iPad 2 with support for Adobe Flash, is it possible?

[poloponies]

Choice. There I said it. Who gives a crap if you'll never use Flash. Who gives a crap if your neighbor does? What's wrong with giving the user that option? God forbid you hit a Flash site, because we all know there aren't many out there *sarcastic*, wouldn't it be at least convenient to have it? All douchey fanboy crap aside.. wouldn't it?

I do happen to think for myself, as can you. How much plainer can Apple make it? They choose not to support Flash. It's not a secret. A iPad is not essential to human life, it's a useful tool for those people whose needs it meets. Clearly not 100% of the population. You have Android options, the Playbook and even an "Adam" tablet.

You're not going to force Apple to give you 100% of everything you want and it can be argued that the Xoom, Playbook and others don't meet 100% of all users' expectations.

And I don't need statistical analysis to demonstrate that Apple has sold a buttload of iPads despite all these supposed shortcomings. It's just not that important for most users.

 

[Piggie]

With all that said, will Apple ever change their mind and support Flash? No. Steve Jobs' ego won't allow it and he'll take that to his grave... which could be some time this year by leaked estimates. Hey it's a rumor site after all.

Or you could pose the question:

What will be around longer? Steve Jobs or Flash

Ohh, that's harsh

 

[poloponies]

Or you could pose the question:

What will be around longer? Steve Jobs or Flash

Ohh, that's harsh

Harsh? No. Childish? Absolutely.

 

[gonnabuyamacbsh]

Or you could pose the question:

What will be around longer? Steve Jobs or Flash

Ohh, that's harsh

Lol if Steve Jobs needs to die for me to get flash on the iPad than so be it.

 

[Sydde]

Someone once told me that by using a Mac, I was missing out on gobs of content (or at least stylishness), that websites all often look different on a PC because of ActiveX. Is there any truth to that, now or in the past? If so, how much does that differ from the Flash thing?

 

[poloponies]

But you are just making those numbers up.

In the UK.

Sky news uses Flash on its site

BBC News uses Flash on it's site

ITV News uses Flash on it's site

Channel 4 News uses Flash on it's site

Most of the main UK National newspapers also use Flash for video on their sites.

None of this has changed in the last year.

It's not mine or your Fault that Apple chooses not to work with Adobe.

And FYI, BBC News has a great iPad app (which has been out nearly as long as the iPad) which I use every day. Has plenty of non-Flash video. And the iPlayer App is coming out this week.

 

[celo48]

Or you could pose the question:

What will be around longer? Steve Jobs or Flash

Ohh, that's harsh

That's not cool man. C'mon, we are not here to make comments like this.

 

[celo48]

Lol if Steve Jobs needs to die for me to get flash on the iPad than so be it.

How old are you guys? Please!

 

[zenio]

No Way. Steve has written off flash and what Steve says is the law in AppleLand. No exceptions. Besides who really wants to use an iPad for a full web experience anyway? Certainly not the huge masses that have them.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Besides who really wants to use an iPad for a full web experience anyway?

In sites I visit, I need Silverlight more than Flash. Yet I never see anyone bringing up Silverlight as a reason Android doesn't give "full web" experience.

Also it should be mentioned Flash is fairly useless when I try to watch any Flash-based video on full web on my supposedly decent Android phone. Heck even my aging netbooks complain when I watch heavy Flash stuff. I used to have the Flash setting on my phone as "enabled when requested" but now I disabled Flash all together because accidentally clicking on Flash would annoyingly slow down the whole site navigation. Perhaps it's better with the new faster CPUs, but really IMHO Flash is a horrible piece of software for mobile platforms and developers should stay far far away.

 

[alex2792]

No, there will never be flash on the iPad until Steve Jobs kicks the bucket and Apple starts losing significant marketshare to Android/WebOS tablets. Both are likely to happen by 2012, so perhaps by the time iPad 3 rolls out Apple will be forced to get with the program and finally give us a CHOICE to use flash. Lack of flash is the reason that I got rid of my iPad, what's the point of making the "ultimate web surfing device" if I can't use half the websites I need?

 

[Mitchrapp]

As far as a flash website goes, I haven't visited one in years. Flash games, bleh. But to have flash for videos, or Hulu or justinTV or streaming -- I'm all for it.

And since I have a WIFI iPad and it's for home use, 100% -- battery life doesn't mean quite as much. Just keep it plugged in more while in use.

 

[Sydde]

As far as a flash website goes, I haven't visited one in years. Flash games, bleh. But to have flash for videos, or Hulu or justinTV or streaming -- I'm all for it.

And since I have a WIFI iPad and it's for home use, 100% -- battery life doesn't mean quite as much. Just keep it plugged in more while in use.

Can you not get most of that using Skyfire?

 

[neko girl]

I think that even if Apple had legitimate reasons to include Flash into iPad 2 (I'm not saying they do), they caused/found themselves in too much of a stink about it to reverse course.

Too many egos at work here - the consumer really is the last person to be considered here. Though, Steve did mention that if you feel strongly enough about Flash why not vote with your wallet, and buy a competing product?

 

[Mitchrapp]

Can you not get most of that using Skyfire?

Skyfire, which I have, is annoying as hell. Slowest browser ever. They have some flash stuff that works and others that don't. So e are decent quality and some aren't.

By biggest complaint would be that since it's a bad browser to use full time, it's a pain having to switch between my main browser iCab and Skyfire.

And Hulu you can't get with skyfire. I have a sub to Washington Times that uses flash, I'd love to get that on here. Also, NFL replay -- I'd be in heaven if I could get that on an iPad. But I can't.

 

[bri1212]

This is not cool anymore

You people are just plain F@%#ing Rude. Steve Jobs, maybe someone's brother, son, husband, father, uncle, cousin, or a distant relative, on this site. How dare you wish him, or anyone else dead for Flash. If you don't like Apple products because you have an opinion of Steve Jobs, that's certainly your prerogative. But wishing someone dead because you can't have it on the toy you want, is just beyond juvenile.
The problem with Flash is it does not work well on apple os. Not just OSI but also OSX. ( not to mention it isn't even that good on anything prior to Windows7 ). You have a problem with that contact Adobe. If Adobe had tried to make Flash stable on an apple OS, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
You may complain about Steve Jobs, but he is the only reason that there still is an Apple Computer company, that there ever was an Ipod, Iphone, and Ipad.
When Steve Jobs took back over the company, it was not far from bankruptcy, and it is now one of the biggest strongest companies in the world.
If you want flash on your tablet there will be plenty of tablets to choose from, (note not yet though), however, it probably won't be an I-anything.

 

[Mitchrapp]

How dare you wish him, or anyone else dead for Flash..

How about Castro. I've been wanting him dead for some time.

 

[WLS]

This: http://www.9to5mac.com/51370/flash-10-2-makes-monster-improvements-in-cpu-optimization

The new Flash Player most likely runs faster than HTML5 and with less power. It would be super fast on an iPad2. The technical argument against using it is going away.
what is left is an argument of egos. grow up! Choice is good.

 

[BaldiMac]

This: http://www.9to5mac.com/51370/flash-10-2-makes-monster-improvements-in-cpu-optimization

The new Flash Player most likely runs faster than HTML5 and with less power.

That's a pretty broad statement comparing apples and oranges. Flash Player is a decoder. HTML5 is a markup language. Under which circumstances and for what uses is your statement true?

The technical argument against using it is going away. what is left is an argument of egos.

Which technical argument? The ones brought up by Jobs have not been addressed. Yes, performance is improving drastically for some uses, particularly for video updated to take advantage of the improvements.

grow up! Choice is good.

So taking you at your word, wouldn't you be in favor of increasing the adoption of HTML5 over Flash? Flash has a virtual monopoly in animation delivery and a huge chunk of video delivery. HTML5 has the advantage of multiple implementations from a variety of vendors. Isn't choice better?

 

[ee4life]

If I recall correctly, the original argument against Flash on the i-devices was that Adobe had failed to deliver a product that met Apple's requirements for stability and resource utilization as it pertained to an impact on battery life. Everything else is just a straw man (i.e. Flash is a dying, closed platform) in my opinion. I don't love Flash, but it is here and won't be dead anytime soon. Choice is good, blah blah blah... but the real question is whether or not Flash is really good enough for mobile yet.

I've held the opinion that the ball is currently in Adobe's court and they need to demonstrate that Flash can be both stable and efficient on mobile platforms. I think that despite Flash's proliferation into other mobile platforms such as Android, it is still not nearly ubiquitous in this segment because of the varying capabilities of the phones that they would have to support. Other devices (webOS stuff, RIM's Playbook) probably won't be mainstream enough to significantly alter the curve. Contrary to Android, Apple has just a handful of devices with similar hardware, which in theory suggests a simpler support model and quicker access to higher mobile marketshare should they ever be granted entrance into the walled garden.

It should be Adobe's priority to make this happen, but honestly I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe they are trying to work with Apple and they are being rebuffed. Maybe they actually are working with Apple to make this a big reveal for iOS 5 and they've managed to keep it a secret this long (remember, Steve says no until he says yes).

Regardless, the longer Adobe plods along without Flash running on iOS, the more sites are going to move to HTML5, and it may ultimately cripple their efforts in the mobile segment. It doesn't matter if Android is #1 or RIM is #1 or if Apple only has 20% smartphone market share. What matters is what share of the browsing Apple devices are responsible for in the mobile/tablet segment, and how many of those sites being browsed use Flash. I guarantee the sites that see high volumes of mobile Safari users are going to optimize for iOS because other mobiles (and desktop browsers once IE9 rolls out) will support HTML5 and it is much easier to support just one design model.

I can say that for the first time in years it appears that Adobe is taking development of the Flash plug-in semi seriously in terms of optimization. So who knows, maybe Apple will eventually come around and extend Flash's lease on life after all... with a toggle of course for those of us who can live without the ads

 

[Sydde]

If I recall correctly, the original argument against Flash on the i-devices was that Adobe had failed to deliver a product that met Apple's requirements for stability and resource utilization as it pertained to an impact on battery life. Everything else is just a straw man (i.e. Flash is a dying, closed platform) in my opinion.

I get an impression from other things I have heard that maybe there is a missing element to this picture. It seems like there was this thing about the kinds of functionality they were allowing in the app store, and one of their criteria concerned restricting sources of processing. Which is to say, Apple does not want any kinds of programs running other than what has been specifically approved by app store vetting. No Automator scripts, no Java, no Flash, only JS under the strict supervision of Safari. This, if correct, may be a matter of security (the main justification for a closed platform in the first place), or a matter of profitability, or a mix of both.

I may be completely off the mark, but either way, if Flash can be killed, at last, I shed not tears over it. Almost everything it can do can be done with JS, so why have the duplication?

I can say that for the first time in years it appears that Adobe is taking development of the Flash plug-in semi seriously in terms of optimization. So who knows, maybe Apple will eventually come around and extend Flash's lease on life after all... with a toggle of course for those of us who can live without the ads

Yeah, problem there, IME with Apple, it will be all or nought. If they put Flash in, you will not be able to disable it.

 

[ee4life]

I get an impression from other things I have heard that maybe there is a missing element to this picture. It seems like there was this thing about the kinds of functionality they were allowing in the app store, and one of their criteria concerned restricting sources of processing. Which is to say, Apple does not want any kinds of programs running other than what has been specifically approved by app store vetting. No Automator scripts, no Java, no Flash, only JS under the strict supervision of Safari. This, if correct, may be a matter of security (the main justification for a closed platform in the first place), or a matter of profitability, or a mix of both.

I may be completely off the mark, but either way, if Flash can be killed, at last, I shed not tears over it. Almost everything it can do can be done with JS, so why have the duplication?

I think you're right with that... they still have explicit provisions against downloading of arbitrary executables/code, which can be done with Flash (albeit ActionScript/SWFs compiled for their runtime). Additionally, Flash is frequently the guilty party for warnings from security groups. However, if Apple were to incorporate sandboxing akin to what Chrome does with Flash now, that would alleviate a huge security concern.

Profitability is another concern, where Flash on the iPhone will allow people to play games for free as opposed to buying apps, and developers with a Flash game may be less likely to build a version for the app store. On the other hand, I've not played a single Flash game that is even close to being on par with the higher end iPhone/iPad games.

The real issue is that content designers and providers are still a tad slow in the transition away from Flash, so while there are competing technologies that can be used, I don't think they have been used in a widespread enough manner (as far as Flash replacement) that the issue has been put to rest entirely. Honestly, while there are entire websites built with Flash, I don't visit many sites that have anything more than Flash ads on my iPhone, so I don't really miss it. But I don't doubt that there are people that genuinely care about it. And I'm not talking about the people that just want to check a feature box or get on a soapbox and blast Apple's policies.

I think we are approaching a tipping point. I only know a few folks that have Flash on their phones (and the experience has been somewhat "meh"). Unless Adobe shows the world that they actually matter in the mobile market, the world is eventually going to overcome that inertia and move away from them in larger and larger droves. So the question really is whether or not they're going to continue relying on the underdogs in this race or if they've been tuning the machine for the tried and true favorite.

 

[Piggie]

Regardless, the longer Adobe plods along without Flash running on iOS, the more sites are going to move to HTML5, and it may ultimately cripple their efforts in the mobile segment.

To be fair to Adobe, they can't do anything without Apple.

If Apple says to Adobe, here are the things you need to get the most from the GPU in the iPad then they can work with it.

To be honest, I don't know if the iPad GPU has anything that would work well with Flash. Tegra 2 advertising has said it had hardware decoding, or something to work with Flash.

It would not be fair to criticize Adobe if Apple hold back the info/tools needed for the to get it working as they have done with the Mac's for years I understand.

It would be like me saying make my car run better, but I'm not going to allow you to use any of the special tools needed to get inside and work on it, you can only poke about with it on the outside.

Funnily enough, I was only just thinking..............

HP's new WebOS tablet says it will run Flash
Blackberrys Playbook says it will run Flash
Android Honeycomb says it will run Flash

Adobe is still hard at work making Flash run better on all platforms.

It does not really seem like it's going anywhere.

If someone can come up with a alternative that can do everything Flash can do, as easy as Flash can do it, then please, I'm sure it would be great.

what makes me laugh is that Apple fans seem to be the only group of people who want their product to do less. they don't even want the choice, they actually want their brand to not do things others can. That's quite amazing I think.

 

[shen]

Skyfire, which I have, is annoying as hell. Slowest browser ever. They have some flash stuff that works and others that don't. So e are decent quality and some aren't.

I am sure that is just coincidence....

 

[shen]

You people are just plain F@%#ing Rude. Steve Jobs, maybe someone's brother, son, husband, father, uncle, cousin, or a distant relative, on this site. How dare you wish him, or anyone else dead for Flash. If you don't like Apple products because you have an opinion of Steve Jobs, that's certainly your prerogative. But wishing someone dead because you can't have it on the toy you want, is just beyond juvenile.
The problem with Flash is it does not work well on apple os. Not just OSI but also OSX. ( not to mention it isn't even that good on anything prior to Windows7 ). You have a problem with that contact Adobe. If Adobe had tried to make Flash stable on an apple OS, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
You may complain about Steve Jobs, but he is the only reason that there still is an Apple Computer company, that there ever was an Ipod, Iphone, and Ipad.

Welcome to today. We are more concerned with old slow outdated programing to show some porn on our handheld devices than we are in a human life. Even one that features as many amazing and world changing contributions as Jobs.

It is called compassion, or maybe empathy, and we ran out decades ago.

Maybe the bonobos will get to try next after we kill ourselves off fighting over flash, gay marriage, and the right to arm bears.