iPad Promotional Video and Images Show Properly-Displayed Flash Content

[nelmat]

YOU DORK! Flash has been able to encode H.264 and AAC into a FLV for about 1.5 years now. Boy are you out of touch. Flash introduced support with FP 10, which was released in 2008. This is WHY some video work in HTML 5 and others do not. DUHHHHHH!

Nice generalized statement. It's quite ignorant to say the least, but I wouldn't expect anything less from a Flash Hater.

I'm not a flash hater, I'm a flash developer. And you, apparantly, have no idea how youtube works. Flash content is encoded for fast streaming as flv, alternative content is 264. Time for you to get some re-training I think. The flash video interface is bloatware and unresponsive, to throw another spanner in the works.

 

[rgarjr]

I'm just amazed that none of the hackers have figured out a way to incorporate Flash into the iPhone yet. They've managed to add all others kinds of cool features that Apple hasn't given us yet - why not Flash?

This does bring up an interesting point. They can manage to create some cool apps and things, but cannot get flash in there.

 

[nelmat]

iPlayer works just fine on the iPhone (has an iPhone-specific subsite) - no reason why it shouldn't work on the iPad as well.

Every site out there should be developing flash alternatives - if they don't already have them in place. To not have alternative content when flash isn't installed is lazy, amateur coding. Where no alternative content can be provided, a developer should look long and hard at finding alternative ways to display this content.

 

[nagromme]

So the iPad is such a revolution, that all sites should now conform to its limitations? That's just being silly.

Not if it’s as “simple” as you claim below

But no—it’s not a matter of “should” or “silly.” It’s simple fact. Current Flash sites CANNOT be used effectively on a tablet. No matter who designs it or what choices they make. The mouseover problem is real. Maybe sites shouldn’t have to redesign for the iPad. So—don’t. Ignore the iPad users. Ignore ALL tablet users. That’s fine. Just don’t pretend there’s any conceivable option that makes current Flash sites work on ANY tablet. There is no such option. The sites either change, or they don’t work well on any tablet—iPad or otherwise.

Because the mouseover problem is real, fundamental, and completely breaks interaction with many—or even most--Flash sites.

If the developer cares to rework, or develop for the iPad, or any touch-screen device, Flash Player 10.1 fully supports multi-touch. And no, it's not a ton of extra work modify how something listens for the mouse, it's actually really simple, REALLY REALLY SIMPLE.

Even if that Flash programming is really simple (and its absolutely NOT—I’m a Flash developer and designer, and the very DESIGN of an app changes if you can’t use mouseover) then you STILL can’t expect every site to re-program its pages. Simple or not, it’s hundreds of thousands of Flash apps, made my tons of different programmers. That mass re-programming will not happen. Most Flash sites will remain as they are now. And then the mouseover problem remains.

 

[JackAxe]

Nope, all sites should confirm to standards, and application against modern devices, including touch screen. There are other manufacturers building mobile touch screen devices you know...

My google phone sucks at flash.
The apple sucks at flash play playback.

Somehow, I'm more inclined to look at the common factor rather than blame apple and google.

I agree with standards, but it's not the tech that determines how they'll be implemented.

Like I said, 10.1 will make a HUGE difference for your Google phone and any mobile device for that matter.

And as I rambled to another guy, 10.1 supports multi-touch gestures.
Here's the link again;
http://theflashblog.com/?p=1678

And when you say Apple sucks at Flash Playback, you'll need to be more specific? The iPhone sucks, as does my Touch, since they don't support it, but I can see why, as my Touch chugs on simple JS content.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Yes, the same as developers have learned new skills to deal with new advances in technology in the past. That is why they are called Developers. They develop.

So you prefer that 100s if not 1000s of developers spend the time and money to re-wirte they websites and apps to suit iPhone OS X, or spend a fraction compares to those 100s and allow for a true web experience. False advertising I say. Remember I do not use Flash, however I disagree that a company should limit the end users experience. May it be riddled with bug or not, if that is what the end-suer wants may it be so.

Where did you get the idea that Adobe sees any money from the Flash apps created from their Creative Suite? Adobe gets paid for their creation suites, a revenue sharing agreement for apps wouldn't work. It behooves Adobe for Flash to remain dominant so that people need to continue buying their creative suites.

Maybe I am looking ahead, but it is quite a good possibility. Here we have Adobe wanting help (regardless if its a multi-million dollar company) and just ignoring it. Think of how many more iPads will sell if those 1000s of Farmville users buy an iPad for its Flash capabilities.

 

[SpinThis!]

If i was to develop a form under flash with no flash alternative, it would break accessibility legislation in Europe.

What are you talking about? I never said "no flash alternative." Anytime you do Flash content you need to have an alternative. Ideally you shouldn't have to do that but Flash solves current browser limitations. Just because something is "standard" doesn't make it "right" from the user experience.

A progress bar is fed from server side data and response/feedback. How is that a client side problem?

You're not understanding the problem. This should be done from the browser side, not additional BS ajax calls querying the server for progress.

You obviously are a standards nut and a Flash hater with no middle ground.

 

[kdarling]

How do you scroll a page that has Flash? Differently from other Web pages? When you swipe across a page to scroll, how does the tablet know whether you wanted to scroll or roll over? How do YOU the user know what parts of the page are Flash and play by different rules?

You mean, like the way that it takes two fingers to scroll within an HTML textarea or div in mobile Safari?

See, the problem's already solved, even though Apple's way is non-intuitve and must be taught.

What happens when you tap a Flash button? Does it roll over (popping up the explanation text you needed) or does it click? If it doesn’t click, then it works differently from all the other non-Flash buttons on the page. Again, how do you, the user, know what part of the screen plays by these special rules?

You mean, the same problem as with DHTML rollovers in mobile Safari?

 

[nagromme]

Encapsulate all flash windows with a special colored border, those rules only apply within the border, have a 1 minute demo tutorial to teach users how to browse the web on the ipad and you're done.

For your other issue:
1st finger touch <1s = click.
1st finger touch >1s or 1st finger move a certain distance within the first second = mouseover.
1st & 2nd finger touch = click.

No offense, but that’s a terrible plan. Colored border or not (what color? what if the page uses that color already?) you do NOT want a touchscreen web page where parts of the page follow different rules for clicking and scrolling. Nor do you want your Flash sites messed up with extra colored borders.

And people won’t go through your 1-minute tutorial. They just want to surf—and with the iPad, they can. The fact that a tutorial is even needed shows why this is Flash done BADLY. And those fancy gestures won’t help with fast-paced games, where clickless steering is common.

You can invent a complex scheme where someone could simulate a mouse on part of the page and not on others. But it will never be a good idea. It will be a failure. People will hate it.

You mean, like the way that it takes two fingers to scroll within an HTML textarea or div in mobile Safari?

Yes, but does your ONE finger action that affects the whole page change? No. Scrolling in textarea is a nice advanced feature that most people can ignore. It’s not changing the fundamental actions of clicking links and scrolling around. Neither does Safari’s handling of DHTML/JS popups.

 

[nelmat]

So you prefer that 100s if not 1000s of developers spend the time and money to re-wirte they websites and apps to suit iPhone OS X

Nope, not just to suit iPhone OS, to support every new touch screen device that will now flood the market.

Maybe film makers shouldn't have been forced to sound - all those cinemas had to redevelop and put speakers in? Great argument for progress. Luddite.

There is a new way to interact with technology - people have been calling for it for years - now it's here and you're complaining that developers might have to change their workflow?

 

[nelmat]

You're not understanding the problem. This should be done from the browser side, not additional BS ajax calls querying the server for progress.

You obviously are a standards nut and a Flash hater with no middle ground.

Yes, standards are important, no I'm not a flash hater, and yes there is middle ground.

How can a client side process determine how a server-side process is progressing without calling data from the server? I believe it is you who doesn't understand the problem.

 

[alent1234]

Nope, all sites should confirm to standards, and application against modern devices, including touch screen. There are other manufacturers building mobile touch screen devices you know...

My google phone sucks at flash.
The apple sucks at flash play playback.

Somehow, I'm more inclined to look at the common factor rather than blame apple and google.

Flash is on something like 99% of all computers out there and most of the web sites. later this year it will be on 50% of all smartphones. there is your standard. Google and Apple hate it because someone else controls it and it's platform independent making it easy to port software between OS's and clouds. So they make up this HTML 5 so called standard that no one uses.

This is why MS gave ActiveSync to Apple. They were scared of RIM installing their BES servers everywhere.

 

[slapppy]

No Flash means

Awesome. No crappy ads. No ramping up of CPU cycles for just a tiny piece of video. No Flash vulnerabilities. No Flash is GOOD!

 

[0092762]

No offense, but that’s a terrible plan. Colored border or not (what color? what if the page uses that color already?) you do NOT want a touchscreen web page where parts of the page follow different rules for clicking and scrolling. Nor do you want your Flash sites messed up with extra colored borders.

And people won’t go through your 1-minute tutorial. They just want to surf—and with the iPad, they can. The fact that a tutorial is even needed shows why this is Flash done BADLY. And those fancy gestures won’t help with fast-paced games, where clickless steering is common.

You can invent a complex scheme where someone could simulate a mouse on part of the page and not on others. But it will never be a good idea. It will be a failure. People will hate it.

You must be one of the "one mouse button" folks from days of yore. The schema I presented is in NO WAY complex, it's very intuitive. Also, the screen border can be dynamically calculated to contrast with whatever color the rest of the page is.

However, I have a better plan:
How about Apple letting Adobe make a Flash app in the store, they can even sell it for $9.99 and MANY would buy it. If you click on a flash on a website, the flash app opens with the touchscreen rules I defined above (which WILL work for most of the flash sites just fine by the way) sort of like clicking on a video file and the video player opening up in the iphone. If Apple isn't truly afraid of Flash apps bypassing their store, they'll let Adobe put a flash player app in the app store.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Yes, standards are important, no I'm not a flash hater, and yes there is middle ground.

How can a client side process determine how a server-side process is progressing without calling data from the server? I believe it is you who doesn't understand the problem.

Amazing, how many touch based Mac or PC are there on the market? Touch based computing is only recently taken off, and even with that there are conflicting standards on gestures. You might be right that Touch based input is the future, then again you might also be wrong. The point is that Touch based input might work for some mobile devices, however its impractical for all devices. Apple even admits it by offering a dock and keyboard option for the iPad for typing documents. Lets face facts, a Keyboard, Mouse and Touch screens have they benefits and limitations. The consumer base is not ready to jump in with both feet on touch based input, because it is still considered to be in its infancy for consumers, even though it was developed decades ago.

It all depends on the market at this point.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Awesome. No crappy ads. No ramping up of CPU cycles for just a tiny piece of video. No Flash vulnerabilities. No Flash is GOOD!

Why not go one step further and only have webpages render in plain text with or without minimal images. That will speed up the internet and extend battery life altogether. Back to the days of the infancy of the internet and networks.

 

[JackAxe]

Not if it’s as “simple” as you claim below

But no—it’s not a matter of “should” or “silly.” It’s simple fact. Current Flash sites CANNOT be used effectively on a tablet. No matter who designs it or what choices they make. The mouseover problem is real. Maybe sites shouldn’t have to redesign for the iPad. So—don’t. Ignore the iPad users. Ignore ALL tablet users. That’s fine. Just don’t pretend there’s any conceivable option that makes current Flash sites work on ANY tablet. There is no such option. The sites either change, or they don’t work well on any tablet—iPad or otherwise.

Because the mouseover problem is real, fundamental, and completely breaks interaction with many—or even most--Flash sites.



Even if that Flash programming is really simple (and its absolutely NOT—I’m a Flash developer and designer, and the very DESIGN of an app changes if you can’t use mouseover) then you STILL can’t expect every site to re-program its pages. Simple or not, it’s hundreds of thousands of Flash apps, made my tons of different programmers. That mass re-programming will not happen. Most Flash sites will remain as they are now. And then the mouseover problem remains.

I've been developing in Flash since version 2, prior I used director. With ActionScript 3 and how it handles mouse event, and the fact I know how to program, is why I say it's really simple for me to adjust a mouse's behavior. I can see if you're one of those timeline only Flash guys that has scripts vomited all over the place that it might be an issue, but if you build everything in AS3 and keep it organize, adjusting a button's listener is a simple matter.

AND, the sites that are difficult to update, are also probably the not so desirable Flash, so if it means these sites will be improved upon, that's a good thing in my book. And look at this way, for some it might be more work. Of course some sites will not adjust, but this is the web, another site will take its place. There's still time.

Here's the best part. I've been working on a touch-screen demo for a certain provider for the past 3 weeks, which already uses Flash based touch-screen demos in their stores and this isn't my first. You don't need a rollover, so why is it even a problem? I just make the buttons larger and If I care to develop for touch-screen devices on the web and a mouse, I can check to see who's viewing my app, then dynamically build my buttons accordingly.

Anyways, you mention current, which implies now. Last I checked the iPad is not out and multi-touch is still new and has yet to make its way to the desktop on a large scale. When that time comes, which it will, I'll be developing my applications and web based demos differently, I'll adjust, as will any good developer. That's how I keep busy and it allows me to buy thing as silly as a GIGANTIC Touch!

 

[nagromme]

You must be one of the "one mouse button" folks from days of yore. The schema I presented is in NO WAY complex, it's very intuitive. Also, the screen border can be dynamically calculated to contrast with whatever color the rest of the page is.

That fact that you have to keep coming up with new exceptions and rules—and a tutorial to tell users how to use a Web browser--makes it complex by nature.

And if the “use Flash gestures here" border is different on every page, then it’s even less intuitive to tell it apart from all the other borders on pages.

However, I have a better plan:
How about Apple letting Adobe make a Flash app in the store, they can even sell it for $9.99 and MANY would buy it. If you click on a flash on a website, the flash app opens with the touchscreen rules I defined above (which WILL work for most of the flash sites just fine by the way) sort of like clicking on a video file and the video player opening up in the iphone. If Apple isn't truly afraid of Flash apps bypassing their store, they'll let Adobe put a flash player app in the app store.

That IS a good plan for some things (and probably doable: Adobe is working on Flash executable tools for iPhone). I like it! But Flash has to talk to the rest of the page much of the time, so even that is not a catch-all solution. Good for games, though. (But games need more complex mouseover actions, and they need them quicker. And they often need a keyboard!)

And a solution that only works “sometimes” is, again, Flash done BADLY.

(BTW we already DO have some Flash apps in the app store. Individual self-contained Flash games. Adobe has yet to put the next version of Flash on sale, but when they do, this is another tool for app developers. Nice to have options! And Apple allows it.)

I've been developing in Flash since version 2, prior I used director. With ActionScript 3 and how it handles mouse event, and the fact I know how to program, is why I say it's really simple for me to adjust a mouse's behavior. I can see if you're one of those timeline only Flash guys that has scripts vomited all over the place that it might be an issue, but if you build everything in AS3 and keep it organize, adjusting a button's listener is a simple matter.

I’m not a timeline programmer, I’m an ActionScript programmer, and it is NOT really simple to adjust the mouse’s behavior if doing so requires that you ALSO change the function of the app you’re making. One line of code changes a roll to a click. A LOT more than that is needed to make the change make any sense. Look at some Flash games and video players—I’m not talking about really simple menu buttons.

Say you have a video player where controls pop up on mouseover, but you pause on click. So—you remove the click-to-pause (annoying your users) and then you change it to a click to make the controls appear. But then the controls start hidden! So you make them visible by default. And then they stay in the way, instead of auto-vanishing the way they normally would on mouse-out. So then you add a timer so they go away even if the mouse IS over them. And then that annoys someone who clicks at the moment it vanishes. So then you try maybe changing the size of the Flash app (affecting the whole surrounding page) so that the controls are below the video instead of over it. Your designers don’t like the look and they don’t like the wasted space. And all of it requires decisions and meetings and approvals from tons of people. And testing. And maybe trying a couple options to see which looks best. And now your one line of code is not so simple. If you’re a commercial Flash developer, you know what I’m talking about

And my point was, even if it IS really simple to reprogram a Flash app (and if the original source file and programmer are always readily available) it is STILL not going to happen.

You could tell every Flash site to type an asterisk on the page—one second of HTML work—and it still wouldn’t get done Web-wide because we’re talking about thousands of sites.

And if only “some” Flash sites work, then that’s Flash done BADLY.

 

[kernkraft]

The iPad wasn't my idea

Just saw this from one of my friends who actually works at the Cupertino office. He is working on a prototype for apple. See pic below.

iPad Nano - that's right. But without the 3G option, it only applies to the iPod Touch.

 

[JackAxe]

I'm not a flash hater, I'm a flash developer. And you, apparantly, have no idea how youtube works. Flash content is encoded for fast streaming as flv, alternative content is 264. Time for you to get some re-training I think. The flash video interface is bloatware and unresponsive, to throw another spanner in the works.

ME, no idea? Really? FLV is a "container," just like WMV or Quicktime as an example. It's not a video compression. Seriously, how can you not know this? And you call yourself a Flash developer.


The Flash video API is not bloat and it's only being improved upon. It's fairly small if you have a clue. The fact you called the video interface bloatware has me thinking you're one of those component using timeline guys and its those types that are generally responsible for the the most bloated Flash work. I've had my share of bloat, but that was YEARS back.

Seriously, look in the mirror. You say you don't hate Flash, but you're being somewhat naive of its capabilities, so I have to wonder if you're any good at it? Your complaints are more like the HTML only guys guys I work with on an occasion that get a headache when they do anything beyond CSS with some simple JS. They couldn't cut it with Flash when it started to move beyond a simple tweening tool, let alone PHP or ASP, so now they diss on it, but it's all in good fun.

 

[fleshman03]

Apple lied? Never thought that would happen....

 

[SpinThis!]

How can a client side process determine how a server-side process is progressing without calling data from the server

Go back to school please. Apparently I have to spell it out for you:

Ajax Solution: form upload via browser. Since browser doesn't provide JavaScript with any api/feedback on how the upload is progressing, you need to make periodic ajax calls to another server-side script for progress on the upload. So you need 2 scripts: one for progress, the other to handle the upload data. For a site that does a lot of uploads that's lot of wasted bandwidth to do something the browser should have provided in the first place.

Flash Solution: form upload via flash swf. Flash talks directly to server side script, provides client progress. The way it should work.

 

[nelmat]

Amazing, how many touch based Mac or PC are there on the market? Touch based computing is only recently taken off, and even with that there are conflicting standards on gestures. You might be right that Touch based input is the future, then again you might also be wrong. The point is that Touch based input might work for some mobile devices, however its impractical for all devices. Apple even admits it by offering a dock and keyboard option for the iPad for typing documents. Lets face facts, a Keyboard, Mouse and Touch screens have they benefits and limitations. The consumer base is not ready to jump in with both feet on touch based input, because it is still considered to be in its infancy for consumers, even though it was developed decades ago.

It all depends on the market at this point.

NO, it doesn't - the market place is changing. Touch is not a replacement, it is a new addition, and developers need to start developing for it. With 40 million + touch devices now in circulation (and growing) it can't be ignored.

It's time for technology to stop being botched to cover the cracks, it's time for companies like adobe to step up to the challenge instead of name calling.

Apple is leading, whether we like it or not. Others have to follow. The iPhone is not a niche product, the iPod touch is not a niche product - these devices are now part of everyday life for a large number of tech users.

It's time for the software developers to catch up, to throw away old concepts and move forward instead of being ridiculously luddite and attached to concepts and software which are themselves less than twenty or so years old.

It's time for progress, for open standards, for compliance to those standards and an end to the current model.

Apple sues Nokia, Nokia countersues.

Google and Apple go to war.

Microsoft v. Apple

I guess Adobe is next.

This hurts the customer, who doesn't give a flying f**k about how something is achieved, they just want it to work.

Developers and software companies are irrelevant if the client isn't getting what they want/need/deserve, the customer will lose interest and walk away.

 

[nelmat]

Go back to school please. Apparently I have to spell it out for you:

Ajax Solution: form upload via browser. Since browser doesn't provide JavaScript with any api/feedback on how the upload is progressing, you need to make periodic ajax calls to another server-side script for progress on the upload. So you need 2 scripts: one for progress, the other to handle the upload data. For a site that does a lot of uploads that's lot of wasted bandwidth to do something the browser should have provided in the first place.

Flash Solution: form upload via flash swf. Flash talks directly to server side script, provides client progress. The way it should work.

Your comment suggested that this was a client side process, not a server side one. Do make your mind up. Troll.

 

[carlitofox]

Apple is slowly moving away from the web

You know everybody flies off the handle when it comes to apple and totally misses the bigger picture

It can really be summed up in one tagline

"there's an app for that"

Think about it

You tube flash videos - there's an app for that

NY Times flash videos - there's an app for that

And it goes on what do you vist the web for ?
Newspapers - facebook/social networking - wikki - Twitter - you tube the list goes on and with the exception of porn there's prob an app for it !

Endgaget has an app once mac rumors, mac 9 to 5 & appleinsider have one I think I'll only need to hit the web for porn !

Apple push the web experence but that's for now mark my words apple is pulling away from the web and soon it'll all be app based with apples mob ad company coining it in ! Steves not silly at all