iPad iPadOS is severely holding the iPad back... and Microsoft is going to save us...

[thefriendshipmachine]

I love iPad and use it every day, and have done so since launch day with the iPad 1. I use it as a computer replacement for most of my non-work stuff. I also own a Surface Pro X. I installed Windows 11 on the Surface Pro X.

Microsoft has made the entire user interface touch friendly, with a vastly improved touch typing experience as well as swipe gestures. And I'm honestly surprised at how bug free it is. I always think of iOS as something that "just works", and I love that reliability on my phone, and it's more or less there too on the iPad, but W11 surprisingly is also very bug free-- especially for a beta.

I honestly never thought I'd see the day where Microsoft beat Apple at making their flagship operating system touch friendly. But as it stands the Surface + Windows 11 looks like an iPad killer to me. IMO, The iPad has historically been so good that it hasn't really had competition. I think this is about to change and it's going to be really good because Apple will be forced to up their game and give us real functionality in iPadOS!

The iPad with its beautiful hardware is stuck in almost a prison with a painfully crippled operating system. You can have your M1 but can't even do basic things like easily sign PDFs or navigate the file system properly. In contrast, my entire windows and linux development environment runs flawlessly on the Surface Pro X. It's capable of running Windows software, Linux software through WSL (CLI + GUI) and x86 and amd64 software via emulation. And soon Android app support. All with a touch friendly interface. It puts the ipad to shame. iPad may have mind blowing faster hardware, but it doesn't matter at all because you just can't do very much with it compared to the Surface.

With Windows 11, Microsoft is taking on both Apple (the iPad) and Google (with Android support).

Apple will have to retaliate now by opening up iOS even more over time. Make no mistake, the Surface + Windows 11 is currently a real iPad killer. And it's only going to improve as Windows 11 officially launches, as the SQ3 chip is released in the Surface lineup this year, and as Android support is added to W11.

As this ^ unfolds people are going to pay attention and Apple is going to lose market share to the Surface. They will have to throw us some meat to make us happy and compete. I'm very excited!

 

[A Happening in Hades]

Surely a Mac OS Light would be easy for Apple to install on iPads.

 

[nStyle]

One glaring issue: x86 based Surface will never be a great tablet…it can be a good work machine.

Apple has tremendous headroom by unifying their architecture but Windows arm is still a hot mess

 

[thefriendshipmachine]

One glaring issue: x86 based Surface will never be a great tablet…it can be a good work machine.

Apple has tremendous headroom by unifying their architecture but Windows arm is still a hot mess

Windows on ARM works very well, and x86 and amd64 emulation works well too. The SQ3 comes out this year, and WoA will have first class android support with no instruction emulation required. All of this is a threat to apple.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Windows on ARM works very well, and x86 and amd64 emulation works well too. The SQ3 comes out this year, and WoA will have first class android support with no instruction emulation required. All of this is a threat to apple.

I would like to see what you use in terms of apps in emulation. I tried using android emulators back in the day of various surface devices and the experience SUCKED. I have a SP7 and it does fine for what we use it for, but it is not anything close to a tablet like an iPad. On the other hand, an M1 Macbook Air nails the laptop experience also.

I, more-or-less, find the Surface line to be trying a middle ground and all it ends up being is poor at everything.

 

[sparksd]

One glaring issue: x86 based Surface will never be a great tablet…it can be a good work machine.

Apple has tremendous headroom by unifying their architecture but Windows arm is still a hot mess

Yeah, my 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7 and 2021 12.9 Pro make a great pair, complementing, not replacing, each other.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Yeah, my 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7 and 2021 12.9 Pro make a great pair, complementing, not replacing, each other.

This I could see--although the surface laptop line might be better with an iPad...I have done the same thing with an iPad Air 3 and an M1 Macbook Air. For gaming I have a desktop...

 

[haruhiko]

The first statement of your title may be right but good luck with the second part.

 

[Rafterman]

I like the concept of the Surface Pro. I have had three different Intel Surface Pros. The software has actually been more than adequate. But the hardware has always been a bit flakey. For instance, when turned off, it would turn on suddenly. Once it happened in my bag, and when I opened the bag, the battery was dead and it was hot as hell in the bag. An LTE version I had, the LTE modem would disappear randomly and you had to go into the BIOS to turn if off and on again. And after patching overnight, on occasion it wouldn't reboot, it would turn off.

I don't know about the X, but MS needs to fine tune their Intel hardware.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I like the concept of the Surface Pro. I have had three different Intel Surface Pros. The software has actually been more than adequate. But the hardware has always been a bit flakey. For instance, when turned off, it would trun on suddenly. Once it happened in my bag, and when I opened the bag, the battery was dead and it was hot as hell in the bag. An LTE version I had, the LTE modem would disappear randomly and you had to go into the BIOS to turn if off and on again. And after patching overnight, on occasion it wouldn't reboot, it would turn off.

I don't know about the X, but MS needs to fine tune their Intel hardware.

Really the best one was the Surface Pro 2. It was actually quite powerful...still even that one had issues like you describe...

 

[dtantono]

soon, the android sideloading feature on Windows 11 will be less useful this year because apk will be replace by aab file.

 

[Rafterman]

Really the best one was the Surface Pro 2. It was actually quite powerful...still even that one had issues like you describe...

Another issue is that there is no customzation in ordering one. For instalce, if you wanted a 32GB RAM, 1TB, i5 (nice, because no fan, perfect for a tablet), with LTE and in black - forget it. You can only get the limited configs MS offers. And for some reason, none on the black veresions come with a 1TB option. And most of their configs are perpetually out of stock.

I'm beginning to wonder if MS cares about he Surface Pro anymore.

 

[Shirasaki]

After a whole year or two of their silly “what’s the computer” campaign, it seems apple has positioned iPad as a companion device between iPhone and Mac, whereas Microsoft is still trying to create a Swiss knife of computer instead of a dedicated device with a feature set that is optimised. I never used a surface computer before but I agree that iPad multitasking is clunky and weird to navigate. iPadOS 15 changes this a bit but still. Seeing those cheap random android phone having more windows management flexibility than a $1500 device makes me wonder what apple wants to do with iPad in the future?

 

[thefriendshipmachine]

I would like to see what you use in terms of apps in emulation. I tried using android emulators back in the day of various surface devices and the experience SUCKED. I have a SP7 and it does fine for what we use it for, but it is not anything close to a tablet like an iPad. On the other hand, an M1 Macbook Air nails the laptop experience also.

I, more-or-less, find the Surface line to be trying a middle ground and all it ends up being is poor at everything.

Microsoft announced first class support for Android apps. They're able to do this via hyper-v. It's going to be GPU accelerated as well. It should work very similar to WSL which has very good performance, so running Android apps on Windows 11 will work out of the box.

W11 makes the entire OS touch friendly just like the iPad, so a lot of the frustrating usability issues are resolved!

 

[sparksd]

I like the concept of the Surface Pro. I have had three different Intel Surface Pros. The software has actually been more than adequate. But the hardware has always been a bit flakey. For instance, when turned off, it would turn on suddenly. Once it happened in my bag, and when I opened the bag, the battery was dead and it was hot as hell in the bag. An LTE version I had, the LTE modem would disappear randomly and you had to go into the BIOS to turn if off and on again. And after patching overnight, on occasion it wouldn't reboot, it would turn off.

I don't know about the X, but MS needs to fine tune their Intel hardware.

Haven't seen any similar issues with my i7 SP7 (or any other h/w issues).

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Microsoft announced first class support for Android apps. They're able to do this via hyper-v. It's going to be GPU accelerated as well. It should work very similar to WSL which has very good performance, so running Android apps on Windows 11 will work out of the box.

W11 makes the entire OS touch friendly just like the iPad, so a lot of the frustrating usability issues are resolved!

SkepticalEltos is skeptical...

 

[thefriendshipmachine]

SkepticalEltos is skeptical...

You can preview it now if you try out wslg on a gpu that supports it. It will work with the same mechanism.

 

[Mcckoe]

I have full blown OS running on my iPad Pro, right now. No windows required, just streaming natively from my mac mini. If you need more from your iPad than iPadOS can offer, either buy a MacBook, or a Mac mini and share your desktop. People need to stop bitching about iPads so much, either use something else, or find a solution to use it how you’d like. There are simple solutions for almost all the “wishes” i hear about what an iPad should be able to do.

 

[thefriendshipmachine]

I have full blown OS running on my iPad Pro, right now. No windows required, just streaming natively from my mac mini. If you need more from your iPad than iPadOS can offer, either buy a MacBook, or a Mac mini and share your desktop. People need to stop bitching about iPads so much, either use something else, or find a solution to use it how you’d like. There are simple solutions for almost all the “wishes” i hear about what an iPad should be able to do.

Streaming another device from a perfectly capable but software crippled one is not a solution to me. The solution will be Apple losing their complacency and evolving iPadOS as they should. There is no practical reason besides their bottom line to cripple the iPad as they do, and Microsoft with W11 and the Surface just make that painfully obvious. Hopefully Apple eventually gives in and competes.

 

[loybond]

I have full blown OS running on my iPad Pro, right now. No windows required, just streaming natively from my mac mini. If you need more from your iPad than iPadOS can offer, either buy a MacBook, or a Mac mini and share your desktop. People need to stop bitching about iPads so much, either use something else, or find a solution to use it how you’d like. There are simple solutions for almost all the “wishes” i hear about what an iPad should be able to do.

What app do you use to do that?

 

[LogicalApex]

I have full blown OS running on my iPad Pro, right now. No windows required, just streaming natively from my mac mini. If you need more from your iPad than iPadOS can offer, either buy a MacBook, or a Mac mini and share your desktop. People need to stop bitching about iPads so much, either use something else, or find a solution to use it how you’d like. There are simple solutions for almost all the “wishes” i hear about what an iPad should be able to do.

Opinions like yours never make a lot of sense to me...

Why should people stop trying to expand the boundaries of technology??

When the iPhone launched Steve Jobs was against third party apps. People complained and pushed Apple to expand the envelope. I can't imagine the iPhone growing to where it has today without third party app support.

The industry as a whole is moving to more convergence between tablets and traditional computers. There is no way to slow that march as you see with Windows 11. Apple is holding back, but I'm not convinced they can hold back forever. Well they could, but they'd end up losing their position in the tablet market if they do outside of specific workflows that are stronger on iPadOS (like digital art).

No matter where the industry goes or where Apple goes. People asking for the boundaries to be pushed is a healthy and good reality.

 

[Artsketch]

Apple will have to retaliate now by opening up iOS even more over time. Make no mistake, the Surface + Windows 11 is currently a real iPad killer

It’s not. There are no game changer apps like Procreate, Vectornator, LumaFusion.

 

[11235813]

I use a Dell 2-in-1 device at work which is a Surface clone. It's a disaster. The user interface and the apps are not designed for touch. There are no gestures in apps like with iPad. You keep trying to stab the screen to push tiny buttons. I've said it before, it's a human rights violation. Apple has nothing to learn from this trainwreck.

 

[thefriendshipmachine]

I use a Dell 2-in-1 device at work which is a Surface clone. It's a disaster. The user interface and the apps are not designed for touch. There are no gestures in apps like with iPad. You keep trying to stab the screen to push tiny buttons. I've said it before, it's a human rights violation. Apple has nothing to learn from this trainwreck.

you’re not on windows 11.

 

[cupcakes2000]

You can have your M1 but can't even do basic things like easily sign PDFs or navigate the file system properly

I’m sorry, but how can you not navigate the file system properly? I mean - it’s missing a few things when compared to finder, that’s true, but it’s perfectly easy to navigate around. And in fact, to your first point, right from files you can extremely easily sign a pdf.