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iPhone 3.0 to Get MMS, Tethering, and Finally... Copy and Paste?

DELLsFan said:
Laptop tethering (AT&T will most likely charge extra for the privilege, but I agree with stately ... I don't agree it's appropriate. After all, Unlimited data = Unlimited data. Period.
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The legal wiggle they seem to use these days, is a claim that "unlimited" means our internet access is unrestricted. Not the data amount. :rolleyes:

It's bad enough "unlimited data" conveniently doesn't include SMS messaging. One of the biggest scandals perpetrated by all cell carriers - not just AT&T - is consensus on gouging of their customers for SMS usage.
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Common misconception.

SMS is not data carried by the internet. It is basically a phone call over inter-carrier networks. How much do you pay per voice minute? 10 cents? Okay, so the minimum cost per SMS should be that much.

But an SMS is more complicated for the carrier, because it also has to store and forward messages later if the recipient isn't immediately available. This uses computing power, control bandwidth and storage resources.
 
kdarling said:
The legal wiggle they seem to use these days, is a claim that "unlimited" means our internet access is unrestricted. Not the data amount. :rolleyes:



Common misconception.

SMS is not data carried by the internet. It is basically a phone call over inter-carrier networks. How much do you pay per voice minute? 10 cents? Okay, so the minimum cost per SMS should be that much.

But an SMS is more complicated for the carrier, because it also has to store and forward messages later if the recipient isn't immediately available. This uses computing power, control bandwidth and storage resources.
Click to expand...

Yeah SMS .... You get milked with those costs.

I think all of us should read this.

. “Operating costs are relatively insensitive to volume,” he said. “It doesn’t cost the carrier much more to transmit a hundred million messages than a million.”
Click to expand...
 
lftrghtparadigm said:
I love the brilliant iPhone users who refer to the dock as "that bar with four icons", and who NEED to change the black background to a battery draining hi resolution color image of whatever hentai crap they feel necessary, and who need to share there moments (but sadly can't) without MMS....

....even though by sending a picture attached e-mail to the persons phone number @ carrier specific suffix, you do exactly that, but that's too much effort for someone busy whining.
Click to expand...

Slow down there, Mr. Wizard.....

It was rather comical that I forgot the "bar thing" is called a dock. I have several Mac laptops and a number of desktops and I do know what a dock is. For whatever reason, I don't associate docks with phones. Eh....it was early in the morning and I'll write it off to either that or a pre-senior moment.

Now that we have that out of the way, yeah...I'd love to have the *option* of placing a hi-res picture of my choosing as a desktop background even if it does drain my battery quicker. In all of my years I've never heard the word "hentai" used so I looked it up and for whatever its worth, I'm not into anime or porno so it is highly unlikely "henai crap" would end up as my desktop background. I *am* into surfing and I *do* enjoy photography (primarily beach scenes) so those are the kind of pictures one would find as my desktop wall. I might even throw a picture of my g/f on there. 'Nuff said. My point is that this is a small request which would allow allow iPhone users to customize their iPhone in some small measure. I actually find it rather ironic. Have you ever seen the original Macintosh commercial. Seems rather Orwellian to me considering that there are approximately 5 million iPhones out there and they all look almost identical. But maybe I digress.....

I do find it amusing when bright guys like you buy into the BS that MMS is absent because it is dated technology or the same task can be easily accomplished with email. MMS is absent for neither of those reasons. Maybe iit's time *you* hit Google. Oh yeah...I am well aware of how to send a picture by way of number+carrier specific suffix. I do it all the time. I also send pictures to my friends who have iPhones using my mail program. Easy enough but what is the solution for friends of mine who *don't* have iPhones and *don't* have cell phones with data packages and they want to send me a picture? Capesh? Once again, I really don't want someone shoving a way to do something down my throat. It's all about choice.

Last point.....

At the end of the day, I still choose my iPhone given the current crop of smartphones. That said, I'd rather throw a sledgehammer at a movie screen then sit with the mindless masses blindly accepting what's being drilled into me.

Rant over.....
 
Complicated or not, it no longer costs me (and many others who have left "Ma Bell" for VOIP-based telephony) 10 cents a minute. I no longer use the per-minute charges (the phone companies still gouge to those less fortunate) as a basis for comparison, because there is no comparing an unlimited plan with pay-to-play schemes. Just ask AOL about this.

Complicated or not, companies like AT&T will need to innovate (more than they do now) to retain customers. This means abandoning a 1970 model price structure and competing with VOIP-like providers if they intend to keep a profitable landline business.

It seems to me the cell companies with inter-carrier, bandwidth, and storage issues need to offset their expenses by competitive and profitable pricing models. They have all rejected this approach and instead prefer not to innovate, but rather to immolate their consumers with outrageous pricing schemes. Tech Crunch last summer stated it succinctly: "If 160 bytes of SMS data costs twenty cents then 1MB (1,048,576 bytes) of data would cost 131,072 cents, or $1,310.72."

These numbers put even the printer ink industry scam business to shame! We shouldn't tolerate either. I don't believe the cell companies have $1310.72 worth of overhead per equivalent megabyte consumed by their customers. Those that believe this to be true, I have real estate for sale, just for you. :cool:

The SMS pricing scheme is totally out of control, justified by nothing but greed, and needs to change for every carrier. Tethering may have it's own unique challenges and cost implications to carriers, but color me skeptical these costs warrant anywhere close to that extra $60 for which these plans sell.
 
MMS for iPhone...

I hope iPhone will indeed have MMS capabilities. It's absolutely absurd that I can't send MMS through a 3G network on the worlds "most advanced" and "most wanted" phone. This should've been available the minute the phone came out.
 
lftrghtparadigm said:
This is completely incorrect in every way describable. The receiver does nothing but receive the photo as they normally would. All the (iPhone) sender has to do is choose the correct e-mail for the particular contact (assuming you've added the necessary e-mail address as you would, being someone obsessed with need for MMS).

How it works outside the US isn't my concern. Japan has 3G that puts ours to shame, but I don't moan over how inadequate the iPhone is (here) because of it.
Click to expand...

You are kidding me, aren't you?

O.K., let me put it Muppets way:

Now let's talk about the receiver. You know, Kermit made this nice little piccy of his new favorite toy and he wants to share. So he sends it to two of his friends. One to Ralph via MMS and one to Fozzy via eMail.

>pling<
Oh, look. Ralph's phone just said, that he received a MMS. Now let's look at this pic.

Hmmm...Fozzy looks a little sad, doesn't he. Hey Fozzy, what's up?

*snob*
Ralph just received a pic of Kermit's new toy. I also want this picture :-(

Well, Fozzy, did you check your eMails?

*Fozzy grabs his phone - opens up eMail - waits about 30 seconds until eMail is syncronized*
Wohooo - I also received it. And look, Ralphie, my pic has the better quality!

-----------cut-------------

Maybe you get it now. MMS is on the receivers' phone instantly without any additional cost.

That's what I'm talking about. And don't get me going on about how to teach my mom to use eMail on her phone.
 
DELLsFan said:
Complicated or not, it no longer costs me (and many others who have left "Ma Bell" for VOIP-based telephony) 10 cents a minute.
Click to expand...

Sure, because you're using packet switched data, not circuit switched. Certainly VOIP over shared paths is the way of the future, but it's not here yet for cell phones. We have to wait for LTE to be used for voice.

Tech Crunch last summer[/URL] stated it succinctly: "If 160 bytes of SMS data costs twenty cents then 1MB (1,048,576 bytes) of data would cost 131,072 cents, or $1,310.72."
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Cute but meaningless. The opposite bogus example is VOIP over a per-KB data connection. Someone who says more during a call would get charged more.

One more time: SMS is sent over circuit switched connections, which cost by time, NOT per amount as in packet switched data connections.

SMS and voice connections are as if you had a road reserved all to yourself. The connection is not shared, thus you are charged full rate for it.

Data connections are different.. they're shared with everyone else, which is why the bandwidth depends on how many other data users are on the same cell site, and your charge is based on how much data you send or receive (how much of the connection bandwidth you use).
 
CSS Signatures would do me a treat! Like the idea of a 'springboard' app storage folder. Would love pages, keynote and numbers ported as it would help spread the application suite as well as let me get work done on the go (with a storage folder (stacks?))... Speaking of which a mini-displayport would be incredibly useful to output presentations to projects and second displays. Some image adjustments with a basic port of iPhoto.

Only a few requests short of making my MBP a mobile phone aswell!!
 
sleeptodream said:
Haha yeah! F*** the customer's wants and needs. Apple don't make products for customers!
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That's more correct than you think. Apple already has the money from last year's customer's purchases. New products are for next year's customers who will want something different.

Very few new car buyers have ever even ridden a horse. Have you?
 
kdarling said:
SMS is more complicated for the carrier, because it also has to store and forward messages later if the recipient isn't immediately available. This uses computing power, control bandwidth and storage resources.
Click to expand...

SMS is 160 characters = 160 bytes, so one megabyte holds +6500 messages! It was originally limited to 128 bytes and only later increased to 160) Originally it was meant to be a tool for cell technicians, but it got mainstream because somebody saw a business case.

SMS is delivered as a digital burst on an asynchronous subchannel. IOW, non-guaranteed bandwidth. It means that nobody guarantees how long it takes to get it delivered and therefore the cost for the delivery is minimal.
 
Apple knows what we want. They just don't want to give it to us partly because they want to release things slowly and partly because they like to piss off people for no reason. That's Apple for ya!
 
w0by said:
I hope iPhone will indeed have MMS capabilities. It's absolutely absurd that I can't send MMS through a 3G network on the worlds "most advanced" and "most wanted" phone. This should've been available the minute the phone came out.
Click to expand...

Not the world, the US at most. A lot of people already started looking at better alternatives, it might be too late for Apple already.

They should have reviewed the iPhone before announcement and ask themselves, 'What can we do better?' Apparently, if one application came out, it must be perfect. Like the good camera quality of the iPhone camera, but you can't be perfect on everything and some features like Video Recording is on the most basic phone with a camera. Video recording is CRITICAL. I would like to catch snippets of great moments, and not trying to shoot a 2 hour Hollywood film. Please Apple, if Cycorder could shoot video, you can make it happen with our current iPhones.

So why didn't Apple have tethering, MMS, video recording? Because they thought it wasn't perfect or came up with alternatives that did not work for most users.
 
lftrghtparadigm said:
...even though by sending a picture attached e-mail to the persons phone number @ carrier specific suffix, you do exactly that, but that's too much effort for someone busy whining.
Click to expand...

There's several problems with this.

1.) You have to know which carrier your contact is on.

2.) You have to know the "carrier specific suffix" for that particular carrier.

3.) Your contact gets an MMS from an email account they probably won't recognize.

4.) Your contact will either, a) have to create a new text message and get your number from address book/recent calls or, b) easily reply to your MMS message in which case your SMS conversation just shifted to your non-push email.

5) Your contact will have to remember always to send MMS messages to your email and not your phone number

There are so many problems with this system that depend not only you, but on the people you message that this is not a viable alternative to standard MMS messaging. I believe the only people that will think it is are those that do not send or receive MMS messages. Let me give you a personal example of how I run into each of these problems. Suppose I want to send an MMS to my friend Dan from work:

1) I don't know his carrier. In fact I only know the carrier of 3 people in my address book, and only that because they are on AT&T and calls are free - important because I talk to them a lot. So I guess I have to text message Dan and ask him his carrier. He'll probably ask me why I want to know when he answers, so I am prepared to explain that I want to send him an MMS but I have an iPhone.

2) He's on Verizon, OK. Now I hop over to Safari so I can look up the cryptic email address I have to send it to. Even for AT&T I'm pretty sure it's txt.att.net and mms.att.net for SMS and MMS, respectively, but I am not certain so I'd have to look that up too. Now, what phrase to search for? I type out "how to send text message from email verizon" and wow look at that, I've got it. Of course, I can't copy and paste so I'll just have to remember it's vtext.com. Great, it's .com not .net so I hope I don't get confused with the one carrier specific suffix that I do know.

3) I head over to my mail client to write a new email to dan'snumber@vtext.com ("or was that vtxt.com?" flashes through my head). Oh wait, my mistake, I can't attach a picture from the mail app, of course! I head over to the camera roll to find the picture I want to email. Oh boy, it's a good thing the iPhone multitasks - oh wait... I compose the email and am sure to include a line that says "Oh by the way, this is Eso" that way he isn't completely confused when he gets a random message from an email account.

4) My email is sent, but no reply yet from Dan. Has he sent a message to my email and it hasn't been pulled from the server yet? Is he busy right now and hasn't replied at all? I don't know! I go to check my email, but nothing yet. I don't really think email is appropriate for IM'ing, so I decide to send him a text message from my phone so he'll reply to the right one: "Hey Dan, I just send you a pic from my email but reply to this text."

5) Sweet, Dan just sent me a text back - "I sent you a multimedia message. You can view my message w/in the next 7 days via the web at www.viewmymessage.com/2 using MSG ID 348fjsuj28 Password crypticAShell". No problem, let me just copy and paste the info and switch to Safari. Oh wait...

No one ever remembers to send me MMS to my email, and when I remind them to, it's always followed by the inevitable, "What's your email again?".

swagi said:
O.K., let me put it Muppets way:

Now let's talk about the receiver. You know, Kermit made this nice little piccy of his new favorite toy and he wants to share. So he sends it to two of his friends. One to Ralph via MMS and one to Fozzy via eMail.

>pling<
Oh, look. Ralph's phone just said, that he received a MMS. Now let's look at this pic.

Hmmm...Fozzy looks a little sad, doesn't he. Hey Fozzy, what's up?

*snob*
Ralph just received a pic of Kermit's new toy. I also want this picture :-(

Well, Fozzy, did you check your eMails?

*Fozzy grabs his phone - opens up eMail - waits about 30 seconds until eMail is syncronized*
Wohooo - I also received it. And look, Ralphie, my pic has the better quality!
Click to expand...

Hey Fozzy, how did you know to expect a picture? Oh wait, you didn't. But hey look, 15 minutes later you have a new badge on your mail icon! I am sure the first thing you think is that it is probably an MMS from a friend as opposed to an automated bank statement, monthly newsletter, or some other type of email that makes up 95% of your inbox!

Seriously, get real.
 
MMS would be amazing. I really hope that this becomes true.

Cut and Paste would be nice as well, but for me it is not a necessity.
 
My biggest issues are copy-paste and MMS. I haven't ever felt the need for copy-paste (never had it on a phone) but I could certainly see me using it if it were present. On the MMS issue, it's quite embarrassing at this point. "iPhone - the world's most advanced phone - that can't send a picture message". Really Apple?
 
Theaser said:
So why didn't Apple have tethering, MMS, video recording? Because they thought it wasn't perfect or came up with alternatives that did not work for most users.
Click to expand...

Implementing video recording, tethering, and MMS are standard affairs, there's no million $$$ R&D that goes into this stuff. People aren't waiting for the next "MMS revolution" in the iPhone... We're waiting for a phone that can simply send/receive one. The same goes for tethering and video recording - it's been done before, no need to fix what isn't broke, especially in this case.
 
kdarling said:
Sure, because you're using packet switched data, not circuit switched. Certainly VOIP over shared paths is the way of the future, but it's not here yet for cell phones. We have to wait for LTE to be used for voice.

Cute but meaningless. The opposite bogus example is VOIP over a per-KB data connection. Someone who says more during a call would get charged more.

One more time: SMS is sent over circuit switched connections, which cost by time, NOT per amount as in packet switched data connections.

SMS and voice connections are as if you had a road reserved all to yourself. The connection is not shared, thus you are charged full rate for it.

Data connections are different.. they're shared with everyone else, which is why the bandwidth depends on how many other data users are on the same cell site, and your charge is based on how much data you send or receive (how much of the connection bandwidth you use).
Click to expand...

I believe you misunderstood the context with the telephony point I was making. You illustrated a 10 cent/minute voice charge premise that I respectfully reject. I don't pay 10 cents/minute for any personal telephony calls I make - whether it be circuit-switched or via data packets, landline, or cellular. While I appreciate your example, it was nevertheless moot.

I'll defer to your knowledge on how SMS actually works, but really - I don't care if the technology is voice-over-carrier-networks, data-packets-via-VOIP, some combination of the two, or tin can with string! I don't know what you meant by LTE, but it seems to me, Skype via Wi-Fi is right here, right now. Only licensing, agreements, and lawsuits prevent technology from maturing on our smart phones. True, not all phones have Wi-Fi, but I am talking about the iPhone here - not a Motorola Star-Tac. :eek:

My overriding concern is that consumers are being milked like cows on SMS charges by the cell carriers. Tech Crunch's article put these charges in a perspective I appreciate. Unchecked, the carriers will continue to get away with exorbitant package and per-use charges on SMS usage. They'll continue to charge high prices for cheap bandwidth wrapped in profitable, unlimited data package schemes, and they'll probably get away with adding another 20 or 30 dollars to any iPhone tether feature released too. That doesn't make it right.

You know, Nielsen Mobile reported that as of Q2 2008, more than 26 million mobile subscribers used a smart phone device. RIM accounted for 31.1% of this market share, HTC - 20.6%, Palm - 16.9% and Apple trailed in fourth place at 12.2%. That sure is a lot of smart phones and quite a bit of subscriber revenue there, isn't it? As this number grows, I hope the old-style, pay-to-play pricing schemes are exposed for what they really are and changed to meet the consumers' demands, not the carriers'. Isn't that worth more to all of us than what Copy/Paste and MMS will do for the iPhone? :apple:
 
NOBODY HAS MENTIONED THIS YET.... BUT DID YOU CONSIDER :

....follow me on this one....

1st: iPhone 3.0 features are being announced - right? (business-like features, mms, copy and paste <--- i know, this is more of a basic feature)

2nd: Rumors of "Pro" section for iphone apps - sounds right, right?
(very very likely)

3rd: AT&T exclusivity runs out fairly soon

4th: lead time for FCC registration to product availability approximately 6 months.... which leads to one thing to tie all this in (and answer the Palm Pre) - and that is :

iPhone "PRO"

... with slide out keyboard? (to "capture" all those other users out there)


..... anyone else think that is a realistic possibility ? I do?
 
alpinadvl said:
NOBODY HAS MENTIONED THIS YET.... BUT DID YOU CONSIDER :

....follow me on this one....

1st: iPhone 3.0 features are being announced - right? (business-like features, mms, copy and paste <--- i know, this is more of a basic feature)

2nd: Rumors of "Pro" section for iphone apps - sounds right, right?
(very very likely)

3rd: AT&T exclusivity runs out fairly soon

4th: lead time for FCC registration to product availability approximately 6 months.... which leads to one thing to tie all this in (and answer the Palm Pre) - and that is :

iPhone "PRO"

... with slide out keyboard? (to "capture" all those other users out there)


..... anyone else think that is a realistic possibility ? I do?
Click to expand...

Stop! Right now! Don't get my hopes up! I would sell myself on the streets to get an iPhone with iWork and a slide out keyboard.
 
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