iPad Competitors Begin to Disappear Even Before Being Released

[applesupergeek]

Wow, you might want to check Macrumors' rule about personal insults being punishable with instant ban. Hopefully, some people WILL report your unnecessary ranting. I don't think that this kind of a simplistic and hurtful dirt-throwing is what Macrumors needs.

I certainly don't, and since some of the insult was directly aimed at me, I demand an apology.

From how you see the world, I obviously belong to the "pc side". Meanwhile, in my office, there is no PC at all, but Macs only and a couple of other Apple hardware items. I'm not making guesses about your personal circumstances and bedroom setups, but I have to say that you sound very immature.

Nice job with with the red emphasis. Feel free to report it, I didn't insult you, the moronic comment was used generically not about your comment , the second paragraph refers to your comment. Btw, it's hilarious how you red marked "pc apologists" as an insult, I 've been called an apple apologist countless times here, and it's a mac forum! You also highlighted "trash talking apple" as an insult, talk about pc? Anyway engadget is a moronic site, I have every right to call them that. They can sue me. As for referring to some general inane posting that has been going a lot here recently, wait let me understand this, anyone can come here and make garbage comments and iyho and I don't have the right to say that inane comments had been made?

Anyway, you are a piece of work man, you demand an apology when I did not insult you and thev you trying to mock by bedding arrangements, and all the politicaly correct crap, was really hilarious too, "pc apologist" is now officially an insult...

 

[mags631]

Pink: vaporware ideas to distract from NeXT; never shipped.

Taligent: vaporous, but did ship a product, just not what was intended.

Copland: unfinished, aborted features; shipped and revoked a developer preview that was later salvaged.

Gershwin: absolute vaporware.

How about Dylan?

Copland is probably the biggest vaporware in that list (System 8).

But that was like what, 14 years ago?! Bravo.

 

[powers74]

back to the future

I actually thought the Courier was an interesting and innovative approach by MS -- until I saw the old video of Apple's Knowledge Navigator.

Jay

Yeah, funny how courier resembled K.N. so closely in form factor. Funny Apple has actually *sort of* delivered on K.N. albeit two decades later.

 

[omahajim]

removed

 

[applesupergeek]

Uh oh, out come the "Look, I own Macs!" photos!

Really? His saying "PC apologists" is hurtful?

Wow. You should check out a Windows user forum sometime and see what they say about Mac users.




I've seen comments on this forum that "demanded an apology," but I don't see that anywhere in his comment that you quoted (and I assume it's the red text that got you agitated). I don't see any personal attacks on you. And what's wrong with a little colorful anti-Microsoft derision? Heaven knows we see plenty of anti-Apple derision around here (though I've not seen you complain about that).

What's the big deal?

Hey thanks for standing up for me here. It's so sad that if you go to a pc forum the shear garbage, smearing and hatred about apple is just overwhelming, and even here where it's supposed to be a mac rumor the moderating is doing absolutely nothing to stop the trolling (only when it gets really out of hand) by the pc side, so here too, like you said, we get plenty of apple derision.

But in a funny way (because for mr hit counts rule, nothing else), as soon as you try to have some fun against MS, you get at least one guy to jump on you, and probably an infraction by a mod. I recently had some fun by opening a thread describing how craptastic the specs for the hp slate, well the now vapourware, were, how apple outpriced them and outperformed them in every single one, and how acer was wise to not compete, and you can't believe the amount of people that jumped on me, they were calling me all sorts of insults, left right and center, and they got nothing and I got my thread locked and thrown to the wasteland, and infraction.

Appleinsider is were I post by far more often than here, much older people, they can take a joke, and their very lax and not pc in their moderating. But sometimes you get the occasional good poster here too that's why I 've not abandoned this site completely. But the quality here sure leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Niko03]

I really hope HP do not postpone the Slate and launch it with Win 7. Only tablet this year that seemed half decent.

It seems they've postponed the launch, therefore it wasn't a viable/competetive product.

 

[kernkraft]

What's the big deal?

So you don't find that an insult? "Moronic (3x), crap, idiots..." this is the kind of language and this is the attitude that just makes any post pointless. EVEN if it had some valid points. I think 'idiot' is actually referred to in the rules as an insulting term.




Thanks, eidorian.

I wouldn't want to put them as a signature, I never liked the idea of listing computer hardware as a signature. It's too personal! The middle one is actually a first-gen unibody MBP with 2.4GHz. The screen was so poor that as soon the 13" MBPs came out with Firewire, I sold the MB for an MBP. I have a couple of pics about old white MBs and more Airs/MBP, but obviously, people still believe that you are an "Apple hater" and an "MS fanboy", just because... well, just because.

 

[cmaier]

I really hope HP do not postpone the Slate and launch it with Win 7. Only tablet this year that seemed half decent.

Yes. It seems exactly 50% decent.

 

[Eidorian]

Thanks, eidorian.

I wouldn't want to put them as a signature, I never liked the idea of listing computer hardware as a signature. It's too personal! The middle one is actually a first-gen unibody MBP with 2.4GHz. The screen was so poor that as soon the 13" MBPs came out with Firewire, I sold the MB for an MBP. I have a couple of pics about old white MBs and more Airs/MBP, but obviously, people still believe that you are an "Apple hater" and an "MS fanboy", just because... well, just because.

I believe I pointed out what has happened to me in an earlier thread. I had my hardware in my signature but I decided to remove it from now on. Things get easily blown out of proportion around here.

 

[LagunaSol]

even here where it's supposed to be a mac rumor the moderating is doing absolutely nothing to stop the trolling (only when it gets really out of hand) by the pc side, so here too, like you said, we get plenty of apple derision.

I do find the unabated trolling disturbing. The trolls will cry "differing viewpoints" as they toss their endless stinkbombs. There's disagreement, and there's trolling, and the trolling is certainly on the rise. I've found out the hard way that if you engage the trolls too vigorously, you end up in time out (while they remain unfettered to spread their thread-destroying mayhem).

Appleinsider is were I post by far more often than here, much older people, they can take a joke, and their very lax and not pc in their moderating. But sometimes you get the occasional good poster here too that's why I 've not abandoned this site completely. But the quality here sure leaves a lot to be desired.

I may have to give them a try. The quality of discussion here has certainly gone downhill. I feel like I'm sparring with the anti-Apple trolls on Engadget. Who'd a thunk you'd have to hear PSAs for Microsoft Windows and never-ending anti-Apple vitriol on MacRumors?

Strange days.

So you don't find that an insult? "Moronic (3x), crap, idiots..." this is the kind of language and this is the attitude that just makes any post pointless. EVEN if it had some valid points. I think 'idiot' is actually referred to in the rules as an insulting term.

He never said you're an idiot. He didn't call you an idiot directly. Geez, we could all take offense at every post if we wanted to lump ourselves into some general group that was being lambasted.

Some people clearly go over the top and deserve to be reported (and banned), like the recent poster who, amid other colorful language in a rapid barrage of posts, told his/her debate foe to do society a favor and commit suicide (or something like that). That person deserved to be banned, and rightfully was.

Have you seen some of the names Steve Jobs has been called on this forum?

 

[kresh]

Hey thanks for standing up for me here. It's so sad that if you go to a pc forum the shear garbage, smearing and hatred about apple is just overwhelming, and even here where it's supposed to be a mac rumor the moderating is doing absolutely nothing to stop the trolling (only when it gets really out of hand) by the pc side, so here too, like you said, we get plenty of apple derision.

But in a funny way (because for mr hit counts rule, nothing else), as soon as you try to have some fun against MS, you get at least one guy to jump on you, and probably an infraction by a mod. I recently had some fun by opening a thread describing how craptastic the specs for the hp slate, well the now vapourware, were, how apple outpriced them and outperformed them in every single one, and how acer was wise to not compete, and you can't believe the amount of people that jumped on me, they were calling me all sorts of insults, left right and center, and they got nothing and I got my thread locked and thrown to the wasteland, and infraction.

Appleinsider is were I post by far more often than here, much older people, they can take a joke, and their very lax and not pc in their moderating. But sometimes you get the occasional good poster here too that's why I 've not abandoned this site completely. But the quality here sure leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel your pain. In the past year or so I have started to use the ignore list out of necessity to tune out the trolls. I never have to use the ignore list on sites like AppleInsider. I'm not saying AI is better moderated, but the trolls do seem to be quickly identified and dealt with there.

Macrumors used to be a wonderful site to come to for help, advice, and to keep a finger on the pulse for all things Apple. Now I feel like it is just a mud slinging match.

 

[Eidorian]

I may have to give them a try. The quality of discussion here has certainly gone downhill. I feel like I'm sparring with the anti-Apple trolls on Engadget. Who'd a thunk you'd have to hear PSAs for Microsoft Windows and never-ending anti-Apple vitriol on MacRumors?

Strange days.

I'm sure you'd love /g/ then.

Surprisingly enough with green text, implying implications, and image macros everyone seems to remember when Apple was good and no one hates the iMac G4.

There was a rather lengthy discussion on Thuban vs. Sandy Bridge vs. Bulldozer/Fusion as well.

 

[LagunaSol]

I'm sure you'd love /g/ then.

I have no idea what that means. Can you elaborate?

 

[applesupergeek]

How about Dylan?

Copland is probably the biggest vaporware in that list (System 8).

But that was like what, 14 years ago?! Bravo.

Good points he's made some big misrepresentations there.

Plus you have to point out to him, that vapourware is one thing, and product developing into another is quite another. Copeland was not a vapourware project (and Gershwin was an extension of copeland, not separate "vapourware") , because lots of its technologies did make their way into OS X, it was just a project gone wrong, but it materialised into something else, quite distinct, but sharing a lot concepts with copeland. Apple didnt promise to ship an OS that didn't ship at all, they did ship a great OS ultimately in OS X, but of course it was late, not that any of the competition had anything much better out at around that time. The fact that they strategically chose to switch gears, keep the current os, and eventually come out with a great product that was OS X was a wise strategy.

He should read this as per wiki for an example of how copeland technolgies did materialize in a new os:

development of System 7.5 continued, with a number of technologies originally slated for Copland being incorporated into the base OS. Apple embarked on a buying campaign, acquiring the rights to various third-party system enhancements and integrating them into the OS. The Extensions Manager, hierarchal Apple menu, collapsing windows, the menu bar clock, sticky notes — all were developed outside of Apple. Stability and performance was improved by Mac OS 7.6, which dropped the "System" moniker.[25] Eventually, many features developed for Copland, including the new Finder and support for themes (the default Platinum was the only theme included) were rolled into Mac OS 7.7, which was rebranded as Mac OS 8.
With the return of Jobs, this rebranding also allowed Apple to exploit a legal loophole to terminate third-party manufacturers' licenses to System 7 and effectively shut down the Macintosh clone market.[26] Later, Mac OS 8.1 finally added the new filesystem and Mac OS 8.6 updated the nanokernel to handle preemptive tasks. Its interface was Multiprocessing Services 2.x and later, but there was still no process separation and the system still used cooperative multitasking between processes. Even a process that was Multiprocessing Services-aware still had a portion that ran in the blue box, a task that also ran all single-threaded programs (and the only task that could run 68k code).
A number of features originally seen in Copland demos, including its advanced Find command, built-in Internet browser, and support for video-conferencing, have reappeared in recent releases of Mac OS X as Spotlight, Safari, and iChat AV, respectively, although the implementation and user interface for each feature is completely different.

That's not vapourware, it's r&d.

He also misrepresented pink, that was not a separate vapourware, it developed directly into taligent, and whatever your views on that taligent was not vapourware. Pink was a research project above all, then apple were developing blue too that did turn into system 7.

And we are talking here about the computer industry, which is notorious for side stepping something or evolving it into something else.

And as the op pointed out to you, you had to go back 14 years to find anything that could be misconstrued as vapourware.

 

[Eidorian]

I have no idea what that means. Can you elaborate?

I was being sarcastic in all honesty. It's a silly place. Though the thread on MacRumors after MacWorld San Fransisco 2009 was pretty good until it was closed. Oh well.

 

[kresh]

Good points he's made some big misrepresentations there.

Plus you have to point out to him, that vapourware is one thing, and product developing into another is quite another. Copeland was not a vapourware project (and Gershwin was an extension of copeland, not separate "vapourware") , because lots of its technologies did make their way into OS X, it was just a project gone wrong, but it materialised into something else, quite distinct, but sharing a lot concepts with copeland. Apple didnt promise to ship an OS that didn't ship at all, they did ship a great OS ultimately in OS X, but of course it was late, not that any of the competition had anything much better out at around that time. The fact that they strategically chose to switch gears, keep the current os, and eventually come out with a great product that was OS X was a wise strategy.

He should read this as per wiki for an example of how copeland technolgies did materialize in a new os:



That's not vapourware, it's r&d.

He also misrepresented pink, that was not a separate vapourware, it developed directly into taligent, and whatever your views on that taligent was not vapourware. Pink was a research project above all, then apple were developing blue too that did turn into system 7.

And we are talking here about the computer industry, which is notorious for side stepping something or evolving it into something else.

And as the op pointed out to you, you had to go back 14 years to find anything that could be misconstrued as vapourware.

The difference in my mind is that even if one wants to call Pink or Copeland vaporware, they still were not done just to freeze the market. The real insidious effect that Microsoft always sought to achieve with their vaporware was to freeze the market and keep customers from moving away.

Apple was really searching for the next os, they had to, despite the inept management versus Microsoft consistently freezing markets with vaporware they had no intention to release.

 

[LagunaSol]

I feel your pain. In the past year or so I have started to use the ignore list out of necessity to tune out the trolls. I never have to use the ignore list on sites like AppleInsider. I'm not saying AI is better moderated, but the trolls do seem to be quickly identified and dealt with there.

MacRumors could certainly use a fresh coat of paint and a tech upgrade.

The ignore feature is too cumbersome to be effective. I don't want all the mouse click gymnastics to clear the never-ending flow of trolls on this site. Give me a button next to their name. Click. Ignored.

Once that user is on X number of readers' ignore lists, an alert is sent to a mod to see if it's genuine disagreement or simple antagonism. Then time out or ban.

And if a user ends up on XX number of readers' ignore lists, instant kick.

One big problem is even if someone is on your ignore list, you still get their posts via email if you're subscribed to the thread. And of course you get to see all their nonsense in the thread itself anyway, as everyone is busy quoting them in order to respond.

There's healthy debate and there's intentional agitation, and of the latter there is far too much of. I'm all for healthy debate - and truly enjoy it - but I'm tired of the mass of trolls (astroturfers, et al) that roam the place and wipe their boogers on all the walls.

 

[applesupergeek]

I feel your pain. In the past year or so I have started to use the ignore list out of necessity to tune out the trolls. I never have to use the ignore list on sites like AppleInsider. I'm not saying AI is better moderated, but the trolls do seem to be quickly identified and dealt with there.

Macrumors used to be a wonderful site to come to for help, advice, and to keep a finger on the pulse for all things Apple. Now I feel like it is just a mud slinging match.

Glad, we share common sentiments here guys, makes a difference to know there are good posters here too. I too have been using the ignore list very often nowadays, and I didn't think I would, ever, I though it would be kinda impolite to have someone reply to you, and you not giving him the time of day, or letting him/her know they are being ignored. But I mean you have to nowadays. Another funny bit is that I got an infraction for informing posters from the pc side who wear clearly trolling that I was adding them to my ignore list. In his infinite wisdom the moderator mkrishnan informed me that:

Also, just to be clear, as far as the ignore list goes, you are right, it is your perogative to use it, and it is there for that purpose. Actually, I encourage people who are having ongoing difficulties with particular forum members to consider using it. What is not okay is advertising your ignore list or pointing out who you are ignoring in a thread as a back-handed way of insulting them. Just put them on your ignore list and be done with it.

To be fair, another moderator that I 've dealt with annk, has always been very genuinely polite and helpful.

P.S. And look how this thread turned out, just for poking fun at the vapourware that we've been hearing about ad nausem in apple community forums of all places, and saying the inane posts I 'd read about them someone took offence, and another one insulted me on my living conditions of all things... And the thread was of course derailed. But of course it's the moderators fault: How many threads on the courrier and the hp slate have been posted over the past weeks in the ipad subforum, I would wager more than a 100. I've told moderators, what on earth do these threads have to do in mac community forums, and within the ipad forums other than inciting and inviting trolling and food fights. Of course they ignored my suggestion to make an other manufacturers subforum. So now it's an open invitation to anyone of the pc apple hating trolling crowd (and there are so many of them) to just go into any sub forum and start threads of the type, hey look at that sweet device I got from X competitor - let me tell you what expensive crap apple sell to all you sheeps btw. I don't see apple product threads in hp subforums? Yet here it's anything goes...

 

[cmaier]

How about a count next to their names, indicating how many people have them on their ignore lists?

MacRumors could certainly use a fresh coat of paint and a tech upgrade.

The ignore feature is too cumbersome to be effective. I don't want all the mouse click gymnastics to clear the never-ending flow of trolls on this site. Give me a button next to their name. Click. Ignored.

Once that user is on X number of readers' ignore lists, an alert is sent to a mod to see if it's genuine disagreement or simple antagonism. Then time out or ban.

And if a user ends up on XX number of readers' ignore lists, instant kick.

One big problem is even if someone is on your ignore list, you still get their posts via email if you're subscribed to the thread. And of course you get to see all their nonsense in the thread itself anyway, as everyone is busy quoting them in order to respond.

There's healthy debate and there's intentional agitation, and of the latter there is far too much of. I'm all for healthy debate - and truly enjoy it - but I'm tired of the mass of trolls (astroturfers, et al) that roam the place and wipe their boogers on all the walls.

 

[kresh]

MacRumors could certainly use a fresh coat of paint and a tech upgrade.

The ignore feature is too cumbersome to be effective. I don't want all the mouse click gymnastics to clear the never-ending flow of trolls on this site. Give me a button next to their name. Click. Ignored.

Once that user is on X number of readers' ignore lists, an alert is sent to a mod to see if it's genuine disagreement or simple antagonism. Then time out or ban.

And if a user ends up on XX number of readers' ignore lists, instant kick.

One big problem is even if someone is on your ignore list, you still get their posts via email if you're subscribed to the thread. And of course you get to see all their nonsense in the thread itself anyway, as everyone is busy quoting them in order to respond.

There's healthy debate and there's intentional agitation, and of the latter there is far too much of. I'm all for healthy debate - and truly enjoy it - but I'm tired of the mass of trolls (astroturfers, et al) that roam the place and wipe their boogers on all the walls.

I agree with everything you have said, but I don't see any changes on the horizon. When MacRumors was a hobby for Arn it seemed to be well moderated. When Arn quit his medical practice and went full time on MR and TA it seems that it is more imperative to get more users, ad impressions, and clicks. I am not saying that is wrong, it is his to do with as he pleases, but it has lost the magic that attracted me here to begin with.

 

[Bytor65]

How about a count next to their names, indicating how many people have them on their ignore lists?

That would be helpful. As we need something to ignore threads they start. My ignore list keeps growing so I don't auto recognize every name on it and still get suckered into their threads.

 

[applesupergeek]

How about a count next to their names, indicating how many people have them on their ignore lists?

I wouldn't consider this a good idea, it might create more of problem than solve one, although I agree with the X number of ignores count to appear somewhere in the profile, and be taken into account, and of course a simple click on the user name to add to ignore, having to search the name is your user cp, is just way to cumbersome, I 've wanted to use the ignore feature so many times, but I just couldn't be bothered to go to that lengths...

Plus in order to be pro-active I would like to see a favourite user easy click, there are lot of people here that I 'd like to be aware I 've read and liked their posting style, but it's such a large forum that's so hard to keep track of nicks, or I am getting to old for it anyway. That might actually be even more helpful than the ignore feature, as you could just read posts and threads from people you like reading their posts.

 

[Eidorian]

Glad, we share common sentiments here guys, makes a difference to know there are good posters here too. I too have been using the ignore list very often nowadays, and I didn't think I would, ever, I though it would be kinda impolite to have someone reply to you, and you not giving him the time of day, or letting him/her know they are being ignored. But I mean you have to nowadays. Another funny bit is that I got an infraction for informing posters from the pc side who wear clearly trolling that I was adding them to my ignore list. In his infinite wisdom the moderator mkrishnan informed me that:



To be fair, another moderator that I 've dealt with annk, has always been very genuinely polite and helpful.

P.S. And look how this thread turned out, just for poking fun at the vapourware that we've been hearing about ad nausem in apple community forums of all places, and saying the inane posts I 'd read about them someone took offence, and another one insulted me on my living conditions of all things... And the thread was of course derailed. But of course it's the moderators fault: How many threads on the courrier and the hp slate have been posted over the past weeks in the ipad subforum, I would wager more than a 100. I've told moderators, what on earth do these threads have to do in mac community forums, and within the ipad forums other than inciting and inviting trolling and food fights. Of course they ignored my suggestion to make an other manufacturers subforum. So now it's an open invitation to anyone of the pc apple hating trolling crowd (and there are so many of them) to just go into any sub forum and start threads of the type, hey look at that sweet device I got from X competitor - let me tell you what expensive crap apple sell to all you sheeps btw. I don't see apple product threads in hp subforums? Yet here it's anything goes...

The "vaporware back slapping comedy" came out of nowhere for me. It was rather tiresome to see it repeated ad nausem.

 

[LagunaSol]

Also, just to be clear, as far as the ignore list goes, you are right, it is your perogative to use it, and it is there for that purpose. Actually, I encourage people who are having ongoing difficulties with particular forum members to consider using it. What is not okay is advertising your ignore list or pointing out who you are ignoring in a thread as a back-handed way of insulting them. Just put them on your ignore list and be done with it.

Hmm, I was not aware of that policy. Guess I'd better tread more lightly in that regard. I have often mentioned the Ignore list regarding the more egregious trolls - not as a "backhanded insult" per se, more of a "Hey fellow MacRumors readers - you don't have to put up with this nonsense if you don't want to" PSA.

The ignore function truly is too cumbersome (and obscure) to be of any real help though.

 

[applesupergeek]

The "vaporware back slapping comedy" came out of nowhere for me. It was rather tiresome to see it repeated ad nausem.

Where was it repeated ad nauseam, here? And how did it come out of nowhere? Go read the thread at ai, it's fun and hilarious, and it's completely called for, for all the trash talking apple gets from pc pundits and sites like engadgets, to see their two main competitors concurrently declaring the've been pulling the wool over the users with vapourware products, while at the same time paying everyone left right and center for an "opinion" to thwart the ipad train. This is as well as dishonest, and rather pathetic, really hilarious too. Not to mention if apple were in their place and had faltered so badly, they would get literally hammered for ages by the pc rags, and everyone would feel entitled to make them the laughing stock for months, even years, and this thread would 50 times it's size and be choke full of trolling. And suddenly you 've become so sensitive to hp and ms.

Apple go as far as not wanting the crappy mobile flash on the idevices, and everyone jumps on them and vilifies them (for what? for going with a better open standard) while adobe snubbed apple's requests for a cocoa up to par cs suite for the mac for ages, and no one bat an eyelid. And Steve Jobs has to write a personal letter of explanation for it, and everyone's at his back, while the competition can flood the rags with vapourware they damn well know they are not releasing any time soon, and then not as much as but as eyelid when they turn out vapourware, and issue hilariously dishonest statements such as "oh it's in our dna to innovate here at microsoft, it was just a project we had". Well next time you **** (i dont want to be rude) if it's just project don't leak it to every major news outlet and do cgis of it just to get something going for the nothing you currently have, keep that innovative dna working and come up with a product when you got it. Cause I mean this vapourware feature promise strategy with MS is just one of their sad staples as a company.