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iPhone 2.1 Beta 4 Seeded, Removes Push Notification Service

What to make of the push notification services being removed for this build of the 2.1 firmware I dont really know what to make of.

For the firmware naming convention 2.1 suggests that it WILL be more than bug fixes. A x.x.1 update is bug fixes, a x.1.x update is feature additions to the OS and a 1.x.x update is an new OS and I'm going to guess that will also mean new hardware as well for the future.

The 2.1 beta seeds have been coming at a more quick pace of recent I think, which suggests that the final version of 2.1 is getting closer (if you apply the same logic of OS X releases). If they keep up at this rate I would say that it will be ready for release at the September event, yes it hasn't been announced but there has been one for the past 3 years.

Last year the event was announced on the Tuesday 28th August for the event to take place on the 5th September so hopefully we will be hearing something about it soon. Hence that gives roughly another 3 weeks for this build of the firmware to mature. Its at beta 4 so they should manage to maybe push out another 2 maybe 3 by then??

Steve should really take the stage in September and just admit straight up that they have gotten things a bit wrong. If he can do that and then deliver a new much better firmware I think a lot of people will be much happier.
 
3G switch

Is it that hard to have all voice calls to go through EDGES and not have 3G on; Or at lease the capability to switch the 3G on and off without disconnecting the call?
I can imagine this would extent the battery life significantly.
 
lorkkrue said:
Is it that hard to have all voice calls to go through EDGES and not have 3G on; Or at lease the capability to switch the 3G on and off without disconnecting the call?
Click to expand...

How do you think this should work? You can't expect to have a continuous connection when you actually disconnect from the network you're connected with.

I'd suggest this: The iPhone should stay on EDGE and only enable UMTS when an Internet application (Safari, Mail, Maps ...) is opened. The downside would be: If you don't have e.g. Safari open and are on EDGE and you receive a call, you can't go online during the call - this is only possible with UMTS.
 
lorkkrue said:
Is it that hard to have all voice calls to go through EDGES and not have 3G on; Or at lease the capability to switch the 3G on and off without disconnecting the call?
I can imagine this would extent the battery life significantly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do agree that it would be nice to have calls ONLY go through EDGE and leave 3G open for data only(if the service is available). It seems like that would be one way to fix the whole 3G problem, especially in heavy populated areas where 3G service is demanding. I also think that it would help battery life.

On the whole switching from 3G to EDGE without disconnecting the call idea, I personally don't think that is possible. My reasoning behind this is because every time I switch from 3G to EDGE manually my service bars disappear and after a second or two come back.
 
Background apps

I agree. Apple points to Windows Mobile's atrocious battery life and blames it on background execution yet Blackberry's OS lets apps run in the background and blackberry has awesome battery life. On my Blackberry I can launch the browser and start the download of a large page then switch out and do some e-mail management then switch back. It's a great productivity enhancer.

The truth is it's hard to control power management with a bunch of apps running in the background and so it's just easier to say "no" vs. solving a difficult development problem.


neurobound said:
I don't know about this 'push' thing, but what bothers me about the whole 'app' situation...

It seems like Apple is free to write apps that tie very nicely in with the Iphone...

However, look at relatively simple apps like Pandora. Why can't it run in the background? Why can't there be exceptions? Apple claims that to do that would waste battery. So what? Let me make that choice. Apple wants to maintain too much control over the user experience at the expense of functionality here.

Be honest, wouldn't you love to be able to stream audio via AOL Radio or Pandora, while continuing to do other things... like browsing the web or writing an email? The hardware is fully capable of this, it's artificial limiations imposed by Apple preventing us from using it to their full extents.

Unfortunately there is no other device that touches the Iphone, so we're currently at Apples mercy here... However, I'm pretty certain THAT kind of functionaly is going to surface on another device and apple will then have no choice but to loosen its grip.
Click to expand...
 
The Battery

My dream when I first heard of this system was to be on messenger 24/7. (somehow it could make for a lot of sms)
But then iPhone 3g came out and the battery performances with push ON proved to be quite DISAPPOINTING.
So I'm not very excited about this system as I was time ago, it's pointless if battery drains out too quickly! :(
 
MacEyeDoc said:
A couple of questions for you:

1)How do you copy your backup?
2)Does your iPhone backup take more than 2 hours? (Mine has.)
3)How can you easily sync your iPhone without the backup function starting?

I have already disabled automatic syncing of my iPhone because 1) the backup takes WAY too long and 2) when I really needed it, it didn't work anyway (and I had not cancelled it).

Thanks for any helpful tips you have!
Click to expand...

The iPhone backup is stored in: <home>/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup/

There will be one folder in the above made up of a load of numbers, take a copy of that folder to another location - preferably one that is backed up by Time Machine (if you use it). If you need to restore to a backup just copy the folder back to the above and iTunes will pick up on it - pretty certain you can have multiple backups in there and it will see them all. I'm also guessing there will be a seperate folder for every device iTunes manages.

With the v1 firmware iTunes backs up the entire device (less any media) every single time, which is why it takes so long all the time. With the v2 firmware it only backs up the changed files, so while the first backup will take a long time after that it should be relatively quick. If I install some new apps it can take a long time but normally it is pretty quick.

There might be an option in there now to stop the automatic backup, I haven't looked in to this though. As long as I get a good backup every so often I'm happy with cancelling the backup if I need to as I know I've got a backup to go back to. The sync will complete even if you cancel the backup.
 
babyj said:
The iPhone backup is stored in: <home>/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup/

There will be one folder in the above made up of a load of numbers, take a copy of that folder to another location - preferably one that is backed up by Time Machine (if you use it). If you need to restore to a backup just copy the folder back to the above and iTunes will pick up on it - pretty certain you can have multiple backups in there and it will see them all. I'm also guessing there will be a seperate folder for every device iTunes manages.

With the v1 firmware iTunes backs up the entire device (less any media) every single time, which is why it takes so long all the time. With the v2 firmware it only backs up the changed files, so while the first backup will take a long time after that it should be relatively quick. If I install some new apps it can take a long time but normally it is pretty quick.

There might be an option in there now to stop the automatic backup, I haven't looked in to this though. As long as I get a good backup every so often I'm happy with cancelling the backup if I need to as I know I've got a backup to go back to. The sync will complete even if you cancel the backup.
Click to expand...

I see the Backup folders - thanks for the tips! I have been trying lots of apps, so that may explain why every backup seems to take forever.
 
Push is good and efficient

The push system Apple is working on is very smart. You will be able to have a hundred apps using push, with no more added impact on your battery at all than just having push mail.

The push mail works by having a persistent connection to the mail server. Every other app that does push is going to hang on this very same persistent connection. So there is no additional impact at all. Traditional systems maintain their own connections for every push, this would keep ypur radio busy, so would pull systems that always make connections to check for messages. The Apple system is easy on battery, and easy on data traffic.

The Apple system does have some limits, but they aren't bad. The thing that pushes a notification to your phone can not trigger your app and have it start running. All it can do is cause your phone to play a sound, or set one of those number badges you see on some app icons, or display an alert that gives a message and offers to open an app, like when a calendar notification or SMS comes in.

All in all it is a great solution for letting tons of apps do push without loading down the cell phone. I'm designing a game where you get beeped when your distant opponent makes a move and its your turn. This is cool, yet won't load down the phone at all. There will be lots of apps like this.
 
eyebye said:
I agree. Apple points to Windows Mobile's atrocious battery life and blames it on background execution yet Blackberry's OS lets apps run in the background and blackberry has awesome battery life. On my Blackberry I can launch the browser and start the download of a large page then switch out and do some e-mail management then switch back. It's a great productivity enhancer.
Click to expand...

To be fair a badly written background app *could* drain battery - although IMO that should be caught in the AppStore QA.

If an app spends its time asleep (eg. waiting for a connection to a specific port, waiting for a certain time period) then most of the time it's not running - it exists only as an entry in a list in the kernel, and I doubt you could measure the power difference, unless the OSX scheduler sucks *really* badly (which it doesn't seem to).

Where background apps cause issues is in memory.. the OSX on the iphone doesn't appear to have a swap file, so it leaves everything in memory all the time. You think Safari is unstable now wait until you see what happens when it has to compete for memory space with AIM...

The apple background thing is a reasonable idea but IMO it shouldn't rely on a central server - having every iphone in the world talking to a 'notification server' in cupertino is one massive single point of failure - and apple have shown that they're not that great at keeping servers up 24/7. I can imagine the flak they'd get if it went down and eg. Lotus Notes client was using it for mail notification.
 
santelia said:
Apple has the leadership to change customers mindset, and this one could be the right time to make people move from MMS to email.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because when you have 0.5% of the market, you can tell people how to do things.
 
I agree with this. I'd rather have push working correctly, and have current bugs fixed. If push needs to be delayed a bit to get it right, then maybe we'll be happier with the result.

Small White Car said:
My guess too. In other words, 2.1.1 will include Push and will come out when 2.1 was SUPPOSED to come out, but they want to move 2.1 up sooner to kill some of the bigger bugs.

Again, just a guess, but this likely means NOTHING has changed as far as Push is concerned. We're just getting some extra bug fixes early.

If this is true, it's great news. But who knows? I'm sure most people are going to assume the "push is delayed" idea as truth and just go with that. But the truth is, we have no idea.
Click to expand...
 
TonyHoyle said:
To be fair a badly written background app *could* drain battery - although IMO that should be caught in the AppStore QA.

If an app spends its time asleep (eg. waiting for a connection to a specific port, waiting for a certain time period) then most of the time it's not running - it exists only as an entry in a list in the kernel, and I doubt you could measure the power difference, unless the OSX scheduler sucks *really* badly (which it doesn't seem to).

Where background apps cause issues is in memory.. the OSX on the iphone doesn't appear to have a swap file, so it leaves everything in memory all the time. You think Safari is unstable now wait until you see what happens when it has to compete for memory space with AIM...

The apple background thing is a reasonable idea but IMO it shouldn't rely on a central server - having every iphone in the world talking to a 'notification server' in cupertino is one massive single point of failure - and apple have shown that they're not that great at keeping servers up 24/7. I can imagine the flak they'd get if it went down and eg. Lotus Notes client was using it for mail notification.
Click to expand...

Waiting on a port means the network is kept up and alive, which drains battery power. Most blackberry devices until recently are not 3G which also helps in battery life. Also the Blackberry push email is designed to conserve battery life, a lot better than Active Sync. I had a Moto Q which was 3G and had to charge it several times a day and all it did was get my email. There was no option, that I could find, to turn 3G off. My blackberry had great battery life, but then it really didn't do anything but get my email. I use my iPhone for phone calls, music, txting, internet, games, and other apps, and charging every 2 days or so, to me seems great. You need to look at what the device is being used for to compare to another device.
 
Fair points. I have a Pearl 8130, which is 3G CDMA and I use all the things you're using on your iPhone (calls, music, texting, internet, games, and a few apps). The battery drain from continuous surfing is a bit high but considering how small the phone+battery are I consider the battery life reasonable for this usage.

kakiser56 said:
Waiting on a port means the network is kept up and alive, which drains battery power. Most blackberry devices until recently are not 3G which also helps in battery life. Also the Blackberry push email is designed to conserve battery life, a lot better than Active Sync. I had a Moto Q which was 3G and had to charge it several times a day and all it did was get my email. There was no option, that I could find, to turn 3G off. My blackberry had great battery life, but then it really didn't do anything but get my email. I use my iPhone for phone calls, music, txting, internet, games, and other apps, and charging every 2 days or so, to me seems great. You need to look at what the device is being used for to compare to another device.
Click to expand...
 
kakiser56 said:
Waiting on a port means the network is kept up and alive, which drains battery power. Most blackberry devices until recently are not 3G which also helps in battery life.
Click to expand...

Well you have to get push data to the phone somehow.. that requires a data connection. Running push on the iphone keeps the network up 24/7 already - otherwise it couldn't work.. it needs a consistent IP address. It's passive.. which means you can probably reduce the power usage somewhat, but it'll never be a zero drain. The original point being background apps waiting on a port wouldn't add to that one bit.

I'm told that blackberry have some means of signalling their phones directly in the same manner that SMS works but can't find any details of it.. probably proprietary and closely guarded.

I still can't really tell the difference between 2g and 3g for battery on the iphone. Both are around a days battery, give or take. Wifi off adds a little more.. but you want Wifi or 3G on somewhere because the iphone is primarily an internet device (to me at least).
 
ThunderSkunk said:
Yeah, it's dead. Just like cars that run on gasoline are dead. Except, oh wait, what's that, a hundred million obsolete cars that are still running on gasoline.

It's not dead when everyone still uses it. As it stands, I know and/or work with several thousand people who all use MMS regularly, and about 6 iPhone users who are never in the loop. Oh, but we're so advanced.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

really now, you KNOW several 1000 people? i do not even KNOW 200 people; Possibly 100 total.

and not only do you KNOW 1000's of people, but you ALSO KNOW what cellphones they use? Really now?

Personally, I do not use MMS. On my previous phone (before my iPhone), MMS was not included in my SMS plan, it was extra. If i really feel the need to send a picture, I will email it.

(Not this though: if you want to send pictures but do not want to email, you can use the Palringo app)
 
jfanning said:
Yeah, because when you have 0.5% of the market, you can tell people how to do things.
Click to expand...

I dont think they are TELLING us to do things. We are all humans (most of us), and we all have the CHOICE to do/purchase something. No one is forcing us to all by iPhones (yet...) ;)
 
Lepton said:
The push system Apple is working on is very smart. You will be able to have a hundred apps using push, with no more added impact on your battery at all than just having push mail.

The push mail works by having a persistent connection to the mail server. Every other app that does push is going to hang on this very same persistent connection. So there is no additional impact at all. Traditional systems maintain their own connections for every push, this would keep ypur radio busy, so would pull systems that always make connections to check for messages. The Apple system is easy on battery, and easy on data traffic.

The Apple system does have some limits, but they aren't bad. The thing that pushes a notification to your phone can not trigger your app and have it start running. All it can do is cause your phone to play a sound, or set one of those number badges you see on some app icons, or display an alert that gives a message and offers to open an app, like when a calendar notification or SMS comes in.

All in all it is a great solution for letting tons of apps do push without loading down the cell phone. I'm designing a game where you get beeped when your distant opponent makes a move and its your turn. This is cool, yet won't load down the phone at all. There will be lots of apps like this.
Click to expand...

Just want to give a shout for Lepton's blog, where I found this:

http://www.myallo.com/blog/2008/08/fixing-a-frozen-zonked-or-dead-iphone-or-ipod-touch/

which just happens to be the best description of what to do with the dreaded "white apple of death" or other assorted iPhone crashes. This should be a page on Apple's web site. I can tell you that when I first called Apple tech support about my first "white apple of death" (waod?) they didn't explain anything as clearly as this fellow does. Thanks, Lepton.
 
indiekiduk said:
If you jailbreak you can change the default system font, and you might be able to change the default font size...maybe.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this information. I have done some research but so far it seems that jailbreaking (especially using the app [I think it's an app] that allows font changes) seems even more fraught with danger of crashes and so on than using the iPhone normally :).

I'd be concerned about paying out so much money and then ending up with a brick. My main interest in iPhone is for research and development purposes, so would also not want to do anything to upset Apple's dev tools -- though not yet sure if jailbreaking would cause problems there (not to mention it's probably against the EULA, if not worse).

It seems that the dust hasn't settled enough on the current system software or the development ecosystem for me to be able to make the changes I need in a way that can be used to benefit others as well as me. This is a shame, but what I expected given what I've read (mostly from this great and quite objective site and forum).

The best thing about your post is that it hints that the feature I am after may well be possible to implement even in the current software, if only a legit path to do so was exposed (or Apple implemented it). I hope that Apple get around to that soon, though it seems they have a lot else to worry about fixing first, for those of you that have already taken the plunge!

Thanks again for your reply; it is appreciated.


P.S. An observation: most GUI environments I've used apart from Mac OS (X) offer a desktop-wide font (and size) setting. It seems that, possibly due to something in the way that the Mac evolved as a platform, this never really came about and I have seen many desktop apps that offer a courtesy feature to not use fonts below a certain size. I can see why Apple may, given this position on the desktop or even just having separate app development teams, have overlooked providing a global font-size setting on the iPhone. I have tried to find appropriate avenues to suggest this feature to them, but not come up with much so far. Perhaps I should join the fora/mailing lists @apple.com, but I doubt that's a highly-effective path to the developers (perhaps the only one for outsiders, though)...
 
I rather see them delay it rather then release something that didn't work. I'm really starting to get fed up with this stuff.
 
Some of the suggestions to do with MMS being obsolete are downright ludicrous. Maybe this is the difference between the UK and the US market. In the UK I can safely say that many people I know use MMS on an almost daily basis, not everybody has email on their phone, and sometimes people just want to send a picture straight away. It's a lot simply than emailing because you can guarantee they get it as of that moment, rather than relying on them checking their email later.

But as I said, maybe in the US it isnt all that popular. Just like in the US, the majority use AIM, whereas in the UK, no-one does, its all MSN.
 
longofest said:
I suppose it's better to be careful than to end up with Mobile Me again, but on the flip side, they do need to make sure they meet their deadlines.
Click to expand...

I have to ask why you think making any random deadline is so important? The only people pleased with that sort of management mentality are other managers. Managers apparently lacking in experience and long term vision. It is unfortunate that we in America are having our lunch devoured by Asian economies that take a more mature view of business.

In any event would Apple have the mess it has on it's hands now if they would have simply said this stuff isn't ready? The simple fact is that more companies have failed with rushed products than those that have slipped a delivery date or dropped features. The fundamental reason that Apple was able to survive through many a tough time was a perception of quality. Good quality is not compatible with deadline management.

Dave
 
vandozza said:
or they devoting more resources to fix the (either perceived or real) worldwide 3G reception issues that have been getting a fair bit of press lately?
Click to expand...

That's what they should be working on, and there are far too many reports for it to be "not real." It's real. Whether or not only a hardware change can fix it, and all the reports of fixes in software are off the mark, is still to be seen. I can report I have zero bars on 3G with my iPhone while a MOT q9h, right now, sitting an inch from each other, has full bars.
 
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