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iPad Pro Outsells Microsoft Surface in Launch Quarter

Makosuke said:
Maybe Windows 10 makes all the difference, or the apparently-better newer keyboard case makes it more pleasant, or the Surface Pro 4 fixes everything--I’m curious, because I wanted to recommend one to my artist but that was really difficult after actually using it.
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The newer keyboard does indeed fix many things, starting with the track pad and the key spacing. For function key users, the Fn key is moved to the right place, and is also a lock key, also a huge improvement for those who care. The Pro 4 also fixes many issues on the Pro 3, but it's more of an evolutionary refinement.

It's hard for me to compare Win 8 with Win 10. I liked 8 a lot, but also suffered through the many insider builds of Win 10 on my Pro 3. Win 10 has evolved into a very good touch-based OS, but it's not much like Win 8 any more.

The real gem of the Surface product line has to be the Surface Book. The laptop with detachable screen works better for me than a tablet with a detachable keyboard. The trackpad is every bit as good as any Apple trackpad (and yes, I also own a MacBook Pro and love the trackpad on that as well). The new Surface displays beat anything from Apple that I've been able to compare, specifically the iPad Air 2; brighter, better color, and equal pixel density. I have not been able to compare with the iPad Pro yet. My "pro" use cases are Visual Studio and Photoshop, so the iPad Pro really isn't something of interest for me.
 
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Jsameds said:
I am actually surprised. I don't really see the big appeal of iPad Pro. It's too big for the average consumer and it lacks the "pro" apps when compared to the Surface.
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It's a full size screen to the average consumer and most people don't use "pro" apps, whatever the hell that means.
Most people, given the choice don't want Windows and all the baggage that comes with it, especially on their tablets.
 
waloshin said:
The Surface Pro blows away the iPad Pro. No contest.
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As someone who has owned both, it really depends on what you're in the market for. As a computer for "basic" computing stuff (e.g. Browsing the web, writing emails, etc.), the iPad works great. As a computer for specialized work for which there's a good productivity app, the iPad works great*. If you want a great big consumption tablet, the iPad works great. If you want a PC with a touchscreen, the Surface is a better choice.

The Surface, specifically the SP4 which I owned, is in my experience a pretty good laptop and a fairly crappy tablet. Not everyone will agree, of course, which is why these arguments are ultimately subjective and silly.


*How good the iPad works for your particular productivity needs depends almost wholly on the apps you use. Some apps are fairly gimped from the outset; Office, for example, has some feature limitations (particularly in Excel) that feel completely arbitrary rather than due to any limitations of the iPad Pro. Apple needs to step up their game and lead the pack by getting their big productivity applications in the App Store, but they may never do so because they don't want to upset the apple cart (no pun intended) where their Mac sales are concerned.
 
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rdlink said:
I think the real story here is that the iPad ushered in the real tablet era with massive growth, but as it has gotten more powerful over the years, and feature adds are becoming less major people don't feel they need run out and buy a new one every time it's released. I have an iPad Air 2, and honestly I don't see any need to replace it for several more years, unless whatever new one is released has an OMG feature.
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That's definitely one factor. Another is what people are using for most of their "computing", and it's a smartphone. Bigger phones (that have become the norm) are very usable, they're portable, they provide voice/cell services, GPS, high quality cameras - I think tablets got squeezed between ultra light, full featured computers like the MB/MBA and the mobile device "everyone wants/needs", and that's a smart phone.

There's going to need to be a major shift in usability for [pure] tablets to get a little traction back, and even then, they're only looking at displacing laptops which is still a tiny market vs. smart phones.

Tablets are outstanding in a few vertical markets where I do some work, but again, those are tiny market segments.
 
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Until Apple do something with IOS to make use of the screen estate.... I just don't care about the iPad.

I want a Desktop for productivity on the Pro and I want widgets or live tiles or whatever else instead of Icons with a 4inch gap inbetween.
 
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I find it really funny how so many people are really on the Microsoft Surface hype-train, talking up their sales numbers like they are selling like hotcakes. In the meanwhile Apple has been selling a whole lot more iPad's in the same timeframe and the very same people are talking about how iPad's are all dead and Surface is the new big thing. There is something really wrong with the logic here.
 
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KALLT said:
The entire idea of the Surface just does not appeal to me. People may ridicule Apple for the “stretched” user interface on the iPad Pro, but the system as well as the apps are still clearly optimised for a touchscreen. Windows 8 and 10 may have a tablet mode for the touchscreen, but it was put on top of a classic desktop metaphor. Some apps have been overhauled for it – and I think they look really clunky now, not much ‘desktop-class’ – but many have not been adapted, including plenty of “pro” applications. It just is not the same feeling as a good tablet OS where every app is optimised for it. Microsoft just has not that ecosystem for a tablet yet, partially due to their weak efforts in mobile space.

I can understand completely that many people prefer a tablet with a dedicated operating system like iOS or Android. That leaves the laptop side of the Surface and it is there where the competition is probably the toughest. The Surface devices look flimsy in comparison to the competition. There are fantastic, quality laptops out there that do not compromise on the hardware just because they also need to be tablets. I personally think that these combined devices are not the future. They can certainly co-exist, like netbooks did.
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To your point, Mr. Cook's statement that the iPad Pro could be both a Tablet and LapTop for many is difficult to support. The reverse of the Surface Pro 4 bring a Laptop and also a Tablet. At present if a choice of one or the other then the new LapTops will win in most situations. Ideally both are the best choice but then costs and management can become a factor. Like the iPhone has bundled many devices in one, I believe at some point in time so will the LapTop and Tablet merge into a single device. If Marcus Sakey Trilogy is a look at the future, then his d-pads (All in one foldable Tablets) are in our future.
 
rdlink said:
I think the real story here is that the iPad ushered in the real tablet era with massive growth, but as it has gotten more powerful over the years, and feature adds are becoming less major people don't feel they need run out and buy a new one every time it's released.
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Apple has done a great job of keeping things compatible. Pretty much everything still works on the iPad 2, which is pretty amazing given that it's almost 5 years old. And yes, I still have a working iPad 2 that until recently my kids were using. Now it's a whole-home automation console and music station, go figure.
 
scaramoosh said:
Until Apple do something with IOS to make use of the screen estate.... I just don't care about the iPad.

I want a Desktop for productivity on the Pro and I want widgets or live tiles or whatever else instead of Icons with a 4inch gap inbetween.
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I do agree that the spacing between the icons on the iPad is starting to look rather ridiculous. But I'm pretty sure that Apple is well aware of how little time users actually spend looking at the home screen / springboard and therefore see no real reason to dedicate resources to change something that most people on spend a split second looking at before entering whatever app they want to use at the time.


I can't for the life of my think of any time or reason why I would look at the home screen on my iPhone? When I pick up my phone, it's because I want to do something specific, and that will be within an app 99,99% of the time.

I've got friends with Android tablets and while "widgets" might make things look more fancy none of them find any of those widgets any useful. They also pick up their tablet and go directly into a app. The only thing they might find somewhat useful is a weather widget, and that's pretty much it.


It would make much more sense and go down the route that Microsoft tried but completely failed to establish. Having dynamic and interactive app icons that can act like small widgets and provide you with small portions of relevant information at a glance before you launch the app could be somewhat useful and would pretty much kill any reason for having widgets in the first place.
 
Apple's sales would have been blockbuster if Apple's iPad "pro" was actually a professional product running Mac OS X and allowed the use of professional applications. Instead, we get this overpriced load of sh*t with a pencil. Way to go, Apple. But that's what happens when you have a manager at the helm and not someone with an actual vision for the company and its products.

Tim Cook is turning into a Steve Balmer.
 
Michael Goff said:
You want an OS not meant for touch, with no programs that would be good with touch, to be out on something that is primarily a tablet?
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Agreed, it would be a pretty different OS X than what we're used to, I think it should come from iOS - though the OS it derives from isn't all that relevant. The "it", I think is missing (and again, I don't think this will create a surge in the tablet market that's anywhere near smartphones) is a ground up touch based OS for tablets, that runs all iOS apps ... AND ... provides some "pro" features: some kind of file management (I'm still not convinced just exposing a file system, ala, Finder is the best option), much better inter-app operation, network [LAN] integration, peripherals like mice, and a few more office category type apps that are legitimate replacements for their desktop counterparts.
 
Here is my non-Pro usage cases with my iPad Pro.

1.) I use it to take notes (so that I can view them on in sync with all my devices) using Apple Pencil.
2.) I play board games with my friends (anywhere that I can take my iPad Pro, which is really cool IMO).
3.) I use it as billboard in live sports events (it's a portable, changeable billboard, how great is that?).
4.) I use it as a portable speaker (it's more than good enough for a small room).
5.) Like my previous iPads it's my portable gaming system and portable TV.

Honestly, my previous iPads were not good enough to do 1-4 on my list, so I am happy with my purchase. Plus, it seems Apple has started working hard to add software features that bring the iPad closer to a laptop like Split View, so I think with every iOS update from now on, we should see the iPad get closer and closer to a MacBook.
 
I've had every iPad variation since it was introduced and for what I use it for they just work. But, I just ordered a SP4 to replace my iPad 4G and rMBP that I'm currently selling. I really wanted a full OS tablet that I can use to combine both products.
 
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Wahlstrm said:
Yeah, Surface should be compared to hardware that run a desktop OS and in a more comparable price range..
The entry iPad PRO is what 50-60% less money than a decent Surface Pro..
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A price / performance comparable Surface Pro nets you quadruple the storage as the iPad Pro. Cheaper keyboard and the pen is included.
 
sracer said:
If I need something that runs a desktop system, it isn't going to be a Surface. It'll be something that doesn't compromise the desktop experience, like a Macbook Air or Dell XPS. If I need a tablet device, it isn't going to be Surface (that lacks the quantity of quality touch-optimized Modern UI apps).

The fact that the iPad Pro is "only" an iPad and sells for as much as a Surface Pro (which can run desktop software) is still able to outsell the Surface Pro does indeed say something.
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The Surface doesn't compromise the desktop experience at all. Use one and you will see, it bests the air and the XPS in my experience. My MacBook Air doesn't get touched anymore and my iPad get use, but not as much.
 
npmacuser5 said:
To your point, Mr. Cook's statement that the iPad Pro could be both a Tablet and LapTop for many is difficult to support. The reverse of the Surface Pro 4 bring a Laptop and also a Tablet. At present if a choice of one or the other then the new LapTops will win in most situations. Ideally both are the best choice but then costs and management can become a factor. Like the iPhone has bundled many devices in one, I believe at some point in time so will the LapTop and Tablet merge into a single device. If Marcus Sakey Trilogy is a look at the future, then his d-pads (All in one foldable Tablets) are in our future.
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One interesting point mentioned in the report is that apparently the Surface Pro outsold the cheaper Surface 3: “We believe Apple sold just over two million iPad Pros while Microsoft sold around 1.6 million Surface devices, a majority of which were Surface Pro and not the more affordable Surface 3. With these results, it's clear that price is not the most important feature considered when acquiring a detachable – performance is.” This questions the costs argument as a reason why people would choose the Surface over a dedicated tablet or laptop. With technology becoming more and more affordable and powerful, there is simply no compelling reason why people would have to stick with one device that it just not as good as either devices it purports to combine. This development should have happened much earlier when the cloud and features like Continuity or Microsoft’s equivalent Continuum were not as viable as they are now. It makes sense for Apple to pass on a Surface-like product when they are on track to do something better.
 
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