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unconfirmed that the issue arises from the TLC nand itself..
could be a controller issue, driver issue, trim issue....
whole host of things - doubt it's from overwriting TLD nand

Well whatever but Apple is switching from TLC to MLC according to MR and other tech sites.
 
I have to laugh about the MLC vs. TLC stuff. In photography we discussed SLC vs. MLC for years, noting that SLC was more rugged and much faster. Now that there's TLC, people are holding up MLC as if it's pro-grade stuff. Everything is relative, I guess. TLC can sustain fewer write cycles than MLC, but if you look at the numbers we're still talking years upon years of constant writing before blocks reach their limit.

Look at it this way: we're using TLC in SSDs used in computers, which are experiencing far more write activity per day than an iPad. They're holding up just fine. Yes, it's disappointing that the Air 2 might have slightly slower storage performance than the first Air, but I can't say that I notice it in my daily usage. It's a beautiful device and it's still the fastest iOS device I've owned, easily outperforming my iPhone 5S and iPad Mini 2 (and far exceeding the iPad 3 that it replaced).

Why would you be overreacting when Apple stopped using TLC Nand because of reported issues? If a big company reacts to issues by deciding not to use certain components because of potential issues then it's a problem.

Aren't some of the respring's and reboots and app crashes users are experiencing related to TLC? There was a big thread started here on MR related to issues with TLC apart from speed issues.
The reports indicated that Apple was switching from Toshiba to Samsung. There was speculation that there would be a switch from TLC to MLC, but it's more likely that the problems were due to the controller than to the fact that TLC was used over MLC. Samsung is a leader in flash storage and was one of the first to produce TLC storage solutions; it makes sense that Apple would go with them.
 
Wish I could see it that way. Instead to be happy to have the newest ipad I'm testing how many seconds it's slower or faster. But I don't pay almost 1k on a device to have lesser quality components in the end.

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When did you buy yours? Just recent?

I have two of the 128Gb Air 2 units with cellular and not one of them have rebooted. That is all that really matters to me, a few seconds will make little difference.

If the $1K was that much money to you, you should have spent it else where as $1K seldom buys perfect anything. Apple is darn close if not there.
 
I have two of the 128Gb Air 2 units with cellular and not one of them have rebooted. That is all that really matters to me, a few seconds will make little difference.

If the $1K was that much money to you, you should have spent it else where as $1K seldom buys perfect anything. Apple is darn close if not there.

So it would be ok for you if our ipads have TLC and the ones they buy in some weeks have MLC? And did you not upgrade to have a faster device? Whats the point to buy the air 2 if the Air 1 is basically faster in transferring big files? I use alot of big video files, and really there is a big difference while transferring them.
I dont understand why they choose a slower nand and are trying to convince us it is faster. Maybe in alot of small tasks its faster. But if you download a movie direct on the air 2 and open it in a other player, it takes forever till the movie is transferred. While constantly the air 1 outperforms the air 2 by minimum of 30-40 Seconds. In computer world 30 seconds are a very long time :(
 
So it would be ok for you if our ipads have TLC and the ones they buy in some weeks have MLC? And did you not upgrade to have a faster device? Whats the point to buy the air 2 if the Air 1 is basically faster in transferring big files? I use alot of big video files, and really there is a big difference while transferring them.
I dont understand why they choose a slower nand and are trying to convince us it is faster. Maybe in alot of small tasks its faster. But if you download a movie direct on the air 2 and open it in a other player, it takes forever till the movie is transferred. While constantly the air 1 outperforms the air 2 by minimum of 30-40 Seconds. In computer world 30 seconds are a very long time :(

I bought the Air 2 units for their CPU performance, too. Transferring large files is not a concern for me. If you are that unhappy return it but I doubt you will find one with th RAM of your choice.

I predict you will remain unhappy.

Happy Holidays.
 
I bought the Air 2 units for their CPU performance, too. Transferring large files is not a concern for me. If you are that unhappy return it but I doubt you will find one with th RAM of your choice.

I predict you will remain unhappy.

Happy Holidays.

Im not unhappy, just disapointet. Guess im to much into tech details. But yes the device itself its awesome. Im lucky to else have catched a almost perfect unit. The display is perfect. Its light and all of that. But i compare it to my first air, it seems the air1 is more robust and the speakers are way better.
 
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I've got a 128GB Wifi purchased from an Apple Store the weekend after they were released and get the following using the Passmark benchmark tool

Write: 177 MByte / Second
Read: 1040 MByte / Second

There's no way I'm ever going to install an app from an unofficial source (far too big a risk of getting malware) to check what sort of SSD I've got and I'm perfectly happy with those speeds - they're hardly slow for a tablet :)
 
But i compare it to my first air, it seems the air1 is more robust and the speakers are way better.

Really? After playing with the air 2 in the stores i thought it was more robust when touching on the screen than the air 1 and its hollowness. Now the screen felt truly premium again.

Also, whats the lifespan of the TLC memory compared to MLC with moderate to high usage? (lets say 4 / 5 hours a day)
 
After i got the iPad Air 2 i was very happy with my new device. Its the 128GB with sim card. I still own my iPad Air 1 so i started to make some experiments.
After i saw that the iPhone 6 Plus with 128Gb use inferior TLC nand i told myself check your new pad and i was shocked to see its also TLC. At first i told myself its sure not a big diffrence. So i took a video file that is 1700MB big and installed it via itunes. The iPad Air one transfered the file in 47 Seconds. The iPad Air 2 use 58 Seconds. Than i used a file that is 450MB big. This one took one the Air 14 seconds. On the Air 2 18 Seconds. So without any doubt the used nand is slower. Im very very disapointet by Apple. And the most ridiculous thing is that the ones that have buyed the 16gb version of the iPad Air 2 got the better MLC nand. We that payed a premium price are the loosers. And the best is Apple is planning to put in future I pads the better MLC again. We the early buyers are the loosers. Since the iPhone 3GS I bought every apple product. I'm guessing it's time to quit.

According to Anandtech in depth review, iPad air 2's NAND are quite fast.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8666/the-apple-ipad-air-2-review/4

Actually I don't know which model they used.

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Im not sure if they can change the tlc nand cause it uses 33% less room. Maybe that how they achieved to make the ipad that thinn. Its crazy

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Its Not just much slower, it have a much shorter lifespan.

Shorter lifespan? Are you serious ? If MLC lifespan is 8/9 years, TLC will be 6/7 years. Still much more than you are going to keep your iPad.

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Anyone with more than 16GB don't even have to bother testing. All 64GB plus are TLC.
I MEAN ALL IPAD AIR 2 ARE TLC that have more than 16GB

This thread is misleading.
TLC NAND doesn't automatically mean something bad.
Samsung's 840 ssd series use TLC NAND, are very popular, fast and reliable.

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Well thanks for the info. I guess it's going back. I will run the test anyway but no way am I keeping a device with faulty components. I lived thru the Nvidia GPU fiasco awhile back.

So basically you are assuming that TLC means defective NAND?
Dude is this thread for real?
The most popular ssd sold in the world uses TLC NAND.....

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They are not actually faulty parts but slower. Was hoping this fiasco was only on the iPhones.

TLC aren't always slower than MLC. that's just not true.
 
Is this really a concern? I have the Wifi only 128gb i Pad Air 2, it seems fine to me but then again I dont carry a stop watch to see how fast files xfer. If I can get 5 years out of it (i.e. checking emails, few game apps and web surfing) Id be happy.
 
According to Anandtech in depth review, iPad air 2's NAND are quite fast.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8666/the-apple-ipad-air-2-review/4

Actually I don't know which model they used.

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Shorter lifespan? Are you serious ? If MLC lifespan is 8/9 years, TLC will be 6/7 years. Still much more than you are going to keep your iPad.

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This thread is misleading.
TLC NAND doesn't automatically mean something bad.
Samsung's 840 ssd series use TLC NAND, are very popular, fast and reliable.

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So basically you are assuming that TLC means defective NAND?
Dude is this thread for real?
The most popular ssd sold in the world uses TLC NAND.....

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TLC aren't always slower than MLC. that's just not true.

Thank you for setting us all straight. The Apple Defense Force strikes again. :p
 
Do you think I'm overreacting? My girlfriend says I'm crazy :)

Definitely.
Data corrupted during transfer due to a bad batch of NAND is one thing.
Hysteria about a different technology used in higher capacity NAND is a totally different matter.

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Thank you for setting us all straight. The Apple Defense Force strikes again. :p

You just need to understand what TLC stand for.... But I know, most of the complainers on this forum just doesn't know.
 
Well thanks for the info. I guess it's going back. I will run the test anyway but no way am I keeping a device with faulty components. I lived thru the Nvidia GPU fiasco awhile back.

I believe all iPhone 6 and 6 Plus 64/128 use TLC, unsure about the iPad.

The TLC ram is not faulty and its not a design fault, so I doubt you can replace it.

I am very disappointed that they improved the space but downgrading a speed component, probably assuming the user will not know as the CPU is faster, and its sold as faster and thinner.And it hasn't been officially confirmed by Apple?
 
I believe all iPhone 6 and 6 Plus 64/128 use TLC, unsure about the iPad.

The TLC ram is not faulty and its not a design fault, so I doubt you can replace it.

I am very disappointed that they improved the space but downgrading a speed component, probably assuming the user will not know as the CPU is faster, and its sold as faster and thinner.And it hasn't been officially confirmed by Apple?

If TLC isn't a problem then why is Apple moving back to MLC?
 
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This is a pretty academic discussion. iPad are designed to all operate the same within a model type/year not unlike a game console. So regardless what the innards are composed of all the iPad Air 2 will perform the same.

I remember a similar scandal when the original Sony PlayStation switched to a cheaper (slightly slower) memory type and in hindsight nobody ever noticed the slightest difference.
 
If TLC isn't a problem then why is Apple moving back to MLC?

Agreed. I wonder if this is similar to the un-announced bump the iPad 2 had a few years ago, when Apple went from a 45 nm chip to a 32 nm chip.

There would have to be a valid reason for Apple changing from TLC to MLC.
 
If TLC isn't a problem then why is Apple moving back to MLC?
I'll say it again: please re-read that news rumor. The only thing that was confirmed was going from Toshiba to Samsung, not TLC to MLC. Toshiba's memory controllers are likely at fault, not the fact that it's TLC. As was mentioned previously, TLC is used in Samsung's 840 EVO line of SSDs. These are not slow, unreliable drives. Don't be afraid of the technology just because it's newer.
 
I'll say it again: please re-read that news rumor. The only thing that was confirmed was going from Toshiba to Samsung, not TLC to MLC. Toshiba's memory controllers are likely at fault, not the fact that it's TLC. As was mentioned previously, TLC is used in Samsung's 840 EVO line of SSDs. These are not slow, unreliable drives. Don't be afraid of the technology just because it's newer.


TLC is not newer. The new thing is that they use it in smartphones. Before they where used in cheap usb sticks.
Since Samsung made the 840 drives more companys are following samsung. Still like i said before, the MLC in the air 1 is faster. I tryed it myself. Thats disapointing.
 
If TLC isn't a problem then why is Apple moving back to MLC?
Let's not forget that this is nothing but a rumor based on anonymous sources who supposedly told this to something called "Business Korea" (that's the single source for all the web sites who reported on it). There's probably more behind the story.

In any case, has anybody noticed any performance issues with the Air 2 in the real world? I certainly haven't. ;)
 
Let's not forget that this is nothing but a rumor based on anonymous sources who supposedly told this to something called "Business Korea" (that's the single source for all the web sites who reported on it). There's probably more behind the story.

In any case, has anybody noticed any performance issues with the Air 2 in the real world? I certainly haven't. ;)

I just cant believe OP is loosing sleep over it I wonder what chunk of his life is missing going from a MLC to TLC. My iPad Air 2 works perfectly so far :)
 
iPad Air 2 use very slow TLC nand

I just cant believe OP is loosing sleep over it I wonder what chunk of his life is missing going from a MLC to TLC. My iPad Air 2 works perfectly so far :)


Like i sayed before. I was just disappointed that my Air 1 is faster in transferring big files. Faster by a good margin.

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And my only concern is that after i bought mine with TLC NAND, they use later the MLC NAND again. That would for sure make me pissed.
 
Like i sayed before. I was just disappointed that my Air 1 is faster in transferring big files. Faster by a good margin.

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And my only concern is that after i bought mine with TLC NAND, they use later the MLC NAND again. That would for sure make me pissed.

your gf has alot of patience putting up with you and getting so upset over something so so so small...it really is ridiculous. There are other things in life that should be of more concern to you the a micro chip. Sounds ridiculous ugh thats cause it is lol...hope you sleep at night bud :)
 
your gf has alot of patience putting up with you and getting so upset over something so so so small...it really is ridiculous. There are other things in life that should be of more concern to you the a micro chip. Sounds ridiculous ugh thats cause it is lol...hope you sleep at night bud :)


Hehe OK OK I understand. I should just forgett the hole thing. Maybe your all right. I will give it a try ;)
 
If TLC isn't a problem then why is Apple moving back to MLC?

There are no proofs about Apple moving back to MLC on 128 Gb models. No proofs.
And even if it is true, and as today it's not, it just can be due to a faulty batch by a subcontractor.
There is nothing inherently wrong in 128 Gb TLC NAND.
But for sure you have to understand what a TLC NAND is to understand that, and it clearly isn't your case.
 
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