying to initiate.
  • The Sony case with Linux is not the same at all, because Sony wasn't offering a solution at all, while Apple's solution is provided, and is very simple to apply.

Case dismissed, have a nice day.
 
My wife's iPad 3 is still on iOS 6 because we both know fine well that iOS 7 on the iPad 3 isn't as smooth as iOS 6. And if she updates it to iOS 7 on my say so and it's UI isn't as smooth she'll go mental!

We both have 5s's so FaceTime on iPad isn't a necessity for her, but one of the main reasons form people not updating the iPad 3 is because of the poor frame rate of the animations versus iOS 6.
 
Don't you think if they could just update the app, they would have?

Apparently not, they could have just pushed out new certs as a security patch update.

With 6.1.6, we got a new cert, and other fixes, but it certainly could have been just a cert patch.

The certificates are built in to the operating system, not the app. Hence the need to update the OS.

This comment could not be more incorrect.

The cert is just a file.
 
My wife's iPad 3 is still on iOS 6 because we both know fine well that iOS 7 on the iPad 3 isn't as smooth as iOS 6. And if she updates it to iOS 7 on my say so and it's UI isn't as smooth she'll go mental!



We both have 5s's so FaceTime on iPad isn't a necessity for her, but one of the main reasons form people not updating the iPad 3 is because of the poor frame rate of the animations versus iOS 6.


It's significantly better on 7.1 compared to 7.0. Average user wouldn't even notice.
 
Apparently not, they could have just pushed out new certs as a security patch update.

With 6.1.6, we got a new cert, and other fixes, but it certainly could have been just a cert patch.



This comment could not be more incorrect.

The cert is just a file.

Yes, the certificate is just a file. It is not the actual fix, it just "certifies" for the app that the fix has actually been applied to the OS.

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When you say SSL bug, do you mean Heartbleed? Or something else? I am assuming the later, as Apple apparently skirted around Heartbleed be depreciating usage of OpenSSL.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/04/16/how-apple-avoided-heartbleed.aspx

Correct it is a different issue.
 
What does a retina display have to do with skeuomorphism? One of the biggest benefits of a retina display is in typography and that certainly isn't skeuomorphic. IMO you don't need all that embellishing when you have a beautiful display.

Here's Spotify in iOS 6 and iOS 7. Their iOS 7 design is so much better, IMO.
Image

Image

Same with weather channel app:

Image

ii_hucx4rwu2_1458fb6f48470f45.png
ii_hucx4rw60_1458fb6f48470f45.png


And Fantastical

Image

fantastical2.jpg


In my opinion all three of these apps look better on retina display with iOS 7 style design language.

In my opinion they are all markedly more ugly! lol
 
Be quiet. There's nothing wrong with "Apple's software." People are just scared because of change, change happens. We have to deal with it. Just update to 7... It's amazing. Apple's software is by far the best. Why don't you bash samsung instead of apple? They don't push updates out and patch holes. Their stinking Android OS has malware, phishing, and much more. Just be happy.

While I agree with what you are trying to say, I'm also of the opinion that Apple should of killed off support for the iPhone 4. I think you'll find there are some users, like my daughter, who thinks iOS 7 is a dog on her iPhone 4

It wouldn't surprise me when the iPhone 6 is announced that support for the iPhone 4 will end, maybe even the iPhone 4s as well. These old products will just hold Apple down in some way or another.
 
My mothers iPad 2 and my SO's iPhone 4 have no issues with 7.1 whatsoever. And trust me, I would hear about it also. Haha.

My wife's iPad 3 is still on iOS 6 because we both know fine well that iOS 7 on the iPad 3 isn't as smooth as iOS 6. And if she updates it to iOS 7 on my say so and it's UI isn't as smooth she'll go mental!

We both have 5s's so FaceTime on iPad isn't a necessity for her, but one of the main reasons form people not updating the iPad 3 is because of the poor frame rate of the animations versus iOS 6.


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Yes...a file. IN THE OS.
I would conjecture that if FaceTime wasn't an OS level app and a downloadable apple (a la find my friends) then we wouldn't be having this issue.

Apparently not, they could have just pushed out new certs as a security patch update.

With 6.1.6, we got a new cert, and other fixes, but it certainly could have been just a cert patch.



This comment could not be more incorrect.

The cert is just a file.
 
Exactly this. People resisting iOS 7 need to face up to the fact that sooner or later they'll have to go to iOS 7, if another show stopping big occurs, it's likely not going to be fixed unless you're on iOS 7. If your device gets broken, you're going to have to go to iOS 7. iOS 8 is going to keep the same basis of iOS 7 but with some new features. The new look is here to stay.

This is just reality. iOS 6 (or something like it) isn't coming back. You can try and stay with it for as long as possible but eventually you either have to upgrade or go elsewhere.

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In my opinion they are all markedly more ugly! lol

Because?

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How about getting 4 years out of your $650+ purchase. Would that be a problem?
Or does it have to be a new device every 2 years? Sure Apple did not mention that, because if they did, I would have gone elsewhere.

My computers run for 8 years, printers 10, my cars 9, my homes 30+, iPods 10, Fridge 17. Stove 20+. All in pristine condition and well maintained.

Why can't my iPhone not last me at least 5?
At the store, my perfect iPhone had everything I wanted. I paid $650 + tax for an unlocked iPhone 4S.

I don't like to be forced to change stuff that work well as they were originally designed, specially not because someone arbitrarily decides to remove features.

If iOS7 looked more like iOS6 and run just as fast, then why not.
My phone came with iOS5 and, yes, I had no reason to not update to iOS6. So I did.

What features would iOS 7.1 remove from your device? And even if it did remove something Apple's terms and conditions clearly state they have the right to do it. I guess iPhone isn't the right device for you.

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Less than 2 years?
Remind me, how long do they have to warranty those devices in Europe again?

But they are still supporting for devices that aren't able to receive newer software. My point is the people that hate iOS 7 will never like it (or it's successors) so Apple could never support it long enough for them.
 
This comment could not be more incorrect.

The cert is just a file.

Which is built into the OS package. Apple has no mechanism for updating a single file. If such a fix were needed it would be issued as an entire OS update.
 
What features would iOS 7.1 remove from your device? And even if it did remove something Apple's terms and conditions clearly state they have the right to do it. I guess iPhone isn't the right device for you.



Not in the UK im afraid. UK law such as the Sales of Goods Act over rules company t&c's every time
 
Not in the UK im afraid. UK law such as the Sales of Goods Act over rules company t&c's every time

So if in iOS 8 Apple removes a feature that existed in iOS 7 the "Sales of Goods Act" would force Apple to add it back?
 
How long should Apple support iOS 6? Because the people that hate iOS 7 will probably never like it or it's successors.

4-5 year support would be acceptable. The current 1 year is not long enough by any stretch of the imagination.
 
4-5 year support would be acceptable. The current 1 year is not long enough by any stretch of the imagination.

4-5 years of support is never going to happen, phones just don't have the hardware to keep up for 4-5 years. 3 years is probably the longest a phone could be kept somewhat current and useable. Also, iOS 6 was real eased September 2012 the current iOS stretch for support is 2 years.

Edit: also 4-5 year old DEVICES are still supported, but expecting them to keep supporting old versions of iOS that long is unreasonable. 5 years of support would mean apple would need to still be supporting iOS 3.
 
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  • You as the plaintiff would have to demonstrably show that you only use the device for FaceTime.
  • Even that would be irrelevant, because all Apple has to do is show that they provide a free and simple fix to restore functionality that was not disabled by Apple in the first place. FaceTime actually still works fine under 6.1.5 - what is happening is that the device you are trying to connect to IS updated with the latest security patch and rejects the old certificate your device is sending out as insecure, thus protecting the call recipient from opening an insecure connection that you are trying to initiate.
  • The Sony case with Linux is not the same at all, because Sony wasn't offering a solution at all, while Apple's solution is provided, and is very simple to apply.

Case dismissed, have a nice day.
Thank you for your legal opinion that means absolutely nothing as you are not a presiding judge over this matter. It's fun to read it, but it doesn't mean a thing.

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4-5 years of support is never going to happen, phones just don't have the hardware to keep up for 4-5 years. 3 years is probably the longest a phone could be kept somewhat current and useable. Also, iOS 6 was real eased September 2012 the current iOS stretch for support is 2 years.

Edit: also 4-5 year old DEVICES are still supported, but expecting them to keep supporting old versions of iOS that long is unreasonable. 5 years of support would mean apple would need to still be supporting iOS 3.
Why does any of this matter in this case again? Because it's irrelevant. They already have 6.1.6, it's already been supported and fixed, it's just a matter of it being made available to those who are on iOS 6.
 
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