iPad Pro 2, Oct 2016, Thoughts?

[SteveJobzniak]

The iPad Pro is a first generation product evolved from 6th or so generation hardware. But no matter how much some people want to say it isn't a 1st generation product, it unfortunately is the first time Apple has created a laptop-size tablet meant for creative professionals. This is the first generation.

People will now figure out what it can and cannot do. What the apps can do. And what features it needs.

Following the regular 11-12 month release interval of Oct/Nov each year, we will see the iPad Pro 2 in Oct 2016.

I can guarantee that it will inevitably run OS X someday. Maybe not in the 2nd generation, but no later than the 3rd, if Apple wants to remain relevant. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. OS X and iOS use the same Mach UNIX kernel, same kernel extension architecture and filesystem, they just run different userland graphical interfaces. But Apple has done their best to make OS X touch-ready, by introducing Launchpad, iCloud, Notification Center, Fullscreen, Split Fullscreen (Capitan), and Universal Binaries. And now large-enough tablet screens to fit the whole OS plus the external iPad Pro keyboard to prepare it for controlling OS X. A future universal binary will not be PowerPC+Intel. It will be ARM+Intel.

The question is not if. It's when. The iPad Pro's use of iOS makes it look like a comically oversized toy. Like an iPod Touch put through a magnifying glass. It's begging for a more advanced OS.

I think iPad Pro 2 is still going to be a bit too early for Apple to dare to bring OS X to the tablet world and catch up with Microsoft's multi-year lead. But I doubt it will take their brilliant engineers anymore than 2 years (iPad Pro 3, 2017). OS X is already running on ARM in internal builds, for sure. Anything else would be braindead. And Apple aren't braindead.

So if they aren't going to bring OS X to iPad Pro 2, what do you think they *will* change after a year of professional use?

My predictions:
-64GB flash base model, since flash gets cheaper and larger all the time, and 256 or 512GB as the top model.
-Higher resolution screen. This is dubious but they may try to reach 4K for some dumb-consumer reason. As if we need it in a 13 inch tablet.
-Next generation ARM with 30-50% higher CPU performance and 2-3x higher GPU performance, to better handle all the pixels on the huge display. This will be vital when app makers realize how much juice it takes to render all of the iPad Pro's pixels.
-Twice as much RAM since more and more desktop class apps will demand it. The IPP's 4GB is pathetically iOS-centric and will ensure the Pro 1 cannot be grandfathered in to any OS X support (this reveals planned obsolescence of the iPad "Pro" 1). The Surface Pro has up to 16GB RAM.
-Fixes for all the inevitable hardware and manufacturing flaws that will be discovered in this 1 month old product. Putting it into the hands of millions of people always reveals things not found internally.

I salute everyone who bought the first generation before Apple has seen what people need from the product. Considered doing it myself, but since I only use iPads to control music mixers I'll wait until the Pro 2, which will hopefully have the juice to be grandfathered in when OS X is installable on the iPad Pro 3. If not, I can always sell the 2 and buy the 3.

Apart from the above list of improvements, what do you think the iPad Pro 1 lacks so far?

 

[David58117]

Screw the iPad Pro 2 - I want the iPad Pro 10.

It will be the weight and size of a piece of paper, foldable into a 1x1'' square, indestructible, a life-long battery that never needs to be charged, water proof, and the screen will change into the next next next version of e-ink for when you're reading - being indistinguishable from a printed page.

It will also have a hologram keyboard.

Touch ID 1 and 32 GB storage space will still be the base model though.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

@David58117: I want it too. But the Pro 10 is still 9 years away. I am talking about next year's model, which I'll live to see, since I plan on farting off to Mars in a rocket before your 10 is released. Your prediction that the iPad Pro 10 in a decade will still have a 32GB base model sounds like Apple though, hehe, so you are spot on about that.

 

[Michael Goff]

The iPad Pro is a first generation product evolved from 6th or so generation hardware. But no matter how much some people want to say it isn't a 1st generation product, it unfortunately is the first time Apple has created a laptop-size tablet meant for creative professionals. This is the first generation.

People will now figure out what it can and cannot do. What the apps can do. And what features it needs.

Following the regular 11-12 month release interval of Oct/Nov each year, we will see the iPad Pro 2 in Oct 2016.

I can guarantee that it will inevitably run OS X someday. Maybe not in the 2nd generation, but no later than the 3rd, if Apple wants to remain relevant. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. OS X and iOS use the same Mach UNIX kernel, same kernel extension architecture and filesystem, they just run different userland graphical interfaces. But Apple has done their best to make OS X touch-ready, by introducing Launchpad, iCloud, Notification Center, Fullscreen, Split Fullscreen (Capitan), and Universal Binaries. And now large-enough tablet screens to fit the whole OS plus the external iPad Pro keyboard to prepare it for controlling OS X. A future universal binary will not be PowerPC+Intel. It will be ARM+Intel.

The question is not if. It's when. The iPad Pro's use of iOS makes it look like a comically oversized toy. Like an iPod Touch put through a magnifying glass. It's begging for a more advanced OS.

I think iPad Pro 2 is still going to be a bit too early for Apple to dare to bring OS X to the tablet world and catch up with Microsoft's multi-year lead. But I doubt it will take their brilliant engineers anymore than 2 years (iPad Pro 3, 2017). OS X is already running on ARM in internal builds, for sure. Anything else would be braindead. And Apple aren't braindead.

So if they aren't going to bring OS X to iPad Pro 2, what do you think they *will* change after a year of professional use?

My predictions:
-64GB flash base model, since flash gets cheaper and larger all the time, and 256 or 512GB as the top model.
-Higher resolution screen. This is dubious but they may try to reach 4K for some dumb-consumer reason. As if we need it in a 13 inch tablet.
-Next generation ARM with 30-50% higher CPU performance and 2-3x higher GPU performance, to better handle all the pixels on the huge display. This will be vital when app makers realize how much juice it takes to render all of the iPad Pro's pixels.
-Twice as much RAM since more and more desktop class apps will demand it. The IPP's 4GB is pathetically iOS-centric and will ensure the Pro 1 cannot be grandfathered in to any OS X support (this reveals planned obsolescence of the iPad "Pro" 1). The Surface Pro has up to 16GB RAM.
-Fixes for all the inevitable hardware and manufacturing flaws that will be discovered in this 1 month old product. Putting it into the hands of millions of people always reveals things not found internally.

I salute everyone who bought the first generation before Apple has seen what people need from the product. Considered doing it myself, but since I only use iPads to control music mixers I'll wait until the Pro 2, which will hopefully have the juice to be grandfathered in when OS X is installable on the iPad Pro 3. If not, I can always sell the 2 and buy the 3.

Apart from the above list of improvements, what do you think the iPad Pro 1 lacks so far?

No, they've made it clear iOS is their OS of choice.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

No, they've made it clear iOS is their OS of choice.

Good thing you are not working at Apple or they'd stay behind Microsoft forever.

http://iphone.appleinsider.com/arti...aid-to-be-strongly-considering-arm-based-macs

http://www.macworld.com/article/2983385/ipad/the-ipad-pro-is-a-pilot-fish-for-apples-arm-laptop.html

 

[Abazigal]

Good thing you are not working at Apple or they'd stay behind Microsoft forever.

I would say the same for you. Arm-based macs doesn't imply an iPad with a keyboard. Apple likely has their own vested interests in wanting to use their own homegrown processor designs instead of being beholden to Intel's increasingly erratic product roadmap, but this doesn't mean that iOS and OSX will merge anytime soon.

I can guarantee that it will inevitably run OS X someday.

I am prepared to go out on a limb and bet with you that the iPad will never run OSX. I do believe that Apple will keep adding more productivity-oriented features to iOS to make it fit with their vision of mobile computing. I won't be surprised if Apple finally decides to fork iOS into both iPhone OS and iPad OS and develop both separately. However, I don't see the iPad running OSX (in its current Mac incarnation) ever.

I predict that we will eventually see iOS improve in capability until it rivals the functionality of desktop OSes, without compromising the strengths of its platform (power efficiency, ease of use, better security). These are things you arguably lose by moving over to a desktop platform, even OSX, which is more resource intensive and power hungry.

This change won't happen overnight. It will take years, but when it does occur, you will be glad that Apple did not take the short-sighted path of simply slapping OSX on a tablet and calling it a day.

So if they aren't going to bring OS X to iPad Pro 2, what do you think they *will* change after a year of professional use?

Right now, I feel that specs aren't the iPad Pro's primary concern. I would like to see the iPad Pro get updated to support 4k video recording (it can edit 4k video, so why not cut out the middleman and let the user record video on it directly?), 3D touch, 2nd-gen touch-ID and Hey-Siri (essentially putting it on par with the 6S), but these are very incremental updates and I feel the user experience isn't significantly impacted without them.

I feel Apple should just scrap the 32gb as well. I get there are people who might buy the iPad Pro just as a larger entertainment device, but what kind of message are you sending?

Personally, I won't be surprised if the iPad moves to a 2-year refresh cycle. At this point, the hardware is quite mature, and I don't think there are quite enough incremental changes that can be made to justify minor refreshes on an annual basis.

The biggest issue is getting developers to support the device by creating more powerful productivity apps that really tax the system and allow people to get meaningful work done. The hardware is more than capable, the main issue is the software.

Apple could walk the talk by releasing an iPad version of X-code, optimised for a touch interface. What would be more convenient than coding iOS apps and testing them directly on the iOS device itself?

There are already apps that allow people to do web development, edit 4k video and podcasts on a tablet. However, I don't think people are quite aware of them, so Apple could help advertise these capabilities here. Apple could also reach out to developers and work with them to create the sort of apps that iOS is noticeably lacking.

At the end of the day, I feel it's still all about the software.

 

[Michael Goff]

Good thing you are not working at Apple or they'd stay behind Microsoft forever.

http://iphone.appleinsider.com/arti...aid-to-be-strongly-considering-arm-based-macs

What makes OS X on ARM more appealing than iOS? And what makes you say it's good that I don't work for Apple? I'm not the one that had done nothing meaningful with OS X for the past 4-5 releases. I'm not the one that said the iPad Pro was the "most pure form of computing". That was Apple.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

Yes, the battery life of iOS is great but so is OS X with its countless recent improvements to how much time the CPU is able to spend sleeping.

The main limitation of iOS is its dogged insistence that every application takes up the whole screen. Even the specialized "side by side" mode doesn't change the jail of being forced to run 1 or 2 windows at once. The "picture in picture" video player is a gimmick to get around the lack of good multitasking. It is awful at multitasking.

So I agree with Abazigal: Apple needs to do something about iOS for this new market. The apps are great and the stability of iOS is great but the multitasking is disgustingly poor.

The case for OS X on an iPad Pro is easy to make, though; Apple has made hundreds of changes to OS X to bring it closer to iOS. It would be easy to imagine OS X on an iPad Pro. Just take an OS X desktop screenshot and view it fullscreen on an iPad Pro. It's got Launchpad, an easy Dock for launching, and big buttons on sparse toolbars all over the OS. It'd be easy to control on a touch device. And all iOS apps would be able to run on an ARM-based OS X as-is with the introduction of a few extra system services brought over from iOS. And people who prefer iOS can live in LaunchPad to see the app launcher at all times and never worry about the full OS.

There is no doubt that an iPad Pro already exists in their lab already running OS X. The question is if they deem it a good enough experience to follow microsoft's lead (Win on the Surface is GREAT), or if they will do something to remake the awful iOS operating system. It's great for 3 inch phones and iPods. It was passable for iPads. It's laughable for laptop-size iPad Pros.

We'll see OS X or a redesigned iOS in iPad Pro gen 2 or 3, but no later. And it will take a lot of redesigning for iOS to be able to become Apple's new answer to Windows.

 

[Michael Goff]

Yes, the battery life of iOS is great but so is OS X with its countless recent improvements to how much time the CPU is able to spend sleeping.

The main limitation of iOS is its dogged insistence that every application takes up the whole screen. Even the specialized "side by side" mode doesn't change the jail of being forced to run 1 or 2 windows at once. The "picture in picture" video player is a gimmick to get around the lack of good multitasking. It is awful at multitasking.

So I agree with Abazigal: Apple needs to do something about iOS for this new market. The apps are great and the stability of iOS is great but the multitasking is disgustingly poor.

The case for OS X on an iPad Pro is easy to make, though; Apple has made hundreds of changes to OS X to bring it closer to iOS. It would be easy to imagine OS X on an iPad Pro. Just take an OS X desktop screenshot and view it fullscreen on an iPad Pro. It's got Launchpad, an easy Dock for launching, and big buttons on sparse toolbars all over the OS. It'd be easy to control on a touch device.

There is no doubt that an iPad Pro already exists in their lab already running OS X. The question is if they deem it a good enough experience to follow microsoft's lead, or if they will do something to remake the awful iOS operating system. It's great for 3 inch phones and iPods. It was passable for iPads. It's laughable for laptop-size iPad Pros.

We'll see OS X or a redesigned iOS in iPad Pro gen 2 or 3, but no later.

And it has exactly 0 applications that are good for touch. Yep, that'll work. Microsoft has been trying for years now and they still don't have much in the way of a touch App Store.

Seriously, everyone keeps talking about OS X on a tablet, but that's a horrible idea. I doubt they're even working on it in the lab anymore. OS X is on the way out. There will likely be no naming scheme after the Cali one, which was "for the next 10 years".

They pretty much let us know they're getting rid of OS X and it has been ignored.

Best case scenario is PadOS. tvOS, watchOS, and so forth. The iOS center with a different UI for different needs. But OS X would be ridiculous.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

I and a lot of people would also be happy with a PadOS with freeform resizing and multitasking of apps. "One size iOS" does *not* fit all.

They'd probably need an iPad Pro 2 with 8-16GB RAM to pull that off, though. More foreground apps puts more strain on the system. The Pro 1 is a test pilot project whose specs are still shackled by the "1 app" model.

But it's still an equally logical step that the entire OS X will come to the iPad Pro soon. The people who only want iOS launching will stay permanently in LaunchPad to open fullscreen apps. Everyone else can connect a keyboard and mouse to use it as their desktop/laptop at home with full multitasking and deep desktop apps, and then bring it with them as a touch device when they go out. That is anything but ridiculous.

 

[StoneJack]

iPad Pro's limitations (as has been stated), are not in hardware but software.
Which means that there might be further forking of IPP OS, which will lead to rise of iOS Pro which will further enable iPP and lead in turn its hardware evolution. One obvious direction is USB-C/Lightning which will enable incredible number of devices (storages, scanners, cameras, peripherals) and to make a truly universal Pro device. Still it will iOS.

 

[Michael Goff]

I and a lot of people would also be happy with a PadOS with freeform resizing and multitasking of apps. "One size iOS" does *not* fit all.

They'd probably need an iPad Pro 2 with 8-16GB RAM to pull that off, though. More foreground apps puts more strain on the system. The Pro 1 is a test pilot project whose specs are still shackled by the "1 app" model.

Free form resizing and multitasking? Eh?

 

[SteveJobzniak]

@StoneJack: Yeah, improvements in software will force the logical improvements to the hardware. I'd buy a Pro 1 if it had 256Gb storage and 8GB RAM. The current specs are not going to last through a transformation. But that's always been Apple's profit method. Aiming for what specs people will tolerate rather than aiming at the sky. And making up for it with the best software. Until they move to the next "tolerable performance" goal and the old hardware model can't run the new software. Cha-ching.

 

[StoneJack]

Adding USB-C/Lightning port will trule unshackle the iPad Pro.
It will become a leading Mac notebooks.
Still based on purely touch -oriented iOS.
Thats why it will beat Surface and other mixed OS systems any day.

 

[StoneJack]

@StoneJack: Yeah, improvements in software will force the logical improvements to the hardware. I'd buy a Pro 1 if it had 256Gb storage and 8GB RAM. The current specs are not going to last through a transformation. But that's always been Apple's profit method. Aiming for what specs people will tolerate rather than aiming at the sky. And making up for it with the best software.

Perhaps it will have both larger storage and RAM given some time. But iCloud also improving fast. I found that now iCloud apps sync files much much faster.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

Free form resizing and multitasking?

Minority Report. Placing multiple rectangles on the screen and resizing them freely and stacking them like Tetris. Running a small 1 inch view into some stock ticker app while an email client takes up most of the screen, and some web browser is displaying a website, and a Skype client sits in the corner, etc. Xcode has supported elastic layouts and it is the layout mode Apple encourages. So most apps are ready for this.

 

[Michael Goff]

@StoneJack: Yeah, improvements in software will force the logical improvements to the hardware. I'd buy a Pro 1 if it had 256Gb storage and 8GB RAM. The current specs are not going to last through a transformation. But that's always been Apple's profit method. Aiming for what specs people will tolerate rather than aiming at the sky. And making up for it with the best software.

The A9X is starting to get into Intel territory while using less power. And 4gb of RAM means more with the efficiency that iOS has. Stop thinking in terms of a fat OS with fat applications.

Minority Report. Placing multiple rectangles on the screen and resizing them freely and stacking them like Tetris. Running a small 1 inch view into some stock ticker app while an email client takes up most of the screen, and some web browser is displaying a website, and a Skype client sits in the corner, etc. Xcode has supported elastic layouts and it is the layout mode Apple encourages. So most apps are ready for this.

Please no.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

Michael; iOS does not magically make apps need less RAM. And as apps get more features, higher resolution screens with more pixels to draw, higher resolution graphics assets and textures, and more and more work leaves the desktop, then having a 2005-level amount of RAM is not going to cut it. I am a software developer. iOS is RAM-efficient as a cute app launcher but does not mean the actual apps themselves use any less RAM. Algorithms and graphics assets are the same thing whether they are on iOS or OS X. They take the same amount of CPU and RAM on both. And holding back apps forever is only going to hold Apple back. 4GB is tolerable for about 12 months into the future. Funny how the next iPad Pro will arrive then. And it needs a reason to sell. The tiny RAM and storage are obvious upgrade reasons, as is the graphics chip which is holding back the graphical fidelity on that huge screen (the iPad Pro has more pixels than my 1920x1200 24-inch screen, and that one needs an NVIDIA GTX 970 to drive it in modern games).

And yes, we will get either true non-kiddified iOS multitasking or the whole OS X (with iOS app launcher built-in, obviously). Bookmark this thread and come back to it in Oct 2016 or Oct 2017. You'll see. Apple cannot aim at kids and moms forever, unless they want to give the desktop/pro market to Microsoft... actually, I hope to hell they don't lose their roots as a computer company. But toys sell more units, so yeah there is reason to be worried.

 

[Michael Goff]

Michael; iOS does not magically make apps need less RAM. And as apps get more features, higher resolution screens with more pixels to draw, higher resolution graphics assets and textures, and more and more work leaves the desktop, then having a 2005-level amount of RAM is not going to cut it. I am a software developer. iOS is RAM-efficient as a cute app launcher but does not mean the actual apps themselves use any less RAM. Algorithms and graphics assets are the same thing whether they are on iOS or OS X. They take the same amount of CPU and RAM on both. And holding back apps forever is only going to hold Apple back. 4GB is laughable.

And yes, we will get either true non-kiddified iOS multitasking or the whole OS X (with iOS app launcher built-in, obviously). Bookmark this thread and come back to it in Oct 2016 or Oct 2017. You'll see.

You completely missed my point. People make more efficient apps for mobile than they do for desktop. That's what has helped iOS. I don't see them dropping that. Macs, on the other hand, can have enough power to just ram through fat and inefficient applications.

But go ahead, continue to push forward with your fat applications. I'm sure using more resources is always the best choice.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

Desktop apps don't magically become "fat". If the features match in both apps, and they use the same algorithms and same graphics assets, then they will use exactly the same amount of RAM on both iOS and OS X (internally; not counting OS frameworks, but those are usually shared among all apps).

Holding back features and multitasking in iOS to conserve RAM has worked while we had 3 inch phones and 9 inch tablets. With the new 13 inch laptop form factor iPad Pro, it isn't justifiable anymore. It looks childishly overgrown and good developers will start using the large screen. Just watch.

 

[Michael Goff]

Desktop apps don't magically become "fat". If the features match in both apps, and they use the same algorithms and same graphics assets, then they will use exactly the same amount of RAM on both iOS and OS X (internally; not counting OS frameworks, but those are usually shared among all apps).

Holding back features and multitasking in iOS to conserve RAM has worked while we had 3 inch phones and 9 inch tablets. With the new 13 inch laptop form factor iPad Pro, it isn't justifiable anymore. Just watch.

You know what? You win, I give up. iOS apps aren't more efficient, they need just as much RAM as everything else and my iPad Air 2 isn't running just as well as my 2012 MBA did with 8gb of RAM.

None of that is true. You win. Tired of arguing.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

You know what? You win, I give up. iOS apps aren't more efficient, they need just as much RAM as everything else and my iPad Air 2 isn't running just as well as my 2012 MBA did with 8gb of RAM.

None of that is true. You win. Tired of arguing.

Good. I'm a software developer and electrical engineer, can design a computer from the ground up (and have done so in FPGAs), and am intricately familiar with the metal of hardware, assembly language and what computers are made of. I don't go by "my Safari on OSX used a lot of RAM" *feelings*. I go by logic, as everyone should: 1 bit is 1 bit on iOS or OS X. 1 CPU is 1 CPU cycle on iOS or OS X. And as iOS apps grow out of the playpen, their RAM usage is going up all the time. Year by year, iOS apps have been getting fatter and fatter (as you put it). You don't notice it much, since the iOS playpen only runs 1, maybe 2 apps at a time. But iOS is growing up. It's hitting puberty. The 4GB on the iPad Pro is not going to last through the inevitable evolution of advanced multitasking and apps that begin to finally use all of that screen real estate. Apple knows this. That is how they plan to sell the iPad Pro 2.

 

[Michael Goff]

Good. I'm a software developer and electrical engineer, can design a computer from the ground up (and have done so in FPGAs), and am intricately familiar with the metal of hardware, assembly language and what computers are made of. I don't go by "my Safari on OSX used a lot of RAM" *feelings*. I go by logic: 1 bit is 1 bit on iOS or OS X. 1 CPU is 1 CPU cycle on iOS or OS X. And as iOS apps grow out of the playpen, their RAM usage is going up all the time. Year by year, iOS appa are getting fatter. The 4GB on the iPad Pro is not going to last through the inevitable evolution of advanced multitasking and apps that begin to finally use all of that screen real estate. Apple knows this. That is how they plan to sell the iPad Pro 2.

Man. You're the most awesome ever. It miller be hard to be as awesome as you are. You're a software developer, electrical engineer, can build computers. Why aren't you working for Apple or Microsoft? I'm sure they could use somebody with your immense levels of expertise.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

Man. You're the most awesome ever. It miller be hard to be as awesome as you are. You're a software developer, electrical engineer, can build computers. Why aren't you working for Apple or Microsoft? I'm sure they could use somebody with your immense levels of expertise.

Namecalling. The last resort. Tsk.

I only brought it up to explain to you that computers are not magical black boxes, and that there is no difference whatsoever between identical code running on iOS or OS X. And I am hardly the only person who married electronics and software. They go hand in hand.

 

[Michael Goff]

Namecalling. The last resort?

Didn't call you a single name. Seriously. I said you're awesome and have immense levels of expertise. I didn't actually insult you a single time in that entire post. I was sarcastic, yes, but only because you went into condescending patting yourself on the back.

Go ahead, point out the name calling. Or maybe just admit you were wrong about my supposed name calling and apologize for the false accusation.