iPhone 15 USB-C Cables Without MFi Badge May Have Data Transfer and Charging Speed Limits

[jlc1978]

Indeed it is one cable to rule them all in EU, and it’s not even against the spirit of the law, it’s exactly what the law states.
A minimum standard that everyone supports.

While I agree, the law does not mean any USB cable will work with any device, given the USB-C spec allows for a variety of implementations. A cable does not even have to support charging and would not fall under the spec; or could not support PD but only a minimum standard and thus not provide high speed charging.

So we can use apple cables, Samsung cables, google cables, naked cables etc etc. they will all support USB PD as a minimum standard.

The law requires the device to support USB-PD, if they have higher charging levels, not the cable.

Some cables might support proprietary standards but in the end of the day USB PD will work as a minimum.

On the device but not necessarily the cable. The cable has to be made to support the charging schema. Will there be a whole bunch of non-compatible cables? I doubt it, at least at the low end.

My guess is the upshot will be phones in the EU sold without charger and cable, and users left to buy ones that support all the features as an add on purchase. That lets manufacturers comply with the law requiring enabling purchasing without a cable/charger while still charging the same or more for a phone; and get add on accessory sales.

This is a completely pointless rumor, especially when Apple already uses USB PD as a standard

While I agree, what some people think the law requires and what it actually does are two different things.

Yes yes. Because paying for an extended warranty (that in this case still requires you to further pay for repairs when needed?!) is somehow a great alternative to, you know, following a global industry standard for something as simple as a power cable.

My point was it does not have to be landfilled. And while I agree a standard would be a better choice, and allow Apple to simplify the supply chain, so I am at a loss why they chose to make it attached rather than removable. If they fail regularly I'm guessing a third party will come up with a replacement.

Then again, I've never had a power cable fail unless it gets unplugged a lot and idiots pull it out by the cable and not the plug. Even then, it's the replaceable plug end that failed.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Unlikely this rumor have any truth to it anyway. All apple iPhones use USB PD as the fast charging method or their fast charging power bricks.
View attachment 2166163
View attachment 2166164

Going with Power Delivery 3.0 is the EASY part. It's everything else about the type of connections that USB Type C supports that can be extremely confusing. Apple wants to clear up that confusion once and for all.

I think the certified Apple USB Type C cables for the iPhone 15 will support the Certified 20 Gbps standard maximum. Otherwise, Apple will limit it to Certified 5 Gbps standard.

 

[compwiz1202]

Wonderful idea ! USB-B shaped connector that is not USB-C, since it does not have regular USB-C compatibility.

I would almost laugh if the EU rules this does not count as USB-C support since you cannot use your existing USB-C charger and expect it to work unless it is "Apple certified".

Agree. This shows they don't give two craps about the environment.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

While I agree, the law does not mean any USB cable will work with any device, given the USB-C spec allows for a variety of implementations. A cable does not even have to support charging and would not fall under the spec; or could not support PD but only a minimum standard and thus not provide high speed charging.



The law requires the device to support USB-PD, if they have higher charging levels, not the cable.



On the device but not necessarily the cable. The cable has to be made to support the charging schema. Will there be a whole bunch of non-compatible cables? I doubt it, at least at the low end.

My guess is the upshot will be phones in the EU sold without charger and cable, and users left to buy ones that support all the features as an add on purchase. That lets manufacturers comply with the law requiring enabling purchasing without a cable/charger while still charging the same or more for a phone; and get add on accessory sales.



While I agree, what some people think the law requires and what it actually does are two different things.



My point was it does not have to be landfilled. And while I agree a standard would be a better choice, and allow Apple to simplify the supply chain, so I am at a loss why they chose to make it attached rather than removable. If they fail regularly I'm guessing a third party will come up with a replacement.

Then again, I've never had a power cable fail unless it gets unplugged a lot and idiots pull it out by the cable and not the plug. Even then, it's the replaceable plug end that failed.

I Think the law is quite clear cut

The law is quite literally 2 pages long

 

[BigMcGuire]

I Think the law is quite clear cut View attachment 2166645

Stop it. You'll make a lot of this outrage pointless. What a team player...

</sarcasm>

 

[jlc1978]

I Think the law is quite clear cut

The law is quite literally 2 pages long

Yes the annex is, and while it defines charging standards for the device, nothing in the law limits cable design; which was my original point.


Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging, shall:
(a) be equipped with the USB Type-C receptacle, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-3: Common components - USB Type-CTM Cable and Connector Specification’, which should remain accessible and operational at all times;

All this requires is a physical plug design, the USB spec allows for a variety of connections and customization of the pinouts.

(b) be capable, in the case of charging power lower than 60 watts, of being charged wi cables which comply with the standard EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-3: Common components - USB Type-CTM Cable and Connector Specification’.

Even more interesting, devices do not have to be capable of charging at the lowest specs and thus not be compatible with those cables, only if thy have a low charging mode. The rule for power labelling also provides for showing what the minimum charging power required by the device, which if all devices had to support <60W would be unnecessary.

Then we get to PD requirements:

Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging at voltages higher than 5 volts or currents higher than 3 amperes or powers higher than 15 watts, shall:

1. (a) incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-2: Common components - USB Power Delivery specification’;
2. (b) ensure that any additional charging protocol allows the full functionality of the USB Power Delivery referred to in point (a).

Which allows different charging protocols as well. So while there is a standard, it does not ensure every phone can use any cable to charge at any specific rate.

The rule has a lot of exceptions built in, beyond fully exempting wireless only charging from requiring a plug.

Of course, until Apple actually releases a USB C device will the angst about what they will or will not do is needless pearl clutching.

 

[TigerNike23]

we need to fine them a billion dollars per iphone and throw their executives in jail for their utter incompetence. time to play hardball.

I think Apple would rather leave the EU market.

 

[6787872]

I think Apple would rather leave the EU market.

let em, the board will toss timmy aside in a new york minute

 

[TigerNike23]

On a day when Xiaomi demo a prototype phone with 300W charging (they already do 210W charging), we get news that Apple may be planning on limiting charge and data speeds if you don't buy their approved cable. While it may not be true, the fact that it sounds the sort of thing that Apple would do says a lot about what we expect from Apple these days.

I would not use a phone from Xiaomi if you gave it to me for free.

 

[TigerNike23]

let em, the board will toss timmy aside in a new york minute

Other tech companies do well outside of China, why can’t they do fine outside the EU? Apple would still have the UK market.

NOTE: I’m not remotely advocating Apple leave. I’m playing Devil’s Advocate if as someone above mentioned, jailing the executives over this.

 

[TigerNike23]

You think Apple will leave a relatively rich market of almost 450 million people entirely to Google and Android manufacturers?

When has Apple ever given up on a market in light of regulation? They haven't in China.

Plus Europe's not alone in this. Are they going to pull out of every market?

They might go portless faster than they planned. Wireless charging only.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Yes the annex is, and while it defines charging standards for the device, nothing in the law limits cable design; which was my original point.


Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging, shall:
(a) be equipped with the USB Type-C receptacle, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-3: Common components - USB Type-CTM Cable and Connector Specification’, which should remain accessible and operational at all times;

All this requires is a physical plug design, the USB spec allows for a variety of connections and customization of the pinouts.

(b) be capable, in the case of charging power lower than 60 watts, of being charged wi cables which comply with the standard EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-3: Common components - USB Type-CTM Cable and Connector Specification’.

Even more interesting, devices do not have to be capable of charging at the lowest specs and thus not be compatible with those cables, only if thy have a low charging mode. The rule for power labelling also provides for showing what the minimum charging power required by the device, which if all devices had to support <60W would be unnecessary.

Well actually they do, it’s specified in the USB standard. Such as when you use a USB-c to usb-a outlet, they are limited by the specification. And to be in compliance USB PD includes a range it can operate in.

Then we get to PD requirements:

Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging at voltages higher than 5 volts or currents higher than 3 amperes or powers higher than 15 watts, shall:

1. (a) incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-2: Common components - USB Power Delivery specification’;
2. (b) ensure that any additional charging protocol allows the full functionality of the USB Power Delivery referred to in point (a).

Which allows different charging protocols as well. So while there is a standard, it does not ensure every phone can use any cable to charge at any specific rate.

The rule has a lot of exceptions built in, beyond fully exempting wireless only charging from requiring a plug.

Of course, until Apple actually releases a USB C device will the angst about what they will or will not do is needless pearl clutching.

Well as you pointed out.
This shall still be implemented by individual members states.

Such as in Sweden having a cable in the box is required, or as it was in France you had to include a charger in the box.

And apple have already released products that are completely compliant with this. The iPad Pro counts as radio equipment and have USB-c

 

[Sophisticatednut]

They might go portless faster than they planned. Wireless charging only.

That’s completely fine. Apple have already shared MagSafe charging standards with the market so we end up in the same spot of full compatibility anyway

 

[jlc1978]

Well actually they do, it’s specified in the USB standard.

I am not sure what your point is. The USB- C standard does not establish only 1 type of cable; it provides a common plug and lines that allow for a wide variety of incompatible cables that would still all meet the USB-C standard. The spec is even designed to allow proprietary implementations. In teh end, it's basically a plug and some pinouts taht manufacturers are free to implement as they see fit.

Such as when you use a USB-c to usb-a outlet, they are limited by the specification. And to be in compliance USB PD includes a range it can operate in.

Right, but manufacturers can also add in proprietary charging protocols and still meet the EU regulation. The standard even specifically allows it.

My point is simple: Those who claim the EU regulation will result in a common cable and charger that will end incompatibility and allow you to use one cable to cahrge any device are wrong. Some may only support low speed charging, others only data, have proprietary chips,e tc. and all still meet the regulatory requirements.

A manufacturer could even do wireless charging and a proprietary data port and not worry about the EU regulation; though I doubt any would do that.

Well as you pointed out.
This shall still be implemented by individual members states.

Such as in Sweden having a cable in the box is required, or as it was in France you had to include a charger in the box.

And apple have already released products that are completely compliant with this. The iPad Pro counts as radio equipment and have USB-c

I am not sure what your point is here; other than the EU's common market is fragmented as different states impose various unique requirements beyond the common framework.

As for Apple, I think it's clear USB-C, with or without MiFi, is the future.

 

[AppliedMicro]

I think the certified Apple USB Type C cables for the iPhone 15 will support the Certified 20 Gbps standard maximum.

I bet you that they won't.

What are you going to transfer over a 20Gbps connection from an iPhone anyway? It's internal memory likely doesn't even provide such read speeds (and why would it in a handheld portable device).

My point is simple: Those who claim the EU regulation will result in a common cable and charger that will end incompatibility and allow you to use one cable to cahrge any device are wrong. Some may only support low speed charging, others only data, have proprietary chips,e tc. and all still meet the regulatory requirements.

The EU regulation will result in common cables and chargers supporting a certain baseline charging spec.
And it won't be just 5W or 10W.

The keyword there is common cables - which doesn't mean every cable.
Or the same cable for every application.

Will every cable with a USB-C connector will support PD charging?
No, of course not. Some connect to USB ports that aren't even designed to provide such wattage.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Of all my Apple products sitting on my desk, all are being charged by 3rd party chargers and USB C cables (6-10ft 100w Anker USB C cables).

I would put $ down on the table that these same cables will charge the next iPhone (or 2024?) no problem ... because they charge my iPad, my MacBook, and other Apple devices no problem.

I wouldn't exactly be shocked though if Apple released a 30W USB-C Power Adapter Pro/Max/Ultra to charge new USB-C iPhones at that rate - and/or licensed such new charging protocol to third-party MFi vendors.

 

[Ta0jin]

Apple has been doing ish like this for ages, not really that shocking…

 

[jlc1978]

The EU regulation will result in common cables and chargers supporting a certain baseline charging spec.
And it won't be just 5W or 10W.

The keyword there is common cables - which doesn't mean every cable.
Or the same cable for every application.

Will every cable with a USB-C connector will support PD charging?
No, of course not. Some connect to USB ports that aren't even designed to provide such wattage.

Exactly. I used common as in one cable to rule all; which clearly will not be the case.

 

[maxoakland]

The idea that the spirit of the law is grounds for judicial action is problematic, because then regulations, rather than providing (usually) clear guidance on what must be done become whatever someone thinks they should be. It's up to the legislature to make clear rules, otherwise chaos ensues.

It’s not problematic at all. We *all* know why these laws were implemented. Apple is acting like a spoiled teen who follows the rules in a way that mocks the rules. That’s not OK

 

[mrochester]

It’s not problematic at all. We *all* know why these laws were implemented. Apple is acting like a spoiled teen who follows the rules in a way that mocks the rules. That’s not OK

As long as Apple follows the rules, it’s ok.

 

[jlc1978]

It’s not problematic at all. We *all* know why these laws were implemented. Apple is acting like a spoiled teen who follows the rules in a way that mocks the rules. That’s not OK

First of all, what Apple will do is conjecture at this point. Secondly, the rules specifically allow what the rumor says Apple *may* or *may not* do. Nothing in the rules requires Apple or any manufacturer to limit the device to the minimum in the rules, or that every device they make adheres to the rule.

As long as Apple follows the rules, it’s ok.

Exactly, and the rules are pretty flexible in how they can be implemented.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I bet you that they won't.

What are you going to transfer over a 20Gbps connection from an iPhone anyway? It's internal memory likely doesn't even provide such read speeds (and why would it in a handheld portable device).

I disagree. This isn't a computer with separate CPU and RAM locations. Because the A17 essentially integrates the RAM as part of the SoC itself, the RAM will likely be quite fast. That's why going to Certified 20 Gbps connection speed may not be so far-fetched.

 

[Radeon85]

So I guess Apple doesn't give a toss about the environment then because the waste created by this will be astronomical, this is extremely anti consumer as well and I hope governments come down hard on this crap. The point of USB C is it's compatible across all devices with NO restrictions.

 

[compwiz1202]

So I guess Apple doesn't give a toss about the environment then because the waste created by this will be astronomical, this is extremely anti consumer as well and I hope governments come down hard on this crap. The point of USB C is it's compatible across all devices with NO restrictions.

Yea like some mentioned, it's just SB-C then. I wonder if the new cables will come in plaid.

 

[BigMcGuire]

So I guess Apple doesn't give a toss about the environment then because the waste created by this will be astronomical, this is extremely anti consumer as well and I hope governments come down hard on this crap. The point of USB C is it's compatible across all devices with NO restrictions.

Isn't it Governments that are causing this change?! I thought the whole reason behind this change was because Europe demanded Apple switch to USB C. (Unless I missed some previous conversation).

I've mentioned USB C to several iPhone owners I know and they all got frustrated at how many lightning cables they'll have to throw away and replace. Me? I have tons of USB C cables all over so I'm looking forward to it.

Me? Students I know at universities are still on iPhones from many years ago so I'll be handing out all my stuff there when the 15 comes out (already donated dozens of cables/chargers - best place to recycle that stuff imo).