iPad Promotional Video and Images Show Properly-Displayed Flash Content

[lucasgladding]

Has Adobe gone on record as to WHY they can't improve Flash without Apple's support?

Nothing detailed that I've read, but I did find this when researching before posting. The comment thread has some entertaining posts.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...flash-10-for-mac-should-boost-performance.ars

I have never used Flash on Linux, but someone who has would be helpful here. If the performance is bad there, +1 for Apple. It's not like Adobe can blame Linux teams for keeping information to themselves.

 

[diamond.g]

Very easy bro

fanboys

they hate what they don't have and support apple's decisions

just like when the fanboys told u - u didn't need mms , voicedialing, video, copy and paste... But when it comes it's like "see! See! They listen! So innovative"

it's quite disturbing

this thread is disturbing - good god I hate fanboys

Or 3G, and GPS... Man those days were interesting....

 

[brewcitywi]

Flash on iPad/iPhone

I don't think adobe and apple have gotten along for years. apple seems like the more progressive company--adobe has gotten more and more corporate. however, apple does have a very possessive way of assembling their hardware. So, who knows.

I think that Flash is more about an adobe/apple thing, than battery life, etc.

As an iPhone user, i'd like the choice for content. Let me turn Flash Content "on and off" like I turn off Wi-Fi at certain times.

The iPad is version 1.0, even though iPhone is 3.0. I wouldn't be surprised if some of iPad's functionality was almost deliberately withheld, in order to ramp up in future versions, and deliver a clean concept.

I can totally understand eliminating the camera. What are we going to do, point that thing around? However, video teleconferencing would be totally natural for this! I guess I don't understand that omission. In a far-fetched thought, maybe Apple is half-expecting some issues with the Nokia lawsuit, and didn't want to have the iPad's launch affected? Maybe i'm stretching there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm probably a future iPad customer! I just thought that a few of the items that would be totally worked out by Apple, weren't (text books, newspaper subscriptions, magazine subscriptions, video camera, flash content, etc.)

 

[Nuvi]

If it has full flash and wide video format support I will get it. If not, I'll pass.

 

[millar876]

Sure, the NY Times web page dose need flash. BUT, there is a special ipad version of tny times app that was shown during the keynote, that has optimised content that looks just like the images in the promo shot.

 

[reactions]

U have a nice pc


Are u telling me u actually crashed running flash?

Why don't u go ahead and uninstall the plugin?

U won't because it cripples your web experience

look - u don't have to like flash and I don't like fanboys - but we coexist with one another regardless

apple give us the choice


Stop telling us what we want

Extrapolating a person's nature from what is essentially a factual statement is lame.

There was a time when if you didn't have Java you didn't have the "full web experience." There was a time when you needed flash to see youtube videos. There was a time when blinking text and crawling highlights were the currency of the web realm. Times change. Just as youtube provides an HTML5 version for streaming video, so too will most other websites before long. Yeah, there will be stuff that holds out for a long time, but that doesn't make the guy a "lemming" or a "follower." In practical terms a lot of people aren't giving up much (aside from assorted crashes or the need to install a flash blocker) by giving up flash. Other people spend all day playing flash games. Being in one camp or the other doesn't say about one's personality what you so allege - if anything, I'd rather be the guy that doesn't spend his day playing Facebook games and watching SNL reruns on Hulu.

 

[asphalt-proof]

300 posts and counting...

About what!?!?!

It amazes me how many completely and utterly clueless people are crawling on this site... In fact - I bet most of those who repeated HTML5 about 12545634 times by now don't even have a clue what they are talking about...

Here are the facts (as in reality!)

1. I am running 2008 MBP with latest flash player installed and both Safari and Firefox never crashed on me. Next to this fact - player runs fine! Sure it can be better and sure it needs to catch up with Windowz version but gap is hugely narrowed with latest release. FACT!

2. Fact number 2. Flash Player IS BROWSER PLUG IN! Which means you can decide to install it or not - to use it or not... I understand some people who don't see need for it. Sure! Uninstall the bloody thing and stop repeating HTML5 like a complete clueless mongol! FACT!

3. Flash isn't going anywhere... In fact very soon indeed Flash market is going to EXPAND with huge number of mobile devices running it. FACT!

4. Huge number of websites out there are Flash based and to simply claim that iPad is "best browsing experience" is a) pure and utter lie b) in fact it is total opposite since my browsing experience is going to get crippled tremendously! FACT!

5. Simply make Flash player OPTIONAL just like it is on every other platform (be that computer or mobile device) and let people decide if they are going to use it or not. Give users FREEDOM OF CHOICE!


Point here is that there is NOTHING to argue about...

"fact 1and 4" of your "facts" are, infact, anecdotal. Nobody cares about your web experience on your it just really doesn't matter in the vast number of crash reports that Apple collects. (this is not to say that what they are telling us is the truth or not. Just that, statistically speaking, your experience is doesn't matter.)

Also, you mention that your are running a MBP of 2008 vintage and note that Flash could run better on it. Yet you are expousing running the same flash on a mobile device that doesn't not have the pure cpu resources your MBP has. Yeah, that "fact" makes sense.

 

[Chaos123x]

Because there is a much better way to do it without using Flash.

Ok so what program can I make websites in with that level of animation and interactivity? Please inform me. Just don't spout off html5 or ajax, I am not a programmer. Is there a program like Flash CS that will let creative artists create content at same level as flash?

 

[irun5k]

I think he purposely shows the lack of flash. It's a way of not having to say "and unfortunately - it doesnt support flash" type thing.

It was TOTALLY on purpose. The stuff in a keynote like that gets scrutinized a million times over. Nothing is accidental or unintended.

However, i think Steve was trying to make the inverse point- e.g., look at this crappy website- so incredibly crappy that content doesn't show up on such a fine device as this magical tablet.

Of course, said web site looks fine on almost all other web browsing pieces of hardware.

 

[nagromme]

...
Now Apple is doing the same thing by trying to tie you in to iTunes and lockout free content like watching Caprica for free from the website a day after it airs. instead Apple wants you to buy it from iTunes. Strange from a company that supposedly only makes money from the hardware and iTunes is supposed to be a break even business to add value to the hardware
...

You’ll get Caprica and your cartoons, for free, on iPhone/iPad, with no interference from Apple. Just as soon as Hulu and others post their own player apps (like the YouTube one and others—it WILL happen) OR move to HTML5 (which I don’t expect to happen, not for expensive secured content).

Hulu is supposedly working on such an app (could you imagine them not?) and the next-generation Flash tools from Adobe will make this kind of thing even easier: Flash won’t be on a Web page, just in an individual executable app.

Instead of wishing Apple would allow Flash (with all those problems you can’t make go away), wish for the Flash providers to move faster on offering a non-Flash solution. Sooner or later, they will.

Meanwhile, Hulu COULD NOT work on an iPad even if it ran full desktop Flash. How would you make the timeline appear? Touch the screen? No, that pauses the video. Hulu is coded for a mouse, with rollovers and the like. So are most other Flash sites. Touch is not a mouse, and never will be. If you had Hulu on your iPad as it now stands, you’d hate it. It wouldn’t work right at all. It would embarrass both Apple and Hulu.

You’d still be waiting to enjoy Caprica on a native Hulu app, just like I am.

Actually I do not see what the big fuss is on behalf. Just include Flash as an option to be turned on/off and warn the user that it will drain battery life. Similar to push and WiFi. Why limit the web experience, this is a contradiction to the claim that it is the way the web should be experienced.

The warning would have to say:

Use of this option may cause your browser, other apps, or your entire iPad to crash regularly. Most Flash sites will fail to work because they require mouse-overs and clicks instead of touches and swipes. Battery life may be greatly reduced. Security may be compromised: visit this Adobe Tech Note to keep up with the latest Flash security warnings and patches. Flash content may play very slowly or freeze. But your device will get pleasantly hot. Do you wish to enable Flash?

And then everyone would, and they’d all say the iPad is slow, crashy, gets 30 minutes on a charge, and that Flash doesn’t even work! (because you CANNOT get around the mouseover issue)

 

[bretm]

Apple are hardly going to have the 'missing plugin' brick ruining their beautiful promo images, are they? Safe to assume that most of the images on the Apple website are mockups or have otherwise been touched up to make them look their best.

Given that Steve seemed to make a point of showing the absence of Flash during the keynote, I don't think anyone can really say Apple are trying to hide anything here...

If flash is so damn unimportant, why can't apple seem to find a website for their keynote, print ads, or commercials that don't have flash? You don't need flash. Of course all the sites we want to use for our mockups and keynotes are half broken without it. But Im sure there are other sites out there that don't need it. They were just so sucky and unpopular that we didn't want to use them. I mean, what the he'll. If it doesn't have flash, it doesn't have flash. But don't cover it up.

In the original ihone, I believe that right out of the gate he mentioned it doesn't have flash, but that they partnered with YouTube to cover that problem. As if YouTube were the only site with flash. It's the least important flash site to me.

Get flash on it already. Maybe it shouldn't support JAVA too?

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Right. That's why silverlight, doing the same thing, takes up a tiny percentage of the mac's resources compared to flash. What a shock that Adobe blames apple. I guess Apple gave microsoft the secret sauce but is holding out on Adobe.

Could be. Silverlight is cleaner and better programmed than Flash, no doubt. Netflix said their streaming team of developers was reduced to TWO when they switched to sliverlight.

Streaming video through Silverlight is a dream.

I also suppose you need secret sauce to figure out how to make a PAUSED video not take 50% of my MBP's CPU.

I've never had that problem when I build my video players. Poorly programmed Flash sites are common just like any other site or app. I'm sure you could find good ones, or make a good one yourself if you're so inclined. It's not hard.

I even work with multiple simultaneous layers of alpha channel video for educational/technical/medical apps. Pause my video, and your system will be clean.

Of course, you could be running torrents in the background to download all the TV shows you miss on Hulu, so I can't really guess at what your system is handling.

If you think that "Apple won't help" is an excuse for flash to eat all of your CPU when it isn't doing anything other than displaying a static image, I guess you'll believe anything.

Knowing what I'm talking about certainly helps. You should try it sometime. It's exhilarating.

 

[ForzaJuve]

Missing Flash to make a point

Apple are hardly going to have the 'missing plugin' brick ruining their beautiful promo images, are they? Safe to assume that most of the images on the Apple website are mockups or have otherwise been touched up to make them look their best.

Given that Steve seemed to make a point of showing the absence of Flash during the keynote, I don't think anyone can really say Apple are trying to hide anything here...

I agree, why would Steve go to a website that might have Flash and risk an embarrassment if he's not trying to make a point. It's not like he has not rehearsed the keynote before. I am waiting to get my hands on this before I make pointless comments on how disappointed I am.

 

[fat phil]

Perhaps Apple was worked with the New York Times and other major sites for custom iPad versions of their sites that use an alternative to flash such as HTML5.

That's my first impression.

HTML5 is the end of Flash (I hope anyway).

Adobe are quickly losing all those hearts and minds they fought so hard to acquire (any Flex/LiveCycle Data Services users around?).

 

[jeznav]

Flash isn't a static product, it will advance.. thus, HTML 5 will not be a total replacement.

Adobe CS5 has HTML5 support. They created an XML format called FXG. Look it up in wikipedia. I think it stands for Flash Extendable Graphics. This format along with HTML5 renders Flash 10 quality on <canvas> tag all being processed by their custom JavaScript renderer. Since HTML5 canvas tag is already gpu accelerated and supports OpenGL(webgl), expect to see Papervision3D technology using HTML5. Flash is not dead. Flash video will be. Adobe Flash CS5 exports to HTML5 as .fxg instead of .swf along with the .js renderer. It has no propritery runtime code. Flash runtime developer team does not have to worry about OS versions, as long as webbrowser developers include HTML5, this new flash format will run on any device.

More on FXG format: For what I read, it's an enhanced SVG. It's vector based and can animate. There is a video on YouTube during MAX 2009 conference demonstrating the interchangability between Adobe's application. The part that caught me was Flash CS5 exported a graphical animation to HTML5, played in a capable browser all without the flash player plugin.

Flash/HTML5 haters, please don't hate each other because both technologies are becoming part of each other.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Ok so what program can I make websites in with that level of animation and interactivity? Please inform me. Just don't spout off html5 or ajax, I am not a programmer. Is there a program like Flash CS that will let creative artists create content at same level as flash?

There isn't yet. If someone does put together a tool like that, my guess is that it will perform and look slightly differently on IE, Firefox, Safari, and Chrome.

You would trade a single platform (Flash) for the headache of supporting multiple browsers again.

 

[PaulSorensen]

Flash is dead - Long live HTML5 and H.264 video.

 

[nelmat]

Honestly...

I don't want to be rude or anything but arguing about web STANDARD is frekn stupid!!!

And why are you asking me such a questions!?!?

Ok - I am in art, design and photographic business and well over 80% of my contacts (as in artists, designers, photographers etc...) HAVE FLASH BASED SITES!!!

Is this hard to understand!?!?!

Meaning, using this awesome tool made for best browsing experience ever - I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO MY JOB which is keeping an eye on all those guys and their latest work...

I personally don't give a damn about video or Hulu!

I want to be able to browse the net using web STANDARDS!

Apple can simply make Flash OPTIONAL just like it is on any other platform...


End of the story - talking about such ridiculous things any further is below anyones level really.

Flash is not a standard. People using flash (alone) to present their content are failing in standards and accessibility compliance, they are failing in search engine optimisation using anything other than hidden content. Flash based web sites are lazy and inaccessible to those with physical disabilities. I run a very large, very succesful graphics agency, and flash is banned by ALL of our government and council contracts. We use it sparingly, where needed - which is rare.

Flash is a proprietary technology owned by Adobe. Adobe is a third party company, it is not Apple. Microsoft Silverlight and all my other web plug-ins work beautifully - even the shockwave plug-in, Youtube - sans flash - is a joy, with superior picture quality. HTML 5 presentation of video is superior and requires less processing power, produces less heat and is less of a draw on battery life.

The flash plug-in is a mess. it needs to be sorted. This is Adobe's job - not Apple's.

Yes, there is some great flash content around, it's a great authoring tool.

The plug-in sucks however, and needs to be fixed. By Adobe.

If Apple allowed this plug-in to run on their mobile devices, they'd be drowning in complaints about short battery life, hanging browsers and constant crashes. Adobe leave them no choice but to exclude it, until Adobe fix it.

 

[mikecap]

For the more conspiracy minded

Another possibility is that there might be a secret on/off switch inside the iPhone OS version of Safari that enables/disables Flash content.

 

[likwidplastik]

I can't understand why so many of you are happy that they're not even giving you the option.

And the HTML5/futureproofing arguement is ridiculous. This product is being released NOW, and guess what...whether we like it or not, a lot of sites still use flash, a lot of developers will continue to use it. It has it's place.

For the record, I'm not a huge flash supporter. It's perfectly fine with me if it eventually gets phased out.

 

[nagromme]

Ok so what program can I make websites in with that level of animation and interactivity? Please inform me. Just don't spout off html5 or ajax, I am not a programmer. Is there a program like Flash CS that will let creative artists create content at same level as flash?

You are correct. There is nothing.

Like you, I am a developer of Web-based animation. There is NO solution that compares to Flash for rapid, flexible development of interactive vector animation.

And, yet, sadly, there is NO way that Flash makes sense on the iPhone or iPad. Nothing Apple can do will change that. Not even Adobe can make the mouseover issue go away (for existing Flash sites, that is).

This is the unfortunate reality. For it to change, something new must come along—and I doubt it will be some new version of Flash, but we’ll see. That would be cool. Change won’t come from letting Flash be “good enough” though. Letting everyone run your Flash app on their iPad and have a terrible experience isn’t as good an option as you may think.

In any case, Apple’s designed the iPad for users, not us developers.

 

[asphalt-proof]

You’ll get Caprica and your cartoons, for free, on iPhone/iPad, with no interference from Apple. Just as soon as Hulu and others post their own player apps (like the YouTube one and others) OR move to HTML5 (which I don’t expect for secured, expensive content).

Hulu is supposedly working on such an app (could you imagine them not?) and the next-generation Flash tools from Adobe will make this kind of thing even easier: Flash won’t be on a Web page, just in an individual executable app.

Instead of wishing Apple would allow Flash (with all those problems you can’t make go away), wish for the Flash providers to move faster on offering a non-Flash solution. Sooner or later, they will.

Meanwhile, Hulu COULD NOT work on an iPad even if it ran full desktop Flash. How would you make the timeline appear? Touch the screen? No, that pauses the video. Hulu is coded for a mouse, with rollovers and the like. So are most other Flash sites. Touch is not a mouse, and never will be. If you had Hulu on your iPad as it now stands, you’d hate it. It wouldn’t work right at all. It would embarrass both Apple and Hulu.

You’d still be waiting to enjoy Caprica on a native Hulu app, just like I am.

Nice points. I would also add that Hulu is looking to begin charging for their content. If Youtube can work your iphone or touch then it would seem that other sites could do it as well.

 

[steve-p]

If Apple allowed this plug-in to run on their mobile devices, they'd be drowning in complaints about short battery life, hanging browsers and constant crashes.

And they won't be drowning in complaints about the little blue brick?

 

[SpinThis!]

Because there is a much better way to do it without using Flash.

Sometimes. For most web pages, JavaScript and html are enough but when it comes to any kind of multimedia, Flash is currently the best way to do it. (Form uploads as well to certain extent, depending on what you need to do.)

The problem right now is actually 2 things: Microsoft support and canvas creation tools. HTML5 is a buzzword that doesn't really mean anything. When people talk about HTML5 as being a flash replacement, what they really mean is the <video> tag, svg and <canvas> support. There's simply no tools available yet to get cool animations via the canvas tag unless you feel like writing your own code. So until that happens, Flash still remains the best way to do that. CS5 is the first decent support I've seen to do this so we'll see how that shakes out.

However, IE still doesn't support the canvas tag. You can argue that IE is declining in marketshare but that doesn't completely remove it from the marketplace.

As for <video> in HTML5, the w3c dropped the ball and left it up to browser manufacturers as to what codecs to support. Mozilla supports ogg theora, Apple and Google support h.264 and Microsoft, as usual, supports nothing. So you're back at square one. Like it or not, from a web designer's standpoint, the best way to put multimedia content on your website which reaches most audiences right now is Flash. If you want to do it the w3c way with html5, you need to encode your content in h264 and ogg, plus provide Flash backup for IE. It's a mess.

 

[willybNL]

I am wondering

You know... I think I'll buy one... but I wonder

- Will I be able to use my iPad as a external screen for my MacBook Pro?
It would be very awesome if someone would make an app that does that... that would allow multi-touch in OS X and really make the iPad usefull the whole day, even when I'm on my mac.

- Will I be able to save documents/pdf's that I download from the internet? Thus is there a 'Downloaded Documents App'?
Some real cool interface on it, and save everything you like to save, so that you can continue working on it if you're back on your mac.